Big 12 needs FSU or PAC 12 needs Texas | The Boneyard

Big 12 needs FSU or PAC 12 needs Texas

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End of the day, SEC (Alabama, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee) and Big 1G (Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, and Penn State) have enough traditional powers to sell media rights, cable channels, and bowl games. The two conferences are in good positions LT. Big 12 has two traditional powers, Texas and Oklahoma, PAC 12 has one USC, ACC has two FSU and Miami, although you could argue Miami's best days are behind them, and ND is the lone independent.

In my opinion, one of three things will happen in order: 1) FSU to the Big 12. 2) Texas and Oklahoma to the PAC 12. 3) ND to the ACC for football. Any of these moves would set off the next major round of conference realignment.

FSU to the Big 12 would ensure that the Big 12 will be one of the top conferences LT ( Does anyone really buy the LT success of Kansas St., Baylor, and TCU?). PAC 12 is a good conference, but USC is the only traditional power as Oregon is a newbe. They really could use Texas and Oklahoma to add two traditional powers. If the ACC added ND for football, that would ensure the ACC will be a viable top football conference in the LT.

Bottom line, there will be a big conference move in the future.
 

UConn Dan

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Texas and OK aren't going anywhere for 13 years. Big 12 owns their TV rights and the other 8 teams. Grant of rights. #gor
 
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Good points but we all know it will take ND a decade to initiate a move, so they won't start anything; Pac 12 is in no rush to initiate or even react for that matter, so only hope is Big 12 expanding. If Big 12 (ie Texas) did not make a move for UL then methinks they will take all the time in the world to try to get FSU, Clemson and friends. So the future for UConn looks bleak for the next few years. Maybe its time for the NBE to fold and have UConn join up with the Catholics and a few others for BB and Olympic sports. Have FB be independent or be a mid major. Maybe GT will be the wildcard and bolt for BiG. I think thats the best posibility for the next 12 months.
 

Fishy

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Numbers two and three will not be catalysts for further expansion - there's a remote chance that they'll be the result of expansion, but they will not be the cause.

I agree that the SEC and Big Ten are in positions of power. They can do something, they can do nothing - either way, they are set.

I'd argue that the PAC-12 is also set - geographically, they're so well put-together. USC, Stanford, Oregon and UCLA are a strong lineup. Cal, the Arizonas, Oregon State are historically pretty decent as well. Strong league.

I'm sure they'd like to add Texas and a plus-one, but not at the cost of the LHN and the politics that would come into play with the plus-one. If you get Texas, do you have to take Texas Tech? If you take Texas and Oklahoma, do you have to then take OSU and Tech as well? It's messy and the PAC12 has kicked those tires already.

As for Florida State...I dunno. Part of me thinks that if the Big 12 wanted them, they'd already be gone. It's a good football program, but I suspect a rather small market. And then you have to decide on their plus-one...is it Clemson which is in a decent market or Miami which is in a rather good market? Or Virginia Tech?

Part of me also thinks the Big 12 might be treading lightly because they know that expansion carries them into the southeast and that might provoke the SEC. After ND to the ACC, we know what happens when a big boy gets pissed off.
 

ctchamps

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Numbers two and three will not be catalysts for further expansion - there's a remote chance that they'll be the result of expansion, but they will not be the cause.

I agree that the SEC and Big Ten are in positions of power. They can do something, they can do nothing - either way, they are set.

I'd argue that the PAC-12 is also set - geographically, they're so well put-together. USC, Stanford, Oregon and UCLA are a strong lineup. Cal, the Arizonas, Oregon State are historically pretty decent as well. Strong league.

I'm sure they'd like to add Texas and a plus-one, but not at the cost of the LHN and the politics that would come into play with the plus-one. If you get Texas, do you have to take Texas Tech? If you take Texas and Oklahoma, do you have to then take OSU and Tech as well? It's messy and the PAC12 has kicked those tires already.

As for Florida State...I dunno. Part of me thinks that if the Big 12 wanted them, they'd already be gone. It's a good football program, but I suspect a rather small market. And then you have to decide on their plus-one...is it Clemson which is in a decent market or Miami which is in a rather good market? Or Virginia Tech?

Part of me also thinks the Big 12 might be treading lightly because they know that expansion carries them into the southeast and that might provoke the SEC. After ND to the ACC, we know what happens when a big boy gets pissed off.
I'm more of the opinion that the B12 already invited FSU and Clemson and were politely turned down. FSU is waiting on three things. First, controlling the destiny of the ACC. Second, getting a better contract from ESPN. Third, evaluating the ACC after any further poaching by the SEC or the B!G. If those three things don't work out favorably FSU and Clemson contact the B12 and get an invite ASAP.
 
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My personal opinion is that FSU has always wanted the SEC and they are still waiting for the offer, which could happen as having two schools in a large Florida market is not a bad thing. I think it is unlikely, but possible. If 3 other ACC schools agreed to go to the Big 12 with FSU, say Clemson, GT, and VT, they would bolt.

As for the PAC 12, it's a nice league, but how many schools average > 65 k fans? One, USC. Big 10 has 7, ACC has 3, SEC has 7, Big 12 has 2.
 
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Regarding the OP, any of those 3 moves would, in and of itself, constitute a major move in college realignment. I think scenarios 1 and 2 would certainly produce a corresponding ripple effect, but not scenario 3. To the contrary, I argue that scenario 3 (ND > ACC) would produce a dampening affect on realignment as it would stabilize the ACC, by mollifying FSU, and likely usher in a GOR. Having said that, I think only scenario 1 or 3 is likely, and of those two, scenario 1 is the most likely.

First, scenario 2: Texas and Oklahoma > PAC. Texas and Oklahoma are going nowhere for roughly 13 years due to the GOR. The only way they could escape the GOR would be a for a majority of B12 schools to vote to disband the league. Not happening. Furthermore, truth be told, I think both Texas and Oklahoma are serious about rebuilding the B12, and therefore have no hidden desire to leave the B12. I don't think scenario 2 is particularly realistic, due to the GOR and lack of motivation, and further consideration is unnecessary.

Scenario 3 -- ND "all in" to the ACC -- is, IMO, relatively unlikely due to the fact that ND remains fiercely protective of its "football independence". ND to the NC game this year will, I think, only reinforce ND's independent mindset.

Ironically, ND's association with the ACC, but not joining the ACC "all in", is, IMO, the cause of the B1G's recent movement in expanding with MY and RU. Rather than stabilizing the ACC, ND's mere association with the ACC has spurred Delany into damaging the ACC, removing whole chunks of the Northeastern Corridor from ACC influence, in an effort, I think, at least in part, to show ND the "error of its ways". The ACC may have let the wolf into the henhouse. Delaney may not be done either. If just one more ACC school is poached, then ...

Scenario 1 will almost undoubtedly be ignited. It is no secret that the B12 lusts after Florida State. And while the B12 understands that the SEC is not interested in FSU, FSU understands that they can slow-play the B12 just in case the SEC changes its mind, or, in case, by some minor miracle, the B1G comes calling (if the B1G should go all the way to 20 at this point in expansion). Furthermore, logically, since the ACC contract is at least 20% less per year than the B12 contract, FSU should be in a hurry to join the B12. But FSU isn't in a hurry. They are run by human beings and human beings are inextricably bound up in emotions. FSU has an emotional attachment to the ACC. Call it loyalty. Call it whatever you want. But FSU still appears to hope the ACC can be made to "work", the money be damned.

However, if the B1G removes one more top tier school from the ACC, as a result of Delany's wrath toward the Domers, FSU may reach a critical mass where logic finally trumps emotion. If and when FSU leaves the ACC, a wholesale run on various schools of the ACC will certainly ensue. Any one of the various doomsday scenarios viz-a-viz the ACC that we read and hear about could occur.

If FSU bolts, my guess is that, in the end, both Virginia schools will be gone, 2 or 3 North Carolina schools will be gone, GT will be gone, both Florida schools will be gone, and Clemson will be gone. The ACC will go on, but only as a mere shell of its former self. Louisville will be sorely disillusioned.

Yes, I think the key is FSU. However, I don't think FSU will be next. It will take the B1G or the SEC to pluck one more ACC school, which will cause FSU to give up the ghost, and it will probably be the B1G that launches the avalanche. If it happens, the ACC could be depopulated in a matter of days because there has already been a lot of undermining of the ACC foundation that has already occurred over the past several months.

I really think the B1G wants UVA, not necessarily Georgia Tech, and Delany is stalking GT to try to flush out his target in the South: UVA. OTOH, maybe the B1G is serious about GT, who knows? I think we'll find out a whole lot more in the next several days. Not weeks. Not months. But days.

As for me, a Texas alum, I'd be tickled to no end if Guy Jones prediction for the B12 came to pass: Connecticut, Florida State, North Carolina, Clemson, Duke, and San Diego State. Add them to the existing B12 and you'd have a helluva league there.
 
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Good response XOVERX.

GOR are negotiable, just like conference exit fees are, only WVU fans will tell you they are not. There is a price for everything. Also, Imagine Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St to PAC 12, WVU to SEC, and Kansas to Big 10, GOR wouldn't matter anyway.

I do agree with you that I don't think Big 10 wants GT, but really wants UVA and UNC. I don't buy that the SEC wants NC St and VT. They want the flagships, but I do think they would take Duke due to name brand, basketball (weak in SEC), academics, and prestige.
 
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no team will give up tv rights to a conference they will leave, does not make sense, texas is going nowhere, the b12 is locked down for 13 years.

vt and nc st are the only 2 acc the sec would take
 
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if one of these GOR's is broken in court, that'll be like opening the flood gates of hell.
 
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Larry Scott was actually willing to work around the LHN in 2010 (he said so) BUT he made the biggest blunder in all of conference realignment when he prematurely added Colorado at the expense of bringing in Baylor. He thought he could still land the other Big 12 schools he was chasing. The Texas politicians but the kibosh on the whole deal. It cost him Texas and OU. The Pac will never again get a shot at 2 programs like that.

Also, I have a lot of respect for FSU and Miami, but in purely historical terms, they are not equal to Texas and Oklahoma.
 
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Larry Scott was actually willing to work around the LHN in 2010 (he said so) BUT he made the biggest blunder in all of conference realignment when he prematurely added Colorado at the expense of bringing in Baylor. He thought he could still land the other Big 12 schools he was chasing. The Texas politicians but the kibosh on the whole deal. It cost him Texas and OU. The Pac will never again get a shot at 2 programs like that.

Also, I have a lot of respect for FSU and Miami, but in purely historical terms, they are not equal to Texas and Oklahoma.
So...the Big 12 is stuck together. Moving on...
 
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