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Caroline Ducharme - and other thoughts

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I agree wholeheartedly but being fair, that is exactly what Auriemma decided was the best way to try and win a NC last year, essentially taking Muhl and Ducharme out of the mix. When it turned out he needed them against SC the rust was obvious.
I agree, Littlemin, that Geno sat Nika regularly during crunch time in big regular-season games and then again during the post-season. However, Caroline's 'benching' had been due to the after-effects of her head injury. When she finally was given significant minutes in the national championship game, she looked comfortable in a pressure situation and scored nine points, second only on the team to Paige.
 
The alternative is Caroline getting 10-15 minutes PT. How does that make us better?
 
Lets try a minutes breakdown for our rotation assuming that everyone is healthy and we are playing a top 10 team. Clearly. this will be an 8 player rotation. Amari and Nesh only get in with significant foul trouble issues.

There are plenty of minutes to go around and I think Caroline at full health will get the starting nod but minutes will equalize.

Starters
Azzi 30
Aaliyah 30
Nika 30
Caroline 25
Dorka 25

Tight bench
Lou 25
Aubry 20
Ayanna 15
 
Objectively, they are a better team against top flight competition with Azzi, Lou and Caroline getting the bulk of PT. I’ve yet to see anyone objectively disprove that. Games against Northeastern mean little. Games against most of the Big East mean little.
I don't disagree with you that Azzi Caroline Lou is probably the better unit. But "objectively"? Since we've never actually seen them play together, our opinions about this are necessarily subjective. Still, it is a very tempting thought and I'd really like to see the three of them on the floor together.
 
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Regarding Caroline, I think this team will need her for 30 minutes a game to be great. As good as this team is offensively we still have little indication that they will be able to score well against top defenses. The last 2 years in a row we got beat by top teams without Page in the lineup. And that was with 3 first round draft picks on the team who are no longer there. I'm more impressed with Lou's defense than I thought I would be and the team's overall defense so far but to be NC material we need Caroline. She can score against top flight competition and another key will be Azzi's ability to create those short jumpers and get to the rim and draw fouls. Opposing teams are going to be all over her to stop those 3 pointers. And Lou will create some offense as well but will it be enough to stop Boston and Stanford again? I don't think so without Caroline getting lots of PT.

Which to me means Nika becomes a 15 minute PT player. I actually would prefer Aubrey to get PT over Nika. And I think Nika is great. This team needs to get out on the break and convert on turnovers. This team needs some team speed. This team needs every player to be able to score. It's just a better team with Caroline, Azzi and Lou on the court. I also think Ayanna is going to be our best rebounder and after she fixes her foul issues she will both defend very well and be a force on the offensive boards which would be absolutely huge for this team. With 3 great perimeter shooters I want those offensive rebounds. Our offensive conversion rate should be outstanding with these options.
I keep on wondering what you know that Geno doesn't. He has stated more than once, that Nika is the point guard, with Azzi playing PG when Nika is not on the floor. He as also stated that both Caroline and Lou will be switching off starting, with both of them playing almost the same amount of time. We get it, you think that Nika is so-so and shouldn't be playing more than 10-15 minutes a game. But until you become the head coach, I'll listen to what Geno is saying.
 
Lets try a minutes breakdown for our rotation assuming that everyone is healthy and we are playing a top 10 team. Clearly. this will be an 8 player rotation. Amari and Nesh only get in with significant foul trouble issues.

There are plenty of minutes to go around and I think Caroline at full health will get the starting nod but minutes will equalize.

Starters
Azzi 30
Aaliyah 30
Nika 30
Caroline 25
Dorka 25

Tight bench
Lou 25
Aubry 20
Ayanna 15
Generally I agree with what you are saying. Are you limiting Ayanna to 15 minutes because you think that's all the time she will be able to stay on the court without fouling out? If she can fix her foul-proneness and perhaps improve her stamina a bit, then I think she can earn 20 to 25 minutes.

I would not exclude Ines from being a rotation player in competitive games. In the limited minutes that I have observed, she seems composed and not at all mistake-prone, and she seems to see the court well. I don't know how many minutes that equates to, but I wouldn't rule her out.

Amari is another story.
 
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Lets try a minutes breakdown for our rotation assuming that everyone is healthy and we are playing a top 10 team. Clearly. this will be an 8 player rotation. Amari and Nesh only get in with significant foul trouble issues.

There are plenty of minutes to go around and I think Caroline at full health will get the starting nod but minutes will equalize.

Starters
Azzi 30
Aaliyah 30
Nika 30
Caroline 25
Dorka 25

Tight bench
Lou 25
Aubry 20
Ayanna 15
Ooh ooh ooh! I love minutes breakdowns!

So far, it looks like Geno is playing the starters for about 30 mins each. That leaves about 50 mins for the bench, half of which goes to Aubrey. which leaves about 25 mins for the rest: Amari Ayanna Inês. Simply adding Caroline would bring us to the usual 5+3 rotation, if we think Ayanna will get more minutes than Inês, or 5+2 if we think she won't.

Your plan looks good to me. Though I can also imagine giving all the guards 25 mins (on average) and getting more time for Aubrey in the rotation. In effect, we'd have 8 players at ~25 mins each, though Ayanna might divide the last 25 between them. If we are running a press, this might look attractive. Then you could have various units on the floor in overlapping schemes.
 
First, does anyone have any updates to report on regarding Caroline's availability for Monday's game vs. Texas?

With this in mind, I "Love" the make-up of this year's team, so far (minus Paige and Ice Brady), because they appear to be more in tuned and much more fluid in their play, as a Team, and not reliant upon just 1 Player, to help bail them out (ie: Paige).

Now some questions to ask? What will Geno's rotation be when Caroline Ducharme returns? With the way that Lou Lopez-Senechal and Aubrey Griffin have looked for the Exhibition Game and especially last night's game, both Lou and Aubrey deserves the minutes on the floor. So with allot of people wanting to see Caroline Ducharme back in the lineup and even starting, at whose minutes does she take?. Starting over Lou Lopez-Senechal? Taking minutes away from Aubrey Griffin? I am not saying that Caroline doesn't deserve significant floor time, but at whose expense?

Lastly (and yes, I know we need to get thru this season first, before talking about next season, but....) after this season, all we lose is Dorka Juhasz and Lou Lopez-Senechal. We get back both Paige and Ice Brady, so that's 10 players returning. Then you add KK, Jana, Qadence, and Ashlynn to the team and now we are looking at 14 Players (and we all know what happened in the beginning of the 2021-2022 season, when we had 14 Players on the team). What are everyone's thoughts on these topics?
I have not heard anything specific. Geno suggested she was getting better. That's all.
 
I keep on wondering what you know that Geno doesn't. He has stated more than once, that Nika is the point guard, with Azzi playing PG when Nika is not on the floor.
Geno probably has said something sorta like this, though I can't recall hearing it. What I mainly remember hearing is that they don't care for a rigid assignment of a pg. More than once in the last few weeks he has explicitly said that anyone "can bring the ball up the floor." No such assignment of positions seems to organize his thinking.

It also seems apparent that he likes having Nika on the floor, bringing the ball up sometimes, hawking the opposition guards, etc. This is a separate issue from the notion that Nika, or anyone else for that matter, "is the point guard."
 
Your "Nika is great" is so condescending! Give it up. Have you watched any of the first two games? Have you listened to Geno and the players talk about who is the team leader that all the players look up to ? Relegating the team leader and all-conference defensive player to part-time status is unbelievable!
Regarding Caroline, I think this team will need her for 30 minutes a game to be great. As good as this team is offensively we still have little indication that they will be able to score well against top defenses. The last 2 years in a row we got beat by top teams without Page in the lineup. And that was with 3 first round draft picks on the team who are no longer there. I'm more impressed with Lou's defense than I thought I would be and the team's overall defense so far but to be NC material we need Caroline. She can score against top flight competition and another key will be Azzi's ability to create those short jumpers and get to the rim and draw fouls. Opposing teams are going to be all over her to stop those 3 pointers. And Lou will create some offense as well but will it be enough to stop Boston and Stanford again? I don't think so without Caroline getting lots of PT.

Which to me means Nika becomes a 15 minute PT player. I actually would prefer Aubrey to get PT over Nika. And I think Nika is great. This team needs to get out on the break and convert on turnovers. This team needs some team speed. This team needs every player to be able to score. It's just a better team with Caroline, Azzi and Lou on the court. I also think Ayanna is going to be our best rebounder and after she fixes her foul issues she will both defend very well and be a force on the offensive boards which would be absolutely huge for this team. With 3 great perimeter shooters I want those offensive rebounds. Our offensive conversion rate should be outstanding with these options.
Uh oh! Off to the races!
 
I think that Nika's PT will be connected to her scoring ability to some extent.
Nika only scored 3 points in 27 minutes against Northeastern but had a lot of assists & steals.
However if her PT doesn't result in wins against the better teams then there could be changes made.
All players are expendable when they hit a rough patch or a slump.

It's team first and everybody eats when there are other hungry players that need to be fed.
If the team needs Nika to help make or break an effective press then she'll get more PT.
If not then she may get less.
Everyone's PT will average out based on a variety of factors to be determined, especially the score.
 
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Thats exactly what I am saying. They are interchangeable, just saying Geno may think differently based on how she is playing now. As I said before, I believe both will get about the same minutes based on how they are playing in a particular game. If Caroline starts, that fine with me.
I'm not sure I have a clear picture of Caroline's game. I saw her last year when she picked up the mantle of leading scorer for a while, but then her injuries kind of took over. She hasn't been on the court, yet, this year. But Lou has looked spectacular. If Caroline is a mirror image, we have greater depth. I remain " concerned" about her neck ailment, however. It would not surprise me to learn that Caroline will not play on Monday. Something seems wrong. I hope " what is wrong" is me.

On another subject, I was pleased to see Amari in the game at the end of the third period. She did a lot of things well in her brief
time ( including the second half of the final quarter). She scored on a beautiful hook, made 4 ( of six ) free throws, had a few assists, a few blocks and a rebound or two. I hope she piles it on in practice and earns more time. She can be a difference maker. And Dorka and Edwards are going to need relief. But I feel much better about her status on the team than I did after the exhibition game.
 
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I think that Nika's PT will be connected to her scoring ability to some extent.
Nika only scored 3 points in 27 minutes against Northeastern but had a lot of assists & steals.
However if her PT doesn't result in wins against the better teams then there could be changes made.
All players are expendable when they hit a rough patch or a slump.

It's team first and everybody eats when there are other hungry players that need to be fed.
If the team needs Nika to make or break an effective press then she'll get more PT.
If not then she may get less.
Everyone's PT will average out based on factors to be determined.
You know that statement can be said about any player, that's not just basketball it's any sport.
 
I agree, Littlemin, that Geno sat Nika regularly during crunch time in big regular-season games and then again during the post-season. However, Caroline's 'benching' had been due to the after-effects of her head injury. When she finally was given significant minutes in the national championship game, she looked comfortable in a pressure situation and scored nine points, second only on the team to Paige.
Actually, Muhl got limited minutes early, after the ND game in which Bueckers got hurt, Muhl sat out the next 4 with an injury. She came back to limited minutes in an 8 point win against Creighton, then started the next 20. Uconn went 18-2, losing to Oregon in which she played all 40 minutes and Nova where she played 37. The only close game in the 18 wins was a 2 point win over DePaul in which she led the team in minutes played. After marching through the BE tournament with the closest win was by 20, she got benched.
As for Ducharme, if she was suffering after effects for the whole NCAA tournament up to SC, I don’t believe she would have played at all early and would not been put in the finals. Just my opinion.
 
I would not exclude Ines from being a rotation player in competitive games. In the limited minutes that I have observed, she seems composed and not at all mistake-prone, and she seems to see the court well. I don't know how many minutes that equates to, but I wouldn't rule her out.
In support of your point ( I happen to agree) I was pleasantly surprised to see Ines got a few minutes at SG with Azzi as the PG.
The ability to play both guard positions could prove very valuable to this team.
 
Ooh ooh ooh! I love minutes breakdowns!

So far, it looks like Geno is playing the starters for about 30 mins each. That leaves about 50 mins for the bench, half of which goes to Aubrey. which leaves about 25 mins for the rest: Amari Ayanna Inês. Simply adding Caroline would bring us to the usual 5+3 rotation, if we think Ayanna will get more minutes than Inês, or 5+2 if we think she won't.

Your plan looks good to me. Though I can also imagine giving all the guards 25 mins (on average) and getting more time for Aubrey in the rotation. In effect, we'd have 8 players at ~25 mins each, though Ayanna might divide the last 25 between them. If we are running a press, this might look attractive. Then you could have various units on the floor in overlapping schemes.
In the very toughest games, Azzi will play the most minutes. Every other player's minutes are more negotiable based on matchups and early game performance
 
Generally I agree with what you are saying. Are you limiting Ayanna to 15 minutes because you think that's all the time she will be able to stay on the court without fouling out? If she can fix her foul-proneness and perhaps improve her stamina a bit, then I think she can earn 20 to 25 minutes.

I would not exclude Ines from being a rotation player in competitive games. In the limited minutes that I have observed, she seems composed and not at all mistake-prone, and she seems to see the court well. I don't know how many minutes that equates to, but I wouldn't rule her out.

Amari is another story.
Fouls enter my thinking not as a fouling out but giving up points. Also, I think if Ayanna improves her FT's and does not get trapped in so many double teams, I could find more minutes. That will take some time
 
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I keep on wondering what you know that Geno doesn't. He has stated more than once, that Nika is the point guard, with Azzi playing PG when Nika is not on the floor. He as also stated that both Caroline and Lou will be switching off starting, with both of them playing almost the same amount of time. We get it, you think that Nika is so-so and shouldn't be playing more than 10-15 minutes a game. But until you become the head coach, I'll listen to what Geno is saying.
I see no record of Geno saying Lou and Caroline will switch off starting. That is probably a figment of your imagination. We saw Nika against a lot of top teams last year so it's not like there isn't evidence of her projected performance. She eats up bad teams. She's challenged against top competition. What I don't get is this: Do you really think Geno is going to get anywhere DISCOURAGING any player in his rotation? Of course he says nice things about Nika and there are a lot of things to like. She's just not as good as Caroline, Azzi or Lou. Geno speaks in nuance. Read between the lines.
 
Ayanna is going to get 20 plus minutes if she doesn't get into foul trouble. We only have 3 bigs who are going to get much PT.

Playing time is always flexible depending on who is having a good day etc..., the competition etc. And I don't care who starts. Just win and to me that means 30 minutes for Lou, Azzi and Caroline. At least 25 for Dorka and AE with the bulk of the remaining for Ayanna if possible.
 
I think of Aubrey as a big, too, in the mold of Gabby Williams. I know, some of us think she's become a guard, but she doesn't have a guard's mentality. She picks up her dribble before she knows where the ball is going. Maybe we could say she's a 3, or a 3/4. Her rebounding, shot blocking and moves around the rim are too good to ignore.

By this calculation, we really have 4 bigs, or maybe 3 1/2 if we play her as a 3/4. Eventually -- not yet -- Ayanna will probably play as a 3/4.

When Caroline comes back, we may think of her as a 3/4.
 
I see no record of Geno saying Lou and Caroline will switch off starting. That is probably a figment of your imagination. We saw Nika against a lot of top teams last year so it's not like there isn't evidence of her projected performance. She eats up bad teams. She's challenged against top competition. What I don't get is this: Do you really think Geno is going to get anywhere DISCOURAGING any player in his rotation? Of course he says nice things about Nika and there are a lot of things to like. She's just not as good as Caroline, Azzi or Lou. Geno speaks in nuance. Read between the lines.
That was last year, Geno stated that Nika is the leader on the floor and she energizes the team in his first day interview. He also stated in that same interview that it doesn't matter who starts between CD and Lou, but in the end both of them will most likely play the same amount of minutes. When it comes to defense Nika is the one that gets it going. You are the one that seems to be reading between the lines.
 
That was last year, Geno stated that Nika is the leader on the floor and she energizes the team in his first day interview. He also stated in that same interview that it doesn't matter who starts between CD and Lou, but in the end both of them will most likely play the same amount of minutes. When it comes to defense Nika is the one that gets it going. You are the one that seems to be reading between the lines.
It's not only about scoring points but it's also about scoring efficiency.
Lou has been shown to be a very efficient scorer for over 4 years.
If she proves to be "more indispensable" then another player, then she may get more PT.
Geno won't want to risk losing a game because of media banter.
Not sure why it's always being framed as a choice between Lou & Carol.
There's other players for Carol to split PT with too.
It's not all black & white, some of how the rotation works is also partly gray too.
It all depends on circumstances.
 
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Nika is the loudest and most active verbally and "that makes her the leader" right? She yells a lot so she's "team leader". It seems similar to how a lot of us pick political candidates, which often doesn't work well either. This is who gives us the best results on the floor. I
get that Nika's intangibles might make such a difference but I'm not buying it. I'd still rather have the best players on the floor because I WANT the ball in Azzi's hands and I WANT both Lou and Caroline as scoring threats. They all are decent defensively. Her is an example, in yesterday's Maryland game Maryland's only shot was to clog the middle or get the bigs in foul trouble because they just couldn't stop Boston and their front line. Over and over it was easy buckets for SC. So they clogged the middle and let ANYONE shoot a 3. That's how important it was to stop SC's bigs. And it almost worked until SC started making a few 3's. When Nika is in there we will get a player clogging the middle every game, slacking off on her to double Dorka or AE. We saw it over and over last year. Against top competition that hurts badly. Our bigs can't perform as needed and we don't get points from them or as many rebounds. We are dependent upon Lou and Azzi making guarded 3 pointers. So they end up shutting both shooting guards down to a large degree as well. It's a loose wheel on the car just waiting to fall off. A huge liability. Any assets Nika brings are obviated by that entire dynamic.
 
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Nika is the loudest and most active verbally and "that makes her the leader" right? She yells a lot so she's "team leader". It seems similar to how a lot of us pick political candidates, which often doesn't work well either. This is who gives us the best results on the floor. I
get that Nika's intangibles might make such a difference but I'm not buying it. I'd still rather have the best players on the floor because I WANT the ball in Azzi's hands and I WANT both Lou and Caroline as scoring threats. They all are decent defensively. Her is an example, in yesterday's Maryland game Maryland's only shot was to clog the middle or get the bigs in foul trouble because they just couldn't stop Boston and their front line. Over and over it was easy buckets for SC. So they clogged the middle and let ANYONE shoot a 3. That's how important it was to stop SC's bigs. And it almost worked until SC started making a few 3's. When Nika is in there we will get a player clogging the middle every game, slacking off on her to double Dorka or AE. We saw it over and over last year. Against top competition that hurts badly. Our bigs can't perform as needed and we don't get points from them or as many rebounds. We are dependent upon Lou and Azzi making guarded 3 pointers. So they end up shutting both shooting guards down to a large degree as well. It's a loose wheel on the car just waiting to fall off. A huge liability. Any assets Nika brings are obviated by that entire dynamic.
It's got to be a team effort.
That's why Aubrey is also important to help break down the defense & grab rebounds.
She does that better than most other players.

That's where the gray area comes in which can depend on the score & other circumstances.
Just because Geno says they will have about equal PT doesn't mean to each others exclusion.
Nika will get her PT too, just not usually or very much at Azzi's expense IMO.
It's not anything for us to really worry about, we're just spectators anyway.
As long as the team is winning the big games then it doesn't matter.
 
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Nika is the loudest and most active verbally and "that makes her the leader" right? She yells a lot so she's "team leader". It seems similar to how a lot of us pick political candidates, which often doesn't work well either. This is who gives us the best results on the floor. I
get that Nika's intangibles might make such a difference but I'm not buying it. I'd still rather have the best players on the floor because I WANT the ball in Azzi's hands and I WANT both Lou and Caroline as scoring threats. They all are decent defensively. Her is an example, in yesterday's Maryland game Maryland's only shot was to clog the middle or get the bigs in foul trouble because they just couldn't stop Boston and their front line. Over and over it was easy buckets for SC. So they clogged the middle and let ANYONE shoot a 3. That's how important it was to stop SC's bigs. And it almost worked until SC started making a few 3's. When Nika is in there we will get a player clogging the middle every game, slacking off on her to double Dorka or AE. We saw it over and over last year. Against top competition that hurts badly. Our bigs can't perform as needed and we don't get points from them or as many rebounds. We are dependent upon Lou and Azzi making guarded 3 pointers. So they end up shutting both shooting guards down to a large degree as well. It's a loose wheel on the car just waiting to fall off. A huge liability. Any assets Nika brings are obviated by that entire dynamic.
When you and others cite "evidence" from last year of Nika's offensive deficiencies, you are not giving any recognition to the obvious improvements that she has made since last year. She still isn't the first shooting option, and in the first two games, others were getting shots easily so she didn't take many shots. That will change against better competition. But she is now driving successfully to the hoop against opposition (which she never did last year) and making long passes upcourt for assists (which she never did last year). Seeing those improvements, I expect to see her take and make midrange shots in the upcoming games (when other shooters are covered) as another improvement to her game.

Given all her contributions in defense and hustle, all she has to do to earn starter's minutes is to shoot credibly enough that defenses can't ignore her to guard others. My expectation is that she has brought her game up to that point.
 
I must be watching a completely different team. In the twilight zone. I'm not seeing it. She scored 3 points against Northeastern and 7 against Kutztown. But you are sure she will score more against better competition? I grant that she does look improved. I do like her as a player and do think she's an important contributor. I just think other players can help more. We will see if they do or do not.
 
I must be watching a completely different team. In the twilight zone. I'm not seeing it. She scored 3 points against Northeastern and 7 against Kutztown. But you are sure she will score more against better competition? I grant that she does look improved. I do like her as a player and do think she's an important contributor. I just think other players can help more. We will see if they do or do not.
I don’t think it’s how much she scores so much as how she scores. It was disappointing that she only scored on a 3 pointer rather than a drive into the lane or a pull up jumper. These are the shots she didn’t take last year.

Against Kutztown, for what it’s worth, she did take and make a pull up jumper at the elbow. The very next time down the court, she drove the lane, the defense collapsed on her — because she’d proven she could make that shot, I’d argue — and she hit Azzi for an open 3. This is the offensive skill we all had hoped she would develop this summer. We’ve seen the tiniest glimpse of it. Now we need her to do that in a serious game if she’s going to be an effective pg. otherwise, come March, she’ll be on the bench in the 4th quarter.
 
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