Coaching, superstar

[Bayareahusky]

Geno's 10 NCs all included Lobo, Bird, Taurasi, Moore, and Stewart. Pat's eight all included Gordon, Charles, Holdsclaw, and Parker. Obviously, all 18 combined were led by a great coach.

Even though I believe strongly in the strength of the HC position in WCBB, this fact that you cite here I am acutely aware of!

Geno and Pat in their title runs NEVER had the cupboard bare......

I would propose that when team won without big star(s) .... e.g. UNC 1994, A&M 2012, it had at least as much to do with weakness of the competition.

 

[triaddukefan]

Even though I believe strongly in the strength of the HC position in WCBB, this fact that you cite here I am acutely aware of!

Geno and Pat in their title runs NEVER had the cupboard bare.

I would propose that when team won without big star(s) .... e.g. UNC 1994, A&M 2012, it had at least as much to do with weakness of the competition.

Are you saying that Danielle Adams wasnt a big star ?

 

[j66kicker]

The interesting one to me is 2000 - a great team, but the TASSK force were only sophomores and Sveta and Shea were juniors. I know Bird won the Lieberman but she was not the same player she later became. Of all the championships I think 2000 stands out as the least 'superstar' driven.

IMHO Lieberman winners qualify as superstars, and Sue qualified as a superstar. I remember Sveta and Shea being "big" stars too.

 

[triaddukefan]

So where is the delineation between superstar.... big star...... star... and just really good player ?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Was Sophia,Ruth and Adams considered Super-Stars?

Yes - in the sense that, at least for that season, they were dominant, go-to players in their team's scheme.

I wouldn't say that you need an "all-time" great, just a super-star for the time, and that's the way I took the post. If you were to nit-pick "super-stardom" you would also eliminate Md, Purdue and maybe some others. But to take Purdue, they had White and Figgs, which was enough.

Interestingly, I think you would further find that there needs be a decent supporting cast, i.e. for most teams the superstar can't do it on their own. Even Stiles, that I referred to earlier, had a 3 point shooting guard that was really what beat Rutgers in the tourney against Missouri State. Stiles didn't "go off", but the other player did.

 

[j66kicker]

So where is the delineation between superstar.... big star. star... and just really good player ?

su·per·star
ˈso͞opərˌstär/
noun

1. a high-profile and extremely successful performer or athlete.

So no help. IMO Mickey Mantle was a 'superstar' and Bernie Williams was a 'star'. Derek Jeter was at least a 'big' star. Prince Fielder (275 lbs.) and CC Sabathia (300+ lbs.) were also a 'big' stars in their primes

 

[BroadwayVa]

Although it can be - both ways, for and against - I think getting the calls often goes to the perceived better player(s). To the extent that UConn (in general) "gets" or is perceived as getting certain calls, well, it is partly a reputation for not fouling combined with highly thought of skill players that the ref is going to expect to be able to make "that move" without walking, even if they actually did that one time. Conversely, some refs (and no where near the number that some fans claimed) would over penalize Rutgers because they would perceive that Rutgers was physical and playing on the edge. For example, refs like DeMayo, Kantner, etc. did not fall in that trap, but good old Titus, some much lesser known guys, and Wesley Dean all tended to "over-compensate", based on an attempt at an honest analysis.

Perception-Reality!! Fans usually think the other guys are getting all the calls. Go back 10 years ago and Geno spoke often and loudly that there was a bias against his team by refs, especially when the "bright lights are on". I believe that for the past 20 or so years people have spoken of the "preferential" treatment Star players got from the refs. I even perceived that DT got more favorable calls--but ask any Ref/change that to ask most Refs and they shall all say "we call all games without bias"--I've asked them.

 

[BroadwayVa]

su·per·starSom
ˈso͞opərˌstär/
noun

1. a high-profile and extremely successful performer or athlete.

So no help. IMO Mickey Mantle was a 'superstar' and Bernie Williams was a 'star'. Derek Jeter was at least a 'big' star. Prince Fielder (275 lbs.) and CC Sabathia (300+ lbs.) were also a 'big' stars in their primes

Sometimes the SUPER stars are on your team and a star maybe on ND and good players are on Tenn---If you are Tenn Fan: Super star on Tenn, Star on ND and sometimes luck player on Uconn. Duke found out that Superstar came in the form of DT on their court.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Broadway: I think you and Knight are talking about two different people. The Jim Foster with the Philly/Geno connection coached WBB at St. Joseph's, Vanderbilt, Ohio State, and now UT-Chattanooga.

Thank you Gus for the correction. I can always count on you to keep me straight --with tact. Thanks.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Totally agree. Rare when a team without a bona fide 1st team AA (top 5, not top 10) wins the NC (props to Blair & TA&M). If you look at UCONN's 'lean' years, we had no 1st team AAs.

But why do you think the 'horses' come here? It's not like we have some unfair advantage due to all the 'free' talent that comes here for some random reason. Doesn't great coaching attract great talent?

Kids today, usually (I really think always) , come to Uconn to be coached by the best and to win National Championships.

But there was a time about 1995 when a kid from just over the line in Mass chose Uconn. A good young coach was there but no super star coach and the kid wasn't a super star. But these two won a National championship then both were acclaimed as SUPER STARS.

You are so correct that in the "lean years" Uconn lacked a true "go to player"/star. A bunch of good kids, decent players, hard workers--but they lacked a super star of Maya's or Dt's or Stewie's talents. Yet really outstanding teams have the star and others who are stars in their own right because without a decent "supporting cast" (DT had it even when many thought other wise) one player can't do it all and Stewie has probably the greatest supporting stars of any former UConn Superstar.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Yes - in the sense that, at least for that season, they were dominant, go-to players in their team's scheme.

I wouldn't say that you need an "all-time" great, just a super-star for the time, and that's the way I took the post. If you were to nit-pick "super-stardom" you would also eliminate Md, Purdue and maybe some others. But to take Purdue, they had White and Figgs, which was enough.

Interestingly, I think you would further find that there needs be a decent supporting cast, i.e. for most teams the superstar can't do it on their own. Even Stiles, that I referred to earlier, had a 3 point shooting guard that was really what beat Rutgers in the tourney against Missouri State. Stiles didn't "go off", but the other player did.

I really didn't steal your thunder---but great minds as they say-- I wrote of the need for a good to great supporting cast along with a super star.
Nits will pick. Super stardom/stardom/ good player are typically in the minds of the beholder fans--to properly define that term you'd need a psychologist to analyse it.
Geno has said in the past --that he liked playing against superstar teams because usually you only had to shut down one person. His record will show that. That's what made RU a hard team to beat, the most always had 3 stars to beat you with.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I don't think any team can win the NCAA Championship in this day and age without at least on superstar player. You also need a good coach, but IMO some lesser coaches than Geno could have won national championships with his talent. The ability of the UConn coaches to recruit the top talent makes their job a little easier when it comes to the actual game time performance of their athletes. They have the horses. If / when some other team beats them, it is due to either a sub-par performance by the UConn team or an outstanding performance by the opposing team. Look at the Dayton game last year. They competed for more than a half, but they were playing over their heads. Not to take away from Geno - he is the best coach in WCBB, but UConn had the absolute best talent in WCBB the last two years and in many other years where you have won the title.

I agree with much of what you say. A good coach (Dayton) with Uconn level of talent more than likely could win it all. Dayton had a great game plan and knew of Uconn's weakness to defend the dribble drive then mixed it up with the drive -pass out for the 3, with exceptional shooters, playing beyond their level---made the game exciting for 30 or so minutes. Was it great coaching or great stars that won that game??
Geno out coached Texas and ND--Turner Loyd Mabrey, Allen, Westbled top level talent with at least one superstar.
A mediocre coach with great talent, can't think of one right now, has to be seriously lucky two win the NCAA championship. Blair with luck and one lower star with good cast won it all--I still think that a fluke.
Last 3 years Uconn has had the best talent--and many previous years.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Are you saying that Danielle Adams wasnt a big star ?

Yes, for the record, TDF, that is exactly what I am saying.....

I saw many of her games and know her pretty well...... I don't think she was the sort of transcendent players the caliber of the ones mentioned elsewhere in this thread

 

[Bayareahusky]

On the Dayton game,.... i didn't check the stats ,.... but as i recall Dayton shot the lights out in the first half..... should not be part of any superstar discussion.....

This whole notion of "superstar" I think is a tad fickle.... because we so quickly anoint players this status based on minimal track record..... or some other criteria..... I think to self.... was Skylar Diggins a superstar....?? really do not know..... depends on definition..... was Tina Charles? Holdsclaw was. Parker was.... Maya, DT sure.... but after the obvious i am not so sure.....

In this life of seeing Monday morning talk shows saying "After his performance yesterday, do you think David Rivers is the greatest quarterback of all time?" ..... I take qualifying labels with a grain of salt

 

[DaddyChoc]

lean years? really... is that what we're calling them, with all those McDonald All-Americans?