BY25 poll #4: Results are in

[Plebe]

Number of 1st-place votes shown in parentheses:

Also receiving votes (on at least two ballots): South Dakota State 44, Missouri State 33, Georgia 32, Washington State 26, Tennessee 12, Arizona State 10, Villanova 9, Iowa State 5, North Carolina 5.

The following teams appeared on only one ballot: UCF, Florida Gulf Coast, Bowling Green, Cal Baptist, Milwaukee, Rice.

Thank you to all who voted. Twenty-five ballots were submitted.

The next poll will be Monday, January 18, 2021.

 

[Lorcan]

While I respect people’s opinions, it is definitely jarring to see so many people refusing to rank Stanford #1 after putting a beat down on Arizona who was formerly comfortably in the Top 10 of this same poll. Just my two cents. No other team has beaten two top 11 opponents IIRC.

 

[Plebe]

While I respect people’s opinions, it is definitely jarring to see so many people refusing to rank Stanford #1 after putting a beat down on Arizona who was formerly comfortably in the Top 10 of this same poll. Just my two cents. No other team has beaten two top 11 opponents IIRC.

Stanford garnered 619 out of a possible 625 points, a full 43 points ahead of the next-closest vote-getter. Perhaps let's not be too greedy?

 

[Zinethar]

While I respect people’s opinions, it is definitely jarring to see so many people refusing to rank Stanford #1 after putting a beat down on Arizona who was formerly comfortably in the Top 10 of this same poll. Just my two cents. No other team has beaten two top 11 opponents IIRC.

I am surprised that you find it "jarring" that there just might be a bit of UConn bias on a UConn board. I am a bit surprised that Louisville garnered so much respect when after a long layoff they were barely able to defeat a very low ranked team then got their next win vs the 2nd worst team according to that new NCAA poll. I've watched a tons of women's NCAA basketball this year (I have so little else I can do) and have seen them and NC State have real issues against tough competition. I'm not as sold on the PAC-12 as everyone else seems to be so until they play outside the league against other top teams I'll reserve judgement. I really don't understand the current love of Big10 basketball. I guess if you are a P5 football school you must be great in all sports. Especially this year early polls mean very little.

 

[mbr33ct]

Stanford garnered 619 out of a possible 625 points, a full 43 points ahead of the next-closest vote-getter. Perhaps let's not be too greedy?

If I were to venture in this chat (and I am), my guess would be @Lorcan (he/she) is only talking about those 6 voters that have not voted Stanford #1...must be wanting a "unanimous" #1 so a banner can fly in the rafters of Maple Pavilion. ?

 

[Zanzman]

While I respect people’s opinions, it is definitely jarring to see so many people refusing to rank Stanford #1 after putting a beat down on Arizona who was formerly comfortably in the Top 10 of this same poll. Just my two cents. No other team has beaten two top 11 opponents IIRC.

How can they put a unanimous banner without all the votes ..... ooops sorry SC

 

[DefenseBB]

Wow, 7 teams from the Big10, though none in the top 10!

Only 2 ACC teams and both in the top 5. 5 SEC teams, 2 Big12 teams and 4 PAC12 teams.

2 Big East teams and 1 AAC team. Why anyone would vote UCF is beyond me, did they not see the Houston/UCF game over the weekend? Yuk...heck the Ole Miss/LSU game was better....

 

[Lorcan]

If I were to venture in this chat (and I am), my guess would be @Lorcan (he/she) is only talking about those 6 voters that have not voted Stanford #1...must be wanting a "unanimous" #1 so a banner can fly in the rafters of Maple Pavilion. ?

Yeah. While I respect people's rights to have a different opinion, if UConn had beaten the #6 team in the country by 25 in the same position as Stanford was right now, I would bet on them being a unanimous #1 in the next poll. While this might be seen as greedy, I'm just mainly baffled at the rationale some people have in not ranking Stanford #1 after their body of work so far. For comparison, Stanford's SOS is 10, compared to Louisville's 152, and UConn's 82. The worst team Stanford has faced is #159 UNLV compared to Louisville's 3 Teams with a Sub-180 Massey, and UConn's win over #252 UMass Lowell. UConn and Louisville's best win is over #37 DePaul, and they Louisville struggled with Northern Kentucky. Stanford has beaten #7 Arizona, #11 UCLA, and #36 Arizona State. I can understand some people thinking that in a head to head matchup, Louisville or UConn might beat Stanford in the tournament based on whatever bias they have, but I'm baffled as to how people are rationalizing Louisville or UConn ahead of Stanford when the numbers don't show it at this point in the season based on the body of work so far IMO.

I guess I can take a cue from everyone else and chalk it up to the impossible homerism of some people on the board and say that hope springs eternal. In my mind right now, I can understand NC State getting a vote since they do have the best win of any team so far over South Carolina with UCLA's win over Oregon being a close second. For the record, the intent of my post was not necessarily to demand more votes for Stanford, but to understand the rationale behind why people voted a certain way. In any case, sorry if I came on strongly, just trying to understand different perspectives.

 

[Plebe]

Wow, 7 teams from the Big10, though none in the top 10!

Only 2 ACC teams and both in the top 5. 5 SEC teams, 2 Big12 teams and 4 PAC12 teams.

2 Big East teams and 1 AAC team. Why anyone would vote UCF is beyond me, did they not see the Houston/UCF game over the weekend? Yuk...heck the Ole Miss/LSU game was better....

Well, Syracuse is also ranked, barely, at #24, despite doing nothing remarkable so far except lose by 24 to North Carolina The ACC is a wasteland after Louisville/NC State. Several teams have tried their hand at being ranked (even Notre Dame, ha) only to be exposed as unworthy in short order.

UCF and Houston have a combined four wins over teams from the so-called "power 5". And UCF is a "win ugly" kind of team. It's basketball, not a beauty contest. UCF had a dominant road win at LSU, so I wouldn't run with that comparison. I get that there's a bad taste from the UConn-UCF games, but I'm frankly surprised to see my esteemed colleague from this august chamber suddenly turn into an SEC fan

 

[EricLA]

Yeah. While I respect people's rights to have a different opinion, if UConn had beaten the #6 team in the country by 25 in the same position as Stanford was right now, I would bet on them being a unanimous #1 in the next poll. While this might be seen as greedy, I'm just mainly baffled at the rationale some people have in not ranking Stanford #1 after their body of work so far. For comparison, Stanford's SOS is 10, compared to Louisville's 152, and UConn's 82. The worst team Stanford has faced is #159 UNLV compared to Louisville's 3 Teams with a Sub-180 Massey, and UConn's win over #252 UMass Lowell. UConn and Louisville's best win is over #37 DePaul, and they Louisville struggled with Northern Kentucky. Stanford has beaten #7 Arizona, #11 UCLA, and #36 Arizona State. I can understand some people thinking that in a head to head matchup, Louisville or UConn might beat Stanford in the tournament based on whatever bias they have, but I'm baffled as to how people are rationalizing Louisville or UConn ahead of Stanford when the numbers don't show it at this point in the season based on the body of work so far IMO.

I guess I can take a cue from everyone else and chalk it up to the impossible homerism of some people on the board and say that hope springs eternal. In my mind right now, I can understand NC State getting a vote since they do have the best win of any team so far over South Carolina with UCLA's win over Oregon being a close second. For the record, the intent of my post was not necessarily to demand more votes for Stanford, but to understand the rationale behind why people voted a certain way. In any case, sorry if I came on strongly, just trying to understand different perspectives.

Or, you could come down from your high horse and realize that the UCONN poll is remarkably similar to the AP poll where Stanford has 27 1st place votes, NC State has 2, and UCONN has 1. Shocker, and jarring for sure. Did you reach out to the AP voters to see if they exhibited abject homerism as well?

 

[LowkeyX]

I matched #1- #6 & #11- #17... I figured Texas A&M would automatically hop to #7 over Oregon since they’re still undefeated. But I understand that Oregon has looked pretty strong & almost beat UCLA so no issue with them there.

Syracuse is barely hanging on by a thread in the poll, and I only put them in mines at #25 b/c the teams nearing a ranking didn’t help their case this week. I see Syracuse dropping out eventually.

Last, I’m glad we all realize that Iowa is legit this year again. Don’t know why the AP voters are sleeping on them smh.

 

[LowkeyX]

Wow, 7 teams from the Big10, though none in the top 10!

Only 2 ACC teams and both in the top 5. 5 SEC teams, 2 Big12 teams and 4 PAC12 teams.

2 Big East teams and 1 AAC team. Why anyone would vote UCF is beyond me, did they not see the Houston/UCF game over the weekend? Yuk...heck the Ole Miss/LSU game was better....

Maryland will get there I bet, especially if they beat Mich. St. on Thursday.

 

[Plebe]

Last, I’m glad we all realize that Iowa is legit this year again. Don’t know why the AP voters are sleeping on them smh.

I wouldn't say "all". Multiple ballots did not include Iowa. (This was generally true for the last 7 or so teams in the poll.) But I agree, the AP voters need to get with it. Iowa got zero AP votes prior to week 4, and have only barely creeped up since then in the RV category.

 

[DefenseBB]

I apologize for not referencing the Boneyarder here but one of us did include a way to see each of the 32 voters and their order 1-25. As we all know many of these so called exports have their own agenda (ahem Deb Antonelli) so their votes are always suspect.
We do have a very knowledgeable, albeit biased WCBB posters who do assess all teams and point out under-recognized or over-recognized teams. I mean that in sincerity and is why so many fans come to this site and I for one, thank them for increasing my knowledge and wherewithal. Kudos to all of you!

 

[triaddukefan]

Let the record show that I had Stanford at #1, and Iowa at #18. The rest of my ballot will remain private

 

[Argonaut]

I guess I can take a cue from everyone else and chalk it up to the impossible homerism of some people on the board and say that hope springs eternal.

I think that's a little harsh. 19/25 voters agree that Stanford is the top team in the country and UConn even got a #1 vote in the AP poll.

So even if 3 of the 4 UConn votes are examples of “impossible homerism,” I think we’re doing pretty okay with the BY25.

 

[Vowelguy]

Seeding using this bracket

 

[LETTERL]

Let the record show that I had Stanford at #1, and Iowa at #18. The rest of my ballot will remain private

My top 5 were Stanford, NC State, UCONN, South Carolina, Louisville. I also had Iowa at #23.

 

[Bigboote]

Another thing you have to consider is that for many of us, it's difficult to see any Pac-12 games. I've seen Stanford once and wasn't highly impressed. I'm not saying I'm right, but I do need to vote based on the information I have. Seeing a game to me carries more weight than seeing a box score.

Jones is amazing, but all I saw beyond her is good to really good, not (in Geno parlance) really really good.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I was one of those who didn't rank Stanford #1 - I voted for UConn. My view is if both teams played today, UConn would narrowly win (especially without Brink and if they played like they did on Sunday vs ASU, Missy phantom fouls nonsense notwithstanding). But I tend to be bearish on my own team and also to give the edge to teams who have shown they can win when the chips are down. Same reason why I'd rank Baylor and South Carolina over NC State; unless and until the Wolfpack dazzle in the postseason, all other things equal I'll put my money on Mulkey and Staley. (Though I do not count Dawn's Mythical National Championship in my analysis.)

And in general, I rank as if I were the committee - by seed line, so I don't care nearly as much about 3 vs 4 or 7 vs 8 as I do 4 vs 5, 8 vs 9, etc. The rest washes out in the end. And my #1 seeds right now are UConn, Stanford, Louisville, and Baylor.

 

[LETTERL]

and also to give the edge to teams who have shown they can win when the chips are down.

If being down 16 points with 6 minutes to go against BC and turning up the defensive intensity to pull out a win isn't a classic example of showing they can win when the chips are down in a game when the Wolfpack Women shot 30% from the field, I don't know what else NC State can do but go up to Louisville and win there to try to convince you and other doubters they are legit.

 

[TheFarmFan]

I don't know what else NC State can do but go up to Louisville and win there to try to convince you and other doubters they are legit.

How about get to the Elite Eight since anyone on the current Wolfpack team was born? And it's not a question of being legit - there are many legit teams this year, including NC State. But a top four rank implies they are favored to get to the final four. I just don't see them beating a Baylor or South Carolina in an Elite Eight match, if they even got there (which they have yet to do since Y2K). Same reason why I'd pick UConn over Stanford if they got to the championship game, and hence why I ranked UConn #1. I rank entirely based on "if the post season started today" - no one (other than Dawn, ahem) should care about rankings in and of themselves, just what they signal about prospects in the post season.

There's a reason why rosters turn over every year and yet good coaches win year after year - clutch coaching and player prep really, really matters in tight, high pressure games. Geno, Kim, and Dawn have passed that test repeatedly. Moore is a great coach, but I'm not going to believe it until I see it.

 

[Alydar]

Yeah. While I respect people's rights to have a different opinion, if UConn had beaten the #6 team in the country by 25 in the same position as Stanford was right now, I would bet on them being a unanimous #1 in the next poll. While this might be seen as greedy, I'm just mainly baffled at the rationale some people have in not ranking Stanford #1 after their body of work so far. For comparison, Stanford's SOS is 10, compared to Louisville's 152, and UConn's 82. The worst team Stanford has faced is #159 UNLV compared to Louisville's 3 Teams with a Sub-180 Massey, and UConn's win over #252 UMass Lowell. UConn and Louisville's best win is over #37 DePaul, and they Louisville struggled with Northern Kentucky. Stanford has beaten #7 Arizona, #11 UCLA, and #36 Arizona State. I can understand some people thinking that in a head to head matchup, Louisville or UConn might beat Stanford in the tournament based on whatever bias they have, but I'm baffled as to how people are rationalizing Louisville or UConn ahead of Stanford when the numbers don't show it at this point in the season based on the body of work so far IMO.

I guess I can take a cue from everyone else and chalk it up to the impossible homerism of some people on the board and say that hope springs eternal. In my mind right now, I can understand NC State getting a vote since they do have the best win of any team so far over South Carolina with UCLA's win over Oregon being a close second. For the record, the intent of my post was not necessarily to demand more votes for Stanford, but to understand the rationale behind why people voted a certain way. In any case, sorry if I came on strongly, just trying to understand different perspectives.

There are a few top ten teams that are there by default. Stanford does have the best resume but their opponents' play in those games wasn't exactly stellar. That wasn't a NO 6 losing at home to Stanford. More like the battle I would expect from Utah or Colorado. I don't vote and probably won't until mid February. Personally I don't think UConn is playing (yet) at a No 1 level but then no one else is either. Should be a great tournament this year.

 

[Cuango]

If I were to venture in this chat (and I am), my guess would be @Lorcan (he/she) is only talking about those 6 voters that have not voted Stanford #1...must be wanting a "unanimous" #1 so a banner can fly in the rafters of Maple Pavilion. ?

That doesn’t make sense. If you are following Dawn’s example you just write “unanimous” anyway. In today’s world, “most” is close enough.

 

[Plebe]

Yeah. While I respect people's rights to have a different opinion, if UConn had beaten the #6 team in the country by 25 in the same position as Stanford was right now, I would bet on them being a unanimous #1 in the next poll. While this might be seen as greedy, I'm just mainly baffled at the rationale some people have in not ranking Stanford #1 after their body of work so far. For comparison, Stanford's SOS is 10, compared to Louisville's 152, and UConn's 82. The worst team Stanford has faced is #159 UNLV compared to Louisville's 3 Teams with a Sub-180 Massey, and UConn's win over #252 UMass Lowell. UConn and Louisville's best win is over #37 DePaul, and they Louisville struggled with Northern Kentucky. Stanford has beaten #7 Arizona, #11 UCLA, and #36 Arizona State. I can understand some people thinking that in a head to head matchup, Louisville or UConn might beat Stanford in the tournament based on whatever bias they have, but I'm baffled as to how people are rationalizing Louisville or UConn ahead of Stanford when the numbers don't show it at this point in the season based on the body of work so far IMO.

I guess I can take a cue from everyone else and chalk it up to the impossible homerism of some people on the board and say that hope springs eternal. In my mind right now, I can understand NC State getting a vote since they do have the best win of any team so far over South Carolina with UCLA's win over Oregon being a close second. For the record, the intent of my post was not necessarily to demand more votes for Stanford, but to understand the rationale behind why people voted a certain way. In any case, sorry if I came on strongly, just trying to understand different perspectives.

I was among the vast majority of voters who put Stanford #1, but I'll play devil's advocate for a moment.

You seem to feel that Stanford's win over Arizona puts their top-ranked status into indisputable territory. The necessary counterpoint, however, would be: Have they beaten any of the other teams that received first-place votes? If a voter had ranked Arizona #1 and/or ahead of Stanford, then I'd agree that their position is untenable. But just because Stanford dominated a team down ballot doesn't necessarily mean that they would do the same to each of the teams in its immediate vicinity in the rankings.

Poll rankings, no matter how objective we pride ourselves in being, are a largely subjective exercise that inevitably resorts to a melange of assumptions and, yes, biases, whether acknowledged or not. So although I consider Stanford to belong in the #1 spot for the moment, I don't begrudge those who give the nod to NC State, or Louisville, or even UConn.