Brenda Frese: Elite or Very Good, that is the question

[DefenseBB]

For most UConn fans and ardent BY posters, what I am about to write about Brenda is well known, but for those new forum members, welcome to the BY and in 'insight" pn how may posters view WCBB and why our forum is the best forum for WCBB.

In the Big Ten Coaching ranking that I did, I qualified Brenda Frese as a Very Good Basketball Coach in the 2nd tier of coaches and a certain Hall of Famer in Springfield, just not an Elite Basketball coach in the vein of Tara, Geno, Kim, Dawn. That is actually very high praise to say someone is VERY GOOD at their profession.

Brenda Frese has a GREAT resume- 1 NC, 2-Final Fours, 17-NCAA appearances, 1-WNIT, 5-Big 10 titles, 6-regular season titles, a 206-30 Big Ten record (.873 winning percent), 1 ACC title. But as you peel back the onion and see each layer up-close, the resume is very good, but not elite. To wit:

• Her Ball State and Minnesota teams never won a conference title and she leveraged her 1 year at MN to get the Maryland job.
• 12 years in the ACC and she won 1 ACC title (tournament and regular season same year-2009)-not exactly dominant.
• In the 12 yrs in the ACC, Maryland was 2nd or tied for 2nd twice. She was 3rd-5 times, a 4th, a 5th and 2-9th place finishes. As I said, not dominant.
• When Maryland joined the Big Ten in 2015, it was ranked 5th in WCBB conferences so their dominance of Big Ten titles is not as impressive as one would think. In 96 Sweet 16 slots (16x6 tournaments since joining the Big Ten), the conference Ten has garnered 10 of those spots with 4 coming last year. Not exactly dominant and for comparison, PAC-12 has 23, ACC-21, SEC-16, Big12-11 (again, the Big 12 is in trouble).
• Maryland made 16 NCAAT in the last 17 years with 6 second round exits, 4 Sweet 16 departures, 3 Elite 8 demises and 2 Final Fours (2011/2012) to go with her 1 Title in 2006.
• Her last 5 post season have fizzled out at 2nd rd, Sweet 16, 2nd rd, 2nd rd, Sweet 16 despite an average win/loss of 30-4 and average ranking of 7th over those 5 years (3rd, 5th, 3rd, 16th, 9th, 8th). Maryland underachieved their seeding in all 5 seasons of NCAAT action during the Big Ten tenure.
• In the last 17 seasons of Rankings, Maryland made 16 NCAAT and over-achieved their ranking 3 times (2004-not ranked, made to 2nd Rd, 2006-Won Title, 2011-Ranked 18th made Sweet16), matched their ranking 6 times and underachieved their ranking 7 times (the last 5 years plus-2005. 2007). An "Elite" coach would certainly coach up their team at a crucial time.

What Brenda has done extremely well at is recruit, manage defections and find and promote assistants who have gone on to other programs and succeeded.
Notably 3 other P5 coaches in Jeff Walz, Joanna Bernabei-McNamee and Tina Langley.

Again, she's a VERY GOOD Coach but not on the Mount Rushmore of active Coaches.

What say you my fine BY breathren?

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I've said this many times over the years. Don't like Brenda. Watching (this was over 10 years ago) the "Under the Shell" inside look at the program (basically, their coach's show equivalent) it always seemed based on rah-rah ism.

I'm sure she can coach. I also know from time to time that her assistants have gotten a lot of credit for the game plans. On and off there were whiffs of "interesting" recruiting techniques.

I'll except that she isn't a Geno or Tara.

 

[undersized]

In the other thread (not sure why this needed its own thread lmao), I simply pointed out that by the criteria you yourself set forth, Brenda is Elite. Your definition was: multiple NCAA Titles and Conference titles and dominating their conferences. Brenda has dominated her conference. She may only have one national title, but so does Dawn at this point. So if you're actually using your own criteria, Dawn isn't Elite (yet) either.

And of all things, you're saying Brenda's time at Ball State and Minnesota should count as negatives against her because she never won conference titles? She was with each program for just 2 years and turned each one around in a major way.

Look, I have no horse in this race. I'm not a fan of Maryland or Brenda in particular. I'm just pointing out your own inconsistencies. Have fun with your labels tho ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[Plebe]

How can anyone question whether she's a great coach when her pregame and halftime speeches are so epic!

 

[eebmg]

How can anyone question whether she's a great coach when her pregame and halftime speeches are so epic!

Ready Coach

 

[Stymie]

Big hit by band Bread, 1967
“It Don’t Matter To Me”

 

[TerpWomenFan]

Not too much to say. Brenda performance in the Big 10 has been outstanding. I think she's been in the title game every year. The Big 10 hasn't gotten the credit they deserve because all teams tend to under-perform in the NCAA tournament, including Maryland. After the 2014 and 2015 Final 4 seasons, Brenda was Elite. She has taken a step back because of disappointing NCAA results but her regular seasons has been as good as almost anyone. The 2021-22 and 2022-23 seasons will really define her legacy because the Terps will be legit top 5 teams both seasons.

 

[Iluvacc2]

Geno, Tara, and Kim are at the top of the coaching tree. Dawn, Brenda, Vic, Jeff Walz, etc are a notch below. I would’ve included Muffet (favorite around here I know ) in the top group with Geno and Tara, anyone that racked up as many wins against him as she did is deserving of kudos.

I’ve seen many MD games and a few practices, Brenda goes over everything in relation to offense and defense, those pre-game rah rah speeches are entertaining for fans and players, they love that kinda stuff, but make no mistake she doesn’t get the credit she deserves when it comes to coaching and player development.

Also, something of a pet peeve is the notion that Jeff Walz has a national championship as a head coach, yes he did draw up the play that led to Toliver’s game tying three, but Frese was and is the head coach.

 

[YSRFrisbee]

If we use the March Madness alliteration/definition of “Elite”, Coach Frese only needs to be in the top 8 coaches list. So for many, yes… she is Elite

“In a world where you can be anything… be KIND”

 

[UcMiami]

I would agree that Brenda is below elite in a universe where Elite is defined as exceptional - if we are defining the handful of top coaches Geno, Pat, Tara, Kim, and Muffet are my '5' in the modern era and I don't see anyone else currently coaching who matches their resumes. Dawn looks like she will join their ranks soon, but she still has some work to do.

Yeah, I think Brenda gets a bit of a bum rap on the boneyard, but I think great coaches need to perform to expectations or surpass them in the post season, not under perform. I also think regular season scheduling is too easy to manipulate - she (and Kim, by the way) have been known for ducking competition in the regular season. She in recent years has improved in this area.

 

[sweetspot]

She left the ACC with the fifth-highest winning percentage ever (.752, behind MM, Walz, GG and McCallie) and she's on pace for the single-highest winning percentage ever in the Big Ten. Seems elite to me. There's value in longevity.

 

[Rooster C.]

My take on Freese is that she has been her own worst enemy. If not for losing major recruits(STARTERS)she would have been fighting for a title most years. You guys know the players I'm talking about, most of which have gone on to play in the W. It looks like her recruiting is now starting to take a hit because of that reputation.

 

[triaddukefan]

My least favorite coach. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Plebe]

My least favorite coach. I'll just leave it at that.

Because 2006?

 

[DEpup]

I think she is pretty much crazy but seems to be able lure in recruits. Many don't stick around though. Her transfer percentage lately is through the roof. I think Walz played a bigger role in MD success then he gets credit for. There are a plethora of coaches I would place ahead of her. Putting her name in the same sentence or even paragraph as Geno, Pat, and Tara is just plain wrong.

 

[GoingPostal]

In the other thread (not sure why this needed its own thread lmao), I simply pointed out that by the criteria you yourself set forth, Brenda is Elite. Your definition was: multiple NCAA Titles and Conference titles and dominating their conferences. Brenda has dominated her conference. She may only have one national title, but so does Dawn at this point. So if you're actually using your own criteria, Dawn isn't Elite (yet) either.

And of all things, you're saying Brenda's time at Ball State and Minnesota should count as negatives against her because she never won conference titles? She was with each program for just 2 years and turned each one around in a major way.

Look, I have no horse in this race. I'm not a fan of Maryland or Brenda in particular. I'm just pointing out your own inconsistencies. Have fun with your labels tho ¯\(ツ)/¯

You and defense bb can have your discussion about elite not elite etc. All I know is anytime there was a MD v. Uconn matchup MD got taken to the woodshed. Brenda is an above average coach who underp performed with the talent she has.

 

[triaddukefan]

Because 2006?

Sometimes I need anger to fuel me through a gym workout... now I have it.

 

[sweetspot]

You and defense bb can have your discussion about elite not elite etc. All I know is anytime there was a MD v. Uconn matchup MD got taken to the woodshed. Brenda is an above average coach who underp performed with the talent she has.

Recruiting and player development are both part of a coach's purview, and she does both way more than "above average."

 

[Stymie]

Well, Maryland pays her $27k a week to Coach.
I’d say that makes her elite.

 

[GoingPostal]

Recruiting and player development are both part of a coach's purview, and she does both way more than "above average."

Really? Results when it counts, outside the Big 10, tell a different story.

 

[sweetspot]

Really? Results when it counts, outside the Big 10, tell a different story.

She’s had some disappointing postseasons, but that doesn’t minimize the program she’s built. If she’s an “above average” coach, then you’d take 30% to 40% of the other Power Five coaches before her to lead your team, right?

 

[Plebe]

Y'all know you wanted to hear this.

 

[JellyBean]

She is an ELITE coach in my eyes. To have a winning record of 569-161/.779 and to keep Maryland WBB in the conversation for 20 years is ELITE status. Keep in mind. Maryland was a decent program in the 80s and 90s and once Brenda took over, she has just kept that program moving and taking it to new heights. Plus her ability to develop the talent that she is able to bring to Maryland puts her in the ELITE status.

 

[DefenseBB]

My least favorite coach. I'll just leave it at that.

Aw come on, even I detest Sylvia Hatchell as one of my all-time dislikes and she's at your MOST-DESPISED school. Brenda is worse than her? It's like, I don't even know who you are anymore...

*Yes, that emoji was the closest thing to Carolina Blue that I could find to fuel that anger

 

[DefenseBB]

In all seriousness, I probably should have added a Poll with 3 options:
-Elite
-Very Good
-Other

I will say that I am more open to viewing Brenda in better light since I worked in Baltimore in 2019 and 2020 and went to 5-6 games each year at College Park. She can recruit and promote the heck out of that program. I have her in that notch below list with the likes of Vic, Scott Rueck and Jeff Walz who all trail her a bit. While the Big Ten was weak when she joined them in 2015, she's helped elevate that conference and is just as dominant and is achieving sustained success. The biggest hiccup to me are the 5 years of poor NCAAT results after those 2 Final Fours. She hasn't even past the Sweet 16 with a top 8 team. She has one of her strongest teams ever this year with the unfortunate timing of likewise stronger teams in Stanford, UConn and SC. I will also say, if she wins another title she would vault up into the "Elite" category for me.

Great replies and some sound thinking that have prompted me to rethink as well. Thank you all.