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the Q said:
The bar dues are a complete scam. It’s ridiculous to have them in this and age. Same with the bar exam in general.

Don’t even get me stated on the ABA who doesn’t think that their primary goal should be support attorneys and further the practice of law.
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When you mention "same with the bar exam" are you saying do away with the fee or do away the exam? My son just passed the bar in Illinois. It was postponed twice and eventually was completed online, at home, with certain security measures in place. The length/breadth of the exam was reduced in half. During the postponement there was a push to allow this years Illinois law school graduates to become lawyers without having to take the exam. I learned that Wisconsin is the only state that doesn't require a bar exam if you graduate from an in state accredited law school. How do the attorneys out there feel about eliminating exam requirement.
 
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QDOG5 said:
When you mention "same with the bar exam" are you saying do away with the fee or do away the exam? My son just passed the bar in Illinois. It was postponed twice and eventually was completed online, at home, with certain security measures in place. The length/breadth of the exam was reduced in half. During the postponement there was a push to allow this years Illinois law school graduates to become lawyers without having to take the exam. I learned that Wisconsin is the only state that doesn't require a bar exam if you graduate from an in state accredited law school. How do the attorneys out feel about eliminating exam requirement.
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imo the legal profession should be an apprentice model. And even the states that offer that seem to require nonsense like not getting paid.

but it’ll never happen because these too much fat to trim and higher Ed’s take in massive profits from law schools. Far more than undergrad cause they don’t need all the other bells and whistles
 
QDOG5 said:
When you mention "same with the bar exam" are you saying do away with the fee or do away the exam? My son just passed the bar in Illinois. It was postponed twice and eventually was completed online, at home, with certain security measures in place. The length/breadth of the exam was reduced in half. During the postponement there was a push to allow this years Illinois law school graduates to become lawyers without having to take the exam. I learned that Wisconsin is the only state that doesn't require a bar exam if you graduate from an in state accredited law school. How do the attorneys out feel about eliminating exam requirement.
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the bar exam is old and antiquated and doesn’t even resemble the practice of law (it’s actually malpractice since you aren’t doing proper research to answer problems).

It still exists because everyone else had to suffer through it
 
Machine Learning is going to play a number of the legal profession.

Most research will be done faster and cheaper using AI and much much much higher quality.

The quality part alone will be a killer.

This is where Lawyers are going to do their best work. Fight tooth and nail to protect their profession
 
QDOG5 said:
How do the attorneys out feel about eliminating exam requirement.
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It's an absurd memory exercise. The only component that even remotely forecasts one's ability to practice law is the part where they give you the file and ask you to analyze it (and they might have done away with that part, I have no idea). It seems like a rite of passage at this point and that's about it.
 
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QDOG5 said:
How do the attorneys out feel about eliminating exam requirement.
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it's even less indicative of competence than the logic games are on the LSAT but at the same time the industry would be worse off if there were 25% more lawyers running around out there than there are now.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
I’m not on the litigation side of things, so no, I won’t ever need to do that.
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sounds like you are keeping the licenses out of habit and they arent doing you any good. as soon as i hit 5 years of active practice in WA i'm not wasting the time and money on CT CLEs and bar dues.
 
I see there are 6 six states that have some combination of law school and apprenticeships. The apprentice route seems to result in a lower bar exam pass rate. Maybe Wisconsin has it correct- Beer, Cheese and no Bar Exam.
 
Chuck said:
the pain of CLE (NJ requires 50% of credits live!)
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Just an FYI that during the pandemic the NJ Bar relaxed the in person rule for CLEs. I made sure I got all mine done and the carry over for next time via the computer.
 
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UConn Esq said:
Just an FYI that during the pandemic the NJ Bar relaxed the in person rule for CLEs. I made sure I got all mine done and the carry over for next time.
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Yup! My two year cycle started in January. I spent the first month working from home with CLE's running the background. Done through 2021!

I practice in a very niche area and in a county where there are never any decent local live options. I go to an industry conference every couple years that gets me most of my live credits, but I'm always scrambling at the end for a few and have to go to some brutally boring session.
 
Next best thing is for the ABA to go under. They’re scum as well.

Let an organization with real integrity and leadership take over
 
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the Q said:
imo the legal profession should be an apprentice model. And even the states that offer that seem to require nonsense like not getting paid.

but it’ll never happen because these too much fat to trim and higher Ed’s take in massive profits from law schools. Far more than undergrad cause they don’t need all the other bells and whistles
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You mentioned apprentice programs. Actually, Northeastern Law in Boston, has one as the link below indicates.
www.northeastern.edu

Co-op - School of Law

www.northeastern.edu www.northeastern.edu

I wish I had that when I went to Law School. Theirs combines classes at the law school with job training.

Regarding some of the other posters comments on not needing to go to law school itself, I disagree.

Necessary legal concepts are taught such as what constitutes "consideration." or the bargained for exchange in contracts. Courses in evidence are necessary to understand admissibility and what is hearsay and what is not and what are the exceptions to the rule.

Not sure the so-called Socratic method of constant hypotheticals is such a great approach.

I am retired. I had enough of. It make you a cynic and often hard to trust others since you are trained to ferret out inconsistencies in what other people say. Their glass is half empty or entirely empty, and your glass better be full or almost full. Then, the unpredictability of judges and Commissioners. Never know if they will follow the law either. They have their whims too.
 
businesslawyer said:
Brilliant!
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Post/Handle
Doctor Hoop said:
I have two "inactive" medical licenses - PA and NJ - and haven't paid a dime since they went inactive.

Frickin' attorneys. ;)
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Handle/Post
UConn Esq said:
Just an FYI that during the pandemic the NJ Bar relaxed the in person rule for CLEs. I made sure I got all mine done and the carry over for next time via the computer.
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post/Handle!!!




goldmine thread.
 
the Q said:
imo the legal profession should be an apprentice model. And even the states that offer that seem to require nonsense like not getting paid.

but it’ll never happen because these too much fat to trim and higher Ed’s take in massive profits from law schools. Far more than undergrad cause they don’t need all the other bells and whistles
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Europe model is like this according to my colleagues in Germany. They essentially major in law as undergrads, then go through a process like CPAs do to become full Lawyers. There may be exams, I'm not sure. But there's no extra "law school".
 
BigErnMcCracken said:
It's an absurd memory exercise. The only component that even remotely forecasts one's ability to practice law is the part where they give you the file and ask you to analyze it (and they might have done away with that part, I have no idea). It seems like a rite of passage at this point and that's about it.
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Indeed. Believe me when I say that sitting in Oakland for 3 days in 1997, while only studying from old 1994 BarBri stuff from Kansas for a week or two didn't leave me feeling overconfident that I would be able to recall the details of the rule against perpetuities as applied in California. Fortunately, having written a number of pleadings in the prior 3 years I was confident on the written portion.

I will say, I was right, there are a lot of lawyers on this board.
 
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Chuck said:
Yup! My two year cycle started in January. I spent the first month working from home with CLE's running the background. Done through 2021!

I practice in a very niche area and in a county where there are never any decent local live options. I go to an industry conference every couple years that gets me most of my live credits, but I'm always scrambling at the end for a few and have to go to some brutally boring session.
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I took an in person 8 credit tax planning session the first year of required cle, only to have NJ decide it wasn’t fair and the gave us another year. Head bang
 
UCPharma11 said:
Any Boneyard Pharmacists here???
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No, but my wife works at CVS and I watched Breaking Bad. I think that qualifies us as a team. You guys just count pills and print out a label nowadays anyway, right? ;o)
 
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I was going to ask about the best eye drops for my emoji. That's all. I hope I'm not in trouble. Maybe I should retain an attorney.
 
Chuck said:
No, but my wife works at CVS and I watched Breaking Bad. I think that qualifies us as a team. You guys just count pills and print out a label nowadays anyway, right? ;o)
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LoL, does she count the pills for the pharmacists?
 
What does a pharmacist do that couldn't be replaced by machine learning and artificial intelligence?
 
UCPharma11 said:
LoL, does she count the pills for the pharmacists?
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Better, she has to refill the receipt rolls. She’ll never be out of a job because every customer receipt is 6 feet long!

She actually works for the company, not a store, but when I get my employee discount they always ask which store she works at so I just pick a random store.
 
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