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Gurleyman said:
Not sure he's overrated any more. You might have been able to make that case last year, but he basically had a whole new team this year and had to start from scratch and won big again. It would be one thing if he just had the Final Four run with somebody else's recruits playing one particular style, but this year's team was different - younger, no real go-to offensive player or veteran presence, and he still won. They didn't have the JJ Barea clone at point guard or the 3-point shooting big man that made their system so effective in their Final Four run. And they were really a couple missed foul shots from their only senior away from a Sweet 16.
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And he's only losing one senior so he's primed to win another 25-30 games next year.
 
Matt Painter??? Lmao, wow, this is when trying to be Hollinger goes wrong.
 
Jay Wright or Matt Painter? How exactly is Shaka Smart overrated?
 
21Huskies said:
No thanks.

never has an efficient offense, never has an efficient defense. he's smart in the sense he realizes that and plays a helter skelter style that disrupts the normal flow of a game... but when the game normalizes, his teams haven't proven to be very good on either side of the ball.

better talent can't certainly change the efficiency and i don't know who the right answer is, but i'll take a pass on him here and i see him as a much bigger risk than a school like UConn should need to take.
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Not so sure what the efficiency stats were for UConn in the early-90's but it sounds like you described UConn's brand of ball from then. Good coaches evolve as the talent base evolves.

Plus you can't teach the fire that Shaka has.
 
21Huskies said:
Ollie, obviously, is a bigger risk. he's completely unknown rather than somewhat successful, somewhat unknown and somewhat overrated like Shaka.

I never said Ollie was the answer. i said 'i don't know the answer'.

if i was forced to pick someone, i'd prefer a coach like Sean Miller, possibly a Jay Wright (i'd have to think that thru a little closer tho) or a Matt Painter. My 'risk' choice would be Brad Stevens or Gregg Marshall before taking a stab on Shaka.

if it came down to Ollie and Shaka... i really wouldn't know who my choice would be.
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I'm with ya on the Sean Miller idea, but Shaka would be a close second. Plus I don't believe Miller is gonna leave Zona. I can't imagine Stevens at UConn, he seems too Midwestern for me. However, Greg Marshall would be an intriguing hire, but I'd still prefer Shaka over those that you mentioned except for Miller.
 
Yeah....if these last two years haven't taken the shine off of Jay Wright, I don't know what will.

On a related note, Maalik Wayns and Dom Cheek (yes, Dom Cheek) have said they're leaving, or at least considering leaving, for the NBA. Villanova is going to stink once again next year.
 
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yea Wright is pretty laughable at this point as well, I don't think it's possible to do less after a Final 4 at a major program than what Wright has done.
 
Ironically one of the biggest things that could prevent Shaka Smart from someday becoming UConn's next head coach are rumors about it. Think about Jim Calhoun's reaction to something like this. If he wants a say in his replacement and because he KNOWS he's earned the right to say when/if he hangs it up, idle rumors such as this simply provide more motivation for him to keep chasing windmills. I would not put it past Jim Calhoun to keep coaching until Shaka Smart is AARP eligible.
 
Wright has a 231-115 record as a head coach. has proved he can recruit. sure he's a had a few subpar years, but the idea that a guy is a great coach after a few good seasons then a bad coach after a few bad ones is pretty poor way to analyze.

Matt Painter is 41 years old and has a career record of 160-77. his teams play a very efficient brand of basketball.

I want someone who has won, who has a history of recruiting or coaching top talent and someone who is young and energetic. the guys i named earlier are guys i think would come in and give us an opportunity to continue to be a top notch hoops school with fairly little risk.

if a guy like Smart is hired and it flops, we turn into an Illinois or Maryland type program... i don't think we should take on a risk like that with the leverage we have as being a top athletic program.

this year VCU had the 97th adj O efficiency this year and the 22nd adj D.
last year his adj O was 32nd and his adj D was 86th.
the year before that they were 26th adj O and 86th adj D.

as the head coach of VCU, Smart has a 38-16 conference record in the Colonial Athletic Association and a 46-11 record outside of conference. That further tells me that his style is one that if unprepared (like a tournament setting) can really disrupt what your team is trying to do. But, if you're familiar with his teams and can properly prepare for them and get into your normal half court offenses and defenses they are very beatable.

i'm not saying he's a horrible coach... he's clearly a nice, young head coach with passion for the game that makes him very likeable. i just think there are better options with similar upside and much less downside.
 
Ricky1Moore said:
The best part of the Shaka idea is what it would do to the media coverage of Uconn.. a virtual 180... they are all up on his jock
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+1
 
Jay Wright has arguably recruited better than UCONN the last several years and his teams have sucked. Hiring Matt Painter will make our program Maryland or Illinois like.

I respect your opinion, I just strongly disagree. Shaka would absolutely KILL it recruiting at Uconn and would have an awesome style of play to watch.
 
You say you want someone who has won, but then you degrade Smart because of efficiency?

I know you'll probably soon get on your basketball high horse and rant about metrics and how we're all living in the stone age, but if it basketball was only about efficiency, Bo Ryan would be considered one of the best coaches in the history of the game.

Shaka Smart has accomplished more than Matt Painter ever has, and arguably more than Wright ever has.
 
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don't get caught up in the names i'm saying.

i wasn't recommending anyone really... again, i don't have the answer. and i said i'd have to look deeper into Wright because he's crapped out with some good players so thats a concern.

moreso, my point is that i don't think Smart is a good choice in a risk/reward standpoint. if he comes, i'll be the first person to congratulate him and hope he knocks it out of park.

and i disagree with your opinion on Painter, i think he's a really good coach.
 
johnhuskies95 said:
You say you want someone who has won, but then you degrade Smart because of efficiency?

I know you'll probably soon get on your basketball high horse and rant about metrics and how we're all living in the stone age, but if it basketball was only about efficiency, Bo Ryan would be considered one of the best coaches in the history of the game.

Shaka Smart has accomplished more than Matt Painter ever has, and arguably more than Wright ever has.
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Bo Ryan, in my opinion, is one of the best coaches in the history of the game. You need the talent to win championships and he isn't one of the best recruiters and many top players don't want to play in that style and thats half the battle. But in terms of in game coaching, there aren't many, if any, better. Izzo would be the only i'd take over him in game. Unfortunately, talent is more important than coaching most of the time.

So i'm looking for the hybrid between Calipari recruiting and Bo Ryan coaching. Only guy i know like that is Izzo and we aren't getting him.

Bo actually had to accomplish something to get where he is and has won at every level along the way. he isn't a Roy Williams type who was a high school coach who got a assistant job at UNC and fell into a Kansas and UNC job without ever really proving anything without superior talent.

you don't have to agree with me, i'm not trying to change peoples minds nor am i trying to act superior. i believe in efficiency and probability. i, 100%, believe that the most efficient teams (with the best talent) win championships. there are a few exceptions, like UConn last year, but over the history of the game most national champions have had top 15 adjO and adjD. i want coaches who have proven they can do that.
 
Painter's entire success @ Purdue(reaching the Sweet 16 2x) off one recruiting class, the Hummel, Moore, Johnson class and hasn't really done much to replenish the talent base. It's going to be interesting to see how Purdue does going forward now that the last of those guys is gone. Not really impressed by Painter, he's a midwest guy and hasn't really done a good job recruiting that area after that class, I can't see him succesfully recruiting an entirely new area(yes I know we're national, but our recruits are predominately east coast based).
 
again, my recommendations took me about 10 minutes to think up, nothing to really focus on. just young guys i could think of who had success at high levels, play efficient styles and could be potential candidates.

i do agree Painter did all his work with one recruiting class, thats a concern for sure.
 
21Huskies said:
Ollie, obviously, is a bigger risk. he's completely unknown rather than somewhat successful, somewhat unknown and somewhat overrated like Shaka.

I never said Ollie was the answer. i said 'i don't know the answer'.

if i was forced to pick someone, i'd prefer a coach like Sean Miller, possibly a Jay Wright (i'd have to think that thru a little closer tho) or a Matt Painter. My 'risk' choice would be Brad Stevens or Gregg Marshall before taking a stab on Shaka.

if it came down to Ollie and Shaka... i really wouldn't know who my choice would be.
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You're crazy...simple as that. The guy has won. His VCU record is 84-27. He won the CBI his first season. Went to the final four his second and went back to the NCAA and won his 1st round matchup this year. And this is at Virginia Commonwealth. would I take Sean Miller if he wanted the job? Sure. But there is no comparrison between Smart and kevin Ollie in terms of experience, in terms of success as a head coach.
 
21Huskies said:
Bo Ryan, in my opinion, is one of the best coaches in the history of the game. You need the talent to win championships and he isn't one of the best recruiters and many top players don't want to play in that style and thats half the battle. But in terms of in game coaching, there aren't many, if any, better. Izzo would be the only i'd take over him in game. Unfortunately, talent is more important than coaching most of the time.

So i'm looking for the hybrid between Calipari recruiting and Bo Ryan coaching. Only guy i know like that is Izzo and we aren't getting him.

Bo actually had to accomplish something to get where he is and has won at every level along the way. he isn't a Roy Williams type who was a high school coach who got a assistant job at UNC and fell into a Kansas and UNC job without ever really proving anything without superior talent.

you don't have to agree with me, i'm not trying to change peoples minds nor am i trying to act superior. i believe in efficiency and probability. i, 100%, believe that the most efficient teams (with the best talent) win championships. there are a few exceptions, like UConn last year, but over the history of the game most national champions have had top 15 adjO and adjD. i want coaches who have proven they can do that.
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The whole Bo Ryan doesn't recruit great talent is not really true. This year's team didn't have a whole lot of highly recruited guys, but his past teams have been full or 4 star guys with a couple of 5 star guys mixed in.

It's also incredibly hard to play at that pace and do well in the tournament. There is a really small margin of error. One slightly off shooting night can derail you.

Personally, I prefer the style that North Carolina plays at, where they try and get as many possessions as possible, while still playing pretty good defense.
 
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Painter's a very good coach. He just also played at Purdue, so I'm not sure how much interest he would have in leaving a place he could probably stay for his whole career. There's always the $ factor, but UConn also doesn't have a stable conference affiliation at the moment, so someone at Arizona or Purdue might not really look at UConn as a great step up currently.
 
the other point, which somebody else made is that you have to play to the talent you can recruit. You can't play power basketball with undersized guys and guys who are a step slower than the opposition. Upgrade the quality of the players and I have no doubt he can change his approach. I don't completely agree with you on the issue of conference wins vs non-conference wins either. while it is possible that the stuyle of play contributes to the disparity, I think there are lots of things that make it harder to win within your own league...part of it is familiarity, part of it is that conference teams tend to play each other tougher everywhere. You have to account for rivalries and everything else.
 
VCU lost to Indiana in this years NCAA tournament game by 2 points. Indiana with Yogi Ferrell at the point next year should be pre-season top 3.

As for VCU Shaka will have 1 of his best teams ever with next years edition of havoc-wreakers. VCU loses Bradley Burgess (if he made the free throws against Indiana VCU wins) but adds his brother Jordan Burgess next year. In addition you have to love the prospects of incoming Freshman Justin Tuoyo. He is the the quintessential VCU player. New addition and recruit Mo-Alie-Cox will be a havoc wreaker on D. Next years VCU team is going to be the most exciting 1 ever.

Shaka at UConn would be my choice and if it happens UConn fans are in for years and years of exciting basketball. JMHO
 
johnhuskies95 said:
The whole Bo Ryan doesn't recruit great talent is not really true. This year's team didn't have a whole lot of highly recruited guys, but his past teams have been full or 4 star guys with a couple of 5 star guys mixed in.

It's also incredibly hard to play at that pace and do well in the tournament. There is a really small margin of error. One slightly off shooting night can derail you.

Personally, I prefer the style that North Carolina plays at, where they try and get as many possessions as possible, while still playing pretty good defense.
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Nottttt quite. There are a couple good recruits but alot of 2-3 star guys. Look, Bo Ryan is ok, but not a good fit.

As for the UNC style, there is just no toughness there. I like Shakas VCU teams because they are tough, gritty, nasty.

Jay Wright is a good recruiter, terrible coach. Call him the Anti-Bo Ryan
 
I'm torn. If Ollie wanted to be at UConn for decades then I would say give him the job. If the rumors of him having NBA aspirations are true, then I'd say give it to Smart.
 
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bmayuc said:
Nottttt quite. There are a couple good recruits but alot of 2-3 star guys. Look, Bo Ryan is ok, but not a good fit.

As for the UNC style, there is just no toughness there. I like Shakas VCU teams because they are tough, gritty, nasty.

Jay Wright is a good recruiter, terrible coach. Call him the Anti-Bo Ryan
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Brian Butch was a top 10 player that EVERYBODY wanted. Ryan was somehow able to get him to redshirt a year and stay 5 years.

He's coached about 15 top 100 guys at Wisconsin, and he almost always gets them to stay for at least 3-4 years.

He's a very good coach, but it's not like he just doing this all with Wisconsin farmboys either.
 
Umm..... what's the buzz about this on campus and the powers that be? If this is true he is turning down major opportunities for a deal that is not guaranteed.
 
As a Husky fan, to the extent that the Dan Patrick rumor is true, I'm flattered as all get out that SSmart would consider us to be such a great landing place.

Further, regarding Kevin Ollie, man oh man, if given the option between KO, the unknown, maybe good, maybe not, or a proven commodity who has caught lightning in a bottle, who is a national figure, who everybody wants, who based on personality and name will be a great recruiter, who is young, who could be our coach for the next 20 years . . .

people, come on. This is about a big a softball as you're ever gonna get. SWING!
 
I like the idea of remaining in house but Ollie is the only in house candidate that I would consider (I know, I don't have a say in the matter). If what Doris said about KO (wanting to return to the NBA as a coach) is true, my stance would be 'you are one of us and will have a job here for as long as you want one' but there is no reason that job cannot be as an assistant. If he does want to be here for the remainder of his career, that is a different story.

One thing I love about the idea of Ollie (or Smart) is that we could potentially go 55-60 years with only two coaches. While this may be a tall order (and something that reasonably should never be an expectation).

We have no way of knowing how much truth, if any, is in this rumor. One truth that we absolutely can take from this however is that it is not unreasonable to believe that there will be at least a few bright, young, ambitious men's college basketball coaches lining up for the opportunity to take over this program once JC does call it a career.
 
Kitaman said:
Umm..... what's the buzz about this on campus and the powers that be? If this is true he is turning down major opportunities for a deal that is not guaranteed.
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He turned down Illinois and NC State. Good jobs, but not the cream of the crop.

His team is loaded for next year. Smart will have more prestigious offers.
 
My 2 cents. I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and this is long so feel free to ignore.

To me, 2 things have been pretty obvious over the last 2 decades:

1. No matter how great a program you are, you're probably going to drop off after a coaching legend leaves.
2. Even if you make the wrong hire when you replace your legend and drop off, you can bounce back quickly if you make the right hire the next time.

Pitino left Kentucky, Tubby took over and had great success with Pitino's recruits, then had less success, got fired, and Billy G took over. He of course was a complete disaster, but they hired PayPal and bounced right back.

Dean Smith left N.C. Bill Guthridge took over and had success with Smith's recruits, then he retired and they hired Matt Dougherty, who was a complete disaster. But they bounced right back with Roy.

Same with Indiana; Knight, Mike Davis, Crean, etc. Although Crean took a few years.

Those are 3 of the "big" 6 programs in college basketball history. To me there is no shame to me in having less success initially, because even the all time great programs have proven it's likely, but I understand if people feel differently.

I'm also of the belief that people value 1-2 years of good NCAA tournament results waaaaayy too much. There is just such insane variance in that tournament, and if any program should realize that it should be us. We went 49-5 in the Big East regular season the 3 years Ray was here and never even made the Final Four. Then last year 9-9 and bink, 3rd National Championship. It defies logic to some extent.

Brad Stevens made back to back championship games, but was one of the craziest plays I've ever seen in my whole life away from losing in the 2nd round. Would he be valued as highly if Nasir Robinson hadn't made an idiotic foul? Probably not. Shaka Smart's VCU team probably didn't even deserve to be in the tournament last year based upon their regular season resume. If they don't get in last year, do we even know who Shaka Smart is? Probably not. This isn't to say these guys aren't great coaches. They may be. They also might not be. Kevin Ollie isn't a sure thing. Neither is Mike Hopkins at the Cuse. Or Shaka or Stevens. There are no sure things.


So given that I would rather see Ollie get the job, because he's family, he's everything that has ever been great about UCONN basketball, it's what JC wants, I love him, and even if he fails it's been proven we can bounce back with a good hire post Ollie. We'll be able to leverage a brand new practice facility and 25 years of greatness on the court, and we'll get whoever the new "Shaka Smart" is 5 years from now. Because there will be someone, it's just how it works.
 
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