Caroline Ducharme making strong first impression

[Zanzman]

Has the NCAA (Men or Women) ever had a pair of teammates each average more than 20 PPG in the same season?

Didn’t kls and Napheesa do it in 16-17 their sophomore year?

 

[Alydar]

Has the NCAA (Men or Women) ever had a pair of teammates each average more than 20 PPG in the same season?

2017 - Collier & Samuelson.

Surprised you never noticed that.

 

[hoophuskee]

Not a single poster Including you called Saylor a sharpshooter last year.

This is part of what you wrote:
" Anna and CWill were regarded as good shooters or even better - along with Evina who is pretty good- and now we consider them "worst Geno has ever had" as Geno puts it. Now These other college players are no longer someone UCONN can rely on but a H/S player who has been out of hoop for a long time is going to step in and be a super shooter for an elite WCBB program? And I'll just reiterate again I did not read she (Saylor) was sharpshooter. She was very good but not a sharpshooter. Maybe what I read is wrong. We'll see. If my skepticism proves unfounded then she may play right away in some big games but I think as me and few others have said – imo we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves in our expectation for her. But hey if she is awesome then do it!!!! "

I think they did. I think that is the EXACT reason why so many wanted her to see action. To further that- why would so many want to to put her in the rotation once she got on board and once she got her feet wet for a little bit if she wasn't one hecukuva shooter?

To think some didn't call her sharpshooter or meant it - I think very slim when even hoopgurlz when they say about her they say - "deep 3 point range offensive attack." How is it possible that no one said "sharpshooter" or derived it? To further their comment of hoopgurlz they make a phrase to paraphrase "delivering beyond the arc?" You don't think ANYONE would think she was? This type of definition from hoopgurlz and quite a few people wanting to see her in there right away - you think the word "sharpshooter" wasn't used OR meant to be used? IS that what you are picking at me on? My point was quoite a few figured she'd have a realistic shot and I never thought that. So just as there is hype now with Caroline there was hype before with Saylor. She didn't deliver "beyond the arc" which was the point why some wanted to give her a shot, right?

As for me--I'm the denier. Why would you think I would think she is a sharpshooter last year when I've said on this thread and in the past that she won't play? SO why did you bring up what I was saying form way back when the point of my posts were to disagree with those that thought she had a shot to some degree?

And tell me-- if those that felt she was available option to get time- and if she wasn't even a sharpshooter- then they were wrong to believe she could be with nay realistic chance, correct?

So again I ask-- who is Caroline going to beat out this year from Paige, Azzi, CWill, Evina and Nika? I am just asking -- who? That's all. I can see her playing if we open up a lead but if it's nip-tuck- who? OFC this team may crush teams outside the top or so this year unlike the past several. If that happens more time for several bench players.

 

[CL82]

So again I ask-- who is Caroline going to beat out this year from Paige, Azzi, CWill, Evina and Nika? I am just asking -- who?

Why does she have to "beat out" any of them to materially contribute to the team? You realize the starting five don't each play 40 minutes, right?

 

[MdStang]

I think they did. I think that is the EXACT reason why so many wanted her to see action. To further that- why would so many want to to put her in the rotation once she got on board and once she got her feet wet for a little bit if she wasn't one hecukuva shooter?

To think some didn't call her sharpshooter or meant it - I think very slim when even hoopgurlz when they say about her they say - "deep 3 point range offensive attack." How is it possible that no one said "sharpshooter" or derived it? To further their comment of hoopgurlz they make a phrase to paraphrase "delivering beyond the arc?" You don't think ANYONE would think she was? This type of definition from hoopgurlz and quite a few people wanting to see her in there right away - you think the word "sharpshooter" wasn't used OR meant to be used? IS that what you are picking at me on? My point was quoite a few figured she'd have a realistic shot and I never thought that. So just as there is hype now with Caroline there was hype before with Saylor. She didn't deliver "beyond the arc" which was the point why some wanted to give her a shot, right?

As for me--I'm the denier. Why would you think I would think she is a sharpshooter last year when I've said on this thread and in the past that she won't play? SO why did you bring up what I was saying form way back when the point of my posts were to disagree with those that thought she had a shot to some degree?

And tell me-- if those that felt she was available option to get time- and if she wasn't even a sharpshooter- then they were wrong to believe she could be with nay realistic chance, correct?

So again I ask-- who is Caroline going to beat out this year from Paige, Azzi, CWill, Evina and Nika? I am just asking -- who? That's all. I can see her playing if we open up a lead but if it's nip-tuck- who? OFC this team may crush teams outside the top or so this year unlike the past several. If that happens more time for several bench players.

Geno recruited Caroline (and Saylor) for their versatility - to plug them in at the 2 - 4 positions, mostly shooting guard and small forward. I am willing to bet Caroline subs in for Azzi and CW most of the time. Caroline is not a PG so she is not competing with Paige, Nika or Evina, but she could spell any of them as well if there is still a PG on the floor when she subs in.

 

[RockyMTblue2]

I think both Paige and Azzi will be just above 20 ppg: 20.2 and 20.1, with CW around 15 ppg, with Dorka at 11.2 ppg, and AE at 10.4 ppg, all others will be single digit averages unless the team AVERAGES >100 ppg. I'm thinking 92.73 ppg...

I knew you were Carnac in disquise.

 

[hoophuskee]

So what you are basically saying is not only shouldn't Ducharme play this year, she shouldn't play next year either. And you say this based on another player, who was injured, getting off to a rough start. I'm sorry I just can't reach you.

ADD: I hope you're right she is a superstar as a frosh. And for the record, I never said this or anything close to this. I hate when people quote you incorrectly, then comment on their own misquote. It's bad faith.

Where did you pick up that I said/or projected that based on my prior comments that she shouldn't play next year? Becuase if we are going to talk about next year then the 2 /3 possibly three players I referred that are ahead of her at least two will be gone and they are backcourt players; CWill and Evina. They are gone next year. CD is in perfect position next year. CD will have the soph jump to boot. But - please I'm not being accusatory - but where did you deduce the underlined from?

As far as the superstar comment. I'll PM you.

 

[Rb335]

I think Ducharme's biggest asset is her outside shot, something that wasn't our strong suit as a team last season. Geno seems to talk positively about incoming freshman when he needs to build their confidence because they offer something that fills a team need. That is how I interpret this. Our team is very deep and experienced. With the addition of Fudd, we will have another very strong presence from the perimeter. I see Ducharme as a nice role player getting about 8 mpg, with the green light to shoot from deep. At some point in her career, I think she will be a big part of the rotation. But this year, PB, NM, , CW, EW, ONO, DJ, and AE are probably all before her. That doesn't even mention Griffin.

 

[hoophuskee]

Why does she have to "beat out" any of them to materially contribute to the team? You realize the starting five don't each play 40 minutes, right?

I feel CD is a wing.

In big games-- based on what Paige and Azzi are projected- they would get about 35 minutes right? And CWill will get about 30, right? Even if things are little off with one - but overall these are UCONN's probable three premiere players and you could see the 3 overall average 99-100 minutes, right (and what happens if I count Evina in this mix?)? Between these 3 premiere players they get 100 of 120 minutes between the 1-3 positions. That leaves 20 minutes at the 1-3 positions between Evina, and Nika (and CD). I can't see all 3 splitting these 20 minutes this early in in projecting preseason to season..

At these 1-3 positions in big games, where do you see CD getting more than just smidgen minutes? Evina's minutes at the PF are probably going to go down- so that means she will play more minutes at the 1-3. If she moves to the pg then that means Paige or CW go to the SF. To maximize the offense on this team - wouldn't Geno want to keep two of his premiere 3 in the game at all times in the big games?

And how much is Evina going to play at PG if she isn't "defending the PF spot?" But now that we have Dorka- - how many minutes will Evina have to defend the PF spot? She's a WNBA prospect - she is going to play and at least as of right now not sparing minutes. The more Evina's minutes are taken away at "defending" the PF spot- the more the 1-3 positions become more exceedingly loaded.

I don't see how CD can break into "this monster" at the 1-3 positions as a frosh in big games unless injuries come about. - It's this year only. But its a monster.

 

[Stymie]

It remains to be seen how good CD can be. If you look at her play in a vacuum, she looks little like an elite hoops player - a bit gawky and awkward. Then you watch her in actual games - she's good at everything, and great at scoring.

Superstar? Those are terms generally reserved for Dee, Sue, Tina, Maya, Stewie, Paige, and probably Azzi. But really really good? I think she can be every bit as good as Phee or Lou were in college. Will she be? No idea. But IMHO she has the potential.

BTW - you won't be able to judge any of the players not named Azzi and Paige based on scoring/assists, etc. This team is so loaded with talent that it's doubtful anyone eclipses 20 PPG average. So I don't think it's a question of her breaking into the lineup in a big way as a freshman. But I have no idea how Geno will distribute the minutes this season. A problem I'm not sure he's ever had an before - almost too much talent.

Maybe the players will have a little more left in the tank after the sweet 16 if Coach doesn’t feel the need to win Big East games by 40-50 points.
Play ‘em all and spread the minutes.
Try and keep some legs fresh; players healed and healthy.

 

[CL82]

I feel CD is a wing.

In big games-- based on what Paige and Azzi are projected- they would get about 35 minutes right? And CWill will get about 30, right? Even if things are little off with one - but overall these are UCONN's probable three premiere players and you could see the 3 overall average 99-100 minutes, right (and what happens if I count Evina in this mix?)? Between these 3 premiere players they get 100 of 120 minutes between the 1-3 positions. That leaves 20 minutes at the 1-3 positions between Evina, and Nika (and CD). I can't see all 3 splitting these 20 minutes this early in in projecting preseason to season..

At these 1-3 positions in big games, where do you see CD getting more than just smidgen minutes? Evina's minutes at the PF are probably going to go down- so that means she will play more minutes at the 1-3. If she moves to the pg then that means Paige or CW go to the SF. To maximize the offense on this team - wouldn't Geno want to keep two of his premiere 3 in the game at all times in the big games?

And how much is Evina going to play at PG if she isn't "defending the PF spot?" But now that we have Dorka- - how many minutes will Evina have to defend the PF spot? She's a WNBA prospect - she is going to play and at least as of right now not sparing minutes. The more Evina's minutes are taken away at "defending" the PF spot- the more the 1-3 positions become more exceedingly loaded.

I don't see how CD can break into "this monster" at the 1-3 positions as a frosh in big games unless injuries come about. - It's this year only. But its a monster.

So start you off projecting Caroline Ducharme as a wing. Then you say say since Paige and Azzi are guards Caroline Ducharme has to compete with them for minutes. But a wing and a guard aren't the same positions are they?

For what is worth I think of Caroline Ducharme more as a swing man, so her minutes are coming as the 2 guard or small forward. So Christyn, Azzi, and Evina are her primary competition for minutes. That's no small order.

Your premise that Paige and Azzi will play 35 minutes each in big games is possible, especially based upon recent history, but those teams didn't have the depth that this team has. Paige, maybe 35 minutes, but that impacts Nika more than Caroline. I do not see Azzi playing 35 minutes if everyone is healthy.

In any event, in the early part of the year I'd anticipate Caroline Ducharme playing 5-10 minutes. That's most due to depth and the fact that the physicality of the game may be tough for her as a freshman.

 

[hoophuskee]

Geno recruited Caroline (and Saylor) for their versatility - to plug them in at the 2 - 4 positions, mostly shooting guard and small forward. I am willing to bet Caroline subs in for Azzi and CW most of the time. Caroline is not a PG so she is not competing with Paige, Nika or Evina, but she could spell any of them as well if there is still a PG on the floor when she subs in.

When Nika and Evina were in together- Evina played offensively like a wing imo.

Now that UCONN has Dorka - if Dorka lives up to near her billing - there is a pretty good chance this will reduce the amount of minutes for Evina to play the PF defensively in big games. The chance to beat UCONN with a perimeter team is greatly reduced this year. It's the power teams more to fear. So why can't Evina spend some limited time (very limited or not at all etc - whatever) at "defending the PF" but also more time backing up the 1-3 positions instead of Caroline backing up the 2/3?

Right now looking at preseason - UCONN has 3 players that are better than CD at the SF (CWill, Paige and Evina). And they have 4 players that are better than her at the SF. Unless some are thinking to drastically reduce Paige/Azzi and CWill in big games from the 100 I've estimated? Or CD will beat out / take a decent chunk of minutes from Evina or Nika?

This UCONN team is in a super, super situation. And barring injury, the players at the 1-3 positions are pretty entrenched, aren't they? Other than Azzi - there is something to draw from in terms of the other players having played good college hoop in the past year.

 

[Waquoit]

My big concern for her is can she play defense against more mature D1 college players.

But y'know, this thread was started by a quote coming from a D1 Final Four player complimenting her defense. On her first day.

 

[hoophuskee]

So start you off projecting Caroline Ducharme as a wing. Then you say say since Paige and Azzi are guards Caroline Ducharme has to compete with them for minutes. But a wing and a guard aren't the same positions are they?

For what is worth I think of Caroline Ducharme more as a swing man, so her minutes are coming as the 2 guard or small forward. So Christyn, Azzi, and Evina are her primary competition for minutes. That's no small order.

Your premise that Paige and Azzi will play 35 minutes each in big games is possible, especially based upon recent history, but those teams didn't have the depth that this team has. Paige, maybe 35 minutes, but that impacts Nika more than Caroline. I do not see Azzi playing 35 minutes if everyone is healthy.

In any event, in the early part of the year I'd anticipate Caroline Ducharme playing 5-10 minutes. That's most due to depth and the fact that the physicality of the game may be tough for her as a freshman.

Hey thank you for the back and forth. It's been very civil. I'm posting way too much here on this thread. I just thought it would be cool to have this conversation. Thank you everyone. I've said on some of the other posts I made on here that Paige could play some SF. That's why I see Nika as ahead of CD. She can enhance a (Paige/Azzi/CWill) combo when they are 2/3 (don't see Azzi as a 3). She's an elite passer.

I 100% agree with you regarding wing definition etc.

Off-topic- For me when I hear wing -- I think of guard play. I think the wing os more guard-oriented. So when I refer to wing - players from pg/sg/sf can be discussed as perimeter players.

Yet there is also a definition of SF's in which they are part of the frontcourt along with PF/C.
I'm bias and fine with playing smaller wings.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

Hey thank you for the back and forth. It's been very civil. I'm posting way too much here on this thread. I just thought it would be cool to have this conversation. Thank you everyone. I've said on some of the other posts I made on here that Paige could play some SF. That's why I see Nika as ahead of CD. She can enhance a (Paige/Azzi/CWill) combo when they are 2/3 (don't see Azzi as a 3). She's an elite passer.

I 100% agree with you regarding wing definition etc.

Off-topic- For me when I hear wing -- I think of guard play. I think the wing os more guard-oriented. So when I refer to wing - players from pg/sg/sf can be discussed as perimeter players.

Yet there is also a definition of SF's in which they are part of the frontcourt along with PF/C.
I'm bias and fine with playing smaller wings.

I appreciate your analysis of all of different options.

It seems that one of Geno's favorite sayings of years ago, "You can't have too many guards" is actually going to be tested this year. With the length of many of the guards, defense will not suffer {mismatches in a negative way} if four guard sets with ONO, DJ or AE, or three guards plus AG, and one of ONO, DJ or AE. I believe a 10 player rotation will be the reality this year, and none of the starters will need to go beyond 30 minutes, and the starters can enjoy the successes of the "second starting five"...

Positionless basketball can "be a thing!"

 

[cometjo]

Has the NCAA (Men or Women) ever had a pair of teammates each average more than 20 PPG in the same season?

Lou & Pheesa in 16-17

 

[CL82]

Hey thank you for the back and forth. It's been very civil. I'm posting way too much here on this thread. I just thought it would be cool to have this conversation. Thank you everyone. I've said on some of the other posts I made on here that Paige could play some SF. That's why I see Nika as ahead of CD. She can enhance a (Paige/Azzi/CWill) combo when they are 2/3 (don't see Azzi as a 3). She's an elite passer.

I 100% agree with you regarding wing definition etc.

Off-topic- For me when I hear wing -- I think of guard play. I think the wing os more guard-oriented. So when I refer to wing - players from pg/sg/sf can be discussed as perimeter players.

Yet there is also a definition of SF's in which they are part of the frontcourt along with PF/C.
I'm bias and fine with playing smaller wings.

I guess we will see. I don’t see Nika competing with time with Caroline Ducharme. Nika is more of a point guard. I guess when she comes in PB could shift to the two so that potentially takes minutes from Caroline Ducharme. Again, I don’t see Caroline playing major minutes, but it only takes being good a one thing to have a role. And Caroline is very good from deep.

 

[Buzzyboy]

And how many top 10 games did SCar have in the SEC?

Just about every elite level team plays 20 non-competitive games. SCar just plays slightly better teams but they never seem to get past the 2nd round of the tournament so how tough are they really? Check on UConn's record against P-5 teams over the last 10 years. They won the vast majority of them.

UConn played and beat 2 AP No 1 teams last year. I don't think any team even played 2, never mind winning both.

And in any case, I like watching UConn, regardless of the score. Just like how I enjoy watching Tiger Woods win by 10 shots.

Tiger Woods hasn't won anything by 10 shots or more in a minimum of 10 or more years so you obviously ENJOYED watching him win by 10 or more strokes and have a pretty good memory ....

 

[Alydar]

Tiger Woods hasn't won anything by 10 shots or more in a minimum of 10 or more years so you obviously ENJOYED watching him win by 10 or more strokes and have a pretty good memory ....

There is a lot to remember,

 

[eebmg]

Good summary of Caroline's introduction to Geno's attention to detail

Freshman Ducharme at home at UConn | UConn Women's Basketball | journalinquirer.com

“It was one of those things I did that I didn’t even notice,” Ducharme said. “It was my footwork coming off a screen and he (Geno) quickly called me out on it. I wouldn’t even have thought of it. But he’s big into taking care of little details,”


“My decision making is better and I think I’m more confident in every move I make,” Ducharme said. “I’m stronger and faster. I’ve worked on things that, like I said, I would have never even thought of. I watch tape from my first individual workout to what I was doing at the end and it’s like a different player.

“Now I need to stay on top of things, on top of the work that I’ve done here. I want to work out with the same intensity at home that I do here. I don’t want to take any steps back whether it’s in the weight room or on the court.”

 

[MSGRET]

I guess a lot of people here forgot that Caroline Ducharme beat Azzi in this year's McDonald's Woman's 3 point contest, she also won the overall 3 point contest by beating the Men's champion.

 

[Bald Husky]

You can't go into a game now predicting how many minutes each one will play. There so many options now that Geno will have the opportunity to spread the minutes out based on the opponent and game situation. All we need is for the freshmen to become competent enough to spell the starters for meaningful times during a game. For the first time in years UConn will have impact players coming off the bench. Not a defensive specialist, not a rebounding specialist, but players that can actually put the ball in the hoop and become difference makers. Paige, CW, EW played too many minutes LY, becoming gassed and not able to perform up to their potential all the time. The reason, no firepower coming in to replace them. Caroline Ducharme, Saylor, and Dorka will fill that need, enabling the starters to refresh their batteries. Ten minutes, 5 minutes, we don't know how many, but if any of these girls show that they can perform, they will play, and this my friends will make this team very dangerous.

 

[eebmg]

More recent article with more quotes

UConn women’s basketball freshman Caroline Ducharme — the ‘silent assassin’ — is already turning heads in Storrs - Hartford Courant

“Caroline is like really sneaky good,”Bueckers said. “People obviously know her, but the big talk was about Azzi. Caroline’s really good.”

 

[oldhusky]

I feel CD is a wing.

In big games-- based on what Paige and Azzi are projected- they would get about 35 minutes right? And CWill will get about 30, right? Even if things are little off with one - but overall these are UCONN's probable three premiere players and you could see the 3 overall average 99-100 minutes, right (and what happens if I count Evina in this mix?)? Between these 3 premiere players they get 100 of 120 minutes between the 1-3 positions. That leaves 20 minutes at the 1-3 positions between Evina, and Nika (and CD). I can't see all 3 splitting these 20 minutes this early in in projecting preseason to season..

At these 1-3 positions in big games, where do you see CD getting more than just smidgen minutes? Evina's minutes at the PF are probably going to go down- so that means she will play more minutes at the 1-3. If she moves to the pg then that means Paige or CW go to the SF. To maximize the offense on this team - wouldn't Geno want to keep two of his premiere 3 in the game at all times in the big games?

And how much is Evina going to play at PG if she isn't "defending the PF spot?" But now that we have Dorka- - how many minutes will Evina have to defend the PF spot? She's a WNBA prospect - she is going to play and at least as of right now not sparing minutes. The more Evina's minutes are taken away at "defending" the PF spot- the more the 1-3 positions become more exceedingly loaded.

I don't see how CD can break into "this monster" at the 1-3 positions as a frosh in big games unless injuries come about. - It's this year only. But its a monster.

I will try to tackle this with myself finding some agreement on both sides. If desired Geno could manage positions 1-3 and not go beyond the 5 players mentioned. For the wings (2-3) he could divide the minutes just between Christyn, Evina and Azzi, but that requires pretty precise timing and eliminates some of Geno's strategic options in the game.

That may be used most of the time but on some occasions I think he will try to get Nika more than backup PG minutes, and play her some with Paige, in which case Paige is the 2 and she eats into some of the trios wing minutes. Then if and only if Carolyn impresses she could get "smidgen" minutes as part of a regular 6 player rotation at the 3, but get fewer minutes than the other 5.

During certain game situations instead of using the best overall player, Geno might choose the traits that Carolyn can bring such as outside shooting and length as long as the overall difference is not too large. Put another way if Geno sticks with an 8 or 9 player rotation I think CD is out, but if it extends to 10, she might be the most likely candidate.

 

[Littlemin]

Many here wrote off Muhl last year despite Auriemma‘s own comments regarding her; the same many continue to do so. Now Ducharme gets much the same treatment, the fact is she will either earn or not earn playing time based on her performance, as do all UCONN players.
As for PG, there was a reason Bueckers did not play point last year, the same reason she will not this year; it is not her best position at this level, either offensively or defensively.