Becky Hammon redux

[OneTrickPony]

The 1980 boycott was as weak a response as one could ever imagine. What's worse is that a number of high profile athlestes including Bruce Jenner and Muhammad Ali endorsed and vocally supported the President's weak decision.

Athlete's that already had their day in the sun...beau geste!

 

[Vowelguy]

The Olympics are for the athletes not the country.

Then why are the athletes grouped by country?
Why are the teams always segregated by country?

 

[Artifact]

I read that she got Russian citizenship so that she would be payed more money to play in the Olympics. If she were not payed any money would she have changed citizenship & played in the Olympics for the Russians?

 

[OneTrickPony]

Waquoit, post: 292994 said: <br />The Olympics are for the athletes not the country.

<br /> <br />Then why are the athletes grouped by country?<br />Why are the teams always segregated by country?

Makes the teams easier to identify...

 

[ThisJustIn]

There's a lovely myth out forward that Becky Hammon ( no idea who this Hammond person is) She was a bloody all american that had the misfortune to be in the draft when the abl players were folded in.

Certainly, USA basketball expects a certain level of committment from players, and you work your way up proving you have the skills as a player and as a representative of the US.

Don't deny her talent, but if she DID make time for USA basketball, which pg or 2 do you dump?

 

[msf22b]

Looked like I opened a hornet's nest, not what I intended. but to add some fuel to the conflagration, I would be happy for her if she hit the winning three; don't think its going to happen, but she has proved that she belongs, is certainly close, if a bit different than the US (team) guards.

 

[Vowelguy]

<br /> <br />Then why are the athletes grouped by country?<br />Why are the teams always segregated by country?

Makes the teams easier to identify...

I mean, why are the teams made up of players from a single country? If countries don't matter, why not group them by zodiac sign? Favorite color?

 

[arty155]

I for one love the sentence, "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel".

- Yes, I like this quote too, albeit rarely seen in the full context originally provided by Boswell, his biographer... condemning those who act in self-interest, instead of what Johnson advocated, true love of country.* But does it apply in this topic?

…”Patriotism having become one of our topicks [sic], Johnson suddenly uttered, in a strong determined tone, an apophthegm, at which many will start: "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." But let it be considered, that he did not mean a real and generous love of our country, but that pretended patriotism which so many, in all ages and countries, have made a cloak of self-interest…” p. 253, Life of Samuel Johnson (1791), Vol. II, James Boswell (re: April 7, 1775)

-Yes, she is acting in unabashed self interest. Like others, I think in selfish interest.
--"The jersey that I wear has never made me who I was.” No, your actions do. Fulfilling the contract signed for all that money does. Welcome once again to Team Russia, in the World’s Premier International Competition, leading Russia against the favored USA, et al . The jersey’s just part of the deal clarifying where you quite purposefully aligned yourself in this International Competition. “This is an opportunity to fulfill my dream of playing in the Olympics." And if that dream now involves doing your best against America’s team, is that not selfish?
-- I don’t doubt the sincerity of those who think Olympics are “really” about individual athletes, or wish it were so, but my impression whether at home or overseas is… The incredible investment nations have made, and continue to make is clearly to field national teams, that have absolutely everything to do with the intense nationalism supported (honestly or not) by the IOC's international competition, and (who can miss???) elaborately staged medal ceremonies emphasizing national anthems, national flags, national uniforms, and all the press and national propaganda surrounding it. I think most folks understand the Russians did not put Hammon under contract to help her live her dream. Certainly the USA WBB coach and players (USA MBB, USA W-Soccer...) have emphaized the past 30 days they're all about playing for their country.


- Finally, as for patriotism, I don’t know if that even applies here or not. But, if the suggestion was Samuel Johnson may indeed be germane, we know he judged on action, not words:
*"A patriot is he whose publick [sic] conduct is regulated by one single motive, the love of his country…”
p.3, The Patriot, Samuel Johnson, Addressed to the Electors of Great Britain, 1774

 

[vtcwbuff]

My first response when reading the quote was that it was obvious that the poster was clueless about Johnson's meaning. Thanks for posting the real meaning of the quote in it's original context.

Makes me wonder why that quote was posted as a stand alone in this thread though.
I'm not sure how it applies to the discussion.

 

[OneTrickPony]

I mean, why are the teams made up of players from a single country? If countries don't matter, why not group them by zodiac sign? Favorite color?

Well, we are talking about the Olympic Ideal...like many ideals, a lot is lost in the execution. This pamphlet may help:

http://www.olympic.org/Documents/Reports/EN/en_report_670.pdf

The Olympic Values of excellence, friendship and respect IMO are not advanced by finding opportunities for Jingoism or the vilification of individual participants. In ancient Greece, wars would be put on hold while participants from both sides competed peacefully...certainly we can set aside sports rivalries and national rivalries for a few weeks every four years, can't we?

 

[semper]

I adore Samuel Johnson....the Idler, ah, the best. Maybe we can do a literary thread or two after the Olmpics are over. Dickens, anyone?

 

[meyers7]

I mean, why are the teams made up of players from a single country? If countries don't matter, why not group them by zodiac sign? Favorite color?

Well then you'd only have 12 teams (maybe 13). How could you have a 16 team tourney? And where would they train? I live in Uganda, but because I'm Taurus I have to train in Japan??? And are we using the old Zodiac dates or the new ones??? Doesn't make any sense.

I mean, why are the teams made up of players from a single country? If countries don't matter, why not group them by Favorite color?

Well at least there's a possibility that we could have more than 12/13 teams. (what's Crayola up to now?? 64, 120? still short of the 204 countries we have now) And really, can you tell the difference between Chestnut, Brown and Sepia?? And what if all the really good players got together and decided they liked Burnt Orange? And what if you had to play for a team called Wild Watermelon? Or rather how are they gonna get anyone to play for them? Doesn't make any sense.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I wanna play for the Wild Watermelons! Our biggest rivals woulf be the Banana Slugs. Used to be the Akron Aphids, but they've droped off a bit...

 

[OneTrickPony]

I wanna play for the Wild Watermelons! Our biggest rivals woulf be the Banana Slugs. Used to be the Akron Aphids, but they've droped off a bit...

As long as we're not the Bedford bedpans...

 

[snowkot]

Hammond for 3 at the buzzer! Russia wins 88-86! Gold for Russia, Silver for the USA. How ya' gonna' feel about Hammond if that were to happen?

There is a huge difference between playing for another country and playing against one's own country. The fact that Hammond willingly put herself in that position just so SHE could have an "olympic experience" says much about what's important in her world.

This implication here is poppycock. If she hits the winning shot I'd think - "Too bad we had a shot at her and we passed." If she scored 82 of Russia's 88 points, including the winning "3" at the buzzer - I'd think "Too bad we had a shot at her and we passed."

IF she was asked to play for Team USA, but declined to play in Russia, this hypothetical might be more appropriate. But that is clearly not the case.

This came up 4 years ago when Kara Lawson (a board darling) got the spot over her. Responses then weren't nearly as balanced as they are here - the majority similarly took her to task for committing an un-patriotic act. It is heartening to see a much more balanced dialog here.

I reckon this - we're all taught from an early age that we can live our dreams if we want them enough and apply ourselves. The U.S. Olympic committee told Becky Hammon that her lifelong dream to play Olympic basketball was never going to happen. She went to extraordinary measures, overcame that obstacle and made it happen. She had to earn Russian citizenship. She had to MAKE the team (ask Sveta about that). Her perseverance to overcome is the very fabric of the American dream.

We should applaud her - not chastise her. And if she hits the shot that denies the US the gold medal? We offer congratulations for a game well played by a player with indomitable spirit who refused to take "No" for an answer.

 

[ThisJustIn]

The U.S. Olympic committee told Becky Hammon that her lifelong dream to play Olympic basketball was never going to happen.

Nice reworking of the actual narrative.
Later, Hammon received an invitation to try out for the U.S. team, but she said contractual obligations with CSKA left her unable to attend. Before she made her final decision, she said she and her agent, Mike Cound, reached out to USA Basketball for clarification on where she stood. They came away with the impression that she wasn't in serious contention to make the team. So Hammon took her Olympic dream elsewhere.

Her stats in the WNBA

Looks like she did not play internationally between 2002 and 2006 - the NWBL was a joke.

Perhaps others can speak to her high school and college participation in USA Basketball -- which, by the way, has a system by which coaches can recommend players.

"Unheralded" Becky won the Frances Pomeroy Naismith (though the WBCA does misspell her name. sigh)

While in college: Hammon had a distinguished career at Colorado State. Her prolific scoring made her an All-American as well as Colorado Sportswoman of the Year. She led her team to a 33-3 record in the 1998-1999 season and helped them advance to the NCAA Tournament's Sweet Sixteen. She was the WAC Mountain Division player of the year for the 1998-1999 season and surpassed University of Utah player Keith Van Horn as the WAC's all-time leading scorer.

Who was on the AA team:
Svetlana Abrosimova, Connecticut
Angie Braziel, Texas Tech
Dominique Canty, Alabama
Tamika Catchings, Tennessee
Becky Hammon, Colorado State
• Chamique Holdsclaw, Tennessee
Semeka Randall, Tennessee
Stephanie White-McCarty, Purdue
Tamika Whitmore, Memphis
Amanda Wilson, Louisiana Tech

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

The U.S. Olympic committee told Becky Hammon that her lifelong dream to play Olympic basketball was never going to happen.

Nice reworking of the actual narrative.
Later, Hammon received an invitation to try out for the U.S. team, but she said contractual obligations with CSKA left her unable to attend. Before she made her final decision, she said she and her agent, Mike Cound, reached out to USA Basketball for clarification on where she stood. They came away with the impression that she wasn't in serious contention to make the team. So Hammon took her Olympic dream elsewhere. "

___________________________________________________________________

I'm not sure where you are going. Becky was a standout College player, who, due to bad timing, did not get drafted into the WNBA, but her talent won her a spot. That said, she was not a star her first year.

My understanding at the time was that Becky was not a previous or significant participant in USA basketball and was invited to the tryout "under pressure". I also had the impression that it was unlikely she would make the team, as long time participants, including Kara and Cappie, Sue Bird and Catchings, etc. were "in line" for the spots.

I don't have a problem with USA's schema, which essentially rewards players who commit to the "program" over the years. Like others, I have no real problem with Becky's decision; unfortunately, however, I think that should it ever come to pass that she significantly "damaged" the US program as suggested in some posts by hitting a winning shot, she would be in a position of having made her bed and now having to lie in it - can you imagine the reaction of WNBA fans in the arenas?

 

[snowkot]

Responding to KnightBridgeAZ - it's really quite simple.

I am not disparaging anyone (those picking the team) or anything (the USOC, the selection process) that compelled Becky Hammon to take her talents to Moscow.

I am addressing those that criticize her for her choice.

However - to address your understanding at the time...

In 2008 - Becky Hammon was a 10 year WNBA veteran (check the Wikipedia link in THisJustIn's post above). At that same link: "Hammon had her best season of her career in 2007 posting career high averages of 18.8 ppg (fourth best) and 5.0 apg (first in WNBA)."

I suspect it would be reasonable to expect that a player averaging almost 19 points per game, while leading the league in assists might at least receive an invitation to try out for the team, especially when contrasting her numbers to Ms. Lawson's.

Not to MAKE the team - as Ms. Lawson ultimately did. But to be invited to try out for the team.

Responding to ThisJustInKnightBridgeAZ -
By not inviting her to even try out after such a season, is it not reasonable to posit that, in effect "The U.S. Olympic committee told Becky Hammon that her lifelong dream to play Olympic basketball was never going to happen."

As such, I stand by my original point in applauding Ms. Hammon for overcoming significant obstacles - not the least of which included derision for such an unpatriotic act - to live her dream.

 

[Wonkster]

The Olympics are for the athletes not the country.

I think you're delusional. Try to tell that to 99% of the world, and they'll laugh in your face.

 

[OneTrickPony]

I think you're delusional. Try to tell that to 99% of the world, and they'll laugh in your face.

Maybe he's just a dreamer...

 

[Wonkster]

... the Akron Aphids, [ha]ve droped off a bit...

Yeah, their problems started when they hired Walt Dropo as Coach.

 

[ThisJustIn]

I watched Becky (I was a NYLib season subscriber '98-last year) so I'm well aware of her talent and evolution. I'm just weary of the "unknown" "overlooked" and "denied" narrative that she (and some of her fans) put forth. I understand it -- makes for great copy. I have other issues with her current narrative which, I'm sure, influence my opinion of her as a person, but NOT a basketball player.

Her ACL and post-college/wnba/international play (what were her stats) aside - I wonder, where was she during her college years with USA Basketball? Did no coach recommend her? It was a lifelong dream, so why wasn't she part of any pool of players? As for how she reacted to her USA BBall discussions when they invited her, who cares if "she got the impression" -- it's your dream, prove'em wrong. Sacrifice. Didn't Lawson do something similar?

That being said -- I have no issue with her choices. I think it's cool -- raises the international game, gets her publicity, gets women's basketball publicity. It's all good.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

Just to be clear - I have no idea why Becky, so far as I know, was not active in the USA Basketball program. That's why I never thought she should have been picked for a senior team slot, it has always been evident that participation in the program is a major factor.

Maybe she just says now that it was "always a dream"? Lots of very good players are not necessarily involved with USA basketball - and she must have been somewhat less than heralded when younger to end up at Colorado State or is there something I don't know?

As I said, I could care less if a player - provided they are not turning down the US, and I seriously don't believe Becky was ever going to be picked or had any reason to think she was (regardless if that was her own fault) - chooses to go through the process and play for another team, so long as it is permitted. I suppose in the ideal world, I wish it wasn't permitted only because I think it is kind of silly to play for a nation not your own, but it is, she is, and for better or worse, here we are.

 

[mr006]

The intent is the intent - nations vs. nations. It may be a great story, she's proving that she can play, the Olympics may have some messed up processes and priorities (and probably always will), you may not like the idea of nations vs. nations, the selection process could very well be flawed, but that's how it is right now. Fate placed her in a nation which is the leader in her chosen sport and there is a lot of competition for the chance to represent the U.S. And I guess she took advantage of the rules in place, but doesn't mean it's any more right than if she indeed had been kept out of consideration for the team for not being part of the "establishment." Ideally, both issues should be addressed, as much as can be addressed when dealing with humans. But just sounds like a slippery slope. Wait till some filthy rich king of some tiny nation buys his own vanity Olympic medal-winning team . And what of the Russians (Sveta, for one, though I get the feeling she wasn't going to be there regardless ) who have one less spot to play for their own nation? What about their Olympic dream? Life's not always fair, as we all know. I like stories with a happy ending as much as anyone but this one leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

BTW, I do think that using the word "traitor" is uncalled for. This ain't war.

 

[snowkot]

... And what of the Russians (Sveta, for one, though I get the feeling she wasn't going to be there regardless ) who have one less spot to play for their own nation? What about their Olympic dream? Life's not always fair, as we all know. I like stories with a happy ending as much as anyone but this one leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Important distinction: Hammon wasn't afforded the OPPORTUNITY to be a part of the squad. In 2008, it wasn't as though she competed, failed, went to Russia. She was excluded (right or wrong, for whatever reason - irrelevant to the point here!) at the outset, owned it, and overcame it.

Therein lies the rub - Sveta (who happens to be one of my all-time favorite players) had the same opportunity (again- setting aside bias, politics, etc...) as Hammon to make the Russian team. In that respect, to the contrary, "life was absolutely fair" - at least as fair as any competition is...