Caught Between Eras

[Sphinx]

I go back a long way in following UConn basketball. As a kid in February 1954, I was fast by my radio as Worthy Patterson hit the shot that beat 4th-ranked Holy Cross at the Worcester Auditorium. It was that shot, that game, that 23-3 season that gave UConn fans their first taste of "national recognition."

From then to now, there have been three "golden eras" in UConn basketball, each with a legendary coach, each with a subsequent down period in which fans pretty much thought it was all over. The common denominator in each down period was the hiring of a homegrown coach, an ex-UConn player who got the job with little or no coaching experience.

First, the legendaries. Under Hugh Greer, UConn went from a cow college to the preeminent basketball power among New England state universities. They became king of the Yankee Conference.

Under Dee Rowe, UConn became a true regional power, achieving peer status with the elite schools of New England -- Providence, Holy Cross and BC. It was that status that earned them entry to the Big East.

Under Jim Calhoun, the story indeed became legend.

But, in between, came the down periods -- and they ring with similarity. Greer's successor, Fred Shabel, had three good years, based solely on his inheriting two standout Greer recruits -- Toby Kimball and Wes Bialosuknia. When those two left, Shabel (no dummy) left also. The school, burnt by Shabel, opted for loyalty and went with UConn grad and ex-player Burr Carlson. Under Carlson, the team began a downward spiral that ended with a 19-loss season (the last 0-2 start came in Carlson's last year, 1968.)

The school then reached beyond its gates to bring in Dee Rowe. But when Rowe opted for the front office, the school again went to its own, tabbing ex-player Dom Perno. Like Shabel before him, Perno benefited from the legacy of a great coach. He inherited Corny Thompson and Mike McKay from Rowe's recruiting efforts. But after a few passable years, his teams, like Carlson's, began a downward spiral.

Enter Calhoun. Exit Calhoun. Enter UConn grad and ex-player Kevin Ollie. Enter Calhoun recruits Napier, Daniels, Boatright, Giffey. Rinse and Repeat - initial success, then deterioration.

Do we now enter another downward spiral under a coach selected not because of his coaching credentials but because of his previous affiliation with the school? One might hopefully think otherwise if it were not so traceable a pattern in the team's history.

 

[Matrim55]

Great history lesson and a useful perspective -- even if I disagree with the ultimate conclusion.

If, next year, after back-to-back top 10 recruiting classes and a solid, 3-man junior class (JA, TL, SE) we're not a top 15 team, I'll start to buy the idea that Ollie has us in a nosedive.

But this year comes after we lost our 3 best players from last season, and after three straight years of losing our best player each year. You can't make up for that unless you're repeatedly landing STACKED classes, and we weren't. From 2012-2015 our classes were either subpar or patchwork.

So this is the price we've paid, and this is our time in the desert. We're going to have a truly bad season -- our worst since 86-87 -- but it'll just be one season, not a downward spiral.

 

[mauconnfan]

I'm with Matrim here although very thoughtful post from another somewhat old timer.

We can't forget, and some have, that KO won a NC. Yeah with "JC's guy" but these guys weren't his biggest contributors instead all of these guys did get better in 2 years under KO's tutelage. The guy can coach, can he recruit the players he needs to work with his style? That would seem to be the only question to me. He started his recruiting days with a knock on the program and had to settle for less than UConn-like players early on and is now paying for that mess I believe. Time will tell I guess.

 

[80shusky]

Great post, thank you.

 

[freescooter]

Like you I've seen at least part of all those eras ( well not really Greer and Carlson , but I think that is a reasonable take. I was never a great fan of the Ollie hire. He had no coaching experience. Seemingly his only qualification was he was a UConn guy and a Calhoun guy. With luck in another year we will look outside again and return to relevance.

 

[gtcam]

Wow, there's someone here older than me!!!
Great history and I go back to 1965
KO is different than Shabel, Carlson and Perno. Those guys couldn't/didn't recruit on a national level. As Mau said, KO had to wade through the ramifications of the crap show at the end of JCs tenure and as we see from the recent graduation rate returns, it ain't fixed yet. Don't get me wrong, I idolize JC but when you are the best in the best conference, sometimes things slip thru the crack.
I think Ko needs to turn this around in the next 2 years, He has shown he can recruit, can relate to the players NOW its time for an effective system on the floor
I have faith
THANKS AGAIN Sphinx

 

[Sphinx]

After a little research, I feel I have to amend my original post. A few facts need alignment.

First, both Carlson and Perno were high school coaches before becoming UConn assistants. It is inaccurate to say they had little or no prior coaching experience.

Should I have said, no prior college coaching experience? Well, both Greer and Rowe had no prior college experience, so it would hardly prove my point.

What's left is this -- a personal, subjective view that Carlson, Perno and Ollie got their jobs because they were "family," not because of their coaching credentials, and that the Carlson/Perno record does not augur well for KO. That's all it is -- a subjective view.

Also, turns out that Thompson and McKay committed to UConn while Perno was already head coach, so whatever Dee Rowe's influence in it, they were legitimately Dom Perno's recruits.

Sorry, Dom. Sorry, Burr. Sorry, Boneyard. As to future posting, I will adhere to the advice I once gave a student: "It is better to stand there with a blank look on your face than to utter words to that effect."

 

[Matrim55]

After a little research, I feel I have to amend my original post. A few facts need alignment.

First, both Carlson and Perno were high school coaches before becoming UConn assistants. It is inaccurate to say they had little or no prior coaching experience.

Should I have said, no prior college coaching experience? Well, both Greer and Rowe had no prior college experience, so it would hardly prove my point.

What's left is this -- a personal, subjective view that Carlson, Perno and Ollie got their jobs because they were "family," not because of their coaching credentials, and that the Carlson/Perno record does not augur well for KO. That's all it is -- a subjective view.

Also, turns out that Thompson and McKay committed to UConn while Perno was already head coach, so whatever Dee Rowe's influence in it, they were legitimately Dom Perno's recruits.

Sorry, Dom. Sorry, Burr. Sorry, Boneyard. As to future posting, I will adhere to the advice I once gave a student: "It is better to stand there with a blank look on your face than to utter words to that effect."

Meh, you should post more. This has been the most level-headed and enjoyable thread anybody's started in the last month.

 

[intlzncster]

But this year comes after we lost our 3 best players from last season, and after three straight years of losing our best player each year. You can't make up for that unless you're repeatedly landing STACKED classes, and we weren't. From 2012-2015 our classes were either subpar or patchwork.

I've been banging this drum for a while now, and do every time we lose a large number of significant guys. And it's not backwards rationalization based on currently results. I just look at history with similar situations, and the team usually swallows the bit. As much as we want sophomore PGs to be ready to go, they often aren't. Heck, two of our best PGs (players) ever were pretty average as sophs (Kemba/Shabazz).

And my ultimate fall back is, no great PG, no great team.

Oh, and @Sphinx , good stuff with your posts.

 

[LIUCHusky]

I go back a long way in following UConn basketball. As a kid in February 1954, I was fast by my radio as Worthy Patterson hit the shot that beat 4th-ranked Holy Cross at the Worcester Auditorium. It was that shot, that game, that 23-3 season that gave UConn fans their first taste of "national recognition."

From then to now, there have been three "golden eras" in UConn basketball, each with a legendary coach, each with a subsequent down period in which fans pretty much thought it was all over. The common denominator in each down period was the hiring of a homegrown coach, an ex-UConn player who got the job with little or no coaching experience.

First, the legendaries. Under Hugh Greer, UConn went from a cow college to the preeminent basketball power among New England state universities. They became king of the Yankee Conference.

Under Dee Rowe, UConn became a true regional power, achieving peer status with the elite schools of New England -- Providence, Holy Cross and BC. It was that status that earned them entry to the Big East.

Under Jim Calhoun, the story indeed became legend.

But, in between, came the down periods -- and they ring with similarity. Greer's successor, Fred Shabel, had three good years, based solely on his inheriting two standout Greer recruits -- Toby Kimball and Wes Bialosuknia. When those two left, Shabel (no dummy) left also. The school, burnt by Shabel, opted for loyalty and went with UConn grad and ex-player Burr Carlson. Under Carlson, the team began a downward spiral that ended with a 19-loss season (the last 0-2 start came in Carlson's last year, 1968.)

The school then reached beyond its gates to bring in Dee Rowe. But when Rowe opted for the front office, the school again went to its own, tabbing ex-player Dom Perno. Like Shabel before him, Perno benefited from the legacy of a great coach. He inherited Corny Thompson and Mike McKay from Rowe's recruiting efforts. But after a few passable years, his teams, like Carlson's, began a downward spiral.

Enter Calhoun. Exit Calhoun. Enter UConn grad and ex-player Kevin Ollie. Enter Calhoun recruits Napier, Daniels, Boatright, Giffey. Rinse and Repeat - initial success, then deterioration.

Do we now enter another downward spiral under a coach selected not because of his coaching credentials but because of his previous affiliation with the school? One might hopefully think otherwise if it were not so traceable a pattern in the team's history.

There are several factual errors in this post. Fred Shabel recruited Wes and Dom Perno recruited both Corny Thompson and Mike McKay.

 

[Matrim55]

There are several factual errors in this post. Fred Shabel recruited Wes and Dom Perno recruited both Corny Thompson and Mike McKay.

He already addressed that:

Caught Between Eras

 

[huskyharry]

Good discussion.
I am still thrilled that Coach Ollies is the HC.
He has some great qualities: national recruiter has very good momentum after being hamstrung by sanctions, good success at guard development and most importantly to me, he is a man of high character (which has helped to recruit players of high character as well).
I am confident that he is going to improve in areas that are not as strong, such as big man development and getting players to follow an effective offensive scheme.
DHam's unexpected departure has left a big void. And his skills and experience to this team and the offense would look a lot better and rebounding would improve. His early departure was unfortunate for UConn, as DD's failure to return in the 14-15 season also hurt that team.
As a result, it is going to take a while for this team to find it stride and the ceiling may be lower.
Ten toes in!

 

[UConnNick]

After a little research, I feel I have to amend my original post. A few facts need alignment.

First, both Carlson and Perno were high school coaches before becoming UConn assistants. It is inaccurate to say they had little or no prior coaching experience.

Should I have said, no prior college coaching experience? Well, both Greer and Rowe had no prior college experience, so it would hardly prove my point.

What's left is this -- a personal, subjective view that Carlson, Perno and Ollie got their jobs because they were "family," not because of their coaching credentials, and that the Carlson/Perno record does not augur well for KO. That's all it is -- a subjective view.

Also, turns out that Thompson and McKay committed to UConn while Perno was already head coach, so whatever Dee Rowe's influence in it, they were legitimately Dom Perno's recruits.

Sorry, Dom. Sorry, Burr. Sorry, Boneyard. As to future posting, I will adhere to the advice I once gave a student: "It is better to stand there with a blank look on your face than to utter words to that effect."

Regarding Carlson and Perno, the reality was that UConn in those days was trying to become what became referred to as a "public Ivy". Both of them were unable on many occasions to recruit certain players, especially in state, because they didn't meet UConn's admission standards, and the school wasn't willing to make exceptions.

It all started with Homer Babbidge, who came from an Ivy League background and was President of the university in the 1960's and early 1970's. He wanted UConn to become an attractive alternative to an Ivy League education, at a bargain price. Babbidge hired John Toner to coach the football team. Toner came to UConn from Columbia. Together they were kindred spirits in how they saw UConn's future. Then Babbidge sort of abruptly retired in the early 1970's, and we had a succession of fairly short term presidents. By then Toner had gone from football coach to AD.

One could argue that Rowe had to recruit with the same academic restraints, but was more successful. Despite Rowe's successes, we were still primarily a regional power until we finally beat Providence in 1976 to win the ECAC New England title and a berth in the NCAAs. We almost blew our first round game vs Hofstra at the Providence Civic Center. We were down by 19 points early in the 2H of that game, and had to come roaring back behind a great performance by Jeff Carr to win that game narrowly. The field was only 32 teams back then so one win put you in the Sweet 16. We went down to Greensboro and lost by about 14 points to a then unbeaten Rutgers team, with Phil Sellers and Eddie Jordan. I attended those games.

Rowe was a good coach but by no means were we outstanding or even a blip on anyone's radar outside of New England. Most of the Rowe seasons were mediocre, with two NITs and one NCAA. I suspect he retired due to a combination of factors, one of which being the same recruiting restrictions placed on the program by the Admissions office.

Things got far worse before they got better, because you couldn't succeed in the Big East unless you were willing to bend the stringent Ivy League academic aspirations a little. The Perno years reflected that. Finally when they decided to do something about the precipitous decline of the program by the mid-80's, the university administration commissioned a white paper analyzing the ills of the entire athletic dept. It was an eye opener. There was serious discussion among the Trustees about leaving the Big East. That's what caused Toner and President Casteen to revamp the entire operation and go looking for two coaches. Toner then proceeded to hit two home runs, although nobody knew it at the time. One was named Auriemma and the other Calhoun. Up until then Toner was part of the problem. He was largely an ineffectual athletic administrator, partly because he was gone from campus a lot of the time on NCAA business.

The single most important result of the white paper study was the implementation of an academic counseling office, which Ted Taigen started and administered for many years. They commited to getting the athletes the academic help they needed, in the wake of the Robinson/Gamble academic disqualification, which was a UConn, not an NCAA disqualification.

To some extent, Shabel, Carlson, Rowe and Perno all operated under pretty severe academic requirements at UConn, so each of their relative successes and failures need to be seen in that context. Ollie doesn't operate in their world anymore, and Calhoun obviously proved what can be accomplished when the strict academic requirements are bent in certain instances.

Don't get me wrong. Those of us who attended UConn in the 70's and before have benefited immensely from the enhancement in the value of our degrees. I often tell people I probably wouldn't get accepted if I applied to UConn today. It was nowhere near the academic institution it has grown to become. Babbidge set things on the right course academically and his legacy continues to this day.