Big East OOC 2.0

[August_West]

Creighton vs. Arkansas in Maui might've been the best basketball game I've watched this year (outside of my rooting interest for the Huskies obviously), It was played at a great pace and incredibly high level by both sides. I refuse to throw dirt on Creighton's grave in early December. As mentioned ad nauseam they aren't deep . But with a healthy starting 5 they are a top 10 team . If they get healthy during big east play they will win a bunch. If they don't, they won't.

 

[bluestreak]

I think Fredrick King can be a powerhouse for the Jays in the coming seasons. If he can learn the skills as well as Adama has.

 

[JustbrewitMan]

Creighton vs. Arkansas in Maui might've been the best basketball game I've watched this year (outside of my rooting interest for the Huskies obviously), It was played at a great pace and incredibly high level by both sides. I refuse to throw dirt on Creighton's grave in early December. As mentioned ad nauseam they aren't deep . But with a healthy starting 5 they are a top 10 team . If they get healthy during big east play they will win a bunch. If they don't, they won't.

They seem to have very fragile chemistry and are limited (at this point) with what they show you on offense.

Agree they looked great vs. Arkansas with a full roster, Kalk on the court, and much less game film to be scouted on.

With Kalk out and with more game film, they are a fairly easy team to gameplan against.

Even if Kalk comes back, the scout is the same: Blanket Scheierman, double Kalk inside, and dare the rest to beat you. Unless the other 3 significantly improve their shooting, OR unless their bench develops more (King looked good last night), on most nights vs. a quality team (UConn, Xavier, Villanova Marquette), they will struggle to win.

All that said, they should, at worst, end up being a bubble team. But expectations were so much higher than that for them.

 

[CTFAN4LIFE]

"Even if Kalk comes back, the scout is the same: Blanket Scheierman, double Kalk inside, and dare the rest to beat you. Unless the other 3 significantly improve their shooting, OR unless their bench develops more (King looked good last night), on most nights vs. a quality team (UConn, Xavier, Villanova Marquette), they will struggle to win."

Sounds like UConn not too long ago.

 

[MDHuskFan]

I can def see Creighton as that team that puts a string of wins together mid season & plays really hot going into the BET. Becomes that team that the talking heads debate how much weight should be put on first half vs recent play

 

[ctchamps]

I can def see Creighton as that team that puts a string of wins together mid season & plays really hot going into the BET. Becomes that team that the talking heads debate how much weight should be put on first half vs recent play

Same with Nova.

 

[Scrutiner]

Certainly was the opinion on The Boneyard but if Kalk does have mono which no one could factor preseason it explains their current situation.

If he heals quickly that team will be a tough out.

They lost their last five games by a total of 22 points, with Kalkbro out the last two. All three losses with him in the lineup were close except 10 points against Nebraska, so with him they likely would have won two of them, but there's still no depth on that team.

His minutes didn't go down in his last three games (losses) and, in fact he averaged 34 minutes per game. Does mono come on that fast that he'd be in those three games for so many minutes and then suddenly have to be out?

He was about a half a point below his average and about one rebound above his average in those 3 games, and Texas and Arizona were two of them so it wasn't like he maintained his average against poor teams.

 

[auror]

Creighton is still young and soft and can't shoot. Yesterday they started 1 freshman, 3 sophs, and a senior transfer who is new to the program.

Against BYU, somehow their large young center King played 18 minutes and didn't get a single rebound.

They're just not strong enough in any one area to dictate the game, especially without Kalkbrenner, so the game ends up becoming whatever the opponent wants it to be. Nebraska has big guards that play solid D and don't let you penetrate, well Creighton'll take 40 3s then. BYU wants to muck up the game and hit the boards, well I guess go ahead and grab 16 o-boards. Arizona St has an incredible 2-point D with a shotblocker and long athletic wings, let's try to drive and score (and have Nembhard/Alexander/Kaluma go 1/16 inside the arc) and only take 27 3s despite being hot from deep.

Alexander is too passive (and can't finish in the paint). Kaluma doesn't have the skill generally to take over (but broke out with his 3pt shooting last 2 games). Nembhard is overrated but they let him dictate everything. They brought in a transfer shooter to play off the bench but he can't shoot (Farabello is the anti-Calcaterria). Mason Miller can't play defense I guess? His on/off splits are bad. Shereef Mitchell had his career derailed by injuries.

Scheierman is good, so teams put their best defender on him and settle for him shooting from 30 feet.

 

[MDHuskFan]

Creighton is very Michigan-ish from last year

 

[ctchamps]

They lost their last five games by a total of 22 points, with Kalkbro out the last two. All three losses with him in the lineup were close except 10 points against Nebraska, so with him they likely would have won two of them, but there's still no depth on that team.

His minutes didn't go down in his last three games (losses) and, in fact he averaged 34 minutes per game. Does mono come on that fast that he'd be in those three games for so many minutes and then suddenly have to be out?

He was about a half a point below his average and about one rebound above his average in those 3 games, and Texas and Arizona were two of them so it wasn't like he maintained his average against poor teams.

I'm only going by individuals in the Boneyard who have watched him play in those games and compared it to how he played last season. Their impression was his energy level and quickness was off. They felt he was sick well before it was announced he had mono by the way he was moving. That may not show up with stats but if he's slowing himself down to conserve energy his impact on the game most certainly would be reduced.

 

[August_West]

in fact he averaged 34 minutes per game. Does mono come on that fast that he'd be in those three games for so many minutes and then suddenly have to be out?

a couple of those games he looked nothing like himself before he sat.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I can def see Creighton as that team that puts a string of wins together mid season & plays really hot going into the BET. Becomes that team that the talking heads debate how much weight should be put on first half vs recent play

Same with Nova.

I can see either or both of them getting hot and getting a 7-10 seed in NCAAT due to lack of early season non-conference success. And they get hot and make an Elite 8 run.

 

[navery12]

If Villanova looks good in Big East play they should get in. They'll get a boost for missing Cam Whitmore early

 

[jibsey]

I submit that UConn MUST win a tournament game this year to get off the Schneid … and avoid a disastrous reputation. The easiest way is a very high seed. Nobody on this board will be happy with only one win, but many will be VERY relieved if/when we get it. 1 seeds don’t lose, so let’s hope for as close to that as possible.

Agree not as important, but seed is still VERY important.

Trust me, no one here would be happy or relieved to score just 1 win off a 15 or 16 seed and then lose.

 

[BGesus4]

Creighton has just zero depth and it’s already showing. They’re healthy starters in a vacuum are plenty to get you to a final four but it’s hard if not impossible for five players to sustain you for a season.

 

[shizzle787]

80-36 (20-27).

Xavier wins.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If Villanova looks good in Big East play they should get in. They'll get a boost for missing Cam Whitmore early

I don't know how much of a boost the "we were missing a guy" excuse gives team in the Selection Committee room. Creighton can obviously point out that there is no way they lose to both, or probably either, of BYU and ASU if they have Kalkbrenner.

I am having trouble coming up with an example of where the Selection Committee gave a team a big mulligan because it was missing someone important for a few games. Can you think of one?

 

[navery12]

I don't know how much of a boost the "we were missing a guy" excuse gives team in the Selection Committee room. Creighton can obviously point out that there is no way they lose to both, or probably either, of BYU and ASU if they have Kalkbrenner.

I am having trouble coming up with an example of where the Selection Committee gave a team a big mulligan because it was missing someone important for a few games. Can you think of one?

The committee has said they take into account injuries and how a team looks at full strength. Not saying they're going to take a 15 win Villanova team and put them in or anything, but they will (supposedly) move teams up or down a seedline or 2 because of injuries.

To your point though I can't think of many times it worked in this direction. I remember it coming up for Michigan State in 2014 when the committee said they would consider their injuries. No idea if it actually ended up happening though, they were a 4 seed but not sure what their resume would have suggested without injuries

The big example in the other direction I can think of was Kenyon Martin's Cincinnati team who was #1 in the country when he got injured in their conference tournament, and the committee moved them down to a 2 seed because of it

 

[Kolumbo]

I don't know how much of a boost the "we were missing a guy" excuse gives team in the Selection Committee room. Creighton can obviously point out that there is no way they lose to both, or probably either, of BYU and ASU if they have Kalkbrenner.

I am having trouble coming up with an example of where the Selection Committee gave a team a big mulligan because it was missing someone important for a few games. Can you think of one?

No. Although your question did remind of how Cinci dropped from a 1 to a 2 seed after Kenyan Martin broke his leg. They did lose their conference tourney so it was multiple factors. Then I thought of UCONN beating LSU and Shaq, I think Shaq was somewhat injured. Anyway, good times.

 

[karstenkibbe]

No. Although your question did remind of how Cinci dropped from a 1 to a 2 seed after Kenyan Martin broke his leg. They did lose their conference tourney so it was multiple factors. Then I thought of UCONN beating LSU and Shaq, I think Shaq was somewhat injured. Anyway, good times.

Just a casual three-quarter court laser inbounds pass from Burrell. We had a version of freak athlete 30 years before AJax arrived.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The committee has said they take into account injuries and how a team looks at full strength. Not saying they're going to take a 15 win Villanova team and put them in or anything, but they will (supposedly) move teams up or down a seedline or 2 because of injuries.

To your point though I can't think of many times it worked in this direction. I remember it coming up for Michigan State in 2014 when the committee said they would consider their injuries. No idea if it actually ended up happening though, they were a 4 seed but not sure what their resume would have suggested without injuries

The big example in the other direction I can think of was Kenyon Martin's Cincinnati team who was #1 in the country when he got injured in their conference tournament, and the committee moved them down to a 2 seed because of it

There was a midwestern team like Iowa or Kansas State or someone like that a few years ago that lost several in a row without a star player, got him back, finished strong, and made the tournament despite a dodgy resume. I can't remember the year or the team, but it does happen occasionally, but not often.

I think this matters more with the last few bubble slots when all the resumes are equally mediocre and the Selection Committee is trying to pick the team with the best shot to win a game or two. A team with a star player back that proved they can beat good teams with him will get the nod over the 20-12 6th place P6 team that is 2-9 against the Top 50 and just hasn't lost to anyone terrible.

 

[ctchamps]

There was a midwestern team like Iowa or Kansas State or someone like that a few years ago that lost several in a row without a star player, got him back, finished strong, and made the tournament despite a dodgy resume. I can't remember the year or the team, but it does happen occasionally, but not often.

I think this matters more with the last few bubble slots when all the resumes are equally mediocre and the Selection Committee is trying to pick the team with the best shot to win a game or two. A team with a star player back that proved they can beat good teams with him will get the nod over the 20-12 6th place P6 team that is 2-9 against the Top 50 and just hasn't lost to anyone terrible.

Do we have to introduce geography into every thread.

 

[Samoo]

Do we have to introduce geography into every thread.

He could have said flyover...

 

[Scrutiner]

Would be a good win against what is somehow the Kenpom #30 team.

Don't forget they have a $Billion dollar coaching staff..........

 

[ctchamps]

He could have said flyover...

I just don’t want this thread to be corrupted with bourbon, walleye and human behavior stuff.