Charl. Gazzette WVU, UofL (as was TCU only schools being seriously discussed

[The Funster]

Or, maybe football does drive the bus but that doesn't mean that finding the strongest team on the field is what is driving the football decisions. The XII might reasonably make this decision entirely on football, but might want a team closer geographically and might want a team that is not going to be as big a threat on the field as WVU.

Yep. Building a strong, deep conference could hurt when it comes time to getting bowl bids. Probably smarter to bring in a lesser team that the upper tier can beat on a bit.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Or, maybe football does drive the bus but that doesn't mean that finding the strongest team on the field is what is driving the football decisions. The XII might reasonably make this decision entirely on football, but might want a team closer geographically and might want a team that is not going to be as big a threat on the field as WVU.

So getting football teams that won't win once they are in their new leagues is the criteria. I clearly missed that as a driving force of realignment. Let's see, of the three likely departures, one is mediocre (Pitt) and two pretty much suck (Louisville and Syracuse). All three should meet your criteria.

Oh, i forgot to point out that all 3 could be Top 10 preseason in basketball, and Louisville and Syracuse are two of the best basketball programs of all time. But getting football programs that are not that good is the primary decision making factor. Got it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Yep. Building a strong, deep conference could hurt when it comes time to getting bowl bids. Probably smarter to bring in a lesser team that the upper tier can beat on a bit.

So if UConn does worse in football, does that increase our chances of getting into the ACC?

 

[businesslawyer]

So if UConn does worse in football, does that increase our chances of getting into the ACC?

Yes. Because the fact that the Big XII has a goal metaphysically means that the ACC must have the same goal. Conferences aren't allowed to have different plans, desires and criteria for expansion because it interferes with your one liners and oversimplifications.

 

[The Funster]

So if UConn does worse in football, does that increase our chances of getting into the ACC?

Seriously, are you really that daft? He was talking about the Big 12 and not the ACC. If you need to equivocate in order to support your talking points perhaps you should re-evaluate your talking points.

 

[arnie3]

I don't think the BB's would really leave. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot and they are just beginning to realize it.

I think there may be a legal issue for the name BE, too. UConn would be the only FBS that is an original member of the BE. If it comes to this, it will be a sad day!

 

[ctchamps]

Yep. Building a strong, deep conference could hurt when it comes time to getting bowl bids. Probably smarter to bring in a lesser team that the upper tier can beat on a bit.

If that's the case the FSU booster and FSU would love to have UConn. Maybe after their hugely disappointing season they would want UConn. Of course after UConn beats them in Atlantis FSU will want Rutgers.

 

[The Funster]

If that's the case the FSU booster and FSU would love to have UConn. Maybe after their hugely disappointing season they would want UConn. Of course after UConn beats them in Atlantis FSU will want Rutgers.

I guess the fact that I quoted a post that referenced the Big 12 and not the ACC is a little confusing. I was talking about the Big 12. FWIW, the ACC is quite top heavy and has its fair share of lesser teams with at least one, possibly two, joining from the BE.

 

[ctchamps]

I guess the fact that I quoted a post that referenced the Big 12 and not the ACC is a little confusing. I was talking about the Big 12. FWIW, the ACC is quite top heavy and has its fair share of lesser teams with at least one, possibly two, joining from the BE.

I wasn't flaming with you.

So many ideas are floating everywhere, and people, stuck on logic, are missing the emotional part of all this. An FSU booster stated he probably wouldn't want UConn because of its "weak" football footprint. But he would have to learn more before making a decision.

I took your statement and ran with it about FSU. Some of us think FSU is one of the schools blocking UConn's entry into the ACC. And maybe they did.

At the time of the vote for expansion FSU was riding high with its football program They aren't feeling good about their football currently. So they might be reconsidering teams like UConn and Rutgers, because they overestimated the strength of their football program. They may have had delusions of grandeur initially but have come down to earth recently.

If I'm correct, logic is not driving the decisions. Emotions are. But you don't have to go very far and see how many emotions are behind all the arguments being presented in this forum. People are presenting "facts" to support their emotional preferences more than just presenting "facts" without any preference.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Nelson - Are you 12? When Louisville came on board with Petrino, they were one of the most exciting teams in Big East. Consistantly near the top, highly ranked and with great non-conference wins as well. They expanded their stadium and I really liked were they were going... before hiring Kragthorpe. I will admit, they have not been the same the last 4 years since that awful hire, but to state that Louisville has been one of the two worst football progrmas in the Big East since realignement is short sited and ignorant. I would go as far as to say that the first 3 or 4 years after 2003, it was their record and rankings that probably helped retain our BCS status.

I hate to have to defend him, and I'm sure he doesn't want it, but wouldn't the Big XII be taking the current weak non-Petrino Louisville? Sure they have potential...every school does. K-State used to be the doormat of the league.

Football isn't everything. You need decent teams, not always great ones. The Big XII would like to upgrade basketball as well, especially if they lose Mizzou, who was decent at both. Louisville basketball is the most profitable hoops team in the country according to reports I've seen, and beats many BCS football teams. West Virginia is just too far removed from the base of the conference unless they took all three and went to 12.

 

[The Funster]

I wasn't flaming with you.

So many ideas are floating everywhere, and people, stuck on logic, are missing the emotional part of all this. An FSU booster stated he probably wouldn't want UConn because of its "weak" football footprint. But he would have to learn more before making a decision.

I took your statement and ran with it about FSU. Some of us think FSU is one of the schools blocking UConn's entry into the ACC. And maybe they did.

At the time of the vote for expansion FSU was riding high with its football program They aren't feeling good about their football currently. So they might be reconsidering teams like UConn and Rutgers, because they overestimated the strength of their football program. They may have had delusions of grandeur initially but have come down to earth recently.

If I'm correct, logic is not driving the decisions. Emotions are. But you don't have to go very far and see how many emotions are behind all the arguments being presented in this forum. People are presenting "facts" to support their emotional preferences more than just presenting "facts" without any preference.

No sweat fleud, didn't think you were. As far as logic and decisions I think the three most secure conferences (Pac, SEC & B1G) are proceeding logically. The Big 12 sucked it up and kept it's head but it's still very unstable. The Big East is just covering it's ass and of all the conferences, the ACC has acted the most emotionally and thus the least illogically. I'll get crap for that I have little respect for how the ACC has conducted itself

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Since realignment Louisville also has a BCS Bowl win, a top ten finish and a top 25 finish. As we have equal conference and head to head records over the same time frame, I think they win the tiebreaker.

Also, if a six year window is all that an athletic program can be measured on, half of the catholic members are lesser men's hoops programs than VCU, George Mason, possibly also Cornell, St Mary's, Davidson, Western Kentucky,...

 

[Druken Friar]

If Missouri leaves, and the Big 12 adds WVU and UL as the "only teams being discussed", that is 11 teams, not 12. Math is hard.

Knowledge is good.

 

[Druken Friar]

I wanted to see if Waylon's suggestion that Louisville and Syracuse were the two worst schools in football since the merger. I didn't doubt Syracuse, but I remembered Louisville being a football addition we were all excited about. He's right, although they are far more competitive than, say, Syracuse, and, unlike USF and Rutgers, have been to a BCS bowl game. Unlike UConn, they have won a BE title outright.

Anyway, below are their records from 2005-2010, followed by an overall standings.

Louisville:

2005: 5-2
2006: 6-1
2007: 3-4
2008: 1-6
2009: 1-6
2010: 3-4

Total: 19-23
Ave. Season: 3-4

Syracuse:

2005: 0-7
2006: 1-6
2007: 1-6
2008: 1-6
2009: 1-6
2010: 4-3

Total: 8-34
Ave. Season: 1-6

Pitt:

2005: 4-3
2006: 2-5
2007: 3-4
2008: 5-2
2009: 5-2
2010: 5-2

Total: 24-18
Ave. Season: 4-3

Connecticut:

2005: 2-5
2006: 1-6
2007: 5-2
2008: 3-4
2009: 3-4
2010: 5-2

Total: 19-23
Ave. Season: 3-4

Cincy:

2005: 2-5
2006: 4-3
2007: 4-3
2008: 6-1
2009: 7-0
2010: 2-5

Total: 25-17
Ave. Season: 4-3

West Virginia:

2005: 7-0
2006: 5-2
2007: 5-2
2008: 5-2
2009: 5-2
2010: 5-2

Total: 32-10
Average: 5-2

Rutgers:

2005: 4-3
2006: 5-2
2007: 3-4
2008: 5-2
2009: 3-4
2010: 1-6

Total: 21-21
Average: 3.5-3.5

USF:

2005: 4-3
2006: 4-3
2007: 4-3
2008: 2-5
2009: 3-4
2010: 3-4

Total:20-22
Average: 3-4

BE Standings Since the Merger*:

1. West Virginia 32-10 .762 W%
2. Cincinnati 25-17 .595 (7 GB)
3. Pittsburgh 24-18 .571 (8 GB)
4. Rutgers 21-21 .500 (11 GB)
5. USF 20-22 .476 (12 GB)
6. UConn** 19-23 .452 (13 GB)
7. Louisville 19-23 .452 (13 GB)
8. Syracuse 8-34 .190 (24 GB)

*This seasons records are not counted. If they were, UConn ties USF at 20-24, and therefore jump to #5 due to more league titles. That's the only notable difference.

**Tie goes to UConn for tying for two league titles as opposed to Louisville's one.

Was this really needed? Everyone know the Cuse football men are a gaggle of heathens trying to f...k a football. The ACC will be trying to give em back in a year. No refunds I say.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

I believe it all has to do with bargaining power re: tv contracts and football drives that bus. It's not about hoops. It's not about football either, it's about television $$$. Football just happens to be the vehicle that gets you there. WVU gets hurt as an expansion candidate because they're not close to any major market. Morgantown is sort of near Pittsburgh but you have to compete there with Pitt. The questions I keep hearing about UConn re: expansion candidacy is what market they bring. I personally don't know one way or the other as to the answer of that question, so I don't have an opinion. Just saying that seems to be the true issue because that's where the real $$$ is. Boise is an expansion candidate for the BE because they don't want to lose their AQ status - that's the major issue facing BE football. The other conferences are not facing this threat and therefore have different motivating forces.

Mandel's column sort of addresses this issue (the Q&A about the PAC12/Colorado/Utah). Say what you will about the guy but I think his analysis is usually pretty good.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...conferences/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a5

 

[SAMCRO]

Is it what market a teams bring (meaning they own that market), or what market does a team get you in to. UConn owns CT (for those in CT that are interested in CFB), has penetration/exposure into New England and NYC. We don't own NYC (no one team owns NYC) or New England (well, we kinda own N.E. which is why Flipper has piss running down his leg), but we get conferences/teams in to the NYC and N.E. television markets.

That, along with our already established and succesful athletics program (competitive in FB, dominant in BB, and dominant to solid in all other sports), and our solid and quickly ascending acedemic profile is what will see us through this in the long run. Key word is long run.

 

[metsfan2323]

Connecticut:

2005: 2-5
2006: 1-6
2007: 5-2
2008: 3-4
2009: 3-4
2010: 5-2

Total: 19-23
Ave. Season: 3-4

.

Maryland fired the Fridge for this? Average season 3-4. If P wins two more games he will have achieved par with a walkon QB and a 170 pound freshman rb.

 

[Dann]

Maryland fired the Fridge for this? Average season 3-4. If P wins two more games he will have achieved par with a walkon QB and a 170 pound freshman rb.

exactly, the future here is bright and it just blows my mind that considering what we have to play with this year(not trying to diss the players), ppl here are already all over PP.

 

[businesslawyer]

exactly, the future here is bright and it just blows my mind that considering what we have to play with this year(not trying to diss the players), ppl here are already all over PP.

You forgot to say "no offense."

 

[Dann]

You forgot to say "no offense."

sorry bl, i will next time. just trying to be real with it.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If this is about market, then wouldn't the rank be something like this:

1) Rutgers - NYC
2) UConn - wealthy state with no competition, access to NYC
3) USF - Tampa/St. Pete
4) Pitt
5) Cincinnati
6) Louisville
7) Syracuse
8) WVU

Why were #4, 6 and 7 picked first? (Hint: they also happen to be 2, 3 and 4 in hoops, and taking them away from the Big East will damage the Big East where it is strongest).

 

[BlueMAB]

If this is about market, then wouldn't the rank be something like this:

You've been pushing UMass and Houston because of their markets, what changed your mind?

 

[The Funster]

UConn is (2) and could have gotten a hold on (1) but apparently BC (no market) helped nix us in favor of (4). The ACC has been the least logical expansion, IMO. The Big 12 mess may top even that, though

 

[CTMike]

Here's what I came up with as points of reference for market DMAs

Rutgers 1 New York 7,515,330
USF 14 Tampa/St. Pete 1,795,200
Pitt 24 Pittsburgh 1,160,820
Uconn 30 Hartford/NH 1,018,770
Cincinatti 33 Cincinatti 923,830
Louisville 50 Louisville 674,940
West Virginia 64 Charleston/Huntington 505,200
Syracuse 82 Syracuse 389,970

It's not perfect for several obvious reasons. There ain't 7,515,330 households that want to watch Rutgirls football on TV. UConn might very well draw nearly as many eyeballs in that market. Same with Syracuse. And it doesn't consider that fans spread multiple DMAs (I think Morgantown is technically in Pittsburgh's DMA). And, in general, more eyeballs watch football in the south, and in general more eyeballs watch basketball in the northeast (was it a New Yorker article recently that confirmed it? I forget). Anyway, just throwing it out there.