Chief’s Briefs - USC Edition

[brasssbonanzaa]

We're not going to be seeing too many zones rolling out guys at 7', 6'10, 6'9, 6'8, 6'8, 6'7, 6'6. While it made for a very effective defensive scheme, just by nature of their size, it makes their offense difficult to run. Almost none of those guys outside Eddy are strong ballhandlers. They seem to have something like 5 Tyler Polleys.

So while they could be super-talented and matchup nightmares, their offense sputters because there's little flow and offense generation. They have very a odd roster construction.

This game would have been a big matchup opportunity for Akok.

 

[ThabeetDown]

We essentially sacrificed offense for defense and rebounding tonight. It wasn’t pretty but it worked. That is coaching. Hurley’s best offense is with two guards, two wings and one big aka the starters from the first two games.

You couldn’t roll that out vs the Mobleys. Hurley made a business decision to win the game on the defensive side of the ball with effort and grit and that’s what happened. Sure you want to do well on both sides of the ball, but it’s most important to win even if the path to victory is one-sided.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Everybody altered there shot inside tonight instead of taking it up strong. Hopefully if the other team doesn’t have a top 5 draft pick in the middle our zone offense will be better just from that fact alone.
While I agree we played some tough defense especially in the paint this team missed a lot of wide open looks.
Still getting a win is a good thing and you know this team will be working hard and improving as the season goes on something not all programs will.
I like our chances to right a lot of our wrongs

 

[Watchdog]

Let’s keep it brief. That was as bad a second half as I can remember.

Short memory........

 

[Watchdog]

We picked the zone apart for a good portion of the first half with Whaley and Bouknight at the high post.

6 for 12 on first half three's with good ball movement.
Second half lots of passing around the outside and settling for rushed shots. Where were the passes into the post with kickouts to shooters and where were the short jumpers in the lane or at the elbow by Whaley that he took and made in the first half?

 

[nycscooby]

He just said they will have to gut out victories. Scoring isn't there.

His job is to figure that out. I didn't love much of our O game and lack of adjustments there, still a lot to figure out there and guys need to learn to play together with the newcomers but a previous poster nailed it, we would have lost this December game every year since '14 so I will take the toughness and effort and move on.

 

[BlueDogs]

They are factored in, but there are differences between college basketball and the NBA. Offensive rebounding is a major difference. It's a lot more effective in college.

Getting fouled is hugely emphasized in analytics, so your ignorance is showing there.

Long mid range shots are still bad in college. Floaters are okay.

I think the point is rather you don’t voluntarily take away 30% of the offensive floor because it allows 5 defenders to cover 30% less space. Analytics don’t account for secondary and tertiary effects of opening up the baseline when a wing is forced to come up or a guard must cover down to help, creating space at the arc, baseline or weak side. You have to create scoring threats in the tween space to allow for the other spaces to be less effectively contested. If we saw huge jumps in average scoring, I might think otherwise, but what analytics is giving defensive adjustments takeaway.

 

[Bomber36]

Quite frankly, one thing we have learned with the exception of Bouknight other guys are up and down. Especially with Polley not playing well, the book on UConn is to play a zone against them.

We box out and go to the ball well on the defensive boards. A bad trend is giving away foolish fouls and allowing your opponents to tally easy points at the line. We do far too much reaching, taking very bad gambles. Otherwise our defense was decent.

Josh looked thinner and played well early. The Josh and Whaley combination is interesting and shows the value of experience. Whaley played well. Sanogo got in foul trouble and it’s tough to be productive on the bench. While Chief really likes his game he needs to make better decisions on the court.

Unfortunately, Chief hasn’t changed his assessment of Polley. He just isn’t moving well after his injury and is having problems getting in the flow of the game. He got in foul trouble as a result. For a guy who is suppose to be a shooter, he’s displaying very little confidence in his shot.

E Mobley is going to be a great player but other than some foolish fouls on him, we defended fairly well until late.

Chief thought Danny was slow to call a timeout on USC’s run halfway through the second half. Nor did we make any offensive adjustments. Gaffney is a good player but he needs to be much more aggressive offensively. We are very dependent on Bouknight offensively. When he’s out of the game, it shows. Even when he was in the game shooting was cool the second half.

Martin is solid but not the star some posters made him out to be after last game. Jackson did not seem ready.

Chief doesn’t know why refs allow timeouts when the ball is basically being contested on the floor. Those are really jump balls.

We desperately need another scorer. But, we did play tougher than our opponent.

So was Bouknight. He only scored 3 points in the second half and had some turnover issues. It’s early. I’ll take the win.

 

[Hankster]

I don't think this game is close if Hurley is more flexible as a coach. Hurley pulling 4 guys when we were up 13 was an abysmal coaching move. He missed some obvious timeout opportunities. He needed to ride that momentum as long as possible when we were up. No movement against a basic 2-3 zone is just not okay. I LOVE a lot of what Hurley does, tonight didn't feel like his night on the offensive end to me.

That being said, our D looks very very good IMO. Much better than a week ago, MUCH. I thought our double-teams on Mobley were textbook, even our rotations afterwards to the weak side were pretty darn good too.

We haven't seen enough man D to really know what normal big east play will look like offensively. But man the zone offense...

Bouknight needs to be assertive after the first 5 minutes. He's too talented to float and give the darn ball to Cole in crunch time? WHAT WAS THAT? 5 TOs and 5/15 from the floor is unacceptable. He should be a 20/7/3 on 50% shooting and 35% from 3 guy with maybe 2 TOs every single night.

Whaley looked like Whaley. Smart decision on D. Versatile defending the perimeter. Energetic. Makes plays when we need it. He has looked like the team leader to me so far.

And CARLTON? He wasn't *as* good the second half, but he earned his minutes tonight. Much quicker, good decision making. Proud of him.

Gaffney is slowing down the offense too much but otherwise looked just okay.

Cole looked okay... not great.

Martin continues to impressive. Unbelievably tough on defense. He really needs to work on his finishing and shooting... everything seems to tough and stiff instead of smooth.

Our freshman were not ready tonight. Not ready at all. I'll give them a pass--it was their first high-major game.

This is a game we lose the last 6 years. Happy to see the improvement.

This was no cupcake like the last two games. This was a big time win.

Carlton did well. However I still saw butter fingers and throwing the ball up in the ai under the hoop. Not even close. But good showing.
Whaley doesn't need need to be told what to do. He goes out there with a purpose. He is all over the court. He wants to be involved. Seeing Polley break out last year and now Whaley is a feel good story.

USC had a way better defense than the last two cupcakes. Probably why some think a couple of our guys were absent. Gaff will be alright and so will Cole. Martin is so smooth with his play. Very comfortable out there. NC State up next. Let's see what happens then.

 

[patrick]

I’m sorry, I know everyone thinks of Hurley as a god around here, and I really, really, really like him. But figure out an offense against a zone. It’s atrocious. 3 points in the last 8 minutes against a bad defensive team. Something has to change or it’s going to be same old. Also Gaff and Cole are as of right now net 0 players. All these offseason pics/vids of pickup game domination and ripped muscles don’t matter until you show it on the court, and neither of them have.

I pray to sir Hurley every night! I mean who would you like me to pray to? Joe Pesci?

All jokes aside we didn't score enough at the end of the game but we did have good looks!
My Gods gave us a W once again..... ugly maybe? But in March nobody will remember!!

 

[HuskyCane]

Whalley needs to be our 2nd scorer after Bouknight. He was killing the zone from the foul line and can create one on one.

 

[Chief00]

Bouknight wasn’t up and down ? Lol

Fair point but when you lead the team in scoring and your team to a victory - I thought I would make some distinction. As Danny said after the game, he should have had 27.

 

[yungdowork]

Bouknight has been red hot to start the last 2 and then cooled down considerably. Although last night he had some good looks that just didn't fall that I think he normally makes.

I think Cole does a better job running the offense right now than Gaffney but I think he might be in trouble against more skilled guards who go at him on defense. Hoping we see either more offense or more assured defense from him in the next few games.

As always, big performance from Whaley. Very pleasantly surprised by the near double double for Josh

 

[Chief00]

I don't think this game is close if Hurley is more flexible as a coach. Hurley pulling 4 guys when we were up 13 was an abysmal coaching move. He missed some obvious timeout opportunities. He needed to ride that momentum as long as possible when we were up. No movement against a basic 2-3 zone is just not okay. I LOVE a lot of what Hurley does, tonight didn't feel like his night on the offensive end to me.
Martin continues to impressive. Unbelievably tough on defense. He really needs to work on his finishing and shooting... everything seems to tough and stiff instead of smooth.
Our freshman were not ready tonight. Not ready at all. I'll give them a pass--it was their first high-major game.
This is a game we lose the last 6 years. Happy to see the improvement.

I edited out a couple points to respond to, Hurley has to now get past scoring over 100 points against CCSU and deal with some real offensive issues. It was a great line after game 2 but no longer. I couldn’t agree more it’s always a double edge sword with good depth - that you start substituting to be fair and keep roughly “equally talented guys happy” rather than doing things to win like ride momentum. Yet, with all this depth we can’t find another shooter. Yes, Danny needs to use timeouts so dry spells aren’t prolonged and make adjustments. The middle of the zone (the foul line area) looked pretty open to me. We attack there a few times but not nearly enough.
Martin right now is probably defense and rebounding but he did reach 10 points tonight, an improvement from 6. Thrilled if he gave us 8-12 per night. He will apparently get the minutes, at least until the young guys are more ready.
Its much easier and less painful to learn something from a win not a lost - so let’s use this win as a motivator of how good we are even when we play terrible offense the second half -so if we clean that up - we can beat a lot of teams.

 

[djct1999]

This is still a very young team who haven't played with each other that long. Games like last night can prove invaluable in the long run for a team like this. To still be able to win vs a quality opponent no matter how ugly it was is a gigantic step in the right direction, atleast psycologically. The best thing about last night was our frontcourt. Our FRONTCOURT! Let me repeat, we have a frontcourt. When was the last time we were able to say that? Whaley, Carlton, and Martin were fantastic. If those three can play like that, with further contributions from Sanogo and Akok, watch out. We have a legitimate roster and a coach who will have these guys flourishing when it matters most. After my initial reaction and having time to think about it, I am more optomisitc than ever!

 

[navery12]

 

[Umami Zen]

A win is a win.. Will be a valuable lesson for BE play and seeding in Tournament....USC looks like a Tournament team to me by the end of year.. Not many teams will have USC's length at the top of a zone defense.. Saw much more effort on D as compared to previous 2 games.. Josh seemed to play with some urgency.. Which he needs to do.. Don't know why but it seemed like we took too much time to get into our offense . It looked like the shot clock was winding down late into a lot of our possessions. 3-0 is better than the alternative..

 

[HuskyHawk]

Fair point but when you lead the team in scoring and your team to a victory - I thought I would make some distinction. As Danny said after the game, he should have had 27.

Well, when you score your team's first 13 (and lead 13-12) the defense is going to adjust. James wasn't going to get his points in the paint against the Mobleys, and they knew that and focused on taking away his jump shot, playing him tighter. I've also noticed that all three opponents bump him a bit, get a little rough with him. I recall screaming at Ollie's teams to do that to hot shooters. Take the foul, but make them feel it, knock them off rhythm. JB will get better at dealing with that. He's only been our lead scorer for maybe 7-8 games. Cole, Gaff or Polley need to help by actually hitting from outside. We also run fewer plays to hit slashing cutters to the basket than any team I've ever seen. I think that guys like Martin, Jackson and Akok when healthy will be very dangerous if we can get them the ball in that situation.

 

[auror]

I think the point is rather you don’t voluntarily take away 30% of the offensive floor because it allows 5 defenders to cover 30% less space. Analytics don’t account for secondary and tertiary effects of opening up the baseline when a wing is forced to come up or a guard must cover down to help, creating space at the arc, baseline or weak side. You have to create scoring threats in the tween space to allow for the other spaces to be less effectively contested. If we saw huge jumps in average scoring, I might think otherwise, but what analytics is giving defensive adjustments takeaway.

You are not using the right term. Analytics is not an offense or even an offensive philosophy. Analytics is the interpretation of useful statistics. If defense changes, analytics will reflect this.

But b|yond that, spacing the floor with shooting is a beginning, not an end. You then create the offense that utilizes that space. Having 5 guys just stand around on the perimeter isn't good offense even if all 5 can shoot. But having 5 guys who can shoot makes good offenses more dangerous.

 

[Son of Robert]

I think the offensive ball movement is much better with both Gaffney and Cole on the floor. This doesn't solve everything, or even address matchups like USC, but the offensive half court sets were turning into iso ball at times. Just sayin, it's early in the season, nothing like some ball movement to get your offense humming.

 

[Justin M]

I think we really struggle to get momentum to push the ball up and down without Akok on the floor. His blocked shots were a shot of adrenaline on both ends. DH has done it a few times over the past few years out of timeouts, but in search of momentum and a spark, we run a back screen alley oop play, same one we ran out of the under 3 timeout - questionable given score and timing. Irregardless good win, no fans doesn’t help the momentum issue, but hopeful Akok will!

 

[Tenspro2002]

My sense is that we are trying to be 2018 Villanova on offense with one reliable outside shooter. Yeah, that isn’t going to work.

The Defense with two bigs was vastly improved. All you people saying Whaley isn't a 4. He sure as hell is on D and if he can hit those elbow jumpers he is offense too. You don’t actually want your 5 hedging on ball screens. As we saw on offense, having a 7 foot shot blocker planted at the rim erases a lot of defensive mistakes. There is a reason even NBA teams play that way.

The answer to zones is to go back to basics. Feed the paint, pass big to big from foul line to post. Kick out of the post as needed and make threes, of of the collapse on the post the guy at the foul line shoots or passes out. It sucks that Daniel Hamilton never had this team to work with. Our Zone buster foul line decision makers are Akok (out) Polley (not good) Jackson (young). Maybe Martin can help but we didn’t use him there. We used Whaley there briefly and it was so-so.

Overall a good win. Cole needs to shoot better. Gaffney needs to get past the deer in the headlights phase. Josh needs to play. Polley needs to play very little unless he can be better. Adams looked tentative after one good and one bad game. Almost rather see him be cocky. It was pretty clear that the bigger lineup was better on D and the boards. If we can figure out how to run, run, run. I don’t care about our zone offense. Transition kills zone teams. Jackson and Akok are the keys to us playing that way.

We're stuck in between in terms of a 1-big or 2-big lineup.

Whaley is absolutely capable as a 4 on defense -- he's comfortable hedging on the perimeter, guarding stretch-4's, dealing with PnR, and holding his own on the post -- and our team defense overall was better with him and Carlton/Sanogo in there together. The question is on offense.

Whaley was semi-credible in the high post against the zone, but not really on the perimeter. Against a zone, you really need that 4th shooter to punish them on rotations, kickout action, the diagonal pass from the baseline, etc.

 

[Tenspro2002]

I think the offensive ball movement is much better with both Gaffney and Cole on the floor. This doesn't solve everything, or even address matchups like USC, but the offensive half court sets were turning into iso ball at times. Just sayin, it's early in the season, nothing like some ball movement to get your offense humming.

The problem is that while both are capable ballhandlers, decent passers, and usually play within the flow of the offense, neither of them has been a credible threat to break someone down off the dribble, either against M2M or zone.

It's fine to have one guy who is primarily a safe option and a good spot-up shooter. But it's hard to play both of them, along with both Whaley and Carlton, because then you really have only one guy who is creating for himself or pressuring the defense off the dribble.

 

[imno1]

Funny how last year Bouk couldn't get going until the 2nd half and this year it's the other way around.
I'm a little higher on Cole than many here but our guards never penetrate. It's all east and west with them. Neither seems to have the quickness or are crafty enough to take their man off the dribble.
So happy for Josh. Just missed a double - double. He played really well but needs to be better at the line.
What can you say about Whaley? 5 blocks (should have been 6). He's become our second best player.
Josh probably deserves the start but I like him off the bench so he doesn't pick up quick fouls 2 minutes in.
I would go with the same lineup as last night and just expect Sanogo to be better.