Comparison of the Athletic Departments of Big 12 Candidates

[CL82]

Football, MBB, Baseball, WBB, Men's Soccer and Woman's Soccer

It's not close.

If Bobby D puts together a good season, it's hard to imagine us on the outside looking in.

 

[SAMCRO]

Football, MBB, Baseball, WBB, Men's Soccer and Woman's Soccer

It's not close.

If Bobby D puts together a good season, it's hard to imagine us on the outside looking in.

What is the one metric UConn doesn't rate well in compared to the other candidates.... whatever that metric is will be the most important metric to the B12 Presidents and AD's... And coincidentally that one metric, in the linked article, is football. With our luck the selections will be made before end of September and UConn will go on to have its best football season ever, win the AAC and NY6 bowl game.... Rule #1

 

[Marty Jackson]

Football, MBB, Baseball, WBB, Men's Soccer and Woman's Soccer

It's not close.

If Bobby D puts together a good season, it's hard to imagine us on the outside looking in.

I know we're all scouring the web for any morsel of new information, but seriously CL, do you think an article from the courant, originally published in July hasn't been posted at least 5 times in each of the 30 or so different Big12 threads.

On Fishys premium tweets, the same article has been posted twice, three hours apart. In consecutive posts.

 

[Stinger92860]

What is the one metric UConn doesn't rate well in compared to the other candidates.... whatever that metric is will be the most important metric to the B12 Presidents and AD's... And coincidentally that one metric, in the linked article, is football. With our luck the selections will be made before end of September and UConn will go on to have its best football season ever, win the AAC and NY6 bowl game.... Rule #1

With all due respect. Sick of rule 1.... F..k Off.
Not personal, just business.

 

[UConnNick]

Why does anybody at the Courant think soccer is relevant to the B12? They don't play soccer. It would be nice if some of these other sports we're good at mattered, but they don't. It's all and only about football.

 

[CL82]

I know we're all scouring the web for any morsel of new information, but seriously CL, do you think an article from the courant, originally published in July hasn't been posted at least 5 times in each of the 30 or so different Big12 threads.

On Fishys premium tweets, the same article has been posted twice, three hours apart. In consecutive posts.

My bad. I didn't notice it and hadn't seen it before.

 

[CL82]

What is the one metric UConn doesn't rate well in compared to the other candidates.... whatever that metric is will be the most important metric to the B12 Presidents and AD's... And coincidentally that one metric, in the linked article, is football. With our luck the selections will be made before end of September and UConn will go on to have its best football season ever, win the AAC and NY6 bowl game.... Rule #1

Why does anybody at the Courant think soccer is relevant to the B12? They don't play soccer. It would be nice if some of these other sports we're good at mattered, but they don't. It's all and only about football.

Being successful across a broad range of sports is an indicator of a successful athletic department, much more so than a single season's success in a single sport. I agree completely that football is a heavily weighted metric, but I suspect that the Presidents who will be making the decision, will be looking at more than that single metric.

 

[Marty Jackson]

My bad. I didn't notice it and hadn't seen it before.

No worries... Like I said, we're all nuts looking for that missing article or tweet pointing to the final announcement or decision.

 

[UConnNick]

Being successful across a broad range of sports is an indicator of a successful athletic department, much more so than a single season's success in a single sport. I agree completely that football is a heavily weighted metric, but I suspect that the Presidents who will be making the decision, will be looking at more than that single metric.

If metrics other than football carried any real weight, we'd have spent the last two seasons in the ACC instead of Louisville. The ACC had to overlook Louisville's community college academics and long history as a cesspool of recruiting abuses during the Denny Crum era, but the ACC presidents held their collective noses and voted them in. Now we're dealing with a conference that is run far more ineptly than the ACC and we're expecting that they're going to care any more about academics, soccer, field hockey or national champ trophies in our sports museum than the ACC did? The mere fact that we are seriously competing against schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF and USF should tell us all we need to know about this process. Among the present lot of serious B12 candidates, BYU should be our only really serious competitor. That's obviously not the case. We're also competing with almost every big Commuter U. school in America, and unfortunately for us, some of them have far better football programs than we do.

 

[CL82]

If metrics other than football carried any real weight, we'd have spent the last two seasons in the ACC instead of Louisville. The ACC had to overlook Louisville's community college academics and long history as a cesspool of recruiting abuses during the Denny Crum era, but the ACC presidents held their collective noses and voted them in. Now we're dealing with a conference that is run far more ineptly than the ACC and we're expecting that they're going to care any more about academics, soccer, field hockey or national champ trophies in our sports museum than the ACC did? The mere fact that we are seriously competing against schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF and USF should tell us all we need to know about this process. Among the present lot of serious B12 candidates, BYU should be our only really serious competitor. That's obviously not the case. We're also competing with almost every big Commuter U. school in America, and unfortunately for us, some of them have far better football programs than we do.

Don't think so Nick. If we've learned any thing in CR (aside from rule #1) it is that the weighting of the metrics change from conference to conference and from moment to moment. If it was all about football, Rutgers wouldn't be in the Big 10, and neither would Maryland, in all likelihood.

 

[UConnNick]

Don't think so Nick. If we've learned any thing in CR (aside from rule #1) it is that the weighting of the metrics change from conference to conference and from moment to moment. If it was all about football, Rutgers wouldn't be in the Big 10, and neither would Maryland, in all likelihood.

Rutgers and Maryland are only in the B10 because of the BTN. That's a whole different situation from the B12 because this isn't about putting your conference TV network on a zillion east coast cable TV systems. It appears quite clear that the B12 isn't getting its own TV network any time soon. You're talking apples and oranges here. The B12 is looking to maximize its value for future network price negotiations. They're looking for the best value additions they can make, and football alone drives that bus.

 

[CL82]

Rutgers and Maryland are only in the B10 because of the BTN. That's a whole different situation from the B12 because this isn't about putting your conference TV network on a zillion east coast cable TV systems. It appears quite clear that the B12 isn't getting its own TV network any time soon. You're talking apples and oranges here. The B12 is looking to maximize its value for future network price negotiations. They're looking for the best value additions they can make, and football alone drives that bus.

I think I'm missing your point. I thought you were talking about all CR since the example you used was 'Ville, who are also not in the Big 12.

We know that the Big 12 specifically paid consultants to do non-football and no-athletics studies of the candidates. I suppose it's possible that the may ignore them, but until they do, I am inclined to think that they intend to use that information in their decision making.

 

[UConnNick]

I think I'm missing your point. I thought you were talking about all CR since the example you used was 'Ville, who are also not in the Big 12.

We know that the Big 12 specifically paid consultants to do non-football and no-athletics studies of the candidates. I suppose it's possible that the may ignore them, but until they do, I am inclined to think that they intend to use that information in their decision making.

I'm sure the B12 didn't pay a significant sum of money to consultants for a totally non-athletics study of the various contestants. What would be the point?

 

[CL82]

I'm sure the B12 didn't pay a significant sum of money to consultants for a totally non-athletics study of the various contestants. What would be the point?

To learn about important metrics so they could make an informed decision?

Google it, if you are curious.

 

[atom58]

Rutgers and Maryland are only in the B10 because of the BTN. That's a whole different situation from the B12 because this isn't about putting your conference TV network on a zillion east coast cable TV systems. It appears quite clear that the B12 isn't getting its own TV network any time soon. You're talking apples and oranges here. The B12 is looking to maximize its value for future network price negotiations. They're looking for the best value additions they can make, and football alone drives that bus.

There were reasons other than the BTN. Both were AAU, both were on the East Coast where there is more population, and both were Penn State neighbors who had a history playing against them. (Penn State fans were not so happy in their valley in a midwest conference.) All of those were factors too.

The Big 12 does not have a network now b/c (1) Texas has the LHN which they got I understand when the Big 12 decided not to pursue a network and four of the schools that left were among the No votes, incredibly, and (2) you need up to 4 new states in populous areas (think midwest and east coast) for a network to work (and of course the LHN would have to be rolled into it). Most of the current teams are in the Great Plains (and WVa) where there are not so many people and TV sets. Some of the several UT posters here can tell you if (1) is really true but I have read it elsewhere several times. I guess you could say UT did not let an opportunity to earn more $$ go to waste.

 

[UConn990411]

If metrics other than football carried any real weight, we'd have spent the last two seasons in the ACC instead of Louisville. The ACC had to overlook Louisville's community college academics and long history as a cesspool of recruiting abuses during the Denny Crum era, but the ACC presidents held their collective noses and voted them in. Now we're dealing with a conference that is run far more ineptly than the ACC and we're expecting that they're going to care any more about academics, soccer, field hockey or national champ trophies in our sports museum than the ACC did? The mere fact that we are seriously competing against schools like Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF and USF should tell us all we need to know about this process. Among the present lot of serious B12 candidates, BYU should be our only really serious competitor. That's obviously not the case. We're also competing with almost every big Commuter U. school in America, and unfortunately for us, some of them have far better football programs than we do.

Love it when people are so definitive about things they don't know much about.

It wasn't all about football when the ACC added Syracuse and Pitt 5 years ago, and it wasn't even close to about football when the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland shortly after that.

 

[UConnNick]

Love it when people are so definitive about things they don't know much about.

It wasn't all about football when the ACC added Syracuse and Pitt 5 years ago, and it wasn't even close to about football when the B1G added Rutgers and Maryland shortly after that.

Apples and oranges again. No B12 Network means there's no comparison between what the B10 did when they took two east coast schools with huge media markets to bolster the money making machine that is the BTN. That's got nothing to do with the B12. They're looking for teams that add value, and that's all about football, not men's soccer titles, a sport they don't even play.

 

[UConn990411]

Apples and oranges again. No B12 Network means there's no comparison between what the B10 did when they took two east coast schools with huge media markets to bolster the money making machine that is the BTN. That's got nothing to do with the B12. They're looking for teams that add value, and that's all about football, not men's soccer titles, a sport they don't even play.

True, I forgot the ACC already had a network in place when they added Syracuse and Rutgers...

 

[sportsart]

If the Big 12 is not thinking ahead, in terms of TV/Twitter/Apple or some other kind of exposure when their current media deal is up, then they will disolve in what, 2024?

Who they bring on will tell you a lot about their future. Content has to be important at some point down the road.

I'm starting to think they don't expand and if they do, it has to be 4, due to the inclusion of Houston.

 

[UcfaninBk]

Im sure Texas would love to get the LHN into the northeast

 

[FDNY99]

Im sure Texas would love to get the LHN into the northeast

I'm assuming BK is Brooklyn...and if you have FIOS in Brooklyn you probably already have LHN. I know I get it as part of programming in Westchester County.

 

[UConnNick]

True, I forgot the ACC already had a network in place when they added Syracuse and Rutgers...

The ACC's motivation for taking Pitt and Syracuse was two fold and bears no relationship to the present proposed B12 expansion. The ACC was desperate to destroy the Big East, a competitor BCS level conference, and to solidify their conference from potential defectors. The marriage was also apparently blessed by the money folks at ESPN.

The B12 has no motivation to destroy the AAC by ripping it apart because it's absolutely no threat to them. You can't be threatened by the existence of any G5 conference if you're a P5, considering you're already making 10 times or more revenue per team than they are. And while at first blush it might seem that solidifying the B12 is the only motivating factor, that might be true among the schools not named
UT or Oklahoma, but the idea that the conference will automatically dissolve in eight years is way overblown. Where's UT going that they can take their beloved LHN with them? They also have no interest in joining another conference where they play second fiddle to other schools that control the league. Their only other choice is to go independent, but that presents a whole batch of other problems. They're likely going nowhere. As for OU, they likely have to take OK State with them wherever they go, for political reasons, so it's likely that the B12 stays in tact eight years from now, even if they do nothing now.

I get why UConn fans would like to believe this has to do with factors other than football because that's our weakest metric at present against at least a few of the other top candidates. Right now it's readily apparent that the B12 presidents are making a big show of pretending that academics matter by keeping Rice, Tulane and SMU in the mix, but is there anyone who seriously believes they will pick any of these three schools? They're window dressing.

Maybe the B12 presidents will surprise and look at football on a longer term basis than just the past couple of seasons. Maybe they'll look back to UConn being a competitive program in a BCS conference with a lot of potential given that opportunity again. But it's still about football, not men's soccer titles. The bottom line is whether there are 8 of 10 of them that will be able to see the upside potential UConn brings. It's definitely there, it just has to be recognized by enough of them to put us over the top, if they vote to expand.

 

[HuskyHawk]

We don't know what the Big 12 is looking at. It won't be the same as the B1G, which was different each time or the ACC, which was also different each time. We can only make educated guesses.

It won't be men's soccer since they don't play it. Then again, with 4 new schools, they might. Some members would embrace that. Football will matter but isn't everything. Basketball will matter, probably less than football to most schools. Academic prestige clearly matters. Boren has criticized the league footprint, expanding to new markets will probably matter. Overall preparedness to be a P5 seems to matter, based on comments we've seen. There are many other factors as well, which all go into the mix. Finally, each President likely weighs all these factors differently.

 

[UConn990411]

The ACC's motivation for taking Pitt and Syracuse was two fold and bears no relationship to the present proposed B12 expansion. The ACC was desperate to destroy the Big East, a competitor BCS level conference, and to solidify their conference from potential defectors. The marriage was also apparently blessed by the money folks at ESPN.

The B12 has no motivation to destroy the AAC by ripping it apart because it's absolutely no threat to them. You can't be threatened by the existence of any G5 conference if you're a P5, considering you're already making 10 times or more revenue per team than they are. And while at first blush it might seem that solidifying the B12 is the only motivating factor, that might be true among the schools not named
UT or Oklahoma, but the idea that the conference will automatically dissolve in eight years is way overblown. Where's UT going that they can take their beloved LHN with them? They also have no interest in joining another conference where they play second fiddle to other schools that control the league. Their only other choice is to go independent, but that presents a whole batch of other problems. They're likely going nowhere. As for OU, they likely have to take OK State with them wherever they go, for political reasons, so it's likely that the B12 stays in tact eight years from now, even if they do nothing now.

I get why UConn fans would like to believe this has to do with factors other than football because that's our weakest metric at present against at least a few of the other top candidates. Right now it's readily apparent that the B12 presidents are making a big show of pretending that academics matter by keeping Rice, Tulane and SMU in the mix, but is there anyone who seriously believes they will pick any of these three schools? They're window dressing.

Maybe the B12 presidents will surprise and look at football on a longer term basis than just the past couple of seasons. Maybe they'll look back to UConn being a competitive program in a BCS conference with a lot of potential given that opportunity again. But it's still about football, not men's soccer titles. The bottom line is whether there are 8 of 10 of them that will be able to see the upside potential UConn brings. It's definitely there, it just has to be recognized by enough of them to put us over the top, if they vote to expand.

I'm not one of the people who thinks soccer titles matter, and I understand the B12 has vastly different motivations than the ACC or B1G.

But a blanket statement of "it's only about football" hasn't been true about expansion since the ACC kickstarted everything in 2003. It's an (incorrect) oversimplification of a far more complex issue.

 

[UConnNick]

I'm not one of the people who thinks soccer titles matter, and I understand the B12 has vastly different motivations than the ACC or B1G.

But a blanket statement of "it's only about football" hasn't been true about expansion since the ACC kickstarted everything in 2003. It's an (incorrect) oversimplification of a far more complex issue.

 

[UConnNick]

I'm not one of the people who thinks soccer titles matter, and I understand the B12 has vastly different motivations than the ACC or B1G.

But a blanket statement of "it's only about football" hasn't been true about expansion since the ACC kickstarted everything in 2003. It's an (incorrect) oversimplification of a far more complex issue.

Expansion during the modern era after the university presidents took control of the NCAA began in 1991 when Arkansas went to the SEC, but you're right, it's not 100 percent about football, only 85-90 percent, which is the impact the sport has on AD budgets. Even Tranghese admitted it's 90 percent when he was once interviewed several years ago.

The original premise of this thread was that the B12 presidents will look at other sports. To the extent that those affect the remaining 10-15 percent of the money, I'm sure they will, but some of the surviving B12 candidates aren't even on anybody's radar in those other sports, yet they're technically still in the running and considered favorites by some. That's because they have comparatively good football programs.

 

[CL82]

The original premise of this thread was that the B12 presidents will look at other sports. To the extent that those affect the remaining 10-15 percent of the money, I'm sure they will, but some of the surviving B12 candidates aren't even on anybody's radar in those other sports, yet they're technically still in the running and considered favorites by some. That's because they have comparatively good football programs.

Mmm, not quite Nick. The original premise of this thread was that UConn's athletic department measures up favorably when compared the other Big 12 candidates. The athletic department is more than just football. But football (and distance, I guess) is the weak element in our resume. So if Coach Diaco puts together another decent season, it takes away the biggest objection to our candidacy.

 

[MattMang23]

So if Coach Diaco puts together another decent season, it takes away the biggest objection to our candidacy.

The sad thing is, I don't think it does. We had gone to a Fiesta Bowl only twenty two months before the ACC made their last expansion decision and the narrative was our program sucks. Then FHCPP and his right hand dummy, GDL made sure that narrative stuck.

Ironically, making a BCS bowl was about the worst thing that ever happened to UConn football. Not only did it spring the masses into thinking we don't travel, but it was the catalyst for the "Big East shouldn't have a BCS slot because an 8-4 UConn won the league, and they lost to Temple" argument. Ever since, we have been the school that didn't deserve to be there.

A big year from Diaco and the boys, and it will be "well they only did it in the AAC."

 

[Marty Jackson]

The sad thing is, I don't think it does. We had gone to a Fiesta Bowl only twenty two months before the ACC made their last expansion decision and the narrative was our program sucks. Then FHCPP and his right hand dummy, GDL made sure that narrative stuck.

Ironically, making a BCS bowl was about the worst thing that ever happened to UConn football. Not only did it spring the masses into thinking we don't travel, but it was the catalyst for the "Big East shouldn't have a BCS slot because an 8-4 UConn won the league, and they lost to Temple" argument. Ever since, we have been the school that didn't deserve to be there.

A big year from Diaco and the boys, and it will be "well they only did it in the AAC."

I think you nailed it. uconn's BCS appearance has become the 'poster child' for all things negative with the BCS and why the Big East wasn't BCS worthy...