Big East OOC thread

[MU in MKE]

Looks about right. 4 probables with a 5 on the fringe, with a cliff after the 5th spot.

Xavier will be fine. They'll be in. 5 is the floor. Odds are that at least one more will figure things out... there's just too many W's to pass around in conf play anyway.

My money is on DePaul anyway though!

But if you think that's bad, TeamRankings only has 3 ACC teams as "probables" by your definition. Out of 18!!! Yikes!

 

[BFieldHusky]

Guys, we are literally 2 weeks into the season...

 

[August_West]

His freshman look good but doubt they can replace all the talent graduating this year. Without transfers they will be villanova next year.

Nah that is an extreme take. They will be OK. Also, I think Shaka is pragmatic. He has a preferred method of program building/maintenance, but he will take a transfer when it aligns with his needs and culture. Shaka is not Kyle Neptune.

 

[Tiamat7]

St John's passes the eye test. RJ Luis clearly made significant improvement (and is healthy), and the transfers Smith and Scott are as advertised. We know what Kadary can do. Pitino is hoping the 3 point shooting will be good enough from Wilcher, Dunlap, etc.

Curious to see Baylor vs St John's on Thursday. Perfect scouting opportunity for UConn.

 

[August_West]

Purdue at Marquette Tuesday night
Should be a good one

After what Purdue just did to Alabama Friday this is a HUGE opportunity for the league.

Creighton and Marquette need to at least split their 2 marquee OOC matchups. Creighton getting Kansas at home is a real big chance. Road at Bama will be tough, but they could steal it. Marquette at Iowa St will be a tall order too. That's why Id love to see them get Purdue tomorrow.

 

[RuffRuff]

I too doubted him his first 2 year, now I just trust the process. Although this is a big proof of concept year now that Kolek and Oso are gone.

Although keep in mind, Kolek was just a good A10 player, Oso had barely played any minutes, Omax was a meh ACC player, and Justin Lewis was a sub top 100 recruit. All ended up in the league. Shaka develops.

I think people will start believing in Shaka when his teams win a really meaningful game in March. He had a layup last year and barely squeaked by a 10 seed and then lost handily to a Cinderella NCSt. It’s generally why he was punted at Texas and hasn’t shown to have figured it out. His high energy style always seems to kick out the season with a flurry only to putter out come March.

Guy needs to win a big game in March to get off the schnied. This is the last sport you want to be a good regular season coach only to blow it in March. And while hes shown some ability to turn rocks and send some kids into later stages of the draft, are the odds good that he can keep that up?

 

[7774]

Guys, we are literally 2 weeks into the season...

Sure, but you can just look at history and see how critical these early out of conference games are in determining conference metrics, which then drive everything going foward. Based upon KemPom the conference has 5 teams right now that would be quad 3 games when we play them at home, and that is not counting Villanova, which I'm sure is headed that way. That's bad, and creates the potential for bad losses from the top teams in the conference because there are just going to be games where the bottom teams play well and beat them.

 

[MU in MKE]

I think people will start believing in Shaka when his teams win a really meaningful game in March. He had a layup last year and barely squeaked by a 10 seed and then lost handily to a Cinderella NCSt. It’s generally why he was punted at Texas and hasn’t shown to have figured it out. His high energy style always seems to kick out the season with a flurry only to putter out come March.

Guy needs to win a big game in March to get off the schnied. This is the last sport you want to be a good regular season coach only to blow it in March. And while hes shown some ability to turn rocks and send some kids into later stages of the draft, are the odds good that he can keep that up?

Agreed, he needs to show more in the NCAAT, though not March specicially since he's done just fine with B12 and BE tourney championships, but seems his teams are always hampered by injury, fluke games, etc in the tourney. Need that to change for sure if he's going to be considered elite.

However, the discussion was specifically about talent and going to the portal. He doesn't need to, he's great at spotting talent, keeping them year over year, and developing into great players. No reason to think he can't keep that up.

 

[RuffRuff]

Sure, but you can just look at history and see how critical these early out of conference games are in determining conference metrics, which then drive everything going foward. Based upon KemPom the conference has 5 teams right now that would be quad 3 games when we play them at home, and that is not counting Villanova, which I'm sure is headed that way. That's bad, and creates the potential for bad losses from the top teams in the conference because there are just going to be games where the bottom teams play well and beat them.

Yup. You got 2 months to baseline your conference strength. And from there once you go inter conference it’s generally not moving and the value of your opponents holds as everyone is playing each other at net zero. We’re about 1/3 through that as the holiday weeks are slow. The next month will be where the real meat and potatoes is as teams in the P5 start playing each other, which holds a big portion of the value.

 

[MU in MKE]

After what Purdue just did to Alabama Friday this is a HUGE opportunity for the league.

Creighton and Marquette need to at least split their 2 marquee OOC matchups. Creighton getting Kansas at home is a real big chance. Road at Bama will be tough, but they could steal it. Marquette at Iowa St will be a tall order too. That's why Id love to see them get Purdue tomorrow.

This plus STJ best remaining non-con opportunity comes on Thurs vs. Baylor. Really would like them to secure that one.

REALLY wish UConn gets a move on with providing some meat to the non-con slate. Maui is great, but also December can't get here fast enough for that!

 

[Fan1978]

I think people will start believing in Shaka when his teams win a really meaningful game in March. He had a layup last year and barely squeaked by a 10 seed and then lost handily to a Cinderella NCSt. It’s generally why he was punted at Texas and hasn’t shown to have figured it out. His high energy style always seems to kick out the season with a flurry only to putter out come March.

Guy needs to win a big game in March to get off the schnied. This is the last sport you want to be a good regular season coach only to blow it in March. And while hes shown some ability to turn rocks and send some kids into later stages of the draft, are the odds good that he can keep that up?

You are spot on but let’s give him credit for deep run at vcu

 

[controlfade]

I think people will start believing in Shaka when his teams win a really meaningful game in March. He had a layup last year and barely squeaked by a 10 seed and then lost handily to a Cinderella NCSt. It’s generally why he was punted at Texas and hasn’t shown to have figured it out. His high energy style always seems to kick out the season with a flurry only to putter out come March.

Guy needs to win a big game in March to get off the schnied. This is the last sport you want to be a good regular season coach only to blow it in March. And while hes shown some ability to turn rocks and send some kids into later stages of the draft, are the odds good that he can keep that up?

lmao, the guy took VCU to the final four, how much more of a big win in March are you expecting?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Xavier will be fine. They'll be in. 5 is the floor. Odds are that at least one more will figure things out... there's just too many W's to pass around in conf play anyway.

My money is on DePaul anyway though!

But if you think that's bad, TeamRankings only has 3 ACC teams as "probables" by your definition. Out of 18!!! Yikes!

Five is the floor?

What was your floor at this point last year?

 

[RuffRuff]

lmao, the guy took VCU to the final four, how much more of a big win in March are you expecting?

Can’t live off one Cinderella run at a mid major eons ago. Check Texas - a P4 school with ample resources that he was run out of.

 

[August_West]

Agreed, he needs to show more in the NCAAT, though not March specicially since he's done just fine with B12 and BE tourney championships, but seems his teams are always hampered by injury, fluke games, etc in the tourney. Need that to change for sure if he's going to be considered elite.

However, the discussion was specifically about talent and going to the portal. He doesn't need to, he's great at spotting talent, keeping them year over year, and developing into great players. No reason to think he can't keep that up.

Ill never know what it was, maybe you do, but something seemed off with Oso at end of year last year, I sat right at your bench in the BE tourney final last year and their were some strange vibes there, and it seemed to carry into the NCAA tourney. I follow you guys pretty closely and something was just not normal in March last year, starting with the BET final. And it was more than dealing with Kolek's injury which was bad enough to end the season, but even when you got him back things just seemed way off kilter.

 

[controlfade]

Can’t live off one Cinderella run at a mid major eons ago. Check Texas - a P4 school with ample resources that he was run out of.

while i do not think he did a great job at Texas (0-3 in the tournament) he won an NIT title and a Conference Tournament Title the year he quit to go to Marquette. You are the one discrediting him and say he has no big wins in March! Based on your logic, I guess Belicheck sucks now cause he has not one a playoff game in years?

 

[August_West]

I have a gut feeling St. Johns is going to make some serious noise this year. People are expecting them to be a tourney team, but I think they may be even better than that. It is all going to depend on whether Pitino can balance those guys mentally and get them all pulling in the same direction. If he can, they have a lot of pieces. Their style of play is going to drive people nuts. Luis is going to have a breakout year.

Like top 3 in league not top 5

 

[RuffRuff]

while i do not think he did a great job at Texas (0-3 in the tournament) he won an NIT title and a Conference Tournament Title the year he quit to go to Marquette. You the one discrediting him and say he has no big wins in March! Based on your logic, I guess Belicheck sucks now cause he has not one a playoff game in years?

Comparing Shaka to a guy who won 8 SBs is a little different than a guy that won the NIT . Listen Shaka’s MO is not being able to show up in the dance. He generally backed into a S16 last season when he had what many considered a top 5 preseason team. He got bounced as an 2 seed early the year before after winning the BE tourney. Couldn’t win a tourney game at Texas. The Marquette fan above said it well as his teams always seem to be either hurt, or on burnout come March. He needs a run or a big win to remove the perception. He does a lot of losing to much lower seeds, as opposed to beating higher.

 

[controlfade]

Comparing Shaka to a guy who won 8 SBs is a little different than a guy that won the NIT . Listen Shaka’s MO is not being able to show up in the dance. He generally backed into a S16 last season when he had what many considered a top 5 preseason team. He got bounced as an 2 seed early the year before after winning the BE tourney. Couldn’t win a tourney game at Texas. The Marquette fan above said it well as his teams always seem to be either hurt, or on burnout come March. He needs a run or a big win to remove the perception. He does a lot of losing to much lower seeds, as opposed to beating higher.

First, I am not comparing Shaka to BB. It was making a comparison based on your outlandish logic.
His team wins a couple games and advance to the S16 and you come back with that they generally backed in? My point from the get go is that he has had some big wins in March which is exactly what you said he needs and lacks.

 

[August_West]

Comparing Shaka to a guy who won 8 SBs is a little different than a guy that won the NIT . Listen Shaka’s MO is not being able to show up in the dance. He generally backed into a S16 last season when he had what many considered a top 5 preseason team. He got bounced as an 2 seed early the year before after winning the BE tourney. Couldn’t win a tourney game at Texas. The Marquette fan above said it well as his teams always seem to be either hurt, or on burnout come March. He needs a run or a big win to remove the perception. He does a lot of losing to much lower seeds, as opposed to beating higher.

I've seen enough of Shaka over last dozen years to know he is a helluva coach. Yeah, he hasn't gotten over the hump yet, but I think he will at some point. Once upon a time a certain team we know and love had a helluva coach that was once known as "the best coach to never make a final four" in fact he was 57 years old before he achieved that, and was able to shake the perception of never getting over the hump. Now he is remembered as one of the greatest coaches to ever walk the sidelines. (Rightfully so). But he was a great coach before getting there.

Shaka is 47 years old. He's a great coach.

 

[RuffRuff]

First, I am not comparing Shaka to BB. It was making a comparison based on your outlandish logic.
His team wins a couple games and advance to the S16 and you come back with that they generally backed in? My point from the get go is that he has had some big wins in March which is exactly what you said he needs and lacks.

I believe they were down in the first round to a 15 seed by double digits at the half, and was a 1 score game in final minutes to a 10 seed Colorado (albeit talented) in 2nd round. Then NCSt curb stomped them as the game was never close and Marquette looked awful. While it’s a S16, not sure I’d call that a run to remember. All said yes Shaka is a really good coach, it’s just something about his system putters out in the dance.