Best natural Athlete

[johnhuskies95]

Where did I ever say that? FT are a very small piece of the pie, but much like his awkward jump shooting technique while at UConn I think emblematic of how his game doesn't look like it comes natural.

I've spent way too much time arguing about this, so I'm going to stop now. But again, I don't think that a poor area of Drummond's game takes away from his overall athleticism. His speed, quickness, coordination, strength, agility, and leaping ability show that he's a great natural athlete, IMO. And to me, his historic success in the NBA as a 19 and 20 year old very much does show that he's a natural athlete.

He had the best PER of any teenager in the history of the NBA, if that doesn't show a natural athleticism or ability I don't know what does.

 

[Excalibur]

Burrell was obviously much more coordinated than Drummond, I would concede that. But I don't necessarily agree that both were 10s in those categories you listed. If you're 6'6 or 6'7", you're judged differently than if you're 6'11 or 7'0. Drummond is already one of the best centers in the league after two years, Burrell was never close to that level even before the injuries. If he was a world-class athlete for his size, then I can't see how he would fail to get to that level.

I think you and john simply have no appreciation for the time and dedication that it takes to play a sport on an elite (i.e. professional) level, which helps you ignore Burrell's ability to do so in multiple sports. You keep concentrating on how good Drummond is in the NBA. Most professional athletes have concentrated on their chosen sport exclusively from their mid-teens. While Drummond picked the game up late, he's been a basketball-only guy since then. Given that he's an elite athlete (and nobody here is debating that despite you taking offense to the suggestion that someone may actually be more athletic) he's developed into a great young player who excels in rebounding, protecting the rim and finishing around the basket but is still struggling in other areas.

Burrell became a solid player in the best league on the planet (averaged 11.5 and 6 shooting 41% from behind the arc the year before his injury and 13 and 5 the year that he got hurt) before getting hurt despite having not actually having concentrated on that sport until the year before he was drafted. Burrell did a bunch of things that had never been done before. First player to be drafted in the first round of two major sports. First college hoops player to accumulate over 1,500 points, 750 rebounds, 275 assists and 300 steals. The ability to play multiple sports on an elite level is nearly irrefutable proof of superior athleticism, and you have failed to address it yet (you've really just conveniently ignored it).

 

[Rico444]

The ability to play multiple sports on an elite level is nearly irrefutable proof of superior athleticism, and you have failed to address it yet (you've really just conveniently ignored it).

What exactly does "elite" mean? If Scott Burrell played two sports at an elite level, what word would you use to describe what Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders did?

And you say I've ignored what Burrell's done; that's not even close to true. Have you read any of my posts about athleticism vs. skill? We obviously just define athleticism differently. Like I said in the post above, I define athleticism like pretty much every broadcaster and sportswriter do: speed, agility, leaping ability. That's why a guy like Carlos Gomez was touted as one of the most athletic players in baseball even before he started hitting well. That's why Stanley Robinson can have no handle and struggle with his jump shot and still be called the best athlete on the floor in just about every game. And that's why Andre Drummond can come into college for one year, have a disappointing season (based on expectations, anyway) and still be a top-10 lottery pick. He didn't get drafted that high because of his basketball skill.

Look, I'm not trying to bash Scott Burrell. He was a very good player for us and was pretty much the sole reason for The Shot. Like I said before, I was too young to watch him play every day; I don't doubt that most of the boneyard is correct in saying that he was tremendously athletic. I just think that the height difference is probably too large a gap for Burrell to make up.

 

[David 76]

Where I come from "natural athlete" is an expression used for someone who could play anything. That it came easily. It is different from best athlete. Guys that could run like the wind were called fast. Strong guys were called...well strong.
But a guy that could do most anything was called a natural athlete. To me that is Scott. There is room for others opinions.

 

[David 76]

What exactly does "elite" mean? If Scott Burrell played two sports at an elite level, what word would you use to describe what Bo Jackson or Deion Sanders did?.

I describe it as even more amazing than what Burrell did. Something even Michael Jordan could not do. Something Burrell came closer to than Andre. Unfortunately, Bo and Deon did not go to UCONN and like the legendary basketball players that are better than Andre, they don't count.

 

[superjohn]

I never thought I would see someone denigrating Drummond's athleticsm by pointing to his terrible free throw shooting, this board never ceases to amaze.

 

[champs99and04]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think it's unfair to penalize Drummond because he only plays one sport. How many 6'11 guys have ever played in the MLB or NFL? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

 

[intlzncster]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I think it's unfair to penalize Drummond because he only plays one sport. How many 6'11 guys have ever played in the MLB or NFL? I can't think of a single one off the top of my head.

He'd probably be the greatest tight end that ever lived.

 

[joober jones]

Mark Hendrickson is the only 6'10+ guy I can think of who ever played in MLB.

 

[joober jones]

Mark Hendrickson is the only 6'10+ guy I can think of who ever played in MLB.

I stand corrected. He's 6'9''. Jon Rausch is 6'11 though.

 

[CAHUSKY]

Mark Hendrickson is the only 6'10+ guy I can think of who ever played in MLB.

Randy Johnson?

 

[Rico444]

I describe it as even more amazing than what Burrell did. Something even Michael Jordan could not do. Something Burrell came closer to than Andre. Unfortunately, Bo and Deon did not go to UCONN and like the legendary basketball players that are better than Andre, they don't count.

I wasn't laying out Jackson or Sanders' case to be called the best athlete in UConn history. And that's fine that you define athleticism differently than I do.

 

[Excalibur]

I never thought I would see someone denigrating Drummond's athleticsm by pointing to his terrible free throw shooting, this board never ceases to amaze.

You are seriously misunderstanding the argument here. Nobody (ok, one guy who hasn't posted since) is debating the fact that he's an elite athlete. "Not as athletic as Scott Burrell" ≠ "Poor athlete".

If I wanted to argue like you, I'd say that Rico was "denigrating" Burrell's athleticism because he doesn't compare as favorably to the two best athletes on the planet in the second half of the 2oth century. I won't, because I know that's not what he meant.

 

[uconnfan68]

I describe it as even more amazing than what Burrell did. Something even Michael Jordan could not do. Something Burrell came closer to than Andre. Unfortunately, Bo and Deon did not go to UCONN and like the legendary basketball players that are better than Andre, they don't count.

Bo and Deion didn't play basketball (that I'm aware of), but we all know Scottie could have been a football star too.

 

[Scoe]

AD case is totally different from Burrell's. AD was a prodigy he is 21 and is already a top 5 center in the NBA, and he's still developing. Most guys have to go through blood,sweat and tears just to collect an NBA paycheck AD makes it look easy is that I would say that's a natural athlete.

 

[Dogdeacon]

You are seriously misunderstanding the argument here. Nobody (ok, one guy who hasn't posted since) is debating the fact that he's an elite athlete. "Not as athletic as Scott Burrell" ≠ "Poor athlete".

If I wanted to argue like you, I'd say that Rico was "denigrating" Burrell's athleticism because he doesn't compare as favorably to the two best athletes on the planet in the second half of the 2oth century. I won't, because I know that's not what he meant.

Thanks, exactly right. We are debating who's the best natural athlete so might need to point out where, why & how a great athlete differs compared to another great athlete.
How dare I point out that Andre had a weird looking jump shot at UConn and cite his free throw stats?! Or maybe its something he's working on and knows is key to unlocking his next steps as NBA great.

 

[Scoe]

Dwight Howard was drafted over Emeka and everyone at the time thought the Magic were crazy. Emeka has to play his tail off to get a double double, Dwight can goof off and get 20 and 20. To me natural athleticism is making it look easy, there are many examples you can use in different sports.

 

[Excalibur]

Dwight Howard was drafted over Emeka and everyone at the time thought the Magic were crazy. Emeka has to play his tail off to get a double double, Dwight can goof off and get 20 and 20. To me natural athleticism is making it look easy, there are many examples you can use in different sports.

So playing professionally in 2 sports (and being a top prospect in a third before giving it up) without being exclusively dedicated to either isn't "making it look easy"?

The best argument for Drummond is that athleticism like he has is much more scarce in guys his size. Not enough to overcome a guy who did things that nobody had done previously.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Dwight Howard was drafted over Emeka and everyone at the time thought the Magic were crazy. Emeka has to play his tail off to get a double double, Dwight can goof off and get 20 and 20. To me natural athleticism is making it look easy, there are many examples you can use in different sports.

True, but that was mostly about the fact that we'd watched Emeka excel at BBall for 3yrs and we'd never seen Dwight Howard play. It was also still in the shadow of Kwame Brown of similar ballyhooed athleticism being a complete bust. Emeka did win ROY and very likely would have been closer to Howard were it not for his back issues. But Howard was the correct #1 pick due to his athleticism.

'Making it look easy' is a very subjective definition of what we've learned is a personal and subjective term of natural athlete. Young Ray Allen would quietly put up 15pts without pressing but young Rudy Gay would quietly do the same yet never quite 'explode' the way Ray did and Rudy was somehow frustratingly too easygoing. And now Ray has to work incredibly hard for his points and can look awkward. But he survives at 39yrs old in the NBA because he's a great natural athlete and an exceptionally well conditioned & practiced one. Is Tony Allen who works incredibly hard and struggle to score consistently at the NBA level a better natural athlete than Rudy (I don't know)? What about Dennis Rodman who had certain freak athletic and 'motor' qualities but also was incredibly awkward offensively?

 

[Scoe]

So playing professionally in 2 sports (and being a top prospect in a third before giving it up) without being exclusively dedicated to either isn't "making it look easy"?

The best argument for Drummond is that athleticism like he has is much more scarce in guys his size. Not enough to overcome a guy who did things that nobody had done previously.

Like I said AD situation is different from Burrell's. We have no idea how good AD would be in another sport times are different now then they were in the 80s I'm sure AD had a pretty good idea he would be in the NBA when you know that you concentrate on one sport.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Like I said AD situation is different from Burrell's. We have no idea how good AD would be in another sport times are different now then they were in the 80s I'm sure AD had a pretty good idea he would be in the NBA when you know that you concentrate on one sport.

C'mon now, AD plays only basketball because times are different than in the 80's?! I'm pretty sure specializing in one sport has been commonplace for quite some time now. I don't recall Dr. J having to peddle insurance while in the ABA or work through pro tennis rankings in summers at UMass. Although it is essentially true that Andre was born at the wrong time and had he been a 70's baby he'd have tons of acid washed jeans, a mullet, listen to a lot of rock ballads and be a 6'10" second baseman for the Blue Jays.

 

[businesslawyer]

I can't believe this is going on. It's Burrell, and it's not even close.

Forget other sports. Burrell's vertical leap, and lateral quickness, are hard to describe if you didn't see him play. It's Burrell who literally jumped over a future NBA star and took the ball from him without fouling (or anyone even understanding what happened). It's Burrell who came out of a corner to knock Shaq's stuff into the stands without Shaq even having a clue who stuffed him and where he had come from. It's Burrell of whom Raftery once said, "if you didn't see what that UFO was it was Scotty Burrell."

Even if you are talking about nothing other than speed, quickness, hops and agility, it's Burrell.

 

[intlzncster]

This is the most overblown argument of all time because the two sides can't even agree on a specific definition of athleticism.

You might as well settle on that FIRST, and then compare players. Heck, I'm not even sure there IS a specific definition.

 

[superjohn]

You are seriously misunderstanding the argument here. Nobody (ok, one guy who hasn't posted since) is debating the fact that he's an elite athlete. "Not as athletic as Scott Burrell" ≠ "Poor athlete".

If I wanted to argue like you, I'd say that Rico was "denigrating" Burrell's athleticism because he doesn't compare as favorably to the two best athletes on the planet in the second half of the 2oth century. I won't, because I know that's not what he meant.

I'm not misunderstanding any argument, another poster said if Drummond is such a great athlete why is he such a bad free throw shooter? It's an absurd argument and you clearly seem to be missing the point.

 

[CAHUSKY]

This is the most overblown argument of all time because the two sides can't even agree on a specific definition of athleticism.

You might as well settle on that FIRST, and then compare players. Heck, I'm not even sure there IS a specific definition.

Sure there is; Scott Burrell.

 

[superjohn]

I can't believe this is going on. It's Burrell, and it's not even close.

Forget other sports. Burrell's vertical leap, and lateral quickness, are hard to describe if you didn't see him play. It's Burrell who literally jumped over a future NBA star and took the ball from him without fouling (or anyone even understanding what happened). It's Burrell who came out of a corner to knock Shaq's stuff into the stands without Shaq even having a clue who stuffed him and where he had come from. It's Burrell of whom Raftery once said, "if you didn't see what that UFO was it was Scotty Burrell."

Even if you are talking about nothing other than speed, quickness, hops and agility, it's Burrell.

Too funny.

 

[intlzncster]

Sure there is; Scott Burrell.

I'm guessing I know which side of the argument you're on?

 

[David 76]

This is the most overblown argument of all time because the two sides can't even agree on a specific definition of athleticism.

You might as well settle on that FIRST, and then compare players. Heck, I'm not even sure there IS a specific definition.

I agree. Some see this as excellence in a sport, others as ability to quickly & easily become proficient in multiple sports and some see it as running, jumping & strength.

 

[Excalibur]

I agree. Some see this as excellence in a sport, others as ability to quickly & easily become proficient in multiple sports and some see it as running, jumping & strength.

Burrell had both. He wins.

Next topic.

 

[UConnfan8]

rudy gay anyone?