Big 12 Pushing For UConn Part Deux!

[superjohn]

I'd make the case that the ACC is more stable only because 4 schools will get plucked by the power 2, and what remains is far more valuable, in heavily populated regions, than the B12. The problem is the contract. And the timing. The remaining schools would be wise to realize that they may need to give up a few years of the contract and let the big dogs go in order to create a stable conference.

But ESPN is absolutely incentivized to threaten them and tell them they will get nothing (same playbook they threatened the BE with), since ESPN owns Florida St, UNC, Virginia, Clemson and Miami for the next 13 years. Why give them up for cheap?

Not seeing how the ACC minus 4 schools the Big 10 and SEC would take away is more valuable than the Big 12.

 

[upstater]

Not seeing how the ACC minus 4 schools the Big 10 and SEC would take away is more valuable than the Big 12.

Better brands.

Clemson > everyone
Virginia Tech > Texas Tech
Pittsburgh > Cincinnati

Even schools:
NC State = Oklahoma St
Duke = Kansas

On the flip side, TCU and Baylor over Georgia Tech and Syracuse.

Kansas St & Iowa St are afterthoughts like BC and Wake Forest.

But beyond all this, the B12 will have 4 schools in Texas, with none of them being the top 2 schools.

Then the B12 will have a bunch of sparsely populated Plains states.

The ACC, meanwhile, will have population centers in the south atlantic seaboard. More people living in ACC states.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

This time around we did it to ourselves with a bad decade of football unfortunately.

Timing of hiring three horrible coaches in the row has killed our football perception. The amount of misinformation out there on the Internet about UConn is simply insane.

Mora can go a long way fixing that by beating NCST on 8/31/23, but the B12 might be done expanding by then.

It is crazy how previous adminstration screwed this up by hiring coach P, red pants, and washed up RE 2.0 when there were so many better coaching candidates available around that time.

The fact the B12 took UCF, Cincy, and Houston over UConn is just mind boggling.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

Better brands.

Clemson > everyone
Virginia Tech > Texas Tech
Pittsburgh > Cincinnati

Even schools:
NC State = Oklahoma St
Duke = Kansas

On the flip side, TCU and Baylor over Georgia Tech and Syracuse.

Kansas St & Iowa St are afterthoughts like BC and Wake Forest.

But beyond all this, the B12 will have 4 schools in Texas, with none of them being the top 2 schools.

Then the B12 will have a bunch of sparsely populated Plains states.

The ACC, meanwhile, will have population centers in the south atlantic seaboard. More people living in ACC states.

UConn is a better brand than most B12 schools right now. Instead, the perception is we are literally dog because of football due to 3 horrible hires in the row. The fact red pants and RE2.0 got long leashes also killed us. It was obvious both of those guys were way over their heads early in their coaching stints. UConn should have fired them much earlier than they did.

 

[uconnyankee]

But are there landing spots for 7 ACC teams? I doubt it. I think it’s a different landscape than when the big east fell apart

Yes. If big and sec are at 18 or 20, Big 12 will come poaching too.

Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse and even nc state would be targets.

Only option for ACC is WV. Not sure they’d go if so many are exiting and Big 12 is more easy.

 

[tzznandrew]

I agree with you on UNC and UVA, and think that they will go to the B1G. However, I don't see Duke going with them. I also agree with VT and NC State going to the SEC. However, you have Clemson and FSU going to the B12, and most people, myself included, have them going to the SEC. No conference has ever dissolved, as they all pull teams from a conference below them, so I see the P12 and ACC surviving, but becoming G5's.

I mean, who knows, right?

If I'm the SEC, I don't particularly care about the second best program in Florida or South Carolina. As for Duke, they fit a lot of what the B1G likes as it likes to play to the academic crowd. In an endgame many years off, Duke-Northwestern-Stanford would share a conference, and there's a way that makes a lot of sense.

 

[JohnFSilver]

Every team in the Big XII s committed to the success of the Big XII, likely because they know they will ride or die with the conference. There won't be a BIG/SEC life raft for current BigXII teams if the death star gets used on the BigXII. This is why the BigXII should be very careful about adding teams like Oregon/Washington (if that is even possible.)

Meanwhile the ACC is the exact opposite. There are at least 7 teams in the ACC (the Magnificent 7) who have indicated they are unhappy with the current ACC. As we saw in the old BE, nothing destroys a conference faster than when members aren't committed to its long term survival. If the ACC doesn't make any additions based on the current PAC uncertainty then it goes to show the power brokers in the ACC (FSU and Clemson) don't want the conference to survive and will be out as soon as they legally can exit.

As it currently stands, the ACC is a better geographic/partner fit but it is not a better long term, stable place for UConn. The next few weeks will tell us everything we need to know about whether the ACC is committed to its survival. If the ACC doesn't add teams they are a dead conference walking.

Can we not call them the magnificent 7. That is Brett McMurphy trying to curry favor with ACC folk. There is nothing magnificicent about them.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

If the ACC is smart, they get a media consultant and start discussing what kind of media deal they can get if they never with the PAC-9. They can use that to either form a new conference or just absorb them into the ACC especially if B1G isn't ready to expand yet. You do this before B1G makes its move.

You get this in writing from all the current ACC members to dissolve the conference in order to get out of the GOR, and you get them to sign a contract to be in the new conference simultaneously.

ACC isn't forward thinking, so they will never think out of box like this.

 

[businesslawyer]

If the ACC is smart, they get a media consultant and start discussing what kind of media deal they can get if they never with the PAC-9. They can use that to either form a new conference or just absorb them into the ACC especially if B1G isn't ready to expand yet. You do this before B1G makes its move.

You get this in writing from all the current ACC members to dissolve the conference in order to get out of the GOR, and you get them to sign a contract to be in the new conference simultaneously.

ACC isn't forward thinking, so they will never think out of box like this.

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

You are correct. If majority schools in the ACC agreed to disband the ACC, they should be able to get out of the ESPN media GOR correct? If not, then this plan won't work.

The new entity just can't go back and try to get a better deal with ESPN. They will have to work with FOX and/or other streaming platforms to get a new deal.

Of course, this will require massive amount of planning with everything agreed on prior before disbanding the ACC. I am just thinking some ideas, but I am under no illusion this will happen.

 

[billybud]

ESPN has no contracr with the schools...they have a contr

What makes you think that if the conference disbands, ESPN loses the right to the current members’ home games for the next dozen years?

You really think you can get around contracts that easily? You’d be wrong. Google the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing.

Not that it would happen...but if the ACC disbanded, ESPN would have a contract but with a non existant entity.

ESPN has no contract with the schools, but rather with the conference.

The schools, via GOR, assigned their media rights to the ACC, the conference then contracted with ESPN.

Since the ACC is a North Carolina non profit, the NC statute regarding non ptofit dissolution would govern...

 

[businesslawyer]

ESPN has no contracr with the schools...they have a contr


Not that it would happen...but if the ACC disbanded, ESPN would have a contract but with a non existant entity.

ESPN has no contract with the schools, but rather with the conference.

The schools, via GOR, assigned their media rights to the ACC, the conference then contracted with ESPN.

Since the ACC is a North Carolina non profit, the NC statute regarding non ptofit dissolution would govern...

I have not seen the contract. Are you certain that the ACC didn't assign the GOR to the rights to members' home games to the networks? If I were representing the networks I would have taken an assignment to those rights, and if the networks weren't guaranteed the benefits of the GOR then how did the schools granting them increase the value of the TV contract, which was the point of the GOR in the first place?

Said another way, I can't tell you you are wrong without seeing the contract, but as a business law matter it would make little sense for you to be right.

 

[PaulMec]

There's no way that a conference with Washington, Washington State, Oregon, Oregon State and Cal being G5.

My G5 assumption is after the 4 Corners and ORWA schools have all left.

 

[CL82]

UConn is a better brand than most B12 schools right now. Instead, the perception is we are literally dog because of football due to 3 horrible hires in the row. The fact red pants and RE2.0 got long leashes also killed us. It was obvious both of those guys were way over their heads early in their coaching stints. UConn should have fired them much earlier than they did.

By long leashes do you mean autonomy as a coach, because I think that unavoidable. On the other hand if you mean that they had long 10 years, neither really did. One of the criticisms of Connecticut football is the amount of turnover we've had at the head coach position.

 

[upstater]

My G5 assumption is after the 4 Corners and ORWA schools have all left.

As long as they have 6 original members they'd be OK. In the next contract for playoffs, that's when they'd be hurt. Remember when several teams left the Big East, it was still considered a BCS league... until the next contract

 

[billybud]

I have not seen the contract. Are you certain that the ACC didn't assign the GOR to the rights to members' home games to the networks? If I were representing the networks I would have taken an assignment to those rights, and if the networks weren't guaranteed the benefits of the GOR then how did the schools granting them increase the value of the TV contract, which was the point of the GOR in the first place?

Said another way, I can't tell you you are wrong without seeing the contract, but as a business law matter it would make little sense for you to be right.

The individual schools do not have the contract (FSU answered so under an FOI request)...attempts under FOI to see the contract were rebuffed since the ACC as a private does not fall under FOI.

FSU lawyers were allowed to review the contract at the ACC office...the GOR is available and is now in the public domain...all the GOR does is grant the conference the media rights of the signing members for a time certain. The conference then leases the media rights under contract with ESPN (yes, home games).

ESPN has contract obligations to pay X amount, increasing over time....If there is no longer an ACC as an entity to lease sports media to ESPN, there would be no longer any contract obligations either way.

However...the required dissolution plan might be a hiccup in that the dissolution plan must address all liabilities and obligations.

 

[Rico444]

Timing of hiring three horrible coaches in the row has killed our football perception. The amount of misinformation out there on the Internet about UConn is simply insane.

Mora can go a long way fixing that by beating NCST on 8/31/23, but the B12 might be done expanding by then.

It is crazy how previous adminstration screwed this up by hiring coach P, red pants, and washed up RE 2.0 when there were so many better coaching candidates available around that time.

The fact the B12 took UCF, Cincy, and Houston over UConn is just mind boggling.

Right or wrong, the national perception of UConn football isn't "solid program that hired a few bad coaches in a row," it's "bad program that had a few good years sprinkled in." 2004 and 2007-2010 were strong years and gave the program great momentum, but realistically that's only 5 seasons of relevance in the last two decades, and the last relevant season was 13 years ago.

 

[noeynox]

Right or wrong, the national perception of UConn football isn't "solid program that hired a few bad coaches in a row," it's "bad program that had a few good years sprinkled in." 2004 and 2007-2010 were strong years and gave the program great momentum, but realistically that's only 5 seasons of relevance in the last two decades, and the last relevant season was 13 years ago.

Imagine if the BB program stuck with Ollie. That's what they did sticking with Edsall. He should have been axed after year 2. He was the embodiment of a no hoper.

 

[WestCoastHusky]

By long leashes do you mean autonomy as a coach, because I think that unavoidable. On the other hand if you mean that they had long 10 years, neither really did. One of the criticisms of Connecticut football is the amount of turnover we've had at the head coach position.

I mean it was clear as day after year 1 Edsall was the wrong hire for the second stint. UConn should have let him walk after year 2 at minimal.

The problem is most of the people forgot everything UConn did during Edsall 1.0. Right now the perception about UConn is just a bad football program that will be the doormat in the B12. People seem to forget things like UCF was horrible not too long ago.

We need a 9+ wins season in the worst way. Winning is the only thing that can change this perception.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

UNC and Virginia easily have landing spots in either the B1G or the SEC.

If they go to the B1G (which is sort of what I'd expect), I'd expect Duke to go with them, and maybe Georgia Tech. In that scenario, NC State and Virginia Tech would probably find their way into the SEC.

Clemson and Florida State probably would find a home in the B12. Don't think the B1G would care about either, and why in the world would the SEC want them when they have the markets covered?

I honestly think it's only the former BE schools (minus VT) along with Wake Forest that won't have much of a landing spot. Miami and Syracuse probably find a home in the B12 if that happened. BC? Louisville? Why would anyone add them?

Can somebody please explain to me who the wants Duke and why? UConn is clearly a better add than Duke.

I mean no disrespect to Duke. I like and admire them. I'm speaking purely from a business perspective.

 

[billybud]

Duke's Cameron Crazies make for TV pageantry...

2023 season...Top Ten most watched regular season games on ESPN/ABC

Duke...was #1...#2...#7...

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Duke's Cameron Crazies make for TV pageantry...

2023 season...Top Ten most watched regular season games on ESPN..

Duke...was #1...#2...#7...

Thanks. Remains to be seen what happens without K and the substandard seasons that are likely to follow...for a few years anyway. Look what happened to UConn under Ollie.

 

[WestHartHusk]

Duke's Cameron Crazies make for TV pageantry...

2023 season...Top Ten most watched regular season games on ESPN/ABC

Duke...was #1...#2...#7...

I used to think that about the crazies. But now it just seems creepy, scripted and sad.

 

[tzznandrew]

Can somebody please explain to me who the wants Duke and why? UConn is clearly a better add than Duke.

I mean no disrespect to Duke. I like and admire them. I'm speaking purely from a business perspective.

They're a great academic school with a strong athletic department, and they presumably come packaged with the best basketball rivalry in MCBB. North Carolina as a state is quite large and growing, so having two of the top draws is worth it.

 

[tzznandrew]

Thanks. Remains to be seen what happens without K and the substandard seasons that are likely to follow...for a few years anyway. Look what happened to UConn under Ollie.

KO won a title.

There's also no indication Scheyer is going to be KO: at KOs best or worst...