Butler Post Game Thread

[Hunt for 7]

How a thread about a Butler game in a different year becomes a thread on how much we tired out Edey in the NC game is pure boneyard. It is interesting because we are deeper this year than last but as a defender you do not have to work as hard to cover us on offense.

So that will negate our depth to some degree.

But with all that said we have to like what this team is starting to look like. Liam is one of the top three freshman in the country. Alex is going to be Alex. Our center rotation now that Singare is able to give us five minutes of game is very solid.

Hass is turning into a very good point guard.

Ross is turning into an elite perimeter defender.

Mahaney is starting to find his spots to add some offense when he gets in the game.

Stewart will make us some big plays this year with his offensive skills.

Ball is still the enigma. His defense is getting better but with his measurable’s of length and hops he should be more effective going to the hoop. But that part of his game needs work. Not the kind you are going to really improve on in year. But maybe I am wrong. But I think he will be a decent defender by the end of the year.

Nowell is an interesting case. I trust the staff and if they feel he is not ready then he must need some work. Maybe they are just being extra cautious with the shoulder. But as I watched the Butler game I did not see a lot of opportunity for him to get PT. He will grow as the season goes along but so will Mahaney. It’s going to be hard to find him regular minutes.

Samson is playing better, Reed is getting better.

So the key is our ability to defend better and get our metrics up. We know what it means to be top 1-2 on offense and not in the top 20 on defense at least on KenPom. We need to be better balanced. I am confident the staff will figure out how to get our defense up to par.

 

[jibsey]

The players who are not the core,( Hass, AK, Liam and Reed) will be factors in different games the way Solo was with Xavier.
Sometimes Stew, maybe Mahaney or Ross but they are all role players on this team with apparently limited minutes except for Solo, and I think he will be in that productive core by season end. I still consider Johnson a role player overall because of his limited floor time dictated by fouls and his lack of rebounding.
I agree that the way for this team to be great is defense which is how those other guys get on the floor.

 

[Waquoit]

I'm feeling a good deal of unironic spoiled arrogance in this thread.

 

[storrsroars]

I'm feeling a good deal of unironic spoiled arrogance in this thread.

You want to be a blue blood or not?

 

[RuffRuff]

When you watch the replay you can see him walking back in the second half instead of at least jogging. Ran him right out of the gym.

Numbers are an asset; not a liability when they are used properly and everyone understands the culture. When you're exhausted physically it plays tricks with your mind unless you can overcome it with will. Then add the complexity and speed of our offense which can be something to behold.

This is what kills me - he does a lot of gazing. If you watch him on both ends of the floor off ball, there is a lot of standing around. Would be good to see him more anticipatory and less waiting for things to come to him. Meanwhile he has a guy like Hass out there running around involved in everything.

 

[Iluvsuebird]

Our top four guards last year were Newton, Spencer, Castle, and Diarra. That's more than just fresh legs, that's four very talented guys.

Our guards this year are Diarra, Ball, Mahaney, and Nowell. That's one talented guy, two underachievers, and the only other PG option who's glued to the bench.

Big difference in what those fresh legs bring to the party. Dan Hurley has 19 games to figure it out. And that's not even including that Stewart and Ross haven't taken huge steps at F to take the load off AK and LM.

I want to trust Dan Hurley that he built this team with a vision of a three-peat, but if we do get to the promised land, so far it's looking like the frontcourt and Hass will have to be run ragged to get there.

I see your point, I really do. I am not at all suggesting that depth equates to same or similar results. I am, however, a big fan of kids that are currently not playing, mainly Nowell and Abraham. But I will be the first to acknowledge that Dan Hurly knows infinitely more than I do about his team!!!!

 

[superjohn]

The amount of flak Solo catches on this board is bordering on the ridiculous. He hardly gets any assists. Who cares? The team gets a ton of assists and Ball isn't asked to get assists. Hass is getting 11 assists in some games now and Liam and AK are elite assist guys for their positions. You know who else hardly got any assists, Jordan Hawkins. What were his shooting numbers against non cupcakes before the '23 NCAA tournament? Were people cherry picking his numbers?

Solo has had one dud game shooting the ball against a non cupcake this season, the last game against Butler.

 

[ctbro1999]

The amount of flak Solo catches on this board is bordering on the ridiculous. He hardly gets any assists. Who cares? The team gets a ton of assists and Ball isn't asked to get assists. Hass is getting 11 assists in some games now and Liam and AK are elite assist guys for their positions. You know who else hardly got any assists, Jordan Hawkins. What were his shooting numbers against non cupcakes before the '23 NCAA tournament? Were people cherry picking his numbers?

Solo has had one dud game shooting the ball against a non cupcake this season, the last game against Butler.

Yeah, Hawkins averaged 1.0 assists during his UConn career. While it would be nice for him to get a couple dimes per game, that's not really Ball's game. His job is to put the ball through the net from deep, and so far he's been doing that at a 41% clip.

 

[RuffRuff]

I see your point, I really do. I am not at all suggesting that depth equates to same or similar results. I am, however, a big fan of kids that are currently not playing, mainly Nowell and Abraham. But I will be the first to acknowledge that Dan Hurly knows infinitely more than I do about his team!!!!

Watching Danny develop and strategize is all part of the fun, and yeah Dan Hurley knows what he’s doing. Us BY stoonads can just sit back and enjoy the ride and talk about it.

 

[WhereistheDove?]

The amount of flak Solo catches on this board is bordering on the ridiculous. He hardly gets any assists. Who cares? The team gets a ton of assists and Ball isn't asked to get assists. Hass is getting 11 assists in some games now and Liam and AK are elite assist guys for their positions. You know who else hardly got any assists, Jordan Hawkins. What were his shooting numbers against non cupcakes before the '23 NCAA tournament? Were people cherry picking his numbers?

Solo has had one dud game shooting the ball against a non cupcake this season, the last game against Butler.

People also easily forget that Hawkins had plenty of low percentage games from three. It’s just the nature of being a 3-point shooter. You’re going to have some absolute heaters and some where you’re just a bit off.

 

[RuffRuff]

The amount of flak Solo catches on this board is bordering on the ridiculous. He hardly gets any assists. Who cares? The team gets a ton of assists and Ball isn't asked to get assists. Hass is getting 11 assists in some games now and Liam and AK are elite assist guys for their positions. You know who else hardly got any assists, Jordan Hawkins. What were his shooting numbers against non cupcakes before the '23 NCAA tournament? Were people cherry picking his numbers?

Solo has had one dud game shooting the ball against a non cupcake this season, the last game against Butler.

Always appreciate peeps sticking up for guys, but it’s not just his assist numbers it’s all numbers outside of 3s, in particular now that we are in league play (look at his last 5 games). He’s not Hawk, and not going to be a lottery pick for his shooting prowess. There should be an expectation he does more. Our 2G last year averaged 5 rebounds and almost 4 assists per game. Just need him more all around active not just focused on hunting threes. I hope it comes, pulling for him.

 

[navery12]

Always appreciate peeps sticking up for guys, but it’s not just his assist numbers it’s all numbers outside of 3s, in particular now that we are in league play (look at his last 5 games). He’s not Hawk, and not going to be a lottery pick for his shooting prowess. There should be an expectation he does more. Our 2G last year averaged 5 rebounds and almost 4 assists per game. Just need him more all around active not just focused on hunting threes. I hope it comes, pulling for him.

But you're just picking arbitrary things to care about, and those things are not what Solo is being asked to do. Criticizing him for not being a 1:1 match to last year's 2 guard is a weird route to take. We're not trying to recreate a replica of last year's team, Dan Hurley is trying to put together an offense and defense that works for this year's team. And spoiler, we've looked really good the last 4 weeks, and that includes Solo Ball

 

[RuffRuff]

But you're just picking arbitrary things to care about, and those things are not what Solo is being asked to do. Criticizing him for not being a 1:1 match to last year's 2 guard is a weird route to take. We're not trying to recreate a replica of last year's team, Dan Hurley is trying to put together an offense and defense that works for this year's team. And spoiler, we've looked really good the last 4 weeks, and that includes Solo Ball

I get it - he should have a unique set of expectations based on his skillset and this teams overall makeup, the recognition is simply that some of the all around expectations that come with being a starter look to be more of an effort issue.

You can’t tell me that Hurley is saying to forget looking for the open man, or making the extra pass or going after rebounds. These are things that are fully woven into the Hurley system. Last years team was a full team rebounding group, and this year we are 134th in the country in rebounding.

Maybe Hurley is saying your only job is hunting threes, but seems unlikely. Or maybe he’s having a young guy focus on one thing at a time, starting with defense. Will be fun to watch play out. As of right now the 2G is our weakest link, so hoping Solo finds ways to contribute that are more than just threes.

As for picking stats, I do think it’s more than fair to separate the sub 300 KP teams from top 100. Those games were track meets and rec looking basketball.

 

[REB1094]

Solo isn’t Hawkins, but their stats against the first 8 non-cupcakes are surprisingly similar

Solo Ball: 12.1 PPG, 39.2% FG and 2.5 3PM/gm at 38.5%

Jordan Hawkins: 15.8 PPG, 40.2% FG and 3.0 3PM/gm at 38.1%

I agree with the earlier post that Solo is showing to be a much better shooter than we expected, and not as developed everywhere else as we expected. If he’s going to be strictly a shooter then it feels like a waste of his talent, but I’ll trust the staff there since he’s doing a great job shooting and Liam is shaping up to be the 3 level scoring lead anyway

I’m fine with him not getting assists because his role on offense is closer to Hawkins than Cam. But I’d like to see him be a better rebounder and defender given he’s a freak athlete and built like a tank

 

[Palatine]

Always appreciate peeps sticking up for guys, but it’s not just his assist numbers it’s all numbers outside of 3s, in particular now that we are in league play (look at his last 5 games). He’s not Hawk, and not going to be a lottery pick for his shooting prowess. There should be an expectation he does more. Our 2G last year averaged 5 rebounds and almost 4 assists per game. Just need him more all around active not just focused on hunting threes. I hope it comes, pulling for him.

I think he is doing what Hurley has asked him to do. Play inside himself. Don't force things. Any team would like to have a 40% three point shooter who is over 80% from the foul line and doesn't turn the ball over.

I expect him to improve at both ends of the court. He has the size and athleticism to be a good defender. He is second on the team in steals per game and has shown good anticipation on defense. Most importantly, he is not a finished product. There is more to come.

 

[navery12]

I get it - he should have a unique set of expectations based on his skillset and this teams overall makeup, the recognition is simply that some of the all around expectations that come with being a starter look to be more of an effort issue.

You can’t tell me that Hurley is saying to forget looking for the open man, or making the extra pass or going after rebounds. These are things that are fully woven into the Hurley system. Last years team was a full team rebounding group, and this year we are 134th in the country in rebounding.

Maybe Hurley is saying your only job is hunting threes, but seems unlikely. Or maybe he’s having a young guy focus on one thing at a time, starting with defense. Will be fun to watch play out. As of right now the 2G is our weakest link, so hoping Solo finds ways to contribute that are more than just threes.

As for picking stats, I do think it’s more than fair to separate the sub 300 KP teams from top 100. Those games were track meets and rec looking basketball.

Not sure what stat you're looking at for rebounding, but adjusted for pace we have been a very good rebounding team. That was raised as a concern all off-season, but has ended up not being a weakness at all.

It is fair to separate the sub 300 KP teams, and as I've already pointed out in this thread it changes nothing about his numbers. He's been playing just as well against top competition.

I know you just like to complain and claim it's your unbiased views that nobody understands, but you're just not living in reality with the majority of what you think you're seeing with this UConn team and Solo Ball in particular

 

[AntG168]

Numbers aside I’ve been beyond pleased with Solo offensively. Not worried about his shooting in the slightest

 

[ctbro1999]

Numbers aside I’ve been beyond pleased with Solo offensively. Not worried about his shooting in the slightest

I mean every player has off games. Hell, arguably the best 3 point shooter in NBA history went 0-7 from the field (0-6 from 3) just a few days ago. It happens. Freaking out about a specific game or 5 game stretch is very alarmist.

 

[3rdbass]

The players who are not the core,( Hass, AK, Liam and Reed) will be factors in different games the way Solo was with Xavier.
Sometimes Stew, maybe Mahaney or Ross but they are all role players on this team with apparently limited minutes except for Solo, and I think he will be in that productive core by season end. I still consider Johnson a role player overall because of his limited floor time dictated by fouls and his lack of rebounding.
I agree that the way for this team to be great is defense which is how those other guys get on the floor.

I wouldn't put Reed in there without Samson Johnson. They both have had their minutes this year to excel and are true two headed monster with the different traits they bring to us. The thing I don't want to see is where they both have horrible games at the same time like they did against Butler.

 

[lateralous]

I mean every player has off games. Hell, arguably the best 3 point shooter in NBA history went 0-7 from the field (0-6 from 3) just a few days ago. It happens. Freaking out about a specific game or 5 game stretch is very alarmist.

I don't see anyone freaking out but I do feel like the 2 spot is now the biggest question mark on the team. By the time we get to single elimination in March, it's fair to question what they do if Solo has an off night shooting. They need to be getting a lot more than what he currently provides if the 3 point attempts aren't going down to justify him staying out there.

There is obviously plenty of time during the conference schedule to see how it evolves between him, Mahaney and Ross, three guys who each have huge holes in the game right now. The competition for minutes and their development in Jan/Feb should be fun to watch.

 

[RuffRuff]

Not sure what stat you're looking at for rebounding, but adjusted for pace we have been a very good rebounding team. That was raised as a concern all off-season, but has ended up not being a weakness at all.

It is fair to separate the sub 300 KP teams, and as I've already pointed out in this thread it changes nothing about his numbers. He's been playing just as well against top competition.

I know you just like to complain and claim it's your unbiased views that nobody understands, but you're just not living in reality with the majority of what you think you're seeing with this UConn team and Solo Ball in particular

Coming from the guy vehemently proclaiming Stew is a locked in first rounder in the preseason . One has to appreciate the different perspectives without taking it personal or labeling it as “complaining” as much as it is banter and dialogue. Look I just learned you’re looking at rebounding adjusted for pace, which is a smart data point, which lead me to check out our rebounding margin which is much better than our rebounds per game. Thank you very much.

 

[Waquoit]

You want to be a blue blood or not?

I don't think being a blue blood is license to kill your own guys. I always thought we were better than Kentucky. Perhaps I was wrong again.

 

[ctchamps]

I don't see anyone freaking out but I do feel like the 2 spot is now the biggest question mark on the team. By the time we get to single elimination in March, it's fair to question what they do if Solo has an off night shooting. They need to be getting a lot more than what he currently provides if the 3 point attempts aren't going down to justify him staying out there.

There is obviously plenty of time during the conference schedule to see how it evolves between him, Mahaney and Ross, three guys who each have huge holes in the game right now. The competition for minutes and their development in Jan/Feb should be fun to watch.

It's been fun to watch already. Also fun to watch are the modifications the coaching staff is making while our players are working on their game.

For instance, Solo was a bad passer even in the cupcake games. So the staff altered his role having him focus on scoring instead of distributing and scoring.

I've noticed that on several occasions Solo is bringing the ball up court after an opposing made basket. Same with Ross, McNeeley and Mahaney. Why? Because it gives these players an opportunity to develop their dribbling skills while surveying what's happening in front of them without the pressure of the clock. It's game time practice without much liability in the half court offense.

Until Solo becomes the defender we believe he can be, and until Jaydon becomes the player who can contribute on offense the way I believe he can, Hurley has been platooning these players at the end of close games. I've seen Solo help on defensive rebounding and covering Johnson's player on the high hedge lately where in the beginning of the season he just looked lost. Jaydon's posture on the court has significantly improved. He is our second best perimeter defender and best perimeter rebounder. When these guys put it all together this team will hum.

 

[HooperScooper]

It's been fun to watch already. Also fun to watch are the modifications the coaching staff is making while our players are working on their game.

For instance, Solo was a bad passer even in the cupcake games. So the staff altered his role having him focus on scoring instead of distributing and scoring.

I've noticed that on several occasions Solo is bringing the ball up court after an opposing made basket. Same with Ross, McNeeley and Mahaney. Why? Because it gives these players an opportunity to develop their dribbling skills while surveying what's happening in front of them without the pressure of the clock. It's game time practice without much liability in the half court offense.

Until Solo becomes the defender we believe he can be, and until Jaydon becomes the player who can contribute on offense the way I believe he can, Hurley has been platooning these players at the end of close games. I've seen Solo help on defensive rebounding and covering Johnson's player on the high hedge lately where in the beginning of the season he just looked lost. Jaydon's posture on the court has significantly improved. He is our second best perimeter defender and best perimeter rebounder. When these guys put it all together this team will hum.

Jaydon? That's a new one. Today is Festivus so I'll add that one to my "airing of grievances" of misspellings of our players' names.

Jaydon - Jayden
Sampson - Samson
Aiden - Aidan
Jaylen - Jaylin

And my all time favorite one: Tristan - Tristen

Those are just first names. I won't even go into the last names. There, my grievances have been aired on Festivus.

 

[controlfade]

Always appreciate peeps sticking up for guys, but it’s not just his assist numbers it’s all numbers outside of 3s, in particular now that we are in league play (look at his last 5 games). He’s not Hawk, and not going to be a lottery pick for his shooting prowess. There should be an expectation he does more. Our 2G last year averaged 5 rebounds and almost 4 assists per game. Just need him more all around active not just focused on hunting threes. I hope it comes, pulling for him.

not to mention that he can not guard anyone! He is playing 10" off his guy so he doesnt get driven on and it opens his guys for catch and shoot 3's. I like Ball but unfortunately the only thing he does really well is shoot.