Cheating Coaches

[3uconn]

CBS is doing this three week period where when they were out watching recruits and grading them in July where they post one question of the day. The answers are from other college coaches. Some previous questions were like do you believe World Wide Wes is still involved in CBB today or who is the most overrated coach. Today it was, who is perceived by college coaches to be the biggest cheater in the sport? The answer.
John Calipari (Kentucky): 36 percent
Scott Drew (Baylor): 34 percent
Ben Howland (UCLA): 12 percent
Jim Calhoun (Connecticut): 7 percent
Tom Crean (Indiana): 3 percent
Dave Rice (UNLV): 3 percent

Other coaches were voted on but these were the biggest vote getters.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...ceived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport

 

[UConnSwag11]

calhoun is only considered a cheater by others bc the media imo is out to get this guy... bc hes not the golden child of coach k (who should have multiple violations) and that hes a winner who doesnt get 6 mcds every year and he comes off as a tough hard nosed sob... and i love it

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I agree with the quote about Calipari. You probably have to cheat to get All-Americans to go to Umass and Memphis, but now he's at a blueblood school, he's putting five guys in the NBA every year, and he even won a national championship. He's gotten to the point where kids now (see Kuran Iverson) are begging to be recruited by Kentucky. There was a much better chance of him already getting "caught" than there is of him getting "caught" in the future.

It's like Stringer Bell from The Wire- he knew that if he made enough money dealing drugs and used it to start legitimate businesses, he'd eventually be untouchable by the police. Calipari's turned his little "operation" into an empire at Kentucky and he probably doesn't even have to cheat anymore.

 

[uconndennis]

calhoun is only considered a cheater by others bc the media imo is out to get this guy... bc hes not the golden child of coach k (who should have multiple violations) and that hes a winner who doesnt get 6 mcds every year and he comes off as a tough hard nosed sob... and i love it

C'mon dude....He is "preceived" a cheater because we just got caught "cheating" with Nate Miles. Regardless of how dumb we think the infractions were or if Calhoun even knew. Plenty of people also think we got Rudy in an unethical manner...therefore, Im sure its not a stretch from some of these coaches to think that Calhoun "cheats" often....or has to cheat to get NBA players to Storrs( which one of the coaches called "miserable")

 

[caw]

Not shocking. I did find the comment for the justification for choosing Calhoun to be interesting.

"You ever been to Storrs? It's miserable. But Calhoun, somehow, has recruited pros there for decades."

I see the misplaced perception that UConn gets a ton of all-americans is still there.

A better question is why any decent shooting guard wouldn't be lining up to play for Calhoun? I mean seriously:

• Reggie Lewis (83-86), First Round Draft Pick, I can't remember, but I don't think he was an All-american in high school
• Chris Smith (88-92), Second Round Draft Pick, from CT, not All-American in high school - I know he was kind of a hybrid, but I think he was more of a 2 than a 1.
• Scott Burrell (89-93), First Round Draft Pick, from CT, not All-American in high school
• Ray Allen (93-96), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Rip Hamilton (97-99), Lottery Draft Pick, All-American in high school
• Ben Gordon (01-04), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Denham Brown (03-06), Second Round Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Jerome Dyson (07-10), undrafted, signed by NBA team,not All-American in high school
• Jeremy Lamb (11-12), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school

Of those 9 players, only 1 was an All-American in high school. That's not even getting into PG's, SF's, PF's and C's. Heck only 8 of the 31 NBA drafted or eventual NBA players were high school all-americans, or would have been in other circumstances (Drummond/Caron).

 

[UConnSwag11]

C'mon dude....He is "preceived" a cheater because we just got caught "cheating" with Nate Miles. Regardless of how dumb we think the infractions were or if Calhoun even knew. Plenty of people also think we got Rudy in an unethical manner...therefore, Im sure its not a stretch from some of these coaches to think that Calhoun "cheats" often....or has to cheat to get NBA players to Storrs( which one of the coaches called "miserable")

only person who cares about the rudy situation was gary williams who took his time and thought it was a lock... and one kid in his whole career bc of some text messages between the assistant coaches and noch... this sums it up "You ever been to Storrs? It's miserable. But Calhoun, somehow, has recruited pros there for decades." Pretty much sums up why he is hated , that and no practice facility.

 

[UConnSwag11]

I agree with the quote about Calipari. You probably have to cheat to get All-Americans to go to Umass and Memphis, but now he's at a blueblood school, he's putting five guys in the NBA every year, and he even won a national championship. He's gotten to the point where kids now (see Kuran Iverson) are begging to be recruited by Kentucky. There was a much better chance of him already getting "caught" than there is of him getting "caught" in the future.

It's like Stringer Bell from The Wire- he knew that if he made enough money dealing drugs and used it to start legitimate businesses, he'd eventually be untouchable by the police. Calipari's turned his little "operation" into an empire at Kentucky and he probably doesn't even have to cheat anymore.

doesnt hurt to have WWW

 

[uconNYC]

I honestly feel these polls by CBS are fabricated. I can't imagine so many coaches (probably need about 20 or so to conduct a legit poll) being so candid to reporters on these questions. And all the answers are basically what the average fan would anticipate. It's hard for me to believe a list of the "best coaches", "worst coaches", "cheaters" - would be so mundane. You would think coaches would have inside knowledge that would be quite different than mainstream thinking.

 

[Burnsbros23]

I'm surprised Calhoun only got seven percent. Gordon was really highly thought of coming out of high school.

 

[HuskyBballFan]

I'm surprised Calhoun only got seven percent. Gordon was really highly thought of coming out of high school.

Calhoun only got 7 percent because guys like John Calipari and Scott Drew exist.

 

[mcs333]

Where is Bruce Peral. Oh he is no longer coaching!!

 

[Hoophound]

"Storrs is miserable". I find that funny. I love Storrs, always have. College kids want to have some fun and "interact" with each other. The idea that kids won't be drawn to a beautiful and bucolic campus is just selling kids short. Very few, if any kids have passed through our basketball program and said "Storrs is miserable" on the way out. UConn has a very pretty campus and I always had fun there. Those of us that have spent a lot of time in huge cities(like many big city basketball players) can relate to it's charms.

 

[upstater]

C'mon dude....He is "preceived" a cheater because we just got caught "cheating" with Nate Miles. Regardless of how dumb we think the infractions were or if Calhoun even knew. Plenty of people also think we got Rudy in an unethical manner...therefore, Im sure its not a stretch from some of these coaches to think that Calhoun "cheats" often....or has to cheat to get NBA players to Storrs( which one of the coaches called "miserable")

Uh, what happened with Nate Miles is no different than what happened with Corey Maggette at Duke.
They didn't get Rudy in an unethical manner either. How did they get Rudy any differently than Duke and other teams regularly get their players?

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

I agree with the quote about Calipari. You probably have to cheat to get All-Americans to go to Umass and Memphis, but now he's at a blueblood school, he's putting five guys in the NBA every year, and he even won a national championship. He's gotten to the point where kids now (see Kuran Iverson) are begging to be recruited by Kentucky. There was a much better chance of him already getting "caught" than there is of him getting "caught" in the future.

It's like Stringer Bell from The Wire- he knew that if he made enough money dealing drugs and used it to start legitimate businesses, he'd eventually be untouchable by the police. Calipari's turned his little "operation" into an empire at Kentucky and he probably doesn't even have to cheat anymore.

Last paragraph was a good analogy. Well said...

 

[BLUEDOGHOUSE]

I would feel uncomfortable if not on the list! For this you have to give Jim 5*****! Congrats!

Scotty Drew? The Baylor brand of religion sells the school to a large degree. Most of the big recruits are faith based players including Isaiah Austin who just finished schooling Noel at Adidas Nation.

 

[HuskyFan32]

Not shocking. I did find the comment for the justification for choosing Calhoun to be interesting.

"You ever been to Storrs? It's miserable. But Calhoun, somehow, has recruited pros there for decades."

I see the misplaced perception that UConn gets a ton of all-americans is still there.

A better question is why any decent shooting guard wouldn't be lining up to play for Calhoun? I mean seriously:

• Reggie Lewis (83-86), First Round Draft Pick, I can't remember, but I don't think he was an All-american in high school
• Chris Smith (88-92), Second Round Draft Pick, from CT, not All-American in high school - I know he was kind of a hybrid, but I think he was more of a 2 than a 1.
• Scott Burrell (89-93), First Round Draft Pick, from CT, not All-American in high school
• Ray Allen (93-96), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Rip Hamilton (97-99), Lottery Draft Pick, All-American in high school
• Ben Gordon (01-04), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Denham Brown (03-06), Second Round Draft Pick, not All-American in high school
• Jerome Dyson (07-10), undrafted, signed by NBA team,not All-American in high school
• Jeremy Lamb (11-12), Lottery Draft Pick, not All-American in high school

Of those 9 players, only 1 was an All-American in high school. That's not even getting into PG's, SF's, PF's and C's. Heck only 8 of the 31 NBA drafted or eventual NBA players were high school all-americans, or would have been in other circumstances (Drummond/Caron).

THANK YOU! I wish I could double like that. I was going to say the same thing. They arent NBA players when they get to Storrs, but they leave as ones. Okafor, Gordon, Hilton, Lamb, Thabeet. None of them were huge recruits at all. Its not like were pulling in 3 top 10 guys every year like KY, UNC, or Duke. That perception is just wrong. Any coach in the country couldve sent Drummond to the NBA but not many wouldve turned Hilton into a lottery pick.

 

[mets1090]

"Storrs is miserable". I find that funny. I love Storrs, always have. College kids want to have some fun and "interact" with each other. The idea that kids won't be drawn to a beautiful and bucolic campus is just selling kids short. Very few, if any kids have passed through our basketball program and said "Storrs is miserable" on the way out. UConn has a very pretty campus and I always had fun there. Those of us that have spent a lot of time in huge cities(like many big city basketball players) can relate to it's charms.

The only thing that can be miserable about Storrs is the winter. The winter which seems to go from November to late March. The campus itself is awesome though and the student body is a pretty good mixed bag. I know people from all different walks of life and with all different interests that have had outstanding times at UConn. It's a pretty awesome school.

 

[boog204]

THANK YOU! I wish I could double like that. I was going to say the same thing. They arent NBA players when they get to Storrs, but they leave as ones. Okafor, Gordon, Hilton, Lamb, Thabeet. None of them were huge recruits at all. Its not like were pulling in 3 top 10 guys every year like KY, UNC, or Duke. That perception is just wrong. Any coach in the country couldve sent Drummond to the NBA but not many wouldve turned Hilton into a lottery pick.

Ben Gordon was definitely a "big" recruit. He may not have been a McD AA but he was universally ranked in the 30-50 range by everyone. If by "huge" you are referring to McD status, which we all know is a bit inflated, then you are right. But you are the second person in this thread to imply that JC somehow took a nothing player like BG and made him a lottery pick. And that's not true. I'll give you Hilton, HT, EO, and Lamb to an extent.

 

[stick]

Ben Gordon was definitely a "big" recruit. He may not have been a McD AA but he was universally ranked in the 30-50 range by everyone. If by "huge" you are referring to McD status, which we all know is a bit inflated, then you are right. But you are the second person in this thread to imply that JC somehow took a nothing player like BG and made him a lottery pick. And that's not true. I'll give you Hilton, HT, EO, and Lamb to an extent.

Ben Gordon was highly coveted by UConn, but he wasn't a "top" recruit by no means and was certainly not a high school All-American. It was mainly due to the fact that he played limited AAU ball. His final two schools, I believe came down to Seton Hall and UConn and for the longest time Seton Hall and Amaker thought they had him. He wanted to go to to Duke out of high school, but K took the All-American Daniel Ewing instead.

 

[boog204]

I guess it's all semantics. To me anyone ranked in the top 50 is an excellent prospect and Ben was ranked in that range by just about anyone. In the big scheme of things the difference between #50 and #20 is pretty neglible. He might not have been highly recruited, but he was certainly known as a major recruit when he committed. Putting him in the same category as Hilton (who was in the 200s), Okafor (who jumped due to the Uconn commit to the 90s, I think), Thabeet (not sure if he was even ranked), and Lamb (ended up in the 80s I think) is not fair to Ben.

Here's an old "rankings" table I found on him... http://statsheet.com/bhsb/players/ben-gordon

 

[HuskyFan32]

Ben Gordon was highly coveted by UConn, but he wasn't a "top" recruit by no means and was certainly not a high school All-American. It was mainly due to the fact that he played limited AAU ball. His final two schools, I believe came down to Seton Hall and UConn and for the longest time Seton Hall and Amaker thought they had him. He wanted to go to to Duke out of high school, but K took the All-American Daniel Ewing instead.

What is your point. So Gordon wasnt quite as low as the others. He still wasnt a huge recruit. Uconn doesnt get 3 top 15 recruits every year like some schools. In fact we get about 3 of those every 5 years. And looks whose had as much if not more success than all of them. So Im still struggling to see your point if you made one at all....

 

[caw]

I guess it's all semantics. To me anyone ranked in the top 50 is an excellent prospect and Ben was ranked in that range by just about anyone. In the big scheme of things the difference between #50 and #20 is pretty neglible. He might not have been highly recruited, but he was certainly known as a major recruit when he committed. Putting him in the same category as Hilton (who was in the 200s), Okafor (who jumped due to the Uconn commit to the 90s, I think), Thabeet (not sure if he was even ranked), and Lamb (ended up in the 80s I think) is not fair to Ben.

Here's an old "rankings" table I found on him... http://statsheet.com/bhsb/players/ben-gordon

I'm not implying the guys I listed were shmucks in high school. The point wasn't solely that these guys weren't high school all-americans, but rather that Jim Calhoun has had an NBA player/draftee at the two spot for all but 3 years at UConn, without benefiting from getting guys who could have gone direct to the NBA, he knows how to coach the 2 spot.

I do have issue with saying the difference between 20 and 50 is negligible, or as implied in the article, NBA players. The guys UConn has gotten have not been NBA ready players by and large.

From Ben's class, of the top 10 players:
Curry, Wagner, Chandler, Cisse, Brown, Hodge, Diop, Rickert, Lee were all drafted, 7 in the first round of their draft. Only Kelvin Torbert wasn't drafted.

10-20
David Harrison, Mo Williams, TJ Ford, Childress and Wayne Simien were drafted, 4 in the first round.

21-30
James White, Jamal Sampson, Thompson, Daniel Ewing were all second rounders

31-40
Maxiell, Diener, one in each round

41-50
Ben Gordon, duh

BTW
51-60 - zero
61-70 - Salim Stoudamire (second round)
71-80 - zero
80-90 Channing Frye (first round), Lawrence Roberts (second round)
90-100 Emeka Okafor (#2 overall)

51-100 had 2 first rounders and 2 second rounders

100+ (listed on statsheet.com) Luther Head (first round) Hakim Warrick (first round)
I may have missed someone in the 100+ range.

So 1-20 had 11 first rounders and 14 draft picks. 20-50 had two first rounders and 5 second rounders. That is a huge difference.

Assuming I didn't miss someone in the top 120, you have 14 drafted in the first 20, and 13 in the next 100 or so.

 

[uconndennis]

Uh, what happened with Nate Miles is no different than what happened with Corey Maggette at Duke.
They didn't get Rudy in an unethical manner either. How did they get Rudy any differently than Duke and other teams regularly get their players?

Uh, what happened with Nate Miles is no different than what happened with Corey Maggette at Duke.
They didn't get Rudy in an unethical manner either. How did they get Rudy any differently than Duke and other teams regularly get their players?

Did I miss the part where Duke lost schollies for a recruiting violation?
The Rudy thing was fine with me, but we know it rubbed Williams the wrong way, at least.
This poll was about perception....and I'm not surprised at all if other coaches would list Calhoun. Not saying I agree with them, but it's not hard to see why

 

[upstater]

Did I miss the part where Duke lost schollies for a recruiting violation?
The Rudy thing was fine with me, but we know it rubbed Williams the wrong way, at least.
This poll was about perception....and I'm not surprised at all if other coaches would list Calhoun. Not saying I agree with them, but it's not hard to see why

1. The fact that the NCAA didn't punish Duke for Myron Piggie paying Corey Maggette is irrelevant. You were making the point that Calhoun is not underserving of being on this list because of Miles. I pointed out that Calhoun's case was similar to K's and many other coaches.

2. Gary Williams took Nik Caner-Medley away from UConn by playing AND paying the Pump Bros. AAU team. Williams has nothing to cry about.

It's not hard to see why? you wrote?

That's exactly what I was pointing out. The hypocrisy. These coaches were all involved in the AAU con, and in fact, Calhoun was less involved than most of them.