Chief’s Briefs - Xavier Edition

[Billy Jack]

I get it, you don’t want to use a 7-2 freshman center that Bill Walton raved about, while seeing him play three games. What does Bill Walton know about playing the center position?

Don’t know what Walton has to do with this conversation, but more to the point, do you think he played well last night?

 

[gsmooth]

AJax has no touch. On one shot in particular he penetrated and was above the rim to lay it in but it rolled out. No wonder he dunks as often as he can. Very frustrating.

That's exactly what I was alluding to in my post #53. When he is within 15 ft of the basket he will only shoot if he has no other option. It's like his mindset is "oh , I have to shoot this I have no other choice". It's like he is playing basketball for the first week of his life in the sense that I am not sure he ever learned or was taught how to shoot in these situations.

 

[Chief00]

It was all of 15ft maybe more. It was comical and he was content with jacking shots and when he did drive it was an ugly floater/push shot he put up. He is afraid of contact it seems to me

Sometimes I think there’s a little too much going on upstairs. Andre is a smart and thoughtful kid who athletically can do things others can just dream about.
But, having said, there comes a time either on a drive or a stationary shot where you just have to get in a shooting zone with eyes singularly focused on the rim and visualizing arching the ball just over the front of the rim.
I don’t know if he always gets in that zone but he needs to.

 

[Chief00]

Don’t know what Walton has to do with this conversation, but more to the point, do you think he played well last night?

Donovan is one of our top players but had the eighth most minutes (7). He shot 1-2, had 3 rebounds and missed a couple foul shots. He’s a 65% FG shooter for the season, so I would have liked to see him get more minutes and shots.
Bottom line, he’s scored 150 FG points in 296 minutes. So a point every two minutes. Give him 20 minutes (10 points), 30 minutes (15 points) and he’s only going to get better if he gets minutes.
He averages 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. Give him 26 minutes per game and that’s 12 rebounds. Looking at what certain other guys produce, we are crazy leaving that production on the bench.
More importantly, he can change a game. We only have a few guys who can do that.

 

[Seamus84]

Sometimes I think there’s a little too much going on upstairs. Andre is a smart and thoughtful kid who athletically can do things others can just dream about.
But, having said, there comes a time either on a drive or a stationary shot where you just have to get in a shooting zone with eyes singularly focused on the rim and visualizing arching the ball just over the front of the rim.
I don’t know if he always gets in that zone but he needs to.

100%. I love everything about Ajax…his intensity, passion, instincts, hustle and all the skills he brings to the team, full stop. Would just love to see him try getting more aggressive when DC on the court at the same time. Drive to the basket, get fouled or get it to the rim and let DC clean it up. You got this AJ, and we’re all rooting for you!!

 

[Conndog]

I'm not sure what is wrong. If we had one of those big aggressive scoring forwards that the other team lately always seems to have, I don't know if they would have the same success playing for us as when they are playing against us. Somehow, these last 6-7 games the other team has open space to operate near the basket. Is it just that our front line defenders aren't doing a good job stopping penetration? Is it because we don't always have 5 credible shooters in the game, which lets the other team to clog area around the basket? These top Big East teams seem to have 5 players who all can make the outside shot which opens up things for them. The screens that free their shooters have been tough to defend- do we have the personnel to use the same strategy? I just can't understand what needs to change to win again- maybe having Jackson start on the bench is the best first step.

 

[JB75]

Your referencing a Bill Walton lineup is pretty revealing. Two bigs is not the answer. It doesn’t solve our defensive problems and it definitely doesn’t help offensively. Clingan should 100% get more minutes, but it should be with Sanogo on the bench. He needs the post to himself anyways and Sanogo can’t play outside ten feet again.

Also having trouble getting excited about Hurley “figuring some things out” in this game. It’s the end of January and we’re 2-6 in our last 8. One or two more games “figuring it out” and they’re going to be figuring out what beach they’re on for spring break

U guys keep saying 2 bigs is not the answer but meanwhile the losses keep piling up and DC continues to get Minimal tick. I still don’t understand and wud like to kno what we have to lose by trying it? One thing we do know is that we have lost 5 of our last 6 —- so, again—- what’s to lose by trying it? 5-6 mins of bad basketball? Big deal, cuz the way things are going with this team, not trying or changing anything wud be a big deal.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

ajax can't shoot, for physiological reasons, and pointed out here years ago.
we are who we are.
having said that, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
i believe that the best offensive strategy with him is to have him jack a few earlier in the game to see if he has it working that day. other than my usual buckets resulting from sheer will and effort, i too am not a consistent shooter (usually, not my job), yet there are plenty of times when, magically, it all goes in. mebbe i had a good day earlier, mebbe i had a bad day earlier, good news, bad news, who knows where it came from? a cold? ask pro athletes and most will tell a tale of being barely able to stand up, yet on the field of play that day, they became babe ruth. i sure don't know, but it does happen every now and then. i once put up 52 in a league game, and every single observer thought 'where is the defibrillator, cuz my ticker is aboot to stop.'
sooo, yes, see if he is 'in the zone,' and proceed accordingly.

the real problem, discussed at length last summer, is that his inability simply allows the d to sag way off, and his defender to just further clog up the paint, making it more difficult for us to operate in there.
ajax is a good player, tho subject to poor management, like a few others on the team.

that '52' tale is my version of the al bundy 5 touchdown game, both coming in relatively meaningless games.
pretty funny, except for my pals who've heard it and usually say 'not that again...'

 

[yungdowork]

Donovan is one of our top players but had the eighth most minutes (7). He shot 1-2, had 3 rebounds and missed a couple foul shots. He’s a 65% FG shooter for the season, so I would have liked to see him get more minutes and shots.
Bottom line, he’s scored 150 FG points in 296 minutes. So a point every two minutes. Give him 20 minutes (10 points), 30 minutes (15 points) and he’s only going to get better if he gets minutes.
He averages 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. Give him 26 minutes per game and that’s 12 rebounds. Looking at what certain other guys produce, we are crazy leaving that production on the bench.
More importantly, he can change a game. We only have a few guys who can do that.

I'm not even going to touch your double big argument because you obviously won't be swayed. But extrapolating stats like that is insane, especially for a guy who is 7'2 who has never played more than 21 minutes in a game at the college level.

 

[DawgEnjoyer]

Donovan is one of our top players but had the eighth most minutes (7). He shot 1-2, had 3 rebounds and missed a couple foul shots. He’s a 65% FG shooter for the season, so I would have liked to see him get more minutes and shots.
Bottom line, he’s scored 150 FG points in 296 minutes. So a point every two minutes. Give him 20 minutes (10 points), 30 minutes (15 points) and he’s only going to get better if he gets minutes.
He averages 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. Give him 26 minutes per game and that’s 12 rebounds. Looking at what certain other guys produce, we are crazy leaving that production on the bench.
More importantly, he can change a game. We only have a few guys who can do that.

He also at least tries to contest shots in the paint when the other team blows by our over aggressive perimeter D.

Even in the second half when Adama was "good" he still did that numerous times.

 

[ClifSpliffy]

'aww, man, u should have seen it. gym was packed that day (mebbe 50 people, including the 2 other teams waiting to play the next game). i was el fuego, draining from 40 feet (thru up a chuck at end of 1st half),
dunking on everyone (run outs on breaks against no defenders), and i owned the stripe like kobe (8 or 9 for 10 from the line, which happens like never).
good times. lol. sheer luck.

 

[Chief00]

I'm not even going to touch your double big argument because you obviously won't be swayed. But extrapolating stats like that is insane, especially for a guy who is 7'2 who has never played more than 21 minutes in a game at the college level.

Extrapolation isn’t perfect but when the counter argument seems to be based solely on feelings, especially after 6 recent loses, Chief would rather go with the data and evidence.

 

[HuskyinWRNY]

A great crowd at Gampel erupted in the second half as the team finally recognized their two best offensive players are Hawkins and Sanogo. Mr Hawkins brings us back with 26 points in the second half in a wire type game but we fall just short. We lost this game early.

After Hawkins and Sanogo led us back in the game, Danny benches both and Xavier ran off 5 points, and then moved the lead back to 11. What don’t we understand about riding the hot hand? But then we finally did learned that until late turnovers killed us.

We are approaching February and this team still doesn’t know it’s identity other than we don’t quit. Our centers are shooting over 58%, yet Danny still has failed to institute the double big, despite playing a zone defense.

What’s also became apparent is against physical teams one Big just doesn’t cut it. Xavier penetrated with ease and got second shots. We need to clog up the lane.

Jackson takes 8 shots to open up the game while Hawkins took 1. A woman reporter pressed Andre last game about why he wasn’t more offensive and I wonder if tonight’s out of character opening was some response to that?

Newton put some points on the board the first half and ending up with 21 points, kept us in the game until Hawkins got hot.

A very tough lose, Xavier repelled our runs. I think Danny needs to learn the early timeout at the start of the game. We dug too deep a hole.

this team is looking like the team everyone thought it was pre season - out of the top 25

 

[evmore]

A great crowd at Gampel erupted in the second half as the team finally recognized their two best offensive players are Hawkins and Sanogo. Mr Hawkins brings us back with 26 points in the second half in a wire type game but we fall just short. We lost this game early.

After Hawkins and Sanogo led us back in the game, Danny benches both and Xavier ran off 5 points, and then moved the lead back to 11. What don’t we understand about riding the hot hand? But then we finally did learned that until late turnovers killed us.

We are approaching February and this team still doesn’t know it’s identity other than we don’t quit. Our centers are shooting over 58%, yet Danny still has failed to institute the double big, despite playing a zone defense.

What’s also became apparent is against physical teams one Big just doesn’t cut it. Xavier penetrated with ease and got second shots. We need to clog up the lane.

Jackson takes 8 shots to open up the game while Hawkins took 1. A woman reporter pressed Andre last game about why he wasn’t more offensive and I wonder if tonight’s out of character opening was some response to that?

Newton put some points on the board the first half and ending up with 21 points, kept us in the game until Hawkins got hot.

A very tough lose, Xavier repelled our runs. I think Danny needs to learn the early timeout at the start of the game. We dug too deep a hole.

Spot on as usual... Could it be his infatuation for Karaban, who does play like a much older, mature player at the expense of boards & defensive ability, is clouding his judgment? Could not 6-8 of Ak's minutes go to DC in a 2-big lineup?

 

[Husky pride]

Eh…this is probably the best example of a team we should be able to defend with two bigs. Sanogo on Freemantle, Clingan on Nunge.

Nunge’s “second chance” basket toward the end of the game, really hurt. Can’t help but wonder if Nunge couldn’t have been contained, to a greater extent, if Clingan had played more than 7 minutes. By the way he handles his “bigs” Hurley seems to coach strictly on the basis of a guard mentality—his own former position. We have capable “twin towers” but fail to use them…even now with Johnson available as a 6’10” possible backup. We’ll be at a match-up disadvantage, at a number of future scheduled Big East games if we don’t take advantage of our “big man” talent!

 

[Drfla]

I don’t think “one big” is the issue. Xavier is the only team with two. What I consistently see is our guys 1-4 get overpowered. Jackson is athletic, but not strong. Karaban is a freshman who needs 10 pounds of muscle. Newton and Hawk do ok, but often face stronger guys. Alleyne is one of the few who can tussle with them.

Obviously we had other issues. I think Alleyne needs to start for Jackson going forward but I doubt that Hurley will do it. Jackson is the weakest link on the team. Can’t score and plays poor 1 v 1 man D.

Hawk is a special offensive talent. Sanogo played terrific defense, challenging shots all over the court. Newton played the way we need. Karaban had an off game. Alleyne played well and brought real energy.

From your posts we know you love, love, love Sanogo. But even you can’t believe he played terrific defense. Adequate defense might even be a stretch. He does help the team on offense spending more time at the high post. He passes better from there and it opens up driving lanes for Newton and Hawkins.

Hawkins is a special offensive talent but he needs to be that the whole game not half.

 

[3rdbass]

We have lost 6 of the last 7 games playing 4 out and 1 in. Yet, we can’t even try the double big that countless teams have done very successfully over the years. Instead, we have one of our top 3 players playing 7 minutes. That’s not how you win, as the results have proven. People need to let go of this failed concept, which doesn’t align with our talent.

Don't you mean 5 out of last 7? Lost 6 of our last 8. We beat Creighton and Butler. I know the losing seems worst at times. LOL!

 

[Drfla]

Donovan is one of our top players but had the eighth most minutes (7). He shot 1-2, had 3 rebounds and missed a couple foul shots. He’s a 65% FG shooter for the season, so I would have liked to see him get more minutes and shots.
Bottom line, he’s scored 150 FG points in 296 minutes. So a point every two minutes. Give him 20 minutes (10 points), 30 minutes (15 points) and he’s only going to get better if he gets minutes.
He averages 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. Give him 26 minutes per game and that’s 12 rebounds. Looking at what certain other guys produce, we are crazy leaving that production on the bench.
More importantly, he can change a game. We only have a few guys who can do that.

Great. Play DC more and AS less. That will get him more time.

 

[gsmooth]

Great. Play DC more and AS less. That will get him more time.

Playing the twin towers together for a few minutes should probably be explored in a few games and in general Clingan should get more playing time, but last night was not one of the games for more time for DC. I love the guy and I am glad he is here, but he was terrible in last night's game.

 

[HuskyHawk]

From your posts we know you love, love, love Sanogo. But even you can’t believe he played terrific defense. Adequate defense might even be a stretch. He does help the team on offense spending more time at the high post. He passes better from there and it opens up driving lanes for Newton and Hawkins.

Hawkins is a special offensive talent but he needs to be that the whole game not half.

He was really good on D last night. Go watch it again. Cutting off drivers, challenging shooters, blocked Boum at one point. He was very very active, especially in the middle of the 1-3-1. At one point he cut off a drive, forced a pass, then defended that guy, who passed down and Nunge scored. Chat said "where was Sanogo?" like a bunch of blind morons. He was out there covering for so many mistakes by other players.

Sometimes I wonder if people have any grasp on who is actually supposed to guard the opposing players.

 

[yungdowork]

Playing the twin towers together for a few minutes should probably be explored in a few games and in general Clingan should get more playing time, but last night was not one of the games for more time for DC. I love the guy and I am glad he is here, but he was terrible in last night's game.

I love Clingan but he has been objectively not very good in the last 4 games, since he dropped 20 vs Marquette. There's nothing wrong with that, it's normal freshman growing pains. But I think people get distracted by the physical tools and are hyping him up a bit too much. He's fouling at a rate that is not sustainable (averaging about 6.25 per 40 mins) and that is affecting his minutes severely. Especially considering he's received a few technicals too.

 

[TRUCONN76]

Clingen did not play well last night. I certainly did not want to see more of him. He committed 2 fouls in 7 minutes. At that rate, he wouldn’t have lasted more than 17 minutes. He missed both of his FTs. In general he was not particularly effective.

 

[TRUCONN76]

Clingen did not play well last night. I certainly did not want to see more of him. He committed 2 fouls in 7 minutes. At that rate, he wouldn’t have lasted more than 17 minutes. He missed both of his FTs. In general he was not particularly effective.

Clingan played less than a minute in the second half. In the first half he came in after over 13 minutes of Sonago doing practically nothing played for a little over 4 minutes then sat down. For a player with his skills that is that not enough time to know if he is playing well or not. He would be starting on almost any other team. Hurley is certainly treating him differently than he treated Sanogo his freshman year. His development is being held back. I like Hurley but Chief is right, he has got to open his eyes and see what isn't working. If Johnson was available and prepared it would be a different story as he could create a lot of mismatches, but even then at times you would want to put a team on the court that the opponent can't defend instead of worrying about what you can defend.

 

[Chief00]

I was at last nights game, in person, you see better what's the problem.
Two bigs is definitely the answer. Why? Because our "bigger" guards can't keep quicker guards in front them. So, they give them some space, and "boum" they reign threes down on our heads , or if we "jam" them, they go right by.
With Clingan in there ( the guy is gigantic in person), the penetration stops at about 8 ft., fewer trys at point blank with him in there. He doesn't block every shot, but he intimidates every shot.
Plus his rebounding, with Sanogo, would prevent easy put backs by the opposition.

Yes, that’s what happens in person. Got to drop now and get ready for Red Fox tonight. Should be a good time despite these loses.

 

[REB1094]

I turned it on at 9-0 as well so didn’t see AJax misses. If they’re giving him enough space (I realize 15ft may be an exaggeration) why didn’t he drive to basket and force the defense to defend or foul? He’s got a decent enough handle and can obviously jump/ challenge any defender. But again, I didn’t see the plays so I may be unfairly judging. What did you guys think as you saw it in real-time?

My live reaction was:
0-0: alright, force them to respect you out there
0-1: you’re still wide open, let it fly
0-2: if you can make 1 of every 3, that’s a win
0-3: please stop
0-4: please stop
0-5: please stop
0-6: please stop
Benched after 0-7 (this was 4 minutes into the game and down 9-0)

 

[ctkaiser]

Again with the double big nonsense

They can’t defend with both clingan and sanogo on the floor. That’s very obvious

Let the other team adjust to defending two bigs.

 

[Billy Jack]

Donovan is one of our top players but had the eighth most minutes (7). He shot 1-2, had 3 rebounds and missed a couple foul shots. He’s a 65% FG shooter for the season, so I would have liked to see him get more minutes and shots.
Bottom line, he’s scored 150 FG points in 296 minutes. So a point every two minutes. Give him 20 minutes (10 points), 30 minutes (15 points) and he’s only going to get better if he gets minutes.
He averages 6 rebounds in 13 minutes. Give him 26 minutes per game and that’s 12 rebounds. Looking at what certain other guys produce, we are crazy leaving that production on the bench.
More importantly, he can change a game. We only have a few guys who can do that.

It doesn’t work that way. You can’t simply project numbers mathematically. But if you want to do that, I’ll note that DC is averaging 6.2 fouls per 40 minutes. That’s a problem that he has to fix, and that alone will limit his playing time. And when he goes to the line to shoot FTs himself, he’s a major liability, hitting only 50%.

He may be one of our best players, but he’s also one of our least experienced. And at times he plays like just what he is - a freshman. He needs time to develop and he’s getting that.

 

[ctkaiser]

Agree with this. Seems like Dan Hurley is posting AJ up on the block early in games to get him thinking offensively.
Hasn’t panned out yet but he has gotten good looks. It was unfortunate he missed all those outside shots but he had to take them. As a result of his misses and further reluctance to take the shots later in the game it allowed the defense to continue to clogged up the lane. If he makes a few the lane gets bigger for our drives and Sanogo

I don't anybody needs to take outside shots in the first 10 seconds of the clock especially one who's not a good outside shooter. Run the offense and get shots in the flow of the offense.

 

[ctkaiser]

Playing the twin towers together for a few minutes should probably be explored in a few games and in general Clingan should get more playing time, but last night was not one of the games for more time for DC. I love the guy and I am glad he is here, but he was terrible in last night's game.

I think he's pressing a bit. It doesn't have to be twin towers for extended time but why is it automatic that one comes out when the other goes in.

 

[Billy Jack]

Clingan played less than a minute in the second half. For a player with his skills that is that not enough time

He’s own worst enemy. He got pulled in the second half right after he made the boneheaded move of getting called for 2 fouls on one play. Right after he missed 2 FTs and Claude went around him for a lay up. At that time it was a 6 point game and we had come most of the way back from the half time deficit. Coach wasn’t going to leave him in there to mess that up. He looked lost out there.