Clingan Expectations - Year 1 and Career

[HuskyHawk]

you dont like jackson at PF so are you expecting samson to play 30 mpg? or do you think springs is going to play 10-15 mpg?? those are the only other options. without akok we need karaban at PF more than on the wing, which is fine.

besides, moving karaban to the wing would also mean less PT for the 5 Gs and we gotta sell the transfer G we still need on at least 20 mpg.

Karaban can get 10 at PF with Springs getting 5 and Johnson 25. There are only two guards on the roster, unless you count Jackson. We aren’t going to have 5 guards who play. I expect a transfer at forward, because we are relying awfully heavily on Karaban being ready, and that’s not wise. Whoever that is will probably determine whether Karaban plays more 3 or 4. It doesn’t matter really.

 

[Ricker]

Hurley needs to give Clingan some minutes in most games to spell Adama, and, get Donovan's feet wet. I think he can contribute offensively, but I expect him to be foul prone defensively and that his stints will be shorter than desired as a result. I doubt he will initially be able to play more than 3-4 minutes in a half without picking up 2 fouls. My freshman expectations are 6-8 minutes a game, 4 pts, 1 Asst, 3 rb, 4 pf, 1 blk, 2 TO's. Unfortunately, that leaves us playing a third center for 4-6 minutes a game to prevent Adama from tiring.

 

[Blue Idiaco]

I'd be shocked if he plays at all next year. he needs to lose another 30 pounds to be able to play more than half court game against D-1 athletes. Red shirt, get in shape enough to play both ends and maybe in a couple years can start and provide 20+ mins

 

[bendm]

Karaban can get 10 at PF with Springs getting 5 and Johnson 25. There are only two guards on the roster, unless you count Jackson. We aren’t going to have 5 guards who play. I expect a transfer at forward, because we are relying awfully heavily on Karaban being ready, and that’s not wise. Whoever that is will probably determine whether Karaban plays more 3 or 4. It doesn’t matter really.

If you have Karaban getting 10 mpg at The 4 and equal or more minutes at the 3 then you have him playing more than me.

But Youre definitely in the minority who dont think we should/will bring in 2 more Gs that can contribute right away. Even if castle reclasses we’ll have 3 ball handlers and 2 guys that can get their own shot. Need 1 more guy that can do both.

 

[wheelerdog]

Does anybody else here think we need another back up big guy?
What happens if Sanogo gets hurt and is out for an extended period of time?
Not to mention he is foul prone

Yes

 

[bendm]

Unfortunately, that leaves us playing a third center for 4-6 minutes a game to prevent Adama from tiring.

Samson? Springs in a pinch?

 

[HuskyHawk]

If you have Karaban getting 10 mpg at The 4 and equal or more minutes at the 3 then you have him playing more than me.

But Youre definitely in the minority who dont think we should/will bring in 2 more Gs that can contribute right away. Even if castle reclasses we’ll have 3 ball handlers and 2 guys that can get their own shot. Need 1 more guy that can do both.

I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying we won't be able to. If Castle reclasses, we will be lucky to get one more quality guard. On the other hand, if you treat Jackson as a guard, we can probably bring in a small forward. I have Karaban with so many minutes because right now, who else is going to fill them?

I'm amazed how many people think that a player that's better than Gaffney, is going to transfer away from a starting or high minute job to be the 4th or 5th guy in our guard rotation. Hurley mentioned developmental guys, because I think he knows that extra guard needs to be a 5-7 minute a game depth piece.

 

[aburks41]

Samson? Springs in a pinch?

Probably Richie. He could hold it down for 5 minutes if we need. We have so much size everywhere else that even if he is slightly undersized (although I think he's taller than Sanogo?) it won't matter too much

 

[HuskyHawk]

Probably Richie. He could hold it down for 5 minutes if we need. We have so much size everywhere else that even if he is slightly undersized (although I think he's taller than Sanogo?) it won't matter too much

I expect Samson, not Clingan, to be the primary backup 5. But I doubt Dan even knows until he fills out the roster. I've even expect Johnson to be the starting center in 23-24 over Clingan. Which is why I think we need more forwards.

 

[jibsey]

Castle said yesterday he’s going to be one and done. I don’t think he even reclasses at this point unless he is starting.

Hawkins never said it but many here said one and done. Then the Big East happened,

 

[aburks41]

I expect Samson, not Clingan, to be the primary backup 5. But I doubt Dan even knows until he fills out the roster. I've even expect Johnson to be the starting center in 23-24 over Clingan. Which is why I think we need more forwards.

“It’ll be exciting for Alex and Samson and Donovan,” coach Dan Hurley said Thursday at the Werth Champions Center. “These are high-level recruits for us. They’re going to get a chance to go out there and play"

Primary backup, maybe. But Clingan will be getting minutes. And if Johnson is playing the 5, then you have to have Jackson playing the 4. Which I think you just said on the other thread was stupid...lol

 

[aburks41]

Hawkins never said it but many here said one and done. Then the Big East happened,

There's a pretty big difference between a player saying "I am going to be a one and done" and people on the BY saying it about a player.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

I'm amazed how many people think that a player that's better than Gaffney, is going to transfer away from a starting or high minute job to be the 4th or 5th guy in our guard rotation. Hurley mentioned developmental guys, because I think he knows that extra guard needs to be a 5-7 minute a game depth piece.

A player can be better than Gaffney (very low bar) without leaving a starting or high minute job. I also think you're basing the PT available based on Gaffney's PT last year, but in a perfect world, you would have had far more PT coming from that backup PG. The issue was that he was so bad on the court that Hurley just couldn't afford to keep Cole on the bench.

 

[jdb50]

Samson did not look uncomfortable shooting from the outside and has a nice shot. I don't see him as a 5 here. I could see Springs or Clingan giving Adama a rest and getting into the mix. You never know when a player turns an ankle or has a groin injury and is out for a few games. People were calling for someone to run the baseline last year and Samson would be a good candidate for that. That leaves Jackson, Newton, Hawkins and Karaban to be at the 1 through 3 roles. Need one more player for that group.

 

[HuskyHawk]

“It’ll be exciting for Alex and Samson and Donovan,” coach Dan Hurley said Thursday at the Werth Champions Center. “These are high-level recruits for us. They’re going to get a chance to go out there and play"

Primary backup, maybe. But Clingan will be getting minutes. And if Johnson is playing the 5, then you have to have Jackson playing the 4. Which I think you just said on the other thread was stupid...lol

Karaban can play the 4. And Springs. I think Johnson is the starting 4, but also backup 5 when we go smaller. He is a very good baseline runner and dunker based on his HS tape. He can hit 3s. But as I said, we need another guard and another forward. If Dan sees Karaban as a 4, then that other "forward" is a wing, someone like Martin. If not, then we need a stretch 4, big 3 (like Karaban). Can never have too many of those guys really. We need another shooter with size.

I think we are all mostly saying similar things. We need flexible pieces that can play multiple positions. Some people are interpreting the 4 out as 4 guards and a center. I'm interpreting it more as 4 guys who are 6,5"-6'9" who can shoot at the 1-4 and a center. Some of those guys need a little bulk and/or length to handle interior defense. Who is really playing what position? It's almost irrelevant. I expect Andre to have the ball up top on offense at least as much as Newton.

 

[aburks41]

Karaban can play the 4. And Springs. I think Johnson is the starting 4, but also backup 5 when we go smaller. He is a very good baseline runner and dunker based on his HS tape. He can hit 3s. But as I said, we need another guard and another forward. If Dan sees Karaban as a 4, then that other "forward" is a wing, someone like Martin. If not, then we need a stretch 4, big 3 (like Karaban). Can never have too many of those guys really. We need another shooter with size.

I think we are all mostly saying similar things. We need flexible pieces that can play multiple positions. Some people are interpreting the 4 out as 4 guards and a center. I'm interpreting it more as 4 guys who are 6,5"-6'9" who can shoot at the 1-4 and a center. Some of those guys need a little bulk and/or length to handle interior defense. Who is really playing what position? It's almost irrelevant. I expect Andre to have the ball up top on offense at least as much as Newton.

That's a fair assessment. We're going to see both a 4 guard lineup and a "traditional" 1-4 lineup. Hurley going after big guards makes me think he likes the idea of being able to play more positionless basketball, and gives him flexibility on defense. You could mix and match a lot of our lineups and they will make sense. How many teams can say that their smallest guard is 6'5" and their tallest player is 7'2"? We have a massive roster and our guards are all insanely athletic. I'm not going to be concerned on defense if one of them has a height mismatch. They are athletic enough to counteract that.

 

[HooperScooper]

Hawkins never said it but many here said one and done. Then the Big East happened,

There's a lot of stupid stuff on here. Doesn't mean a thing.

 

[NJHusky]

This. You’d read some of the genuis’s discussions of the high hedge and assume we were an awful defensive team. As if zone, or a switching man to man, or any other defense would work every single time against every single opponent.

I think what some folks, me included, were so frustrated by was Hurley’s monochromatic view of defense. Hedge works…but not 100% of the time either.

Dan Hurley said Adamo was worn down. Really??? U had him running gassers from the bucket to the top of the key for 30 games and you’re surprised??

Why not let Whaley sub for Adama more instead of playing both together? Folks posted numbers that showed our best offense was when Whaley was at the 5

If Dan Hurley tries to get DC to play the same hedging defense i don’t think it’s going to work. Good coaches recruit personnel that fit their schemes. Great coaches adapt to their personnel. I don’t see DC fitting last years hedging defense. Let’s see what next year brings.

 

[businesslawyer]

I think what some folks, me included, were so frustrated by was Hurley’s monochromatic view of defense. Hedge works…but not 100% of the time either.

Dan Hurley said Adamo was worn down. Really??? U had him running gassers from the bucket to the top of the key for 30 games and you’re surprised??

Why not let Whaley sub for Adama more instead of playing both together? Folks posted numbers that showed our best offense was when Whaley was at the 5

If Dan Hurley tries to get DC to play the same hedging defense i don’t think it’s going to work. Good coaches recruit personnel that fit their schemes. Great coaches adapt to their personnel. I don’t see DC fitting last years hedging defense. Let’s see what next year brings.

There are many coaches that don't change defenses to fit their opponents. They do that knowing that it won't work 100% of the time, but believing that having your defense play one way is the best way to keep getting better defensively. See, e.g., Knight, Robert Montgomery.

Do I think it's possible that Hurley misread Sanogo's total workload, and that we would have been better off in the post season if he had played 3 or 4 minutes a game less all year? Yes, that's certainly possible. But given how little help we got from the bench all year long, I am not going to beat him up for trying too hard to win too many games either.

 

[NJHusky]

There are many coaches that don't change defenses to fit their opponents. They do that knowing that it won't work 100% of the time, but believing that having your defense play one way is the best way to keep getting better defensively. See, e.g., Knight, Robert Montgomery.

Do I think it's possible that Hurley misread Sanogo's total workload, and that we would have been better off in the post season if he had played 3 or 4 minutes a game less all year? Yes, that's certainly possible. But given how little help we got from the bench all year long, I am not going to beat him up for trying too hard to win too many games either.

Knight, Robert hasn’t coached a game in how many years? I’ve seen other moderately successful coaches like JC or K not play the same way for 30 years

 

[bendm]

i'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm saying we won't be able to. If Castle reclasses, we will be lucky to get one more quality guard. On the other hand, if you treat Jackson as a guard, we can probably bring in a small forward. I have Karaban with so many minutes because right now, who else is going to fill them?

I'm amazed how many people think that a player that's better than Gaffney, is going to transfer away from a starting or high minute job to be the 4th or 5th guy in our guard rotation. Hurley mentioned developmental guys, because I think he knows that extra guard needs to be a 5-7 minute a game depth piece.

but if you look at hurley's transfer offers so far, none are for guys that can play the 4 spot, theyre all CGs/SGs/Ws 6'6 or less so karaban is not getting bumped down from the 4 to the 3.

idk if this is why we seem to be talking past each other but karaban is not a wing. a "wing" has always been defined as a player that can play both the 2 and 3, just like a CG can play both the 1 and 2.

Swingman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

in a three guard offense the 3rd guard is playing at the 3, so he can also be referred to as a wing. all wings are Gs but not all Gs are wings. karaban is a tweener forward that can play the 3 and stretch 4, but he is not a "wing."

moving on... even if castle reclasses we still have 20-25 mpg available for another CG/SG/W. they have to be willing to come off the bench so we need the right fit. PC just did it with locke and carter (they both cannot start) so i have no doubt we can also find such a guy that will contribute more than floyd/gaff will this year.

you think you cant have enough big shooters. well i think you cant have enough guys that can shoot and handle.

 

[bendm]

We need another shooter with size.

my last point here and i think we can finally agree. based on our offers a shooter with size could be a 6'6 wing type. is that big enough for you? he would keep karaban at the 4 but our Gs/Ws would all be 6'5-6'6. we still have at least 20 mpg available for him. i know you love samson so i bumped his mpg up too.

Newton 30- Castle 10
Hawk 25- Castle 10- Transfer 5
Jackson 25- Transfer 15
Samson 20- Karaban 10- Jackson 5- Springs 5
Sanogo 30- Samson 5- Clingan 5

30- newton, jackson, sanogo
25- hawkins, samson
20- castle, transfer
10- karaban
5- springs, clingan

 

[aburks41]

my last point here and i think we can finally agree. based on our offers a shooter with size could be a 6'6 wing type. is that big enough for you? he would keep karaban at the 4 but our Gs/Ws would all be 6'5-6'6. we still have at least 20 mpg available for him. i know you love samson so i bumped his mpg up too.

Newton 30- Castle 10
Hawk 25- Castle 10- Transfer 5
Jackson 25- Transfer 15
Samson 20- Karaban 10- Jackson 5- Springs 5
Sanogo 30- Samson 5- Clingan 5

30- newton, jackson, sanogo
25- hawkins, samson
20- castle, transfer
10- karaban
5- springs, clingan

IF Castle reclasses, I cannot see a world where Castle is getting less MPG than Samson. I know they play completely different positions, but Hurley would have to figure out a way to get more minutes for Castle, and it would probably be at the expense of Johnson. We would play a 4 guard lineup and shift Hawkins/Jackson to the 3/4 spot.

 

[bendm]

IF Castle reclasses, I cannot see a world where Castle is getting less MPG than Samson. I know they play completely different positions, but Hurley would have to figure out a way to get more minutes for Castle, and it would probably be at the expense of Johnson. We would play a 4 guard lineup and shift Hawkins/Jackson to the 3/4 spot.

bazz and jalen got just over 20 mpg as freshmen so i dont think it's unreasonable for a reclass but i agree. i think 25 is a lot of PT for samson. i initially had him at 20, same as castle, and gave the other 5 mpg to karaban which bumped him to 15.

 

[aburks41]

bazz and jalen got just over 20 mpg as freshmen so i dont think it's unreasonable for a reclass but i agree. i think 25 is a lot of PT for samson. i initially had him at 20, same as castle, and gave the other 5 mpg to karaban which bumped him to 15.

I'm only saying that because Castle said a few days ago "I will be a one and done". He isn't reclassifying to play 20 MPG. He is going to need at least 25.

 

[bendm]

I'm only saying that because Castle said a few days ago "I will be a one and done". He isn't reclassifying to play 20 MPG. He is going to need at least 25.

eh. for him to be one and done he'd prob want/need a starting spot and 30 mpg, which he's not getting here next year no matter what.

my 2 cents- either way he has to wait 2 years until he gets to the nba and he'd be better prepared if he reclasses and spent both years in college rather than 1 more in highschool and 1 in college. so give him ~20 mpg next year and then ~30 mpg as our soph starting PG and future lotto pick.

 

[aburks41]

eh. for him to be one and done he'd prob want/need a starting spot and 30 mpg, which he's not getting here next year no matter what.

my 2 cents- either way he has to wait 2 years until he gets to the nba and he'd be better prepared if he reclasses and spent both years in college rather than 1 more in highschool and 1 in college. so give him ~20 mpg next year and then ~30 mpg as our soph starting PG and future lotto pick.

Ahh so he'd be too young to declare after next season anyways? Hmm. Idk the mixed messaging is weird. He says he's going to be a one and done, but you'd think he would know he can't be 1&D if he reclasses...

 

[navery12]

Ahh so he'd be too young to declare after next season anyways? Hmm. Idk the mixed messaging is weird. He says he's going to be a one and done, but you'd think he would know he can't be 1&D if he reclasses...

He can, he'd be eligible for the 2023 draft. I think he's just saying he won't actually be ready after 1 year if he reclasses

 

[superjohn]

Ahh so he'd be too young to declare after next season anyways? Hmm. Idk the mixed messaging is weird. He says he's going to be a one and done, but you'd think he would know he can't be 1&D if he reclasses...

He's eligible to be drafted after next season.

 

[HuskyHawk]

my last point here and i think we can finally agree. based on our offers a shooter with size could be a 6'6 wing type. is that big enough for you? he would keep karaban at the 4 but our Gs/Ws would all be 6'5-6'6. we still have at least 20 mpg available for him. i know you love samson so i bumped his mpg up too.

Newton 30- Castle 10
Hawk 25- Castle 10- Transfer 5
Jackson 25- Transfer 15
Samson 20- Karaban 10- Jackson 5- Springs 5
Sanogo 30- Samson 5- Clingan 5

30- newton, jackson, sanogo
25- hawkins, samson
20- castle, transfer
10- karaban
5- springs, clingan

As the 5-6 posts after yours show: we don't know if Castle is going to reclass. And I think it will impact who we bring in. Newton is graduating, and could leave, which gives Castle a path to start next year. So does Hurley preserve that? That means you don't get somebody like Tyrese Hunter. If he reclasses, he's not one and done. Maybe he's ok with that. In any event, flexible pieces and some developmental guys who don't play much. And yes, a wing would work, preferably with some muscle and rebounding ability. I don't think we have whole lot of use for a short guard who can only play 1-2, unless it's a bench role and injury protection. Which helps explain why Diggins is gone. Floyd on the other hand, seems to be exactly what we need.