Baylor hires Atlanta Dream HC Nicki Collen as its next HC | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Baylor hires Atlanta Dream HC Nicki Collen as its next HC

southie said:
Athletes must submit to their school a notification of transfer by certain dates to be immediately eligible at their next location. Fall- and winter-sport athletes would have to notify their schools by May 1, and spring sport athletes would have until July 1. However, because of the timing of the Council’s decision, the fall and winter sports’ notification date will be pushed this summer to July 1—a quasi-deadline day in the college sports world similar to those in professional leagues

www.si.com

The NCAA's Transfer Revolution Is Here

The approval of a one-time transfer for all without the need to sit out is a game-changing measure, those in the industry say.
www.si.com www.si.com
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Thanks for the clarification. The notification of a decision is what I was confused about.
 
SimpleDawg said:
It is concerning if Baylor will be able to sustain once the Mulkey players graduate. But I do think Collen at least had that one really good year, and her final 2 bad years could be due to players opting out because of blm and/or chemistry severely disrupted.

It's not a slam hire by any stretch of the imagination, but I think I trust someone who's coached in the WNBA over someone who only has Old Dominion to her resume. Old Dominion in 2020 isn't close to being the same realm of the talent, skill, and acumen required to survive in the SEC.

The good thing is if she's White 2.0 she probably won't last long. Baylor isn't gonna keep themselves in mediocrity for 10 years like LSU.
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Nikki coached at ODU for 3 years and turned around the program. She also was an assistant to Dawn for 9 seasons and helped turn the program into a national power and was an assistant on a championship team. Her resume going into last season was a lot better than Collen's is.
 
bballnut90 said:
Nikki coached at ODU for 3 years and turned around the program. She also was an assistant to Dawn for 9 seasons and helped turn the program into a national power and was an assistant on a championship team. Her resume going into last season was a lot better than Collen's is.
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Well we could argue this. Assistantship (unless it's within the same university) and weak non-Power 5 conferences (unless you dominate your conference like Gonzaga) means absolutely nothing to me. It's not good to bet on assistants. Sometimes you get a Vic and Jeff, but most of the time you're gonna get someone who piggybacked off of the head coach.

Both are not really strong hires, but for me you gotta at least have something from a level higher than the Conference USA for me to take you seriously.
 
Maybe Collen will be a great choice but she has no track record as a HC in college. Certainly her credentials exist from all her assistant coaching experience. Recruiting prowess remains to be seen at the elite Div. 1 level. Her husband will be an assett as will her recent HC WNBA success. Tough to follow a coach like Mulkey though.
 
SimpleDawg said:
Well we could argue this. Assistantship (unless it's within the same university) and weak non-Power 5 conferences (unless you dominate your conference like Gonzaga) means absolutely nothing to me. It's not good to bet on assistants. Sometimes you get a Vic and Jeff, but most of the time you're gonna get someone who piggybacked off of the head coach.

Both are not really strong hires, but for me you gotta at least have something from a level higher than the Conference USA for me to take you seriously.
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What makes you trust someone with WNBA experience more than someone with mid-major/P5 assistant experience?

Historically speaking, WNBA head coaches who've transitioned over to the collegiate level have largely struggled. I don't believe there is one success story.

Going through the wikipedia page: (link) here are the ones I recognized who coached collegiately after coaching in the W and all struggled:

-Stephanie White (coached in WNBA finals, train wreck at Vanderbilt)
-Van Chancellor (4 WNBA championships, had one good season at LSU before it derailed
-Cynthia Cooper (1 WNBA season coaching, never found much success coaching collegiately)
-Suzie McConnell (former WNBA Coach of the Year with similar track record to Collen, 1 good season with 2 bad ones after, then collegiately only made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years of coaching)
 
I wish her well but this just seems .....inexplicable. One of the top four programs in the country, for years, and this is the best they can do? Wow! This makes me really nervous about what is going to happen when Geno & Chris retire! All I can say is, I hope she makes me eat my words. It would be very sad to see a program like Baylor drift into mediocrity.
 
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bballnut90 said:
What makes you trust someone with WNBA experience more than someone with mid-major/P5 assistant experience?

Historically speaking, WNBA head coaches who've transitioned over to the collegiate level have largely struggled. I don't believe there is one success story.

Going through the wikipedia page: (link) here are the ones I recognized who coached collegiately after coaching in the W and all struggled:

-Stephanie White (coached in WNBA finals, train wreck at Vanderbilt)
-Van Chancellor (4 WNBA championships, had one good season at LSU before it derailed
-Cynthia Cooper (1 WNBA season coaching, never found much success coaching collegiately)
-Suzie McConnell (former WNBA Coach of the Year with similar track record to Collen, 1 good season with 2 bad ones after, then collegiately only made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years of coaching)
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Yea there hasn't been many examples of WNBA coaches succeeding in college, but I'm sure we can find countless examples of non-Power 5 coaches bombing once they reach a stronger conference, and based on what we've seen of McCray..... that argument is holding really strong.

I'm not meaning this to be an argument in any way. Just me personally...... in a contest between 2 not strong candidates, the WNBA coach gets the nod from me slightly. I'm not really seeing this as a strong hire for Baylor either. And if Mulkey WAS Baylor recruiting, then it'll get bad once the Mulkey players leave. They still might be top half of the conference, but if recruiting starts dropping, we're gonna see a major power shift in Texas.
 
SimpleDawg said:
Yea there hasn't been many examples of WNBA coaches succeeding in college, but I'm sure we can find countless examples of non-Power 5 coaches bombing once they reach a stronger conference, and based on what we've seen of McCray..... that argument is holding really strong.

I'm not meaning this to be an argument in any way. Just me personally...... in a contest between 2 not strong candidates, the WNBA coach gets the nod from me slightly. I'm not really seeing this as a strong hire for Baylor either. And if Mulkey WAS Baylor recruiting, then it'll get bad once the Mulkey players leave. They still might be top half of the conference, but if recruiting starts dropping, we're gonna see a major power shift in Texas.
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To each his/her own, thanks for sharing. We'll see what happens, but I have a hard time seeing Baylor keeping up its recruiting without Kim there unless Collen and her staff are fantastic recruiters. I don't think of Waco as a coveted destination for most high school basketball players and I don't see Collen as a name that will draw in recruits. After next year the only holdovers from Kim's era (assuming they all stay) will likely be Andrews, Carr, Oliver, Owens and Dauda if she stays committed. It'll be a very very different looking Baylor squad in a couple of years.
 
Good luck to Collen! if anything it shows she has gumption. Is there a tougher act to follow this side of Storrs in the WCBB landscape? a program that wasn't on the map to a national power... How to maintain that level of success and expectation?

It will very interesting to follow her journey...
 
bballnut90 said:
What makes you trust someone with WNBA experience more than someone with mid-major/P5 assistant experience?

Historically speaking, WNBA head coaches who've transitioned over to the collegiate level have largely struggled. I don't believe there is one success story.

Going through the wikipedia page: (link) here are the ones I recognized who coached collegiately after coaching in the W and all struggled:

-Stephanie White (coached in WNBA finals, train wreck at Vanderbilt)
-Van Chancellor (4 WNBA championships, had one good season at LSU before it derailed
-Cynthia Cooper (1 WNBA season coaching, never found much success coaching collegiately)
-Suzie McConnell (former WNBA Coach of the Year with similar track record to Collen, 1 good season with 2 bad ones after, then collegiately only made 1 NCAA tournament in 11 years of coaching)
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Also Michael Cooper. Paul Westhead. Probably more. And most not generally successful, as you say.

That said, be nice about Van. He had respectable college success "before" he became a WNBA coach. I think by the time he got to LSU he was just old. I am not a Van fan. Heard him announcing a game this year and he still talks about the bas-keeeeet-baaaalll. I grit my teeth every time.
 
DefenseBB said:
So now the key question is who will she get to be her lead recruiter, I don’t care how good a chef, without the ability to get good ingredients, dinner will be average at best...lobster bisque vs. corn chowder...
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Actually I love corn chowder, despise lobster bisque.
 
I suspect that Baylor’s decision was influenced by TX bringing in Vic last year. While Baylor WBB probably doesn’t concern itself too much with the rest of the Big 12, what in-state rival TX does certainly gets their attention.

Just like TX, Baylor wanted to fill their HC job quickly to tamp down fan angst and limit any additional player/recruit migration to other schools, and they probably wanted a big name college HC. But Waco is not Austin. While Collen has a solid resume, the W is not the place you typically go to find a top D1 WBB coach.

With that said, it would be really interesting to know who else Baylor reached out to about the job. Joni Taylor and Kim Barnes Arico’s names were both mentioned at some point, and both indicated they were staying put at UGA & Michigan respectively. Other top college coaches may also have been contacted and not been interested.

If one top college coach after another was not interested in the Baylor job, I suspect the AD felt considerable pressure to fill the job, so he turned to a second tier coach and he is hoping for the best.
 
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Only knew of her when she became an assistant with the Sun. Was extremely surprised when she got the Atlanta job, but Kurt Miller had nothing but praise for her on that hire. Did a really good job her first year, could be a good hire. Now she just has to get players to believe in her.
 
skilz said:
Hadn’t heard anything yet on Dauda. Heard from Smith, Egbo, Andrews, Bickle, and the Grad Transfer - all staying. Expect more to stay.
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I may have missed this but is Kim’s coaching staff moving with her to LSU?
 
ME Husky Fan said:
I may have missed this but is Kim’s coaching staff moving with her to LSU?
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It’s announced that AC Kaylin Rice will be heading to LSU with Mulkey, along with 4 members of her Baylor operations staff. Baylor AC’s Brock & Messer will not be going to LSU. Whether or not Cullen retains them remains to be seen. Also, there is no word on the status of Kim’s daughter, Makenzie Fuller, who worked for her at Baylor.
 
oldude said:
It’s announced that AC Kaylin Rice will be heading to LSU with Mulkey, along with 4 members of her Baylor operations staff. Baylor AC’s Brock & Messer will not be going to LSU. Whether or not Cullen retains them remains to be seen. Also, there is no word on the status of Kim’s daughter, Makenzie Fuller, who worked for her at Baylor.
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There is limited chatter on the Baylor board that Brock is staying, and that Messer is going to join Kim at LSU. Time will tell if this is speculative or real.
If Messer goes, the Baylor situation will be trending towards what GG dealt with in moving from Duke to Texas--a weak connection to the local recruiting scene.
Right now it's mostly gossip and few known facts.

Stay tuned.
 
KnightBridgeAZ said:
Also Michael Cooper. Paul Westhead. Probably more. And most not generally successful, as you say.

That said, be nice about Van. He had respectable college success "before" he became a WNBA coach. I think by the time he got to LSU he was just old. I am not a Van fan. Heard him announcing a game this year and he still talks about the bas-keeeeet-baaaalll. I grit my teeth every time.
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I love Van, he was a great coach, just using him as an example to provide more evidence of my theory. A lot of W coaches had success at the collegiate level prior to joining the league and decided to give the WNBA a shot.
 
SimpleDawg said:
Yea there hasn't been many examples of WNBA coaches succeeding in college, but I'm sure we can find countless examples of non-Power 5 coaches bombing once they reach a stronger conference, and based on what we've seen of McCray..... that argument is holding really strong.

I'm not meaning this to be an argument in any way. Just me personally...... in a contest between 2 not strong candidates, the WNBA coach gets the nod from me slightly. I'm not really seeing this as a strong hire for Baylor either. And if Mulkey WAS Baylor recruiting, then it'll get bad once the Mulkey players leave. They still might be top half of the conference, but if recruiting starts dropping, we're gonna see a major power shift in Texas.
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I love this idea that Big programs can just buy their next coach and raid Louisville or whatever other established program coach is hot. The only ones that I can think of that did that is Texas twice with GG and Vic, and now LSU with Kim - with GG and Kim they were already on the outs with their school/AD, and everyone knew Vic was headed back to Texas as soon as a good job showed up. I don't even include Mike Neighbors as 1) he wasn't really 'established' at Washington and left the place after his one good class graduated, 2) he was headed home, 3) he left the cupboard empty - I don't think Jody Wynn was responsible for 1-17 in the Pac her first season.

The fact is the choices for HC for all programs most of the time are: 1) really good assistant coaches at really good programs, 2) really good HC at lower level D1 programs, 3) itinerant HC at P5 programs that have not established themselves/their program, 4) really good coaches at really good programs at D2/D3 level. It appears that WNBA HC is a now also being tapped. Another one to add to that list was Seton Hall hiring Anne Donovan - also not a success. Most HC hires are mediocre at best in WCBB, MCBB, and FBS - it is a tough, competitive world in college sports and D1 and even P5 is full of mediocre programs in all sports many of which have always been mediocre.

The bright spot for this hire is that WNBA HC is a small part of the resume and college assistant is a larger portion of the resume - one also hopes her husband provides some extra support in the intricacies of being a college HC.

It also appears that they reached out to at least one of the 'itinerant P5' HC before settling on this hire.
 
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UcMiami said:
Another one to add to that list was Seton Hall hiring Anne Donovan - also not a success.
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Good one. Completely forgot about Anne at SH. WNBA championship and Olympic Gold medal on her coaching resume.
 
bballnut90 said:
I think it's quite underwhelming. Shades of Stephanie White. Zero collegiate head coaching experience and one good WNBA seasons followed by 2 pretty bad ones.
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Mike Petersen says he learned yesterday morning before practice that Nicki Collen was going to Baylor
 
Hiring a ‘home run’ head coach is like catching lightning in a bottle. Pat Summit was hired as a graduate assistant and got promoted to head coach when her predecessor quit. Geno had no division one head coaching experience when he took over UCONN. Coale was a high school coach before Oklahoma. Louisville was Walz’s first head coach job. All of them were the right person in the right place at the right time. I almost think you are better off taking a chance on someone very promising than trying to buy an established head coach. You just don’t know if their style will be successful at another school.
 
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The “more than casual” fans of Baylor WBB like the hire. The t-shirt fans not so much.

Collen had great recommendations across the board, a solid resume, and “fits” Baylor. As a private school, fit is a bigger issue than large state schools. She had good success with the Dream until the top players opted out over the BLM fight with ownership.

Rumors have two top assistants [one a former Baylor player with solid ties to Texas AAU programs, one a coach who previously coached with Collen with long term ties to Atlanta and Florida AAU programs] as targets for Collen to hire. Given the pay scale compared to most programs [other than Texas, Baylor pays ACs at a substantially higher level than most programs in this part of the country], Collen will get her pick among the best options. Although Collen is making less $ than Mulkey was paid, the other budget $$ remain intact. AC pay, recruiting, travel, etc. were not cut. Collen has the budget to build her own legacy.

Obviously, only time will tell of this hire was good [true of any hire]. But in the short term most of the key players are opting to return. Gusters transferred. Top recruit Dauda hasn’t spoken. Ursin is a mystery due to school issues. She wants to use the extra year for nursing degree but Baylor nursing is in Dallas while the main campus is in Waco. That issue may drive her to LSU. If Dauda reports, Baylor is NC caliber [adding the three quality transfers to an already solid roster].
 
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SimpleDawg said:
It is concerning if Baylor will be able to sustain once the Mulkey players graduate. But I do think Collen at least had that one really good year, and her final 2 bad years could be due to players opting out because of blm and/or chemistry severely disrupted.

It's not a slam hire by any stretch of the imagination, but I think I trust someone who's coached in the WNBA over someone who only has Old Dominion to her resume. Old Dominion in 2020 isn't close to being the same realm of the talent, skill, and acumen required to survive in the SEC.

The good thing is if she's White 2.0 she probably won't last long. Baylor isn't gonna keep themselves in mediocrity for 10 years like LSU.
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Collen's 1st bad year had nothing to with players opting out. It was basically the same team she had the previous year minus the team's best player Angel McCoughtry.
 
Well I am going to wish her well and good luck. With all her connections she should be able to find good asst coaches to help her build her team. There are few great recruiters out there and you can judge that by how many top teams remain top teams each season. You have some one year wonders and you have a few that get a few good players and that lasts a few years then they fall from stardom. Geno is one of the all time greats and the greatest thing about Geno is he has maintained or should I say gotten better year after year. He continues to attract great players and continues to set records.
 
oldude said:
It’s announced that AC Kaylin Rice will be heading to LSU with Mulkey, along with 4 members of her Baylor operations staff. Baylor AC’s Brock & Messer will not be going to LSU. Whether or not Cullen retains them remains to be seen. Also, there is no word on the status of Kim’s daughter, Makenzie Fuller, who worked for her at Baylor.
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Kim confirmed at the softball game messer is coming to LSU as the associate HC and recruiting coordinator. Brock is not coming. She is still looking to fill spots on her staff.

Kim told Makenzie to focus on having her kid first before anything else. A job will always be available for her in BR. Makes sense to focus on that right now.
 
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SECbbfan24 said:
Kim confirmed at the softball game messer is coming to LSU as the associate HC and recruiting coordinator. Brock is not coming. She is still looking to fill spots on her staff.

Kim told Makenzie to focus on having her kid first before anything else. A job will always be available for her in BR.
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Thanks for the update. Do you have any idea if Brock will be retained at Baylor?
 
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