Charlie says

[VolFan]

VolFan - when I visited your board earlier in the year I was really surprised with the vitriol directed toward Graves. I have always liked her game, but felt she has suffered greatly from a somewhat limited offensive scheme and especially in previous years from indisciplined guards. At times she almost seemed to give up two years ago as she watched yet another wild Simmons jumper sale through the air. Do you get the sense that the fan base has 'rewarmed' to her?

I think Bashaara had a sophomore slump, but the people who say she isn't skilled enough or hasn't expanded her game aren't intelligent.One look at her performance versus Notre Dame can show how she's developed since her freshman year to her junior season. The problem for Bashaara these past 2 seasons is that as a freshman, she was option #1 in the paint. After the emergence of Izzy, people attacked her for her lack of production, though she was just getting fewer touches and not having to get as many rebounds. Once Izzy went out, and she performed at an extremely high level as option #1 again, the critics shut up.

 

[CocoHusky]

Charlie was simply saying what could be a possibility.. he didn't say "SC WILL have the best frontcourt duo next year" he said we could... Which is true. We COULD.
Don't even start talking about the plethora of big bodies that Baylor will be throwing at people this season.

South Carolina could not be and WILL not be the best front line in the country. UCONN post isolation game is devastating and South Carolina does not have a post player to either defend the post or go to secondary post move. I 'll just call it out Coates does not have a secondary post move. She has to finish over the defender with her first move. Same with Wilson. Baylor??? might be throwing size at people, UCONN will be throwing Skill. I like UCONN skills. That is what we are talking about right-Skills?

 

[triaddukefan]

I was thinking exactly the same. It is much more interesting having you all come and chat here than just us UCONN fans preaching to the choir. Really happy to have you all here.

 

[hussybulldog]

SC will probably be the biggest, but the best ? will they play 3 posts, with Wilson at the 3 ?

They will miss Welch, she was a tough, physical player

I agree, surprised she did not get picked up till the third round. (vs. Kia get drafted in the first round, no slight meant here. I just thought two could be drafted close to each other.)

 

[hussybulldog]

Anyone can make the statement that college has the best front line next year--the proof is next year when REAL front lines clash.
I won't say Uconn will have the best or 33rd best just yet, Butler, Stewie, Tuck, Boykin, Collier, KLS, Gabby, ---Bigger isn't always better--the proof was this year. Uconn did NOT have the bigger front line in a few of their overly large point wins --I won't say the obvious : the difference was in the coach--or darn I said it...

I would not say just coach, the players are very important as well!

 

[hussybulldog]

SC will probably be the biggest, but the best ? will they play 3 posts, with Wilson at the 3 ?

They will miss Welch, she was a tough, physical player

They can play three bigs next year, but UConn can play BS/MT and Butler to counter. So the word BEST is dubious at best.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

South Carolina could not be and WILL not be the best front line in the country. UCONN post isolation game is devastating and South Carolina does not have a post player to either defend the post or go to secondary post move. I 'll just call it out Coates does not have a secondary post move. She has to finish over the defender with her first move. Same with Wilson. Baylor??? might be throwing size at people, UCONN will be throwing Skill. I like UCONN skills. That is what we are talking about right-Skills?

The good thing is that we play each other again next season so that we can see it live and in technicolor.

 

[EricSD]

The good thing is that we play each other again next season so that we can see it live and in technicolor.

Absolutely. I'd bet a lot of money that UCONN wins by more than we did this past year.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

Absolutely. I'd bet a lot of money that UCONN wins by more than we did this past year.

I'd take that bet since the game is in Columbia.

 

[EricSD]

I'd take that bet since the game is in Columbia.

I'd give about 5-7 points for a home field advantage, and maybe I'm overconfident, but the amount that both schools lose, compared to what UCONN adds - I'm of the opinion that UCONN will be better by more than SC. I actually could see Baylor being better than SC next year as well as possibly Notre Dame and Tennessee.

In other words, we lose KML and Stokes - roughly equal to what Welch and Ibiam gave SC. But bringing back Stewie, Tuck, Jefferson, and Nurse as well as the quartet of Newbies (3 frosh + Butler) is far substantial to what SC adds in that PG from Canada. And against a team like SC, having Butler will be absolutely huge. Not saying she's as good as Coates or Ibiam, but against a really big team like SC, she will be invaluable.

For the record I was one of the UCONN fans that said we'd beat you guys by 20 this year. SC just didn't have the horses to hang with UCONN in my opinion. A really good team and in a universe where there was no UCONN, you'd have been in the NC game vs. ND. Next year you will have 3 legit players who could be AA's - Mitchell, Wilson and Coates. Problem is UCONN has 4, and they bring in the 2 best freshmen in the nation in Samuelson and Collier. And that's why I think the gap between UCONN and SC will be even larger next year... But hey, that's why they play the game.

 

[CocoHusky]

I'd give about 5-7 points for a home field advantage, and maybe I'm overconfident, but the amount that both schools lose, compared to what UCONN adds - I'm of the opinion that UCONN will be better by more than SC. I actually could see Baylor being better than SC next year as well as possibly Notre Dame and Tennessee.

In other words, we lose KML and Stokes - roughly equal to what Welch and Ibiam gave SC. But bringing back Stewie, Tuck, Jefferson, and Nurse as well as the quartet of Newbies (3 frosh + Butler) is far substantial to what SC adds in that PG from Canada. And against a team like SC, having Butler will be absolutely huge. Not saying she's as good as Coates or Ibiam, but against a really big team like SC, she will be invaluable.

For the record I was one of the UCONN fans that said we'd beat you guys by 20 this year. SC just didn't have the horses to hang with UCONN in my opinion. A really good team and in a universe where there was no UCONN, you'd have been in the NC game vs. ND. Next year you will have 3 legit players who could be AA's - Mitchell, Wilson and Coates. Problem is UCONN has 4, and they bring in the 2 best freshmen in the nation in Samuelson and Collier. And that's why I think the gap between UCONN and SC will be even larger next year... But hey, that's why they play the game.

Eric as your self appointed chief negotiator I would like add a cause equal 3-6 additional points depending one when the game is played. If played before the start of AAC conference play I would give those points to South Carolina just based on the theory that UCON has more new part to integrate. UCONN still wins big IMO but an earlier game might be the difference between 20 point win vs. 14 point win.

 

[watanabe]

I'd take that bet since the game is in Columbia.

I'll cover that, AND give you what ever odds you want. Making it look like SC is going to give us a challenge is good off season fodder, but next year is going to be one for the UConn record books. NO one will be near UConn's skill level next season.

 

[meyers7]

This summer will be important for Wilson because now.. she knows the defense, she's witnessed the speed of the game, she's played in the final four... now she knows where her offense needs to be in order to play the best she can. She's gone up against the Loyds, Stewarts, Tucks, etc.. so she knows how her game should look. I would love for Wilson to just watch tape on Stewart all summer and model her game after her. Wilson is a forward that wants to be a guard, and Dawn told her if she wants to be a guard then she has to put in the work.. so hopefully this summer she does that.. and knowing her, she will.

Not really sure how SC is supposed to have the best front court with Wilson playing guard.

She can drive and shoot like a guard, mid range and behind the arc.. and she can post up in the paint, plus more.

 

[meyers7]

I won't talk up how good SC is going to be next year because I honestly don't know.. nobody really knows for sure how their team will return from the summer.

I don't think SC will be better next year. Certain players will be better, but overall as a team, I don't know that they'll be better. And unfortunately for them, others teams will improve. Duke will be better with some guards, Baylor and Tennessee will be improved. And of course UCONN will be better, not a lot probably, but better.

 

[Frodo]

[QUOTE="...having Butler will be absolutely huge. Not saying she's as good as Coates or Ibiam...[/QUOTE]

I'll be stunned if Butler isn't way better than Ibiam and probably better than Coates. Ibiam averaged 6 points and less than 4 rebounds per game and Coates was 11/8. Neither of those are especially impressive. Ibiam's status, especially, far exceeded her ability. Against UConn, Ibiam and Coates were a combined 6/6. Butler was basically 14/14 as a freshman, including a 16/15 game against Cal's Reshanda Gray. Her only problem at Georgetown was a tendency to turn the ball over. I think her greatest asset, if she earns a starting spot, will be to allow Stewart and Tuck more even options on offense.

 

[chrissaran]

Who cares about Baylor's big bodies? When Griner went to Baylor, everyone outside of Connecticut was predicting four National Championships. Yes, they got screwed against Louisville. That would have been only two championships, and the posts they've recruited are nowhere near as talented. As for Morgan, she will be a fourth year junior, who before this year hadn't played a lot of minutes, especially after having missed most of last year.

 

[SCGamecock]

I don't think SC will be better next year. Certain players will be better, but overall as a team, I don't know that they'll be better. And unfortunately for them, others teams will improve. Duke will be better with some guards, Baylor and Tennessee will be improved. And of course UCONN will be better, not a lot probably, but better.

I don't think it's a guarantee that ANY team will be better, and that includes UCONN.. even with the class they're bringing in. I think a lot of UCONN fans undervalue how good this 2014-2015 team was just to prove the point that they'll keep getting better year after year.. UCONN's 2014-2015 team was really good and KML was special, she won't be easily replaced, even by Samuelson. Before UCONN fans attack me with a list of their plethora of 3-point shooters, take notice that I said "easily". Sure, you'll always have shooters but finding somebody as automatic as KML, good luck. She was a gem. Nobody knows for certain that Samuelson will be as automatic as KML her freshmen year.

SC "only brought in a PG from Canada" and may not scream final four team to most of you.. but I don't think anybody wants SC in their regional as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year.

Tennessee, Duke and Baylor getting better isn't just a problem for SC, it's a problem for everybody. Personally, I think Tennessee and Baylor will have final four talent next year and be able to compete with UCONN. Tennessee is just missing a dominating post and if Warlick lands Akhator and gets this team to gel then look out.... and by "look out" I mean everybody.. even UCONN.

 

[meyers7]

I don't think it's a guarantee that ANY team will be better, .

Well nothing is a guarantee, heck we could have a zombie apocalypse and there won't be a WBB season next year. But for the purposes here, those teams will be better next year, SC, while very good, won't necessarily be better than this years team.

Unfortunately for SC fans, this might have been SC's highwater mark. They could make the FF next year, but I think they had a better chance this year. I think they'll be in the top 8 and have a shot at the FF.

 

[SCGamecock]

Well nothing is a guarantee, heck we could have a zombie apocalypse and there won't be a WBB season next year. But for the purposes here, those teams will be better next year, SC, while very good, won't necessarily be better than this years team.

Unfortunately for SC fans, this might have been SC's highwater mark. They could make the FF next year, but I think they had a better chance this year. I think they'll be in the top 8 and have a shot at the FF.

Meh, it's still a good highwater mark for a young program. People so easily forget that this was SC's first time making it to the final four. Our program is still VERY young. We literally just won the SEC for the 2nd time in school history. While it would've been nice to win it all this year, we didn't. Whereas, getting to the final four and losing would've been unacceptable for UCONN at this point. It's all new to us and we're happy to even be in the conversation. Our expectations for WBB will increase as Dawn bring them to us. We may or may not make it back next year. Most SC fans, myself included think we will. Either way, we know we have a good coach, great facilities that are getting better, a hungry fanbase that's growing to love WBB and a school dedicated to being a winner in the sport.

This season may be the highwater mark for the short term but I KNOW it won't be for the long term. We'll get back to the final four eventually. Heck, we may even win it all one day. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I'd take that bet since the game is in Columbia.

Your constant refrain. Well, Hail Columbia. I don't think you understand how UConn feeds off negative energy.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I don't think it's a guarantee that ANY team will be better, and that includes UCONN.. even with the class they're bringing in. I think a lot of UCONN fans undervalue how good this 2014-2015 team was just to prove the point that they'll keep getting better year after year.. UCONN's 2014-2015 team was really good and KML was special, she won't be easily replaced, even by Samuelson. Before UCONN fans attack me with a list of their plethora of 3-point shooters, take notice that I said "easily". Sure, you'll always have shooters but finding somebody as automatic as KML, good luck. She was a gem. Nobody knows for certain that Samuelson will be as automatic as KML her freshmen year.

SC "only brought in a PG from Canada" and may not scream final four team to most of you.. but I don't think anybody wants SC in their regional as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year.

Tennessee, Duke and Baylor getting better isn't just a problem for SC, it's a problem for everybody. Personally, I think Tennessee and Baylor will have final four talent next year and be able to compete with UCONN. Tennessee is just missing a dominating post and if Warlick lands Akhator and gets this team to gel then look out.... and by "look out" I mean everybody.. even UCONN.

Well everyone is getting better in general, but it has been UConn lately and then a big gap to the next level.... and I think presumably that will fill in relatively soon..... you guys have a good team.... the few times I saw you play last year I expected a bit better..... the Duke game, the NCAA UNC game.... where I had thought you would distance yourselves from them..... cause they are not a really good team.... but it took some last minute luck for you to get past them......

and your note about if Holly lands that recruit..... I don't have a lot of faith in Holly's abilities to coach in general, aside from her defensive prowess..... and I do not vest faith in players who have not played a minute of college ball..... reputations can only go so far... Elizabeth Williams was supposed to signal a new time of superiority for Duke..... Griner was supposed to spell domination for Baylor... so let's see what happens if she does get her prized recruit.

 

[SCGamecock]

I do not vest faith in players who have not played a minute of college ball..... reputations can only go so far...

THIS.

 

[CocoHusky]

but I don't think anybody wants SC in their regional as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year.

I don't think South Carolina wants to see South Carolina as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year in a region either. That would be a step backwards considering that they were #1 seeds the prior two years.

 

[SCGamecock]

I don't think South Carolina wants to see South Carolina as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year in a region either. That would be a step backwards considering that they were #1 seeds the prior two years.

Well of course not, but if we're only as good as a lot of the posters here think.. then that's a strong 2 seed or 3 seed team.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

OK, let's look at the starting lineup for SC next year. 1 - Khadijah Sessions with more experience = better, 2 - Tiffany Mitchell with more experience = better, 3 - Most likely Asia Dozier with more experience = better, 4 - Most likely A'ja Wilson will start, replacing Aleighsa Welch. Not as much leadership, but a higher upside. I'll call it equal, 5 - Alaina Coates will replace Elem Ibiam = better. Overall, the starting lineup will be better and more experienced.

Position backups: 1 - Bianca Cuevas with more experience = better, Shay Colley = unknown 2 - Tina Roy with more experience = better, Kaydra Duckett = unknown, Doniyay Cliney = unknown, 3 - Tina Roy, and A'ja Wilson = even, 4 - Jatarie White = unknown (highly recruited, but ill or hurt most of 2014-15), 5 - Jatarie White = unknown.

My analysis: The starting five will be undoubtedly better and the bench probably won't be quite as good due to too many unknowns. I think the starters will certainly play more minutes than last season, which is probably fine. Dawn may still sign another player this spring, but that isn't definite. Starting 3 seniors, a junior and a sophomore who played extensively as a freshman is a pretty experienced bunch. Keep in mind that our most highly recruited players were all freshman and sophomores in 2014-15. I know being a McDonald's All-American in high school is not the end all and be all for recruiting, but 3 of ours were freshmen in 14-15 and 1 was a sophomore. IMO, with the most talented players having more experience it will be a huge plus. I expect to be a 1 seed again and return to the Final Four. I just hope it's somewhere besides Indianapolis.

 

[meyers7]

I don't think South Carolina wants to see South Carolina as a 2 seed or 3 seed next year in a region either.

 

[CocoHusky]

My analysis: The starting five will be undoubtedly better and the bench probably won't be quite as good due to too many unknowns. I think the starters will certainly play more minutes than last season, which is probably fine. Dawn may still sign another player this spring, but that isn't definite. Starting 3 seniors, a junior and a sophomore who played extensively as a freshman is a pretty experienced bunch. Keep in mind that our most highly recruited players were all freshman and sophomores in 2014-15. I know being a McDonald's All-American in high school is not the end all and be all for recruiting, but 3 of ours were freshmen in 14-15 and 1 was a sophomore. IMO, with the most talented players having more experience it will be a huge plus. I expect to be a 1 seed again and return to the Final Four. I just hope it's somewhere besides Indianapolis.

Your analysis ignores what IMO are South Carolina's fatal flaws one of which cannnot be fix by anyone on the current roster. The fatal flaws are:1) Lack of perimeter shooting 2) Lack of a cohesive "layered" team defensive scheme. Relative to your 2014-15 McDonald's All-American the best among them (Cuevas) in comparison to fatal flaw #1 shot only 37% overall and 22% from 3 point line. Roy is a good 3 point shooter @ 39% put some what predictable. 119 of her 152 shot attempts were from behind the three point line so the defense knows exactly where she is going to be. She has not shown the ability to fake the three and drive to the basket in a productive way because her percentage from 2 point range is identical to her shooting from 3 Point range. You also do not have a post player on the roster to draw attention in the post and kick to players on the perimeter. Minus Mitchell your shooting percentage from the guard positions are very pedestrian 41%-Dozier, 40%-Sessions 38%-Roy, Cuevas-37%. Until this gets corrected the game plan aginst South Carolina will be to limit Mitchell on the perimeter and defend the paint. Go back and look at the Kentucky game and it is embarassing how much of the game Kentucky had all 5 defenders with a foot in the paint.
South Carolina has some good individual defenders on th perimeter in Gaines, Mitchell, & Sessions. Coates, Ibiam, and Wilson are good rim protectectors but the defense is not cohesive. When you get a blow by on the perimeter the the help is rarely in place. Another thing that needs to be more of a coaching emphasis is that South Carolina is not playing to the new rules about 1 touch on the perimeter. There have been a few big games (UNC, ND) where multiple tic tac fouls on the perimeter have put South Carolina in early foul trouble.
South Carolina players and Dawn are looking at the refs to stop making those calls when the damage has already been done. This is correctable with practice & emphasis but the whining accomplishes nothing.

 

[Bill In Georgia]

I think a lot of that has to do with Duke flying under the radar in the ACC this year... with Notre Dame and FSU leading the way, the ACC was a force to be reckoned with so a lot of really good teams, like Duke/UNC, were just not talked about a lot this past season. I watched A LOT of WBB but I still only watched two games played by Duke. I watched our 1 point victory over Duke and then I watched the Duke/UNC game..

From the little bit I have seen of Stevens though, I agree, she's a big time player. Players like her are nightmares.. big post/forward players that are really good from behind the arc. FSU has a player like that too, can't remember her name but she's REALLY good. I agree with what you said about Wilson. She had more trouble than a lot of high level players in her class adjusting to the speed of the game. Players like Mitchell, Turner, Stevens etc adjusted well and a lot faster than Wilson did. Wilson spent so much time this year just learning her role and the defense that her offense took a backseat for the most part. If you look at a lot of our early games you can see Wilson looking lost and literally being directed by Coates as to where she should go on the floor (another reason she didn't start).. Sure, Dawn could've started Wilson and just let her make stuff up and out talent people on the floor but that's not really Dawn's style. Wilson coming off the bench gave her time to adjust to the game and it allowed Coates to be there to direct her. As the season got late, you saw Coates coming out of the paint less to direct Wilson and you saw Wilson more comfortable with the game speed and her role (and you saw her playing better).

This summer will be important for Wilson because now.. she knows the defense, she's witnessed the speed of the game, she's played in the final four... now she knows where her offense needs to be in order to play the best she can. She's gone up against the Loyds, Stewarts, Tucks, etc.. so she knows how her game should look. I would love for Wilson to just watch tape on Stewart all summer and model her game after her. Wilson is a forward that wants to be a guard, and Dawn told her if she wants to be a guard then she has to put in the work.. so hopefully this summer she does that.. and knowing her, she will.

I think a lot of that has to do with Duke flying under the radar in the ACC this year... with Notre Dame and FSU leading the way, the ACC was a force to be reckoned with so a lot of really good teams, like Duke/UNC, were just not talked about a lot this past season. I watched A LOT of WBB but I still only watched two games played by Duke. I watched our 1 point victory over Duke and then I watched the Duke/UNC game..

From the little bit I have seen of Stevens though, I agree, she's a big time player. Players like her are nightmares.. big post/forward players that are really good from behind the arc. FSU has a player like that too, can't remember her name but she's REALLY good. I agree with what you said about Wilson. She had more trouble than a lot of high level players in her class adjusting to the speed of the game. Players like Mitchell, Turner, Stevens etc adjusted well and a lot faster than Wilson did. Wilson spent so much time this year just learning her role and the defense that her offense took a backseat for the most part. If you look at a lot of our early games you can see Wilson looking lost and literally being directed by Coates as to where she should go on the floor (another reason she didn't start).. Sure, Dawn could've started Wilson and just let her make stuff up and out talent people on the floor but that's not really Dawn's style. Wilson coming off the bench gave her time to adjust to the game and it allowed Coates to be there to direct her. As the season got late, you saw Coates coming out of the paint less to direct Wilson and you saw Wilson more comfortable with the game speed and her role (and you saw her playing better).

This summer will be important for Wilson because now.. she knows the defense, she's witnessed the speed of the game, she's played in the final four... now she knows where her offense needs to be in order to play the best she can. She's gone up against the Loyds, Stewarts, Tucks, etc.. so she knows how her game should look. I would love for Wilson to just watch tape on Stewart all summer and model her game after her. Wilson is a forward that wants to be a guard, and Dawn told her if she wants to be a guard then she has to put in the work.. so hopefully this summer she does that.. and knowing her, she will.

If you can just keep Wilson from primping for the camera, and begin wearing uniforms that fit ..she will be OK ..but NOT a barn burner.
Dawn needs to get the kids out of the Robot steps, seems they run down the court and then line up in drill formation, then try and execute....UG!!
Sure they will beat up the SEC this year, and are a top ten team, but in the top five they are less than a 50/50 team!!!

 

[Bayareahusky]

THIS.

I feel like i have missed something.... do not know what this means..... but i have 2 beliefs that are not necessarily in concert with everyone else..... one is that the "Top 25" or "Top 10" in WCBB means next to nothing because of the lack of depth. Same for making the "Sweet 16" or the "Elite 8" ... It is just not that tough to do this..... (expect blowback for that comment , but I stand by it)

and the other thing is people anoint recruits queens even before they play a minute of college ball..... nobody knows how Samuelson will transition to the college game.... how will Durr do at LVille? Dunno. How will Diamond do at Tenn? Very well, cause we saw her play at UNC.....

And of course part of question of how they will perform is tied into how will they be coached.....

 

[SCGamecock]

I feel like i have missed something.... do not know what this means.....

It's basically just a way of saying "I really agree with you" haha.. Sorry, I'm a millennial.