Comparing 2014 Starting 5 to 2002 Starting 5...which one is better?

[bballnut90]

These two UCONN championship teams stick out to me because both teams were so reliant on their starting 5. Both teams have All-American caliber players at every position. Here's a breakdown of each starting 5:
2001-02:
Sue Bird-Consensus NPOY, 14.4 ppg, 5.9 assists, 2.5 steals, 50% FG, 47% 3pt, 2.5 A/TO
Diana Taurasi-2nd Team All American, 14.5 ppg, 5.3 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 50% FG, 44% 3pt, 2.5 A/TO
Swin Cash-2nd Team All American, 14.9 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 55% FG
Asjha Jones-3rd Team All American, 14.0 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 55.5% FG, 1.5 blocks
Tamika Williams-HM All-American, 10.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 70% FG (that's insane)

2013-14
Moriah Jefferson-projected HM AA-10.0 ppg, 5 apg, 2.9 A/TO, 2.6 steals, 57.7% FG, 40% 3pt
Bria Hartley-projected 2nd Team All-American, 16.4 ppg, 48% FG, 37% 3pt, 4.4 assists, 2.1 A/TO, 1.8 steals
KML-projected to not make a team, 12.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.9 A/TO, 46% FG, 42% 3pt, 95% FT
Breanna Stewart: projected POY, 19.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.8 blocks, 49.8% FG, 37% 3pt, 1.8 A/TO
Stefanie Dolson: projected 2nd Team AA, 12.4 ppg, 3.3 assists, 9.2 rebounds, 2.2 blocks, 56% FG, 1.3 A/TO

Honestly, I think 2013-14 is stronger than 2001-02.

Their A/To for the starting 5 is 589:302, or 1.95:1. 2001-02 is 638:374, or 1.7:1. The frontline of KML/Stewart/Dolson pass the ball so much better than Cash/Jones/Williams did. 2013-14 also has 4 true 3pt threats, plus Dolson can step out and hit a 3. 2001-02 only had Bird/Taurasi while the 3 posts didn't have 3pt range.

Defensively, 2013-14 is a much better blocking team, though you can argue that 2001-02 plays better team defense.

Overall I think these 2 starting 5s are very comparable, at least statistically. Both teams are led by a strong, pass first point guard who is a capable, efficient scorer. The off guard has point guard abilities and is also a strong scorer.

2013-14 front court is much more versatile than 2001-02, as Dolson/KML/Stewart are all strong passers, outside shooters and rebounders. Cash had a nice midrange game and Jones could hit a shot from 15 feet, but neither were exceptional passers. Williams was a great offensive rebounder and finisher around the rim but didn't have range outside the paint.

Matching up the players head to head, I'd conclude:
Bird>Jefferson
Taurasi=Hartley
KML<Cash (KML>Cash when healthy)
Stewart>Williams
Dolson>Jones

In the end...which starting 5 (at the time they played) do you think is better?

 

[doggydaddy]

These two UCONN championship teams stick out to me because both teams were so reliant on their starting 5. Both teams have All-American caliber players at every position. Here's a breakdown of each starting 5:
2001-02:
Sue Bird-Consensus NPOY, 14.4 ppg, 5.9 assists, 2.5 steals, 50% FG, 47% 3pt, 2.5 A/TO
Diana Taurasi-2nd Team All American, 14.5 ppg, 5.3 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 50% FG, 44% 3pt, 2.5 A/TO
Swin Cash-2nd Team All American, 14.9 ppg, 8.6 rpg, 55% FG
Asjha Jones-3rd Team All American, 14.0 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 55.5% FG, 1.5 blocks
Tamika Williams-HM All-American, 10.1 ppg, 6.9 rpg, 70% FG (that's insane)

2013-14
Moriah Jefferson-projected HM AA-10.0 ppg, 5 apg, 2.9 A/TO, 2.6 steals, 57.7% FG, 40% 3pt
Bria Hartley-projected 2nd Team All-American, 16.4 ppg, 48% FG, 37% 3pt, 4.4 assists, 2.1 A/TO, 1.8 steals
KML-projected to not make a team, 12.4 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.9 A/TO, 46% FG, 42% 3pt, 95% FT
Breanna Stewart: projected POY, 19.7 ppg, 8.1 rpg, 3.1 apg, 2.8 blocks, 49.8% FG, 37% 3pt, 1.8 A/TO
Stefanie Dolson: projected 2nd Team AA, 12.4 ppg, 3.3 assists, 9.2 rebounds, 2.2 blocks, 56% FG, 1.3 A/TO

Honestly, I think 2013-14 is stronger than 2001-02.

Their A/To for the starting 5 is 589:302, or 1.95:1. 2001-02 is 638:374, or 1.7:1. The frontline of KML/Stewart/Dolson pass the ball so much better than Cash/Jones/Williams did. 2013-14 also has 4 true 3pt threats, plus Dolson can step out and hit a 3. 2001-02 only had Bird/Taurasi while the 3 posts didn't have 3pt range.

Defensively, 2013-14 is a much better blocking team, though you can argue that 2001-02 plays better team defense.

Overall I think these 2 starting 5s are very comparable, at least statistically. Both teams are led by a strong, pass first point guard who is a capable, efficient scorer. The off guard has point guard abilities and is also a strong scorer.

2013-14 front court is much more versatile than 2001-02, as Dolson/KML/Stewart are all strong passers, outside shooters and rebounders. Cash had a nice midrange game and Jones could hit a shot from 15 feet, but neither were exceptional passers. Williams was a great offensive rebounder and finisher around the rim but didn't have range outside the paint.

Matching up the players head to head, I'd conclude:
Bird>Jefferson
Taurasi=Hartley
KML<Cash (KML>Cash when healthy)
Stewart>Williams
Dolson>Jones

In the end...which starting 5 (at the time they played) do you think is better?

I know you are a big women's basketball fan, but I am truly amazed that a Tennessee fan would post in such detail comparing two different UConn teams.

 

[easttexastrash]

IMO, no team from any university is/was as good as 2002.

 

[diggerfoot]

I think that's a fair analysis with one exception. Even as a freshman both Bird and Auriemma claimed Taurasi to be the best player on the team. Aside from her own contributions she made others play better (as did Bird). She might have been the best "potential" (as opposed to kinetic) player in college basketball even as a sophomore, but a variety of factors can get in the way of that being officially realized, the seniority and brilliance of your other teammates being one of them. Another way to look at this: both Taurasi and Hartley are players that would want to take the last shot, they are both players I would like to take the last shot, but I would like Taurasi even as a sophomore to be taking that shot a little bit more. So I think Taurasi > Hartley, but I mean that as no slight to the All-American Hartley.

 

[DavidK]

Taurasi=Hartley?

I mean I love Bria ever since she was a freshman who hit clutch threes down the stretch in Hartford to beat Baylor and keep the streak alive, but Diana was on another level, even during her sophomore year.

If there was a time machine and young Geno coached against todays Geno, I'm not sure who would win. It would cone down to who was hot and which team stayed out of foul trouble. Assuming KML is heathy i would give this years team a slight edge, because Stewie cant be guarded by 1 person, but i think its to close to call, both excellent teams.

 

[meyers7]

Matching up the players head to head, I'd conclude:
Bird>Jefferson
Taurasi=Hartley
KML<Cash (KML>Cash when healthy)
Stewart>Williams
Dolson>Jones

In the end...which starting 5 (at the time they played) do you think is better?

Definitely not so sure about that Taurasi=Hartley???

But if I had to place a bet in a head to head game.......I'd probably take 4 Seniors and Taurasi. As Bird said in one of those Geno Legacy shows, "we could have played blindfolded". There was never a doubt in their minds when they walked on the court that they would win.

But it would be a really fun game to watch.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Got to go with the 2002 team. Comparing the two teams if I had to choose which player(s) that I would want to take a shot to win the game, Taurasi and Bird would be my choices. I also think the 2002 team has more rebounding strength.

 

[Aluminny69]

If there was a time machine and young Geno coached against todays Geno, I'm not sure who would win. It would cone down to who was hot and which team stayed out of foul trouble. Assuming KML is heathy i would give this years team a slight edge, because Stewie cant be guarded by 1 person, but i think its to close to call, both excellent teams.

I have to believe that, if he had to, Geno could and would devise a plan to stop, or at least slow down, Stewart.

BTW, the 2002 Team were four Seniors and a Super Soph. So, at that given point in time, I give my nod to the 2002 Team. I can't believe we will ever see a team where four players are drafted in the top six of the WNBA. That speaks for itself. I'm not even sure that Dolson and Hartley will be drafted in the top six, although it's a possibility.


Also, as Geno has pointed out, the 2002 had more of a killer instinct, they really wanted to beat you, and not let up.

 

[Fiftyish]

Thanks for the effort you put in on this. Great way to kill time until the tournament starts.
Taurasi=Hartley Not even close IMO. DT did it all and was uber confidant. Of course, this is not a slam on Bria. I'm glad we have her for the upcoming tournament.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I think that's a fair analysis with one exception. Even as a freshman both Bird and Auriemma claimed Taurasi to be the best player on the team. Aside from her own contributions she made others play better (as did Bird). She might have been the best "potential" (as opposed to kinetic) player in college basketball even as a sophomore, but a variety of factors can get in the way of that being officially realized, the seniority and brilliance of your other teammates being one of them. Another way to look at this: both Taurasi and Hartley are players that would want to take the last shot, they are both players I would like to take the last shot, but I would like Taurasi even as a sophomore to be taking that shot a little bit more. So I think Taurasi > Hartley, but I mean that as no slight to the All-American Hartley.

I absolutely don't think Taurasi was the best player on the team in her freshman year and I'm highly skeptical she was the best player on the team in her sophomore year. I do, however, think that as a sophomore she was a slightly better player than Bria Hartley is as a senior but only very slightly! That isn't meant to be a slight to Hartley who I think is having a marvelous season. I feel that the front court on this team is better than was the 2002 front court but that the 2002 backcourt was better. I'm really finding it hard to determine which team would actually be the better. We're talking about two awesome teams that would rival just about any team in the history of women's basketball.

 

[Vowelguy]

2002 without question
Hartley is not = Taurasi and Dolson is not > Jones

Stewart is the only advantage 14 would have Tamika would have the quickness and strength to defend her better than pretty much anyone ever has

 

[diggerfoot]

I absolutely don't think Taurasi was the best player on the team in her freshman year and I'm highly skeptical she was the best player on the team in her sophomore year. I do, however, think that as a sophomore she was a slightly better player than Bria Hartley is as a senior but only very slightly! That isn't meant to be a slight to Hartley who I think is having a marvelous season. I feel that the front court on this team is better than was the 2002 front court but that the 2002 backcourt was better. I'm really finding it hard to determine which team would actually be the better. We're talking about two awesome teams that would rival just about any team in the history of women's basketball.

I'm relaying what Bird and Auriemma have been quoted as saying, not necessarily my opinion. No doubt they were talking about capability rather than performance, and while Auriemma has been known to overstate something, I don't think that's true of Bird. Keep in mind that after an injury Taurasi started as a freshmen and from the point of her starting often was the star, including getting the MOP of the regional that year. As for her sophomore year, same thing for me in that I'm alluding to capability rather than actual performance on a team full of star-studded seniors. Yet even so, the most crucial play in the championship game her sophomore year was designed for Taurasi to go one-on-one, not for any of the seniors to benefit from double screens, etc.

I'm with you in that 2002 v. 2014 is too close for me to call at this point.

 

[HoopsFan21]

I have to believe that, if he had to, Geno could and would devise a plan to stop, or at least slow down, Stewart.

BTW, the 2002 Team were four Seniors and a Super Soph. So, at that given point in time, I give my nod to the 2002 Team. I can't believe we will ever see a team where four players are drafted in the top six of the WNBA. That speaks for itself. I'm not even sure that Dolson and Hartley will be drafted in the top six, although it's a possibility.


Also, as Geno has pointed out, the 2002 had more of a killer instinct, they really wanted to beat you, and not let up.

What was it Geno said on his show a couple weeks ago? Something along the lines of he wishes kids today were like they were back then (I assume he was referring to those early 2000s and the Maya years) with respect to that killer instinct? He says the last few years the team gets up enough to put the game out of reach at halftime and then is more concerned about where they're going to eat than the second half whereas teams in the past were upset if they didn't continue to extend the lead right to the end of the game. Have to agree with Geno on that. How many times have we seen it take the team until later in the first half to put the game away because they came out kind of sluggish or disinterested? During the Maya years it seemed like the games were over by the first media time out and there was no letting off the gas because her intensity forced the rest of the team to keep up.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Seems like this a repeat of a thread on the BY maybe two months ago. You know everybody is bored when they want to rehash the unknowables. Comparisons of any even semi-meaningful type can't be made till the 2014 tournament is finished.

As noted earlier though, the 2002 Huskies for all their talent were only up by 6 over a decent OK team in the NC game with around 1:30 left when DT drew the foul on Dales to complete a 3 point play. All of the undefeated teams were good and took care of all threats in every game, but each could be tested.

 

[bballnut90]

If I had to pick one between Hartley/Taurasi, it'd be a no brainer to choose Taurasi, but I'm arguing that Hartley's performance this season is similar to Diana's in 2002. If you look at their talent level and how capable they are, Taurasi clearly has the edge but if you look at how she performed vs. how Hartley has performed this year, they're pretty comparable.

Just like how you can argue that while Dolson has had a more productive year than Jones did in 2002, Jones had more potential to excel in the W compared to Stef.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Seems like this a repeat of a thread on the BY maybe two months ago. You know everybody is bored when they want to rehash the unknowables. Comparisons of any even semi-meaningful type can't be made till the 2014 tournament is finished.

As noted earlier though, the 2002 Huskies for all their talent were only up by 6 over a decent OK team in the NC game with a around 1:30 left when DT drew the foul on Dales to complete a 3 point play. All of the undefeated teams were good and took care of all threats in every game, but each could be tested.

I think that game emphasizes just how good and how unbeatable that 2002 team was. UConn's backcourt, while not awful, hardly turned in a top caliber performance in the national championship game. Yes, the lead was only 6 at 1:30, but the game was never that close, was never in doubt. UConn played their second worst game of the season and still won the national championship. Great teams can get away with that.

 

[rocky rococo]

That's an interesting question. I think player by player, this year's team is stronger. I think the fact that the four seniors had played together so long without major interruption since their freshman year gave them a chemistry no UConn team since has matched.

 

[Sakibomb25]

My vote goes for the 2002 team. An elite team always starts with the point guard and Sue Bird was one of the best to ever play in college basketball. Jefferson may get there, but she's not there yet. Taurasi is a once-in-a-lifetime player and she just knew how to score at will. Not a knock on Hartley, but Taurasi wins hands down in that match-up. When your backcourt is Bird and Taurasi, that's already a great start. To be honest, there aren't that many teams out there who would be able to beat the 2002 because of the great backcourt.

Stewart and KML are exceptional players, but they aren't enough to beat the 2002 team.

 

[VAUConnFan]

Nice Thread
1. A lot of surprising opinions. I admire/respect the OP for putting forth the opinions of Taurasi=Hartley and KML(when healthy)>Cash. Asjha Jones had underappreciated talents. As Tom Landry once commented about a rookie linebacker who parked in his designated parking spot during a heavy rainstorm,"I admire a man with courage."
2. Room for many arguments
3. We will never know, but it is hard to bet against any team with Diana Taurasi and Sue Bird in its backcourt.
4. I am on record as saying Ms Taurasi was the best player on that 2002 team and that Swin Cash was, possibly, the second best player during a season in which Sue Bird claimed the majority of POY accolades.
5. I am also on record as being partial to the 2009-2010 team because of their overwhelmingly tougher strength of schedule.

 

[BJLfromBK]

Talentwise, possibly. But no team played with as much ferocity as that 02 team. They were the killers that Geno wants to see in this year's team

 

[diggerfoot]

I see people throwing a bone to 2010 in this discussion. I'd like to throw a bone to 1995. I'd argue that no team, including 2002, had more of a killer instinct than 1995 with Rizzotti and Elliott. They also beat the highest caliber opponent any had to face in Tennessee, who people were talking about as one of the greatest ever before the season started. People get hung up on athletes then v. now, but evolution doesn't work that way. Differences then v. now can be attributed to diet, training, supplements, equipment, etc., but not because the human body evolved in ten plus years. If then v. now underwent the same diet, equipment, etc. applicable to each period you should get similar athletes. Having acknowledged that, the 1995 team had not two (2002, 2010, 2014?) but three eventual POYs, and none of them was named Sales. Three POYs on a team with the best killer instinct historically.

 

[alexrgct]

Here's my thinking: the 2002 starting five featured four of the top six WNBA draft picks plus Diana, who was a WBCA AA (as will be Bria this season). Now, the 2014 team has a starting five who might eventually be high first-rounders. However, if they all entered the draft today. I think Stewie is the #1 pick, and Stef and Bria have a chance, but that's it. All told, four top-six picks and a WBCA AA is tough to beat. Additionally, the Sue-D backcourt is a big advantage to 2002, and the frontcourt, even given the size of 2014, wouldn't be much of an edge for 2014 if at all. It would be interesting to have Kiah in there though- three 6'2" players against 6'3", 6'4" and 6'5". So based on my thoughts, I'm going with 2002.

 

[DobbsRover2]

An issue for the TASS+DT group of the 2001 tourney and the 2002 years that formed a very close-knit group was that an important piece for them was the 3-point shooting, which centered largely on Sue and DT, as Ashja, Swin, and Tamika very rarely shot the 3 ball. Usually Sue and DT did well, but when the lid was on from long range, the team struggled at least a little. The 6-30 performance in 2001 with the two starters combining for 4-22 (and Schuie also missed 1) doomed the Huskies against ND. There was a complete goose egg at 0-9 in the 2002 NC, but the team stayed tough and won fairly comfortably in the end though the score was closer than expected. For the two end games in the two years, DT and Sue combined to go 4-31 on 3s, with DT at 0-17.

3-point shooting is notoriously fickle, and when we focus on the greatness of the 2001-02 team, we need to remember that not all the parts were always working to expectation. The tribute to them was that they could still win the big ones when the 3-pt chippies wouldn't go down.

 

[JoePgh]

If Asjha Jones and Stef Dolson went up for a rebound, Asjha would come down with it. If Stewie and Tamika Williams went up for a rebound, Tamika would come down with it and Stewie would be horizontal, looking in vain at the referee for a foul call.

If Asjha decided take a 15-foot fadeaway jump shot, Stef couldn't block it. Asjha probably couldn't get up high enough to block Stef's shot either, but a higher percentage of Asjha's shots would go in.

Swin could get any shot she wanted against KML's defense, and might well get KML in foul trouble. She would prevent KML from getting open looks for 3 without a lot of help from screeners.

I think Stewart and Taurasi are comparable in offensive talent. If either one had a big game and the other didn't, her team would win. I think Diana would be slightly more likely to do that.

The most interesting question is "Geno then" vs. "Geno now". I think Geno now is a much better coach, for two reasons:

1. at the technical level, he and CD have mastered the speed / transition game, probably by studying NBA and men's college film quite a bit. The 2002 team didn't have two fast guards, but beyond that, their transition game wasn't as systematic or as multi-faceted as what the 2014 team does. (Ask Vivian Stringer.)
2. at the human level, Geno is becoming more seasoned -- less like Bobby Knight and more like John Wooden. I think that produces better, more consistent results.

So the game could go either way, but I would favor the 2002 team to win by about 6 points.

 

[UcMiami]

Interesting discussion and I know we have some statements from Geno on various things ... but, I think he also wears rose colored glasses when he looks back in history. Not sure what kind of killer instinct was involved in that Virgina nightmare (9 pt MOV) in 2002 or the 18 point win against unranked PSU in the sweet sixteen and the 14 point win against #23 ODU or a 20 point win against unranked UNC. I guess the answer must be that they weren't good enough to dominate those games and needed to really work and show that killer instinct in order to finally pull out a comfortable margin. If this years team didn't beat #3 Louisville by 17, 20, and 20 but ONLY won by say 14 people would have panicked. (enough of a rant?!)
As for the question - 2002 front court was great but they were undersized and had very limited range. I think the only thing they have over this year's front court is age and health - the three combined are not the offensive threat that Stewie presents to defenses and when healthy KML presents and none of them had the defensive intimidation factor that Stewart and Dolson present.
2002 back court is another story - Sue and DT as a team were incomparable to any other college back court even with DT being a sophomore. Statistically the current year may be similar but ... I actually would compare Sue to Bria as the two seniors and I think they are pretty close - Sue a better playmaker and Bria a better scorer but both with serious leadership chops. Bria maybe a better defender. That leave the two sophomores and while I love Moriah and think she has the potential to be very special (and is already have a great year) DT was already a great player.
So two really good starting fives with one having a stand out guard and the other a stand out forward. But with Stewart, Dolson and KML being better than their counterparts vs Sue and DT being better than Bria and Moriah I give the nod to 2014 on talent. On experience ... slight edge to 2002 but 2014 starters already have one NC - 2002 only 4 of the 5 could claim that. Maybe the killer instinct Geno talked about was really just hunger for what they hadn't won the previous year.