Big Monday...

[cohenzone]

You need to read again. I didn't say one should cheer for ND to win, rather for TN to lose.....badly. One cannot cheer for TN to win, under any circumstances and be a UCONN fan. Turn in your UCONN fan card you, you proprietor of evil.

Unfortunately, they don't play ties. I'm not a UT fan, but someone has to win the game, so if not rooting for ND implies that I'm rooting for UT, that's the way the shamrock crumbles.


ND women's basketball has nothing to do with ND football.

The ND football players had nothing to do with it either. The evil of their empire infects all that wear it's colors. (I wish they'd decide if their colors are gold and green, or gold and blue, it affects the pen I use - I actually have a few of those antiquated things laying around).

And wrong again. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

I can't remember what I ate for breakfast. More importantly, I don't remember what league we play in. Maybe ND knows.

 

[meyers7]

Unfortunately, they don't play ties. I'm not a UT fan, but someone has to win the game, so if not rooting for ND implies that I'm rooting for UT, that's the way the shamrock crumbles.

Then you will have to live with your choice........forever.

The evil of their empire infects all that wear it's colors.

Just like Dante, there are levels of evil. ND football, yes is at a great, great evil level. And sure that evil spreads like a plague. However, we are talking about women's basketball. And in WBB there is no greater evil than TN Lady Vols.

 

[cohenzone]

Then you will have to live with your choice........forever.


Just like Dante, there are levels of evil. ND football, yes is at a great, great evil level. And sure that evil spreads like a plague. However, we are talking about women's basketball. And in WBB there is no greater evil than TN Lady Vols.

Personally, I've always been repulsed by the Lady Mules of Muhlenberg. Stubborn lot, those Mules.

 

[Icebear]

Personally, I've always been repulsed by the Lady Mules of Muhlenberg. Stubborn lot, those Mules.

Lutherans aren't called blockheads for nothing.

 

[CL82]

Agree. One cannot be a UCONN fan and root for TN.

 

[cohenzone]

One can root against ND.

 

[meyers7]

Ahh, I tried to make one of those and post it here. Couldn't get it to work.
Thank you!

 

[cohenzone]

Lutherans aren't called blockheads for nothing.

I will say, Muhlenberg more than fills its quota of Jewish kids. Tolerance is a beacon (this thread does not qualify). Beats the daylights out of ND. Yet, there is something about a Lady Mule that is off-putting. If they had called themselves the Lady Bergs, well then.....

 

[Jmpenn]

I think UCONN fans should be able to watch the game without having to root for either of the teams. Just cheer or smile each time a bad play is made or a shot is missed by either team. Then after the game just focus on the team that lost and forget about the one that won. If TN wins you move ahead of ND in both polls and get the pleasure of seeing ND lose. If ND wins then they stay highly ranked most likely until you play them again. It probably helps your SOS plus you get the pleasure of seeing TN lose. You should be able to find some joy in either result.

 

[Justavisitor]

I did do it for a number of teams whose players were mentioned in the thread about All Americans. Only Penn State had been called for more fouls than their opponents ((333-308). Other teams numbers were Baylor, by far the best, (224-336) ; Stanford (248-264) ; UConn (240-275) ; Maryland (285-319) ; Duke (266-275) Tenn 287-345) ; ND (264-322) and Delaware (234-272). Not sure where the surprise is.

Your original post indicated that TN gets some unfair number of fouls called against them when compared to other teams. However, after doing the math it lines up like this:

Baylor's opponents get called for 60% of the fouls
Notre Dame's opponents - 54.95%
Tennessee's opponents - 54.59%
Delaware's opponents - 53.75%
UConn's oppoments - 53.40 %
Maryland's opponents - 5281%
Stanford's opponents = 51.56%
Duke's opponents - 50.83%

There's actually only a 1% difference between TN and UConn, with ND barely above that, so not the discrepancy that was alluded to. In other words, TN doesn't get any more of a break than anyone else. Baylor's being so out of line is understandable considering Griner gets fouled quite a bit due to her overwhelming size and power.

 

[pinotbear]

. Yet, there is something about a Lady Mule that is off-putting. If they had called themselves the Lady Bergs, well then.....

Back when Ursusminor was a Gettysburg Bullet, I had a chance to visit Muhlenberg, and watch some softball. Didn't mind it at all, 'tho my little dog found the day to be a bit chilly for his liking. Now, what I really object to is CZ saying that lady mules are "off-putting". Mules are great animals - intelligent, curious, patient. I have a fondness for 'em, just from visiting the livestock wing of the Kentucky State Fair, many years when I was a child. They're handsome and strong. True, in one sense they're "off-putting" - they're almost always sterile (male mules always are). But, certainly warmer and friendlier than Lady Bergs!

 

[diggerfoot]

Your original post indicated that TN gets some unfair number of fouls called against them when compared to other teams. However, after doing the math it lines up like this:

Baylor's opponents get called for 60% of the fouls
Notre Dame's opponents - 54.95%
Tennessee's opponents - 54.59%
Delaware's opponents - 53.75%
UConn's oppoments - 53.40 %
Maryland's opponents - 5281%
Stanford's opponents = 51.56%
Duke's opponents - 50.83%

There's actually only a 1% difference between TN and UConn, with ND barely above that, so not the discrepancy that was alluded to. In other words, TN doesn't get any more of a break than anyone else. Baylor's being so out of line is understandable considering Griner gets fouled quite a bit due to her overwhelming size and power.

I hate it when people abuse statistics. It was only a minor for me, but at one point they figured prominently into my role as a program evaluator. A 1% difference can be significant depending on the numbers and context, just as a 10% difference could mean little. If the numbers above were in the 100-150 range this would be much ado about nothing. In reality they are at a range where for many a game just a two foul average difference between teams can mean the difference between 1 and 1, double bonuses and foul trouble. They are in a range where one team's opponents may be consistently sitting on the bench earlier due to foul trouble than another.

I'm not inclined to blame the refs in terms of "unfair" calls. Because of the number of games involved that should be factored out. If the numbers were broken into home and away games perhaps something surfaces, perhaps not. What you can conclude from this, despite the misleading 1% difference you framed it in, is that teams like Baylor, Notre Dame and particularly Tennessee are quite adept at drawing fouls in comparison to a second tier of teams, with Tennessee being the best of all. At almost 20 per game, versus 2-3 per game less, that means many times where Tennessee has gained an early advantage due to their ability to draw fouls. The UConn men were once very adept at the same thing so I'm not going to complain too much about it; it just bugs me when people pull a fast one with statistics.

 

[th73082]

I'm personally rooting for Tennessee. It pains me to do so, however, I can't stand Diggins or the ND Team and would like to see their cockiness brought down a couple notches.

 

[CL82]

Ahh, I tried to make one of those and post it here. Couldn't get it to work.
Thank you!

It was kind of quirky. You need to get out of the meme and then get back in.

 

[CL82]

One can root against ND.

of course, that goes without saying. Of course rooting against two teams in the same game is challenging.

 

[huskybill]

My original post called Tenn getting an unusual break at home a "theory." That's all it is. But ND is adept at getting fouls called on opponents when they drive. The Tenn theory was advanced by CharlieF at a boneyard meeting a few games ago. It so happened that I had looked at team fouls for a completely different reason when you asked about them. So I listed them for you. I think it interesting that almost all good teams commit fewer fouls than their opponents. You put your own interpretation on the stats I listed.

 

[huskybill]

I hate it when people abuse statistics. It was only a minor for me, but at one point they figured prominently into my role as a program evaluator. A 1% difference can be significant depending on the numbers and context, just as a 10% difference could mean little. If the numbers above were in the 100-150 range this would be much ado about nothing. In reality they are at a range where for many a game just a two foul average difference between teams can mean the difference between 1 and 1, double bonuses and foul trouble. They are in a range where one team's opponents may be consistently sitting on the bench earlier due to foul trouble than another.

I'm not inclined to blame the refs in terms of "unfair" calls. Because of the number of games involved that should be factored out. If the numbers were broken into home and away games perhaps something surfaces, perhaps not. What you can conclude from this, despite the misleading 1% difference you framed it in, is that teams like Baylor, Notre Dame and particularly Tennessee are quite adept at drawing fouls in comparison to a second tier of teams, with Tennessee being the best of all. At almost 20 per game, versus 2-3 per game less, that means many times where Tennessee has gained an early advantage due to their ability to draw fouls. The UConn men were once very adept at the same thing so I'm not going to complain too much about it; it just bugs me when people pull a fast one with statistics.

I don't think justavisitor was abusing or pulling a fast one about statistics. Justavisitor was just interpreting the stats I listed. There are many other interpretations that could be made besides yours. One is that opponents who are behind, foul to put the other team on the line. None of us, myself included, have been willing to take the time to check out the fouls on a game by game basis. Until then, we're all guessing as to what the stats really show.

 

[JS]

Until then, we're all guessing as to what the stats really show.

They really show that TN and ND are both cheating, unscrupulous teams in cahoots with cheating, unscrupulous refs.

 

[Justavisitor]

Thanks huskybill. You're right. I wasn't trying to pull anything. I wanted to convert it to %s because the total number of fouls called can fluctuate based on the officiating crew, style of play, etc. The % was easier for me to see how much descrepancy truly existed. It also made it easier to compare teams. I don't see much difference in the above metioned teams. Typically, over matched teams foul more. Also, as you stated, teams that get behind foul alot in the closing minutes. Alot of times, the opponent is smaller, slower, etc. and grabbing and holding is the only way they can keep up.

 

[choochoo]

Then you will have to live with your choice........forever.


Just like Dante, there are levels of evil. ND football, yes is at a great, great evil level. And sure that evil spreads like a plague. However, we are talking about women's basketball. And in WBB there is no greater evil than TN Lady Vols.

Geno has often said for it to be a significant rivalry both teams have to be able to win. We have seen that from no other than ND for 6 years!!! ND is the new evil empire

 

[msf22b]

You don't like Diggins; too bad, she's taken over the early part of the game.

 

[DaddyChoc]

say what you want about Diggins... she shows up, All-American performance tonight

 

[diggerfoot]

"Pulling a fast one" was overstepping my bounds; my apologies. I was not implying that the refs are bad (as I already stated), nor that teams are unscrupulous. As I said the UConn men used to be great at drawing fouls; I certainly did not condemn them.

If teams have consistently close games, then the fouling at the end could go either way and should balance themselves out. If a team like Baylor or UConn consistently overmatches an opponent then the fouling at the end of the game does not come into play. Differences between Baylor and UConn simply are not due to this factor. Tennessee could be because they've had closer games, but note that Tennessee themselves also foul quite a bit more, meaning once again that fouling at the end could have gone in both directions.

What I get from this data is that an opponent of Tennessee's likely gets into some type of foul difficulty on an average of 4-6 minutes earlier than Tennessee; with "second tier" foul discrepancies such as UConn that average appears to be 2-3 minutes earlier. You now can manipulate the data to say there's a 100% difference between Tennessee and UConn with foul discrepancy impact, which also would be very misleading.

These are averages. Sometimes the foul difficulty for the opponent happens even earlier; sometimes Tennessee or UConn even experiences the foul difficulty first. That does not mean Tennessee is doing anything wrong; that does not mean the refs are doing anything wrong. It is, indeed, a viable strategy to pursue. It's not an automatic game-changer, but it still is more significant than the 1% difference in foul discrepancy would lead one to believe, though less significant than the 100% difference in foul discrepancy impact would lead one to believe.

 

[Kibitzer]

I will say, Muhlenberg more than fills its quota of Jewish kids. Tolerance is a beacon (this thread does not qualify). Beats the daylights out of ND. Yet, there is something about a Lady Mule that is off-putting. If they had called themselves the Lady Bergs, well then.....

There was a time when there was a movement that wanted the Franklin & Marshall (Lancaster, Pa.) college football team to be referred to as the "Fighting Amish." The locals were reportedly not amused. No word of any reaction from ND alums living in the region.

 

[Kibitzer]

They really show that TN and ND are both cheating, unscrupulous teams in cahoots with cheating, unscrupulous refs.

JS, be reminded that it is improper for you to have TonyC write posts in your name.