OT: CA Moves Forward with Bill Allowing Student Athletes to Profit from Name & Likeness

[j66kicker]

State legislators say Emmert's threats (not to allow PAC-12 teams to participate in national championships) are attempts to bully and they won't put up with it.

Bill to allow athletes to profit from name advances

California's Fair Pay to Play Act passed another subcommittee hurdle in the legislative process Tuesday.

www.espn.com

 

[Blueberries]

This is interesting. To equate D1 athletes to prisoners seems a bit extreme. Especially saying that they are treated as such because they are given food and lodging but not the opportunity to earn a fair wage.... I dare ask about the tuition, school fees, books, etc that student athletes are provided? Would those together not add up to a fair wage? Most college athletes don't continue on to pursue their sports professionally, so I dare say that the education and expenses covered are worth well more than a fair wage for 95%+ of college athletes?

Not saying that I agree or disagree, just pondering several different angles....

 

[MSGRET]

This is interesting. To equate D1 athletes to prisoners seems a bit extreme. Especially saying that they are treated as such because they are given food and lodging but not the opportunity to earn a fair wage.... I dare ask about the tuition, school fees, books, etc that student athletes are provided? Would those together not add up to a fair wage? Most college athletes don't continue on to pursue their sports professionally, so I dare say that the education and expenses covered are worth well more than a fair wage for 95%+ of college athletes?

Not saying that I agree or disagree, just pondering several different angles....

I see the NCAA making rules on the Universities receiving a percentage of the student athlete money as reimbursement for some of the scholarship since they are making money while getting a free ride in their education. Maybe the NCAA will state that if payment is made to a student athlete that they (the student) waive their right to the per deim that atheletes get from the University.

 

[j66kicker]

I see the NCAA making rules on the Universities receiving a percentage of the student athlete money as reimbursement for some of the scholarship since they are making money while getting a free ride in their education. Maybe the NCAA will state that if payment is made to a student athlete that they (the student) waive their right to the per diem that athletes get from the University.

I see more states passing similar legislation and forcing the NCAA to allow student athletes to profit from jersey sales, video game royalties, etc. The NCAA will likely ultimately concede this because they won't have any choice. And they'll hope it delays and makes the "pay the players" movement go away.

 

[hoopsfan22]

As if the NCAA will ever tell the P5 teams "no." Empty threats by Emmert. The NCAA's power is derived from the member institutions. If the member institutions, especially the ones that pay the bills, want something, they will have it.

 

[Vowelguy]

I don't see how the NCAA can allow some athletes to get paid but not others. They will fight this tooth and nail, unless there is agreement to change the NCAA rule.

 

[Crossover2]

College players are not Pros !
Any kind of payment like that makes you a pro.
If this passes, it will be decided in court.

 

[hoopsfan22]

College players are not Pros !
Any kind of payment like that makes you a pro.
If this passes, it will be decided in court.

Why does it need to be litigated at all? Are there laws preventing college players from getting paid? Seems like it's just an NCAA policy, and what are they going to do if USC, Ohio State, Oregon, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, Clemson, et al decide to pay players against the NCAA's wishes? Perhaps if South Central Louisiana State University did it there would be consequences, but not for the big money schools for the same reason UNC can have fake classes for their athletes while lowly UConn must graduate every player with a 4.0 GPA just in case the NCAA decides to make a new academic standard and apply it retroactively to schools who are in counties named Tolland that have blue as a school color and a canine mascot.

 

[JordyG]

So the sliding slope begins-----and it's about time. I remember when Jerry Tarkanian was sanctioned for buying one of his players a hamburger because he was hungry.

 

[JordyG]

College players are not Pros !
Any kind of payment like that makes you a pro.
If this passes, it will be decided in court.

Yet just like the pros everyone profits from the players sweat: The universities, the swag sellers, the NCAA, the concessions, the ushers, management, the coaches, the scalpers, the oddsmakers, the betting public, the uniform manufacturers, the equipment manufacturers, arena builders, real estate moguls, the doctors, the talking heads on TV, the TV stations, those who buy commercial spots, on and on. Everyone except the players. No, they're getting a "free" education, so just shut up and play.

 

[JordyG]

I see more states passing similar legislation and forcing the NCAA to allow student athletes to profit from jersey sales, video game royalties, etc. The NCAA will likely ultimately concede this because they won't have any choice. And they'll hope it delays and makes the "pay the players" movement go away.

It will and it won't.

 

[j66kicker]

Why does it need to be litigated at all? Are there laws preventing college players from getting paid? Seems like it's just an NCAA policy, and what are they going to do if USC, Ohio State, Oregon, Michigan, Texas, Alabama, Clemson, et al decide to pay players against the NCAA's wishes? Perhaps if South Central Louisiana State University did it there would be consequences, but not for the big money schools for the same reason UNC can have fake classes for their athletes while lowly UConn must graduate every player with a 4.0 GPA just in case the NCAA decides to make a new academic standard and apply it retroactively to schools who are in counties named Tolland that have blue as a school color and a canine mascot.

Agree there is nothing illegal about paying players - just an NCAA rule. But the CA bill isn't about the colleges paying players. It just allows the players to market themselves - be able to own and profit from the rights to their own names and images.

Of course this is specifically against NCAA policy, so basically the bill says the NCAA policy doesn't apply in CA. So Emmert says, "You can't do that!" And the CA legislature says, "You watch us!"

 

[Plebe]

Agree there is nothing illegal about paying players - just an NCAA rule. But the CA bill isn't about the colleges paying players. It just allows the players to market themselves - be able to own and profit from the rights to their own names and images.

Of course this is specifically against NCAA policy, so basically the bill says the NCAA policy doesn't apply in CA. So Emmert says, "You can't do that!" And the CA legislature says, "You watch us!"

If this goes through, the talent gap between the P5 conferences and everyone else will widen beyond recognition. Like going from a small ravine to the Grand Canyon.

 

[eebmg]

If this goes through, the talent gap between the P5 conferences and everyone will widen beyond recognition. Like going from a small ravine to the Grand Canyon.

I imagine that if CA succeeds, all other states will quickly follow suit to remove defacto competative imbalances by geography. Why not?

 

[Plebe]

I imagine that if CA succeeds, all other states will quickly follow suit to remove defacto competative imbalances by geography. Why not?

Yes, and I'm saying this will amplify the gap between the P5 and non-P5 conferences to astronomical proportions.

 

[eebmg]

Yes, and I'm saying this will amplify the gap between the P5 and non-P5 conferences to astronomical proportions.

Oh. For some reason, I was translating P5 to PAC12 in my little brain.

 

[j66kicker]

Yes, and I'm saying this will amplify the gap between the P5 and non-P5 conferences to astronomical proportions.

Non-P5 athletes (such as Paige Bueckers, or Ja Morant of Murray State - this year's #2 overall NBA draft pick) would also be able to profit from the marketing of their names & images. Not sure the advantage it would give the P5. ??

 

[Plebe]

Non-P5 athletes (such as Paige Bueckers, or Ja Morant of Murray State - this year's #2 overall NBA draft pick) would also be able to profit from the marketing of their names & images. Not sure the advantage it would give the P5. ??

Because the P5 schools have immensely bigger media platforms. Bigger platform = more views/clicks = more $$ to athletes who can profit from use of their image and likeness. The incentive to choose the schools with the biggest media platforms will be massive.

UConn WBB is, for now, certainly an anomaly in this landscape — as Gary Blair put it, a power conference unto itself. But being an anomaly doesn't make it immune to this long-term dynamic.

The Ja Morants of tomorrow — also anomalies — would be able to profit, yes; but ultimately less so than their P5 counterparts, AOTBE.

 

[toadfoot]

1. Trying to stop this from happening nationwide is like trying to stop the sun from rising.
2. I really hate this. D1 college athletes on scholarship are already being paid. If you don't believe that try paying tuition and room and board for a college education. My son's bill for 4 years at Connecticut College ran ~250K. If D1 athletes are going to be paid how about they surrender their athletic scholarships so that the college or university can offer more needs based scholarships?

 

[uconnell]

1. Trying to stop this from happening nationwide is like trying to stop the sun from rising.
2. I really hate this. D1 college athletes on scholarship are already being paid. If you don't believe that try paying tuition and room and board for a college education. My son's bill for 4 years at Connecticut College ran ~250K. If D1 athletes are going to be paid how about they surrender their athletic scholarships so that the college or university can offer more needs based scholarships?

A lot of college athletes are need based. If you wanted lower tuition debt you could have sent your son to a college with lower tuition. Regular students that need help get it according to their family funds. I am not going into my situation with my family but my grandson got needs based help plus he worked at the library, was a RA, a driver who picked up drunk students on campus and made sure they got home safely plus played in the UCMB and was president of his fraternity. So don’t do any sob stories here. I am sure many other families have found away.
Sorry not sorry.

 

[uconnell]

I wasn't asking for sympathy you twit. And fortunately we could afford to pay it. I suggest you more carefully read my OP. My issue is providing athletic scholarships AND paying athletes on top of their scholarship.

I don’t agree with you. It sure sounded like you had a hard time paying the loan. Yes I probably am a twit but I still disagree with you.

 

[uconnell]

I think that college athletes should be paid for the use of their likeness and shirts sold.

 

[Irishfan]

So under this rule, if I buy a Notre Dame football jersey with #15 on it, who gets paid? Brady Quinn?, Phil Jurkovec?, Isaiah Rutherford?, we have two guys on the same ream with the same number. I guess $60,000 for tuition and room isn’t enough.

 

[SWHuskyFan]

The argument that players are being paid because they're getting free tuition is beyond ridiculous. This is a capitalist country, capping how much money a person can make based on the tuition of a particular school is not how capitalism is supposed to work. A lot of these players are worth hundreds of times the tuition. How much money did Ray Allen make for UConn when he was here? How much money could he have made in an open market? How much money could he have made just in marketing revenue?

If the NCAA doesn't start giving players some way to earn money, the NBA is going to solve the problem for them. The G league is going to start looking pretty attractive to 5 star recruits. Once that ball starts rolling, the NCAA will have no recourse.

 

[uconnell]

So under this rule, if I buy a Notre Dame football jersey with #15 on it, who gets paid? Brady Quinn?, Phil Jurkovec?, Isaiah Rutherford?, we have two guys on the same ream with the same number. I guess $60,000 for tuition and room isn’t enough.

How much mo ney
does the school make off that $60 grand?

 

[Irishfan]

How much mo ney
does the school make off that $60 grand?

They probably made a lot of money off of Ian Book, but not so much off of of DJ Brown, but they both wear #12. Who decides how much goes to Book and how much goes to Brown.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

How much mo ney
does the school make off that $60 grand?

In the abstract that is probably not measurable. If they didn't give those scholarships, they wouldn't make any of the revenue they make from having college sports. But quantifying the contribution of a specific individual, not practical.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

In this far ranging discussion, a number of different issues have been debated.

Costs of college crept in. In addition to not being a subject for this forum, there are probably a million differing opinions on the subject from numerous different angles. Not going there.

As to student-athletes being "paid" via their scholarship, books, per diem , et al - in a certain sense, they are. They have essentially contracted their services as an athlete in exchange for the selection of items they currently receive. I'm pretty sure not one athlete is forced to attend a certain school for this benefit. If it doesn't work, they don't have to go.

That said, I would argue that our current system of using college as the minor leagues, particularly in hoops and football, results in a lot of folks in the school that don't necessarily belong there. Not everyone - and not every athlete - is prepared for a college education. Lots of jobs - and well paying ones - in the trades and through technical school, for those who are not going to have a career in athletics. And in some of these sports, the athletes leave early in any case and don't graduate - either at all or until later.

I would argue that athletes should be able to profit from at least some aspects of being a college athlete - the school should have certain retained rights (game images, for example) and the athlete should have the right to contract use of their name for selling merchandise (uniforms, bobble heads, whatnot) outside of the school. Details I don't know, but makes sort of sense to me.

 

[eebmg]

The argument that players are being paid because they're getting free tuition is beyond ridiculous. This is a capitalist country, capping how much money a person can make based on the tuition of a particular school is not how capitalism is supposed to work. A lot of these players are worth hundreds of times the tuition. How much money did Ray Allen make for UConn when he was here? How much money could he have made in an open market? How much money could he have made just in marketing revenue?

If the NCAA doesn't start giving players some way to earn money, the NBA is going to solve the problem for them. The G league is going to start looking pretty attractive to 5 star recruits. Once that ball starts rolling, the NCAA will have no recourse.

I will stay out of the player compensation issues but not sure the G league (or equivalently, international leagues) is a good option for most potential high draft picks. Staying in college for that 1 year usually provides the best venue for the player to look like a world beater playing against good but not great competition.,

Stick these physically developing kids into a G league with older more physical and more desperate players will show a lot of chinks in the armor of these players which can cost them NBA draft position (not to mention more chances for injury)