Best Women's Basketball Player EVER; Sue or Diana – ESPNW Wants Your Vote

[triaddukefan]

Who is the "they" that was hoping that no UCONN player would be in the final pairing? That sounds a little paranoid.

They = Lady Vol Fans

 

[VAUConnFan]

How do you know George Mikan was not a good basketball player? The NBA wasn't even on TV when he played, and you would have to be at least in your late 80s to have seen him play. My point was not to denigrate George Mikan, or denigrate Sheryl Swoopes. In fact, it was from watching her play that my own daughter was inspired to play basketball. She was an amazing player, BUT she was also active at the very beginning of the WNBA. Women's basketball has come a long, long way since then, including the development of the overseas leagues that have helped further the game to a much greater extent than the WNBA. In Geno's latest interview, he acknowledged that the best basketball is played in Europe, since essentially only Americans play in the league here. The Americans are the best players, but the leagues in Europe have access to everyone, making the talent pool much deeper. I have no idea whether Swoopes ever played overseas; since she had children during her WNBA career, I'm guessing it was little or not at all. Taurasi has consistently been the best player for a decade in the Golden Age of women's basketball; that's enough for me. It was no accident that the pundits who came up with this ridiculous vote seeded her number one.

All right, George Mikan was a very good basketball player being unfairly compared and fairly or unfairly dubious of his competition.

There has always been a lot of film featuring George Mikan; Spent many a rainy summer morning in summer camp looking at old basketball films many of which featured George Mikan; Always produced a ton of laughter.

 

[hoophuskee]

The 2003 and 2004 championships were hardly single handed efforts. Please, do not insult Ms Taurasi's teammates. Maria Conlon, the only non pro, was almost flawless in the playoffs both years. In 2003, she had one turnover against Texas in the national semifinal and no, nada, zero turnovers in 39 minutes against Tennessee in the national championship game. The following year, Conlon was every bit as good with 1 turnover in 33 minutes in the championship game. The rest of the roster all signed WNBA contracts at the ends of their respective UConn careers; Ashley Battle, Jessica Moore, Willnet Crockett, Barbara Turner, and Ann Strother; All pros. Texas Tech in 1993 was not nearly as loaded with talent.

What separates Swoopes from all the other GOAT candidates, at this point, is that she excelled at both ends of the floor.

You are right about George Mikan though. A giant way ahead of his time size wise, but really not a very good basketball player. At 7 foot, he could not even get high enough to dunk. Had he caught Ray Meyer at the end of his coaching career, he might have been a much different/better ballplayer.

True and I'm always of the belief you need teammates and they are a huge part of the team - which is why years ago I'd get upset at those that really ripped Taliek Brown.

With all that said - Maria Conlon didn't make the pros for a reason. She had DT in the backcourt which helped her a great deal. There are reasons why team didn't perform well after DT left. Maria was huge but within the team concept. The rest of the players that signed WNBA contracts - somehow the year after DT and Maria left were only 25-8 and got bounce in S16. Thus how much does it really "mean" that they signed WNBA contracts? IMO the more meaningful takeaway from all this is just saying that "DT Left." Maria left too and was HUGE but DT was an all-time great.

DT did what super all-time great players tend to do- they make players better.

 

[j66kicker]

DT officially (ESPN) GOAT

http://espn.go.com/wnba/story/_/id/...ins-best-women-basketball-player-ever-bracket

But the mega-power of the UConn fan base was diffused when Seattle Storm guard Bird was facing a fellow ex-Huskies player, rather than one of the Women of Troy alums. Taurasi, with her three NCAA and three WNBA titles, is the last player standing.

In a statement, Taurasi said she has always valued team goals over individual accolades, but that "to be picked by fans who love the game is the ultimate honor."

"I've had the good fortune to play for and learn from some great coaches and to play with teammates who have made me better -- I hope I have done the same for them," Taurasi said. "I'm particularly grateful for the influence and impact of greats on this list like Cheryl Miller and Annie Meyers, who elevated our game.

"They're the reason the rest of us have the opportunity to be a part of a bracket like this."

 

[meyers7]

How in the world can the accomplishments of Sheryl Swoopes be ignored in a GOAT discussion? She single handedly took Texas Tech to the 1993 national championship, has four WNBA championship rings, was a 3 time WNBA MVP, and was named its Defensive Player of the Year 3 times. Who else even comes close to these accomplishments?

Hmmm, let's see. DT- 3 time NCAA Champ, 2 time FF MVP, 2 time NPOY, 2 time NL(C) Award winner, 3 Time WNBA Champion, 2 time Finals MVP, 1 time WNBA MVP, 9 time 1st team All-WNBA, 7 time NBA All-star, 5 time WNBA Scoring Champion, WNBA ROY, 3 Olympic Golds, 2 WC Golds, 4 time Euroleague Championships, 2 time Euroleague MVP.

I'd say she stacks up pretty well. And she will probably add to her legacy over the next couple of years.

The 2003 and 2004 championships were hardly single handed efforts. Please, do not insult Ms Taurasi's teammates. Maria Conlon, the only non pro, was almost flawless in the playoffs both years. In 2003, she had one turnover against Texas in the national semifinal and no, nada, zero turnovers in 39 minutes against Tennessee in the national championship game. The following year, Conlon was every bit as good with 1 turnover in 33 minutes in the championship game. The rest of the roster all signed WNBA contracts at the ends of their respective UConn careers; Ashley Battle, Jessica Moore, Willnet Crockett, Barbara Turner, and Ann Strother; All pros. Texas Tech in 1993 was not nearly as loaded with talent.

Please, do not insult Ms Taurasi. That 2003 team had 1 starter returning (DT). Turner, Crockett, Strother, were FR that year. DT was only a JR. In 2004, DT did it with a broken back.

As for "pros". Well there wasn't a WNBA til 97. So unless you were really outstanding, NT caliber (Swoopes), there wasn't any "pro" to be for the 93 team. So that's not really comparable.

 

[UcMiami]

I think the bias in this was not 'Uconn' but rather 'modern era' - the way the brackets stacked up with three modern era Uconn players who with Catchings have the best resumes on college, pro, and NT levels of all the modern era players, it was almost a given that the final would end up being dominated by Uconn players.

 

[intlzncster]

The 2003 and 2004 championships were hardly single handed efforts. Please, do not insult Ms Taurasi's teammates. Maria Conlon, the only non pro, was almost flawless in the playoffs both years. In 2003, she had one turnover against Texas in the national semifinal and no, nada, zero turnovers in 39 minutes against Tennessee in the national championship game. The following year, Conlon was every bit as good with 1 turnover in 33 minutes in the championship game. The rest of the roster all signed WNBA contracts at the ends of their respective UConn careers; Ashley Battle, Jessica Moore, Willnet Crockett, Barbara Turner, and Ann Strother; All pros. Texas Tech in 1993 was not nearly as loaded with talent.

What separates Swoopes from all the other GOAT candidates, at this point, is that she excelled at both ends of the floor.

You are right about George Mikan though. A giant way ahead of his time size wise, but really not a very good basketball player. At 7 foot, he could not even get high enough to dunk. Had he caught Ray Meyer at the end of his coaching career, he might have been a much different/better ballplayer.

While they weren't bad, if you replace DT with damn near any great player, those teams aren't going all the way. UCONN fans look on those players with much rosier glasses than a neutral basketball observer. There were some nice hardnosed players on those teams, but DT made everyone so much better. Without DT, Conlon doesn't get a clean look all year.

 

[UcMiami]

While they weren't bad, if you replace DT with damn near any great player, those teams aren't going all the way. UCONN fans look on those players with much rosier glasses than a neutral basketball observer. There were some nice hardnosed players on those teams, but DT made everyone so much better. Without DT, Conlon doesn't get a clean look all year.

OK, but ...
Jessica Moore - drafted #24 and had a 9 yr WNBA career and 10 year international career
Barb Turner - drafted #11 4 year WNBA career, still playing professionally in Europe
Ann Strother - drafted #15 3 year WNBA career, coaching, and a US 3X3 gold medal
Ashley Battle - drafted #25 6 year WNBA career, coaching
Willnett Crockett - drafted #22 1 year WNBA career, coaching
and Conlon who did not get drafted but in 2003 had 130 assists at a 2.0 assists/TO ratio (DT had more assists but at 1.4) and shot .365 to DTs .350 from 3. Conlon did play in Europe before a gruesome injury ended her career and her attempt to make an WNBA team.
So ... that untalented team that DT carried to the 2003 title ended up with 5 other WNBA players on it who averaged 4.6 years in the league - better probably than any other team in the NCAAs that year.
Not saying that DT wasn't essential, but it was a pretty talented team.

 

[NoelAustin]

The final contest should be between some combination of Taurasi, Swoopes, and Lisa Leslie. DT and Sue Bird have one single WNBA MVP award between them. Shouldn't that tell you something? Or is this really just about who is the most popular UConn alum? Or let's count the MVP awards in legitimate best-ever NBA candidates: Jordan (5), Jabbar (6), Bird (3), Magic (3), Russell (5), Chamerlain (4). Lebron (4 and counting).

 

[j66kicker]

The final contest should be between some combination of Taurasi, Swoopes, and Lisa Leslie. DT and Sue Bird have one single WNBA MVP award between them. Shouldn't that tell you something? Or is this really just about who is the most popular UConn alum? Or let's count the MVP awards in legitimate best-ever NBA candidates: Jordan (5), Jabbar (6), Bird (3), Magic (3), Russell (5), Chamerlain (4). Lebron (4 and counting).

Guess you should have voted more often