Boneyard Badass Awards for Tulsa Victory. . .

[Kibitzer]

. . . go to Lou, Pheesa, and Gabby.

Acknowledge fine play by Saniya and Kia but no way to have four awards in a 40-point MOV.

In addition. . .

. . . the "Assistant Coach Sartorial Splendor Award" goes to Shea Ralph for that gorgeous floral ensemble.

 

[JordyG]

If Lou or Pheesa were given the green light to shoot 25-30 shots a night, like Plum, what would their numbers be?

 

[alexrgct]

KLS is developing a complete, beautiful, and badass game. The same was certainly on full display against Tulsa.

 

[Kaizen]

If Lou or Pheesa were given the green light to shoot 25-30 shots a night, like Plum, what would their numbers be?

Then ESPN will not talk about Plum anymore....LOL

 

[JordyG]

Then ESPN will not talk about Plum anymore....LOL

Then the UConn haters would note that ESPN would NEVER mention WCBB with referencing UConn.

 

[johnnyc]

Pheese.

 

[JordyG]

Pheese.

Teammates call her Pheesa.

 

[HumblePie]

If Lou or Pheesa were given the green light to shoot 25-30 shots a night, like Plum, what would their numbers be?

And we wouldn't nearly have the TEAM we have just the way things are.

 

[MilfordHusky]

Lou is cementing her AA selection. I think she's even out-shooting her sister.

 

[JordyG]

And we wouldn't nearly have the TEAM we have just the way things are.

Correct sir. That is why teams such as Washington, Ohio State and the like are fundamentally flawed, and why players such as Plum, excellent as they are, are not my type of players.

 

[Kibitzer]

Lou is cementing her AA selection. I think she's even out-shooting her sister.

Lou is out-shooting both of her sisters.

 

[alexrgct]

Lou is cementing her AA selection. I think she's even out-shooting her sister.

Absolutely. She's now at more than 21 ppg. Shoe-In for wbca recognition if this holds, plus she will be in consideration for national player of the year honors as well.

 

[Shorty Dee]

My award goes to Gabby, Lou and Pheesa.

 

[HumblePie]

If Lou or Pheesa were given the green light to shoot 25-30 shots a night, like Plum, what would their numbers be?

And we wouldn't nearly have the TEAM we have just the way things are.

Correct sir. That is why teams such as Washington, Ohio State and the like are fundamentally flawed, and why players such as Plum, excellent as they are, are not my type of players.

Hmmm, sounds a bit defensive (putting it nicely), even though I was simply agreeing with you.

 

[vtcwbuff]

Then ESPN will not talk about Plum anymore....LOL

Plum is averaging 19.9 shots per game in 37 minutes. Samuelson averages 15 shots per game in 32 minutes. Not so far apart when normalized for a 40 minute game.

 

[HumblePie]

Plum is averaging 19.9 shots per game in 37 minutes. Samuelson averages 15 shots per game in 32 minutes. Not so far apart when normalized for a 40 minute game.

Figures (stats) don't always tell the story. Kelsey Plum is playing within a system that is designed totally for her. She has the ball in her hands constantly throughout the game and therefore has the ability to dictate when and how she takes her shots. Additionally, every player on that team is constantly passing/feeding her the ball and setting screens/picks for her. Washington has played a much softer schedule than UConn to date, meaning the competition isn't nearly as strong. The fact that she's averaging five (5) more minutes per game, against weaker competition also speaks volumes. Washington wants her to score bushel baskets of points and win NPOY.

None of the above is being provided Samuelson. She's playing on a team that is bursting with very talented people at every position. I've already said (elsewhere here) that Lou averages about 4-6 shots per game (excluding Tulsa) she shouldn't be taking. She's a sophomore and her wings are still growing. She most definitely shouldn't be compared to senior Kelsey Plum. However, since you like comparisons, as a sophomore Plum's shooting percentage was 39%. Katie Lou is currently shooting 50%.

 

[UcMiami]

Plum is averaging 19.9 shots per game in 37 minutes. Samuelson averages 15 shots per game in 32 minutes. Not so far apart when normalized for a 40 minute game.

Interesting stat and glad you point it out - the same sort of numbers are probably out there for Maya and Stewie and Sales during their high scoring seasons as well. Per 40 minutes is a great leveler.

There is one added aspect that seldom gets noticed though, that is worth mentioning - without checking the stats I am pretty sure Plum is shooting significantly more free throws - I think she gets fouled in the act of shooting on shots she doesn't make perhaps two or three more times than Lou per game, and while those shot attempts do not get recorded as such, they really should in this kind of comparison. (+1 shots do get recorded as shots, two shot fouls do not.) If you take that into account Plum is probably at 22 or 23 attempts per game while Lou is probably at 16. The regularization to per 40 would still make it relatively close, and the difference is reflected in the difference is points per game for the two, and in efficiency (points per shot) Plum is a bit better than Lou for the same reason - those foul shots do not get factored into her shot totals.

 

[Bigpetunia]

You know, Kib, this thing you started has been great fun for all of us. But, I'm sure you'll agree, at least the starting five of this team is so incredibly balanced it's hard not to assume that, game after game, there will be multiple awards. For me personally, I've gotten to the point where the only question is, "who, besides Gabby, deserves this award today?" Talk about the very definition of badass!!!

 

[Kibitzer]

If I were a voter filling out my AA ballot the first two names I write down are Kelsey Plum and Katie Lou Samuelson.

 

[UcMiami]

HumblePie - Uconn is very definitely running more plays specifically to get Lou shots than any other player, and there is a huge difference between being the PG which is Plum's role, and being the primary option on offense which is Lou's role. Just as Moriah dominated the ball last year, Plum is doing the same for Washington. The fact that Washington does not have the stable of talent that Uconn does is a given - they are a team with two primary scorers and some nice supporting players, Uconn is more balanced with three primary scorers and two supporting players most of the time. I don't think anyone is trying to denigrate Lou or say that as a senior she will not be a different player than she is as a sophomore, but just trying to counteract some of the negativity expressed about Plum's game.

I don't see the four to six shots she shouldn't take each game, and I doubt Geno does either - I have yet to hear him lament that she isn't getting three or four more shots a game as he did with Stewart the last couple of years, but he certainly isn't reining her in either, and there may come a day when he does reprise that lament.

Interesting stats:
Lou - 25.6% of Uconn shots, 16% of minutes, 25.4% of points, one shot per 2.1 minutes of playing time

Plum - 31.6% of UW shots, 18.4 % of minutes, 35.7% of points, one shot per 1.9 minutes

(The ration of percentage of shots to percentage of points is startling for Plum and a reason the team wants her shooting. That is not normal for a guard/wing)

Also - Lou: assist 45 (2.6), TO 35 (2.1), blocks 6 (0.4), steals 23 (1.4), rebounds 71 (4.2)
Plum: assists 102 (5.1), TO 45 (2.3), blocks 5 (0.3), steals 40 (2.0), rebounds 108 (5.4)

Different positions on different teams at different stages of their careers against different competition - both great players!

 

[Bigpetunia]

If I were a voter filling out my AA ballot the first two names I write down are Kelsey Plum and Katie Lou Samuelson.

Of course, I could not disagree...both putting up some unbelievably gaudy figures. Now the badass thing, I dunno, it's your creation, but I think it has a slightly different connotation...a sort of "in your face" kind of thing that says to opponents, "take your best shot...but just watch, I'm gonna rip your heart out!" Heeere's Gabby!!

 

[DefenseBB]

Figures (stats) don't always tell the story. Kelsey Plum is playing within a system that is designed totally for her. She has the ball in her hands constantly throughout the game and therefore has the ability to dictate when and how she takes her shots. Additionally, every player on that team is constantly passing/feeding her the ball and setting screens/picks for her. Washington has played a much softer schedule than UConn to date, meaning the competition isn't nearly as strong. The fact that she's averaging five (5) more minutes per game, against weaker competition also speaks volumes. Washington wants her to score bushel baskets of points and win NPOY.

None of the above is being provided Samuelson. She's playing on a team that is bursting with very talented people at every position. I've already said (elsewhere here) that Lou averages about 4-6 shots per game (excluding Tulsa) she shouldn't be taking. She's a sophomore and her wings are still growing. She most definitely shouldn't be compared to senior Kelsey Plum. However, since you like comparisons, as a sophomore Plum's shooting percentage was 39%. Katie Lou is currently shooting 50%.

I am not sure if your point is KLS is a stronger POY than Plum or that Plum is overrated vs. her opponents and is a function of stat building. IMO Wash is at best an 8-12 Top rank team and a coleader of PAC12 with OSU. The PAC12 is deep in the 8-25 ranking but not in the Top 7 Nationally. Wash has only played at ND and lost. That said, Plum is needed for the 37 min as her team is not deep and the talent they have is needed to win against like skilled PAC12 teams. She's a great player and teammate (more than Mitchell) who does it all and more is asked of her because more is needed. Think of her and Oshahor as Stockton and Malone! KLS deserves POY finalist listing with Plum with Plum winning for her career contributions including this unbelievable senior year.

 

[HumblePie]

UcMiami - Sorry, I don't see a point being made in your rebuttal. All you've done is elaborated on what I've already stated. The one exception is that claim you don't see the four to six shot Lou takes on average per game that she shouldn't (except the Tulsa game). If that's truly the case, then I strongly suggest you actually start watching the games play by play. Every time she shoots when she's not in rhythm is a shot she shouldn't have taken. There's an old adage that says, "figures don't lie, but liars can figure." No, I'm not calling you a liar, but comparing stats of two players on different teams, playing against different competition, playing different positions, etc., is an argument that doesn't hold water. And, you yourself had already pointed that out. Your last statement makes me chuckle, "Different positions on different teams at different stages of their careers against different competition - both great players!" as it is again just an enhancement of what I stated previously.

 

[HumblePie]

I am not sure if your point is KLS is a stronger POY than Plum or that Plum is overrated vs. her opponents and is a function of stat building. IMO Wash is at best an 8-12 Top rank team and a coleader of PAC12 with OSU. The PAC12 is deep in the 8-25 ranking but not in the Top 7 Nationally. Wash has only played at ND and lost. That said, Plum is needed for the 37 min as her team is not deep and the talent they have is needed to win against like skilled PAC12 teams. She's a great player and teammate (more than Mitchell) who does it all and more is asked of her because more is needed. Think of her and Oshahor as Stockton and Malone! KLS deserves POY finalist listing with Plum with Plum winning for her career contributions including this unbelievable senior year.

I suggest you re-read what I wrote. Nothing contained within it suggests that I was pushing either player for NPOY. It was about people attempting to compare stats of one player vs. another player on a different team, against different competition, running different systems, playing different positions, with different roles.

 

[chrissaran]

Kelsey Plum shoots a lot because she's their best player and scorer, and unlike Kelsey Mitchell, she knows how to set her teammates up. Never group those two players together. There's a world of difference between the two.

 

[Kibitzer]

Of course, I could not disagree...both putting up some unbelievably gaudy figures. Now the badass thing, I dunno, it's your creation, but I think it has a slightly different connotation...a sort of "in your face" kind of thing that says to opponents, "take your best shot...but just watch, I'm gonna rip your heart out!" Heeere's Gabby!!

I did not say -- nor do I believe -- that Lou is a better (AA) player than Gabby. I rate them as comparable superlative players with different skills. (Clearly, Lou is a better shooter but Gabby is an incredible defender and rebounder.) As I imagined how I would cast my AA vote, I took refuge in the immutable rule of the legendary pool hustler, Minnesota Fats:

"Always take the easy shots first."​

 

[UcMiami]

UcMiami - Sorry, I don't see a point being made in your rebuttal. All you've done is elaborated on what I've already stated. The one exception is that claim you don't see the four to six shot Lou takes on average per game that she shouldn't (except the Tulsa game). If that's truly the case, then I strongly suggest you actually start watching the games play by play. Every time she shoots when she's not in rhythm is a shot she shouldn't have taken. There's an old adage that says, "figures don't lie, but liars can figure." No, I'm not calling you a liar, but comparing stats of two players on different teams, playing against different competition, playing different positions, etc., is an argument that doesn't hold water. And, you yourself had already pointed that out. Your last statement makes me chuckle, "Different positions on different teams at different stages of their careers against different competition - both great players!" as it is again just an enhancement of what I stated previously.

Washington wants her to score bushel baskets of points and win NPOY.

None of the above is being provided Samuelson. [/QUOTE
HP - Last night and every night Lou and pretty much every scorer takes 'shots that are not in perfect rhythm - and they typically make lots of them, and they take lots of shots that are in very good rhythm and they miss a lot of them - you can tell the ones that were perfect by the ones that go through the hoop is what I always say! Sure I have seen a few shots by Lou that were 'bad' until they went in and a few that were 'bad' that didn't go in. What I do notice is that there are a few games when she seems to lose her legs on her shot late in the third or into the fourth, though that certainly didn't happen against Maryland thankfully.
Lou is taking 26% of her teams shots - Collier gets 20%, and no one else gets more than 15% - so yes, UConn is running stuff for Lou, setting screens for Lou, and finding Lou a lot. Colliers 20% includes many more rebound/put backs than Lou as well - not designed or assisted.
Washington I am sure could care less if Plum wins the NPOY - they want to win games, and her shooting is the best way to do so. Just like the more involved Stewart was in games the last four years the better UConn's chance of winning. And if that meant she garnered personal accolades, bully for her.

 

[BroadwayVa]

If Lou or Pheesa were given the green light to shoot 25-30 shots a night, like Plum, what would their numbers be?

Singly or together shooting--with individual numbers if together on the floor--pretty much as they are now. If only one of them played on the team all other factors equivalent==Napheesa's numbers may be would be equal to Plum --I say Collier because she can shoot any where on the floor now that her 3 is going. Gabby has a 3 but not as accurate as Precious Collier.
Like her or leave her---Plum can shoot as is that kid from Tulsa.
I seriously doubt Geno is holding any on the team from scoring every point they can make. I believe they ALL have the green light, which turns red when they miss more than they should.

 

[JordyG]

Hmmm, sounds a bit defensive (putting it nicely), even though I was simply agreeing with you.

As I you.