Coaches to watch in 2023-24; Hotseat edition | Page 4 | The Boneyard

Coaches to watch in 2023-24; Hotseat edition

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CamrnCrz1974 said:
It is not just that retention is an issue, it is her top players are now starters on other ACC teams.
  • Maria Gakdeng (11.3 ppg and 6.5 rpg for BC in 2022-23) is a starter at UNC.
  • Taina Mair (11.1 ppg, 4.7 rpg, and 6.6 apg for BC in 2022-23) is Duke's starting point guard.
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Yup ...that would be retention/extraction/opposition and they're just the latest:
  • Taylor Soule to Va. Tech's Final Four team
  • Leading scorer Cameron Swartz to Ga. Tech.

Boston Globe just ran a piece hinting that NIL -- or lack thereof -- might be contributing to this (but I'm not a subscriber). In that's the case, it really hamstrings a program and any coach trying to succeed.
 
LETTERL said:
Well, it wouldn't take more than 15 or 16 Notre Dame fans to outnumber the regular attendance in the Conte Forum. Just an awful venue for basketball.
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So, BC is averaging 1,104 fans per game before ND. Dead last in the ACC and 5th among the 23 New England D1 schools. That's right, New England has 23 D1 Basketball schools and but only ONE P5 School-BC. Besides UConn, Rhode Island-1,691, UMass-1,206, Harvard-1,154 and UMaine at 1,095 are ahead of close enough to BC in game attendance. So sure, blame NIL if you want but something tells me there are other issues going on.
 
With the latest news coming out of Arizona about Kailyn Gilbert being removed from the team, it added to my random (and scary) thoughts about program turnover, how the program proceeds and what should an AD do.
As I mentioned in the Coaches on the HOT SEAT thread, one of the telltale signs any AD should be monitoring is how many good players are leaving his athletic programs and going on to contribute to direct competitors or other relevant programs.

Immediately, coming to mind is Brenda Frese who has always seemed to have a cavalcade of players who left her program and go on to great success else where. While I would be concerned as her AD, the fact is she has usually done well in the years following those departures and had great success so she seems to manage this situation well. How sustainable is it is up for debate as this years team is kind of brutal to watch.

Next up is Kelly Graves who had great success with his 2016 HS class led by Sabrina Ionescu. However, after that stellar class and the addition of the Satou sisters, Eugene has been a revolving door of players and his results have spiraled down. With the transfer portal, a remarkable turnaround is always possible but my perspective on his latest portal activity, his current team, his pending HS recruits and his joining a new league has me suspect of his future success and why I thought his “retirement” is best for him and the school. Kelly is not Dawn, Tara or Geno as an untouchable coach who can do “no wrong”. Eventually, 2-16 records catch up with you.

The latest addition to the “fire concern” brigade is Adia Barnes, since her Cinderella run a few years ago which garnered her a huge contract raise, her team has become a revolving door of drama. Look at this list of players who have left in the last 2 years
  • Lauren Ware 2020 #26 to Texas A&M
  • Paris Clark 2022 #21
  • Lemyah Hylton 2022 #85 to Miami
  • Kailyn Gilbert 2022 #31 TBA
  • Aaronette Vonleh 2021 #100 to Colorado
  • Madison Connor 2021 #71 to TCU
That’s 6 players in just 2 years. Also leaving is Maya Nnaji 2022 #9 prospect who left due to wanting to focus on her pre-med degree. Add in the fact Shaina Pellington left for her 5th year to OSU and that’s 8 players who chose elsewhere to go. She may make the NCAAT this year but she is soon to be 8-10 in conference and 16-14 overall and is that really what the AD is paying her to achieve-slightly above .500 and just making the NCAAT? She is one of the top 15 paid coaches and now down to 8 players on the roster this year.

Having one, two or three players leave is a concern which could be understandable but given the numbers and star quality that Frese, Graves and Barnes are turning over has me thinking there is a personality concern and a big one.
 
DefenseBB said:
With the latest news coming out of Arizona about Kailyn Gilbert being removed from the team, it added to my random (and scary) thoughts about program turnover, how the program proceeds and what should an AD do.
As I mentioned in the Coaches on the HOT SEAT thread, one of the telltale signs any AD should be monitoring is how many good players are leaving his athletic programs and going on to contribute to direct competitors or other relevant programs.

Immediately, coming to mind is Brenda Frese who has always seemed to have a cavalcade of players who left her program and go on to great success else where. While I would be concerned as her AD, the fact is she has usually done well in the years following those departures and had great success so she seems to manage this situation well. How sustainable is it is up for debate as this years team is kind of brutal to watch.

Next up is Kelly Graves who had great success with his 2016 HS class led by Sabrina Ionescu. However, after that stellar class and the addition of the Satou sisters, Eugene has been a revolving door of players and his results have spiraled down. With the transfer portal, a remarkable turnaround is always possible but my perspective on his latest portal activity, his current team, his pending HS recruits and his joining a new league has me suspect of his future success and why I thought his “retirement” is best for him and the school. Kelly is not Dawn, Tara or Geno as an untouchable coach who can do “no wrong”. Eventually, 2-16 records catch up with you.

The latest addition to the “fire concern” brigade is Adia Barnes, since her Cinderella run a few years ago which garnered her a huge contract raise, her team has become a revolving door of drama. Look at this list of players who have left in the last 2 years
  • Lauren Ware 2020 #26 to Texas A&M
  • Paris Clark 2022 #21
  • Lemyah Hylton 2022 #85 to Miami
  • Kailyn Gilbert 2022 #31 TBA
  • Aaronette Vonleh 2021 #100 to Colorado
  • Madison Connor 2021 #71 to TCU
That’s 6 players in just 2 years. Also leaving is Maya Nnaji 2022 #9 prospect who left due to wanting to focus on her pre-med degree. Add in the fact Shaina Pellington left for her 5th year to OSU and that’s 8 players who chose elsewhere to go. She may make the NCAAT this year but she is soon to be 8-10 in conference and 16-14 overall and is that really what the AD is paying her to achieve-slightly above .500 and just making the NCAAT? She is one of the top 15 paid coaches and now down to 8 players on the roster this year.

Having one, two or three players leave is a concern which could be understandable but given the numbers and star quality that Frese, Graves and Barnes are turning over has me thinking there is a personality concern and a big one.
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Wes Moore has had a lot of churn in his roster too in the past few years. Just this past year, Diamond Johnson (Norfolk State), Sophie Hart (Minnesota) and Jessica Timmons (Alabama) left...and Jakia Brown-Turner and Camille Hobby chose to transfer than use their COVID year with the Wolfpack. Plus, Genesis Bryant (Illinois) and Dontavia Wagonner (BC) also donned the Red and White at one time. I expect more exits to the portal after this year.

But Coach Moore isn't on the hot seat but has principles and knows how he wants to run his program and if players don't like it, they can leave...and as we have seen, they have. I suspect some coaches just have "my way or the highway" mentalities, which can be unappealing to the younger generations.
 
DefenseBB said:
The latest addition to the “fire concern” brigade is Adia Barnes, since her Cinderella run a few years ago which garnered her a huge contract raise, her team has become a revolving door of drama. Look at this list of players who have left in the last 2 years
  • Lauren Ware 2020 #26 to Texas A&M
  • Paris Clark 2022 #21
  • Lemyah Hylton 2022 #85 to Miami
  • Kailyn Gilbert 2022 #31 TBA
  • Aaronette Vonleh 2021 #100 to Colorado
  • Madison Connor 2021 #71 to TCU
That’s 6 players in just 2 years. Also leaving is Maya Nnaji 2022 #9 prospect who left due to wanting to focus on her pre-med degree. Add in the fact Shaina Pellington left for her 5th year to OSU and that’s 8 players who chose elsewhere to go.
Expand ...
That was Bendu Yeaney, not Pellington.

I think Lauren Fields also grad transferred out.

Anna Gret Asi has been at Oklahoma St. for 2 years, not sure if she fits in your timeline, she's one of OSU's better players.
 
.-.
DefenseBB said:
So, BC is averaging 1,104 fans per game before ND. Dead last in the ACC and 5th among the 23 New England D1 schools. That's right, New England has 23 D1 Basketball schools and but only ONE P5 School-BC. Besides UConn, Rhode Island-1,691, UMass-1,206, Harvard-1,154 and UMaine at 1,095 are ahead of close enough to BC in game attendance. So sure, blame NIL if you want but something tells me there are other issues going on.
Expand ...
Well, UMaine is part of the Quad Cities (Bangor, Brewer, Orono, Old Town), which probably have a good 10% of the population of Boston (city, not metro). :(

I wonder how the respective men's hockey teams draw -- I know folks who drive well over 2 hours to see UMaine hockey games.
 
nwhoopfan said:
That was Bendu Yeaney, not Pellington.

I think Lauren Fields also grad transferred out.

Anna Gret Asi has been at Oklahoma St. for 2 years, not sure if she fits in your timeline, she's one of OSU's better players.
Expand ...
Koi Love transferred from Vanderbilt to Arizona, played one season and then transferred to USC, played one season for the Trojans and then left.
Taylor Chavez transferred from Oregon to Arizona, played one season and then quit basketball.
 
jake0414 said:
Koi Love transferred from Vanderbilt to Arizona, played one season and then transferred to USC, played one season for the Trojans and then left.
Taylor Chavez transferred from Oregon to Arizona, played one season and then quit basketball.
Expand ...
Regarding Bendu Yeaney - mentioned in the post you quoted for transferring out - she tweeted after Arizona's win praise for Arizona.

Most - not all - of the players who left simply didn't get the minutes they wanted, Adia recruited over some of them, and in general, as she has admitted, expected star players to sit on a bench and develop while she brought in portal players over them.

She has admitted multiple times at multiple fan events that she "screwed up". Changed her philosophy.

Gilbert had to go.
 
A few general comments to address the status of several coaches mentioned.

1. Mostly no mention of the AD and school support their women's programs. And are they content with middle of the pack or do the really want a top 25 program?
2. No mention of the college/ university in general. Do curriculum offerings match the recruit? Size of the school. Location of the school. There are recruits who will not play for an urban school and their are those who don't want to be in the middle of nowhere.
3. What is the status of the facilities? New or old? It makes a difference. For most it's not just basketball.

Now a few specifics.
1. Xavier's new head coach, Chambers, needs time to build the program up. She was left with nothing and injuries have been a problem. Any new coach needs a minimun of 3 years to make some progress.
2. Don't see either Seton Hall or St. John's firing the coaches. Remember when Seton Hall was the ulimate door mat of the Big East?
3. Doug Bruno will retire when he chooses. He's an icon/ legend at DePaul. He does so much more than just coach basketball. He does a lot of work in Chicago.

Final comment. The portal and NIL have changed the face of college sports forever. There is money out there to pull in recruits. Player doesn't like the program, not getting playing time, off to the portal they go. The NCAA has made it easy to "transfer" out.
 
DefenseBB said:
With the latest news coming out of Arizona about Kailyn Gilbert being removed from the team, it added to my random (and scary) thoughts about program turnover, how the program proceeds and what should an AD do.
As I mentioned in the Coaches on the HOT SEAT thread, one of the telltale signs any AD should be monitoring is how many good players are leaving his athletic programs and going on to contribute to direct competitors or other relevant programs.

Immediately, coming to mind is Brenda Frese who has always seemed to have a cavalcade of players who left her program and go on to great success else where. While I would be concerned as her AD, the fact is she has usually done well in the years following those departures and had great success so she seems to manage this situation well. How sustainable is it is up for debate as this years team is kind of brutal to watch.

Next up is Kelly Graves who had great success with his 2016 HS class led by Sabrina Ionescu. However, after that stellar class and the addition of the Satou sisters, Eugene has been a revolving door of players and his results have spiraled down. With the transfer portal, a remarkable turnaround is always possible but my perspective on his latest portal activity, his current team, his pending HS recruits and his joining a new league has me suspect of his future success and why I thought his “retirement” is best for him and the school. Kelly is not Dawn, Tara or Geno as an untouchable coach who can do “no wrong”. Eventually, 2-16 records catch up with you.

The latest addition to the “fire concern” brigade is Adia Barnes, since her Cinderella run a few years ago which garnered her a huge contract raise, her team has become a revolving door of drama. Look at this list of players who have left in the last 2 years
  • Lauren Ware 2020 #26 to Texas A&M
  • Paris Clark 2022 #21
  • Lemyah Hylton 2022 #85 to Miami
  • Kailyn Gilbert 2022 #31 TBA
  • Aaronette Vonleh 2021 #100 to Colorado
  • Madison Connor 2021 #71 to TCU
That’s 6 players in just 2 years. Also leaving is Maya Nnaji 2022 #9 prospect who left due to wanting to focus on her pre-med degree. Add in the fact Shaina Pellington left for her 5th year to OSU and that’s 8 players who chose elsewhere to go. She may make the NCAAT this year but she is soon to be 8-10 in conference and 16-14 overall and is that really what the AD is paying her to achieve-slightly above .500 and just making the NCAAT? She is one of the top 15 paid coaches and now down to 8 players on the roster this year.

Having one, two or three players leave is a concern which could be understandable but given the numbers and star quality that Frese, Graves and Barnes are turning over has me thinking there is a personality concern and a big one.
Expand ...
Need to correct you on Pellington. She returned for her fifth year at Arizona. Not sure which OSU you're referring to, but she never played for Oklahoma State or Ohio State.

Shaina Pellington - Women's Basketball - University of Arizona Athletics

Shaina Pellington (1) Guard - 2023 Pac-12 Co-Most Improved Player of the Year 2023 All-Pac-12 Team 2023 Pac-12 All-Defensive Team Pac-12 Player of the Week
arizonawildcats.com arizonawildcats.com
 
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