Basketball schools don't want expansion?

[WestCoastHusky]

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_easts_fate.html

Should we close shop now?

 

[businesslawyer]

I've said this before and will say it again. The Catholics would be crazy to invite in Temple and UCF if the core, basketball playing football schools (UConn, WVU and LV) aren't going to stay. If they are going to stay, my sense is the basketball schools will cover their noses and do what has to be done for the football conference to be rebuilt.

So this can't be done quickly, and it can't be done until Louisville, WVU and UConn either leave or give up on leaving and agree to much harsher exit fees. There is time for this to play out. Pitt and Syracuse aren't leaving until June of 2014. That's two and a half more football seasons and three full basketball seasons.

Other than short term damages to recruiting, there will be no real harm to anyone if plans are only being finalized a year, or even 15 months, from now.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Blaudschon's Big East source is Providence College, right?

I am a little surprised by the tone of the source, because several of the hoops schools, particularly Villanova and Marquette, are rumored to be viewing a split as armageddon for their programs.

The tone of this is diametrically opposite of Lucci's articles or any of the New York writers. Puzzling.

 

[SubbaBub]

The BB's don't want to be stuck with a hodge podge of far flung schools if FB dissolves, so they do have a legitimate interest in who comes on board. They also like the extra money the higher profile that BCS provides the conference even if they get no direct FB money. Secretly though, I think at least a few aren't all that sad to see Pitt and Cuse leave. They just moved up two spots in the standings.

 

[toppencil]

http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2011/10/big_easts_fate.html

Should we close shop now?

This doesn't jibe with prior reports that all the member presidents unanimously voted to expand for football. I don't know what to think.

 

[Rumrunner]

Liucci's source is Rutgers. The conf call was only between the fb schools. Afterwards Marinatto informed the bb schools what went on. Blaudschun's sources are in the BE, not just PC.

Blaudschon's Big East source is Providence College, right?

I am a little surprised by the tone of the source, because several of the hoops schools, particularly Villanova and Marquette, are rumored to be viewing a split as armageddon for their programs.

The tone of this is diametrically opposite of Lucci's articles or any of the New York writers. Puzzling.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

This is really bad. I guess we are completely screwed and it really is all the fault of the basketball schools. I thought the hybrid was salvageable but they just really can't cooperate with the needs of the football schools so screw them. Let's see who ends up in a better place the football schools or them. The only good thing is that nobody is going anywhere until 2014 but WTF is wrong with the bball schools? I think we should announce that we are leaving the Big East now so that at least we can get out by 2014 and not be held here by the Basketball schools and USF or something beyond that. Or at least announce that we are taking our football indy.

 

[toppencil]

This is really bad. I guess we are completely screwed and it really is all the fault of the basketball schools. I thought the hybrid was salvageable but they just really can't cooperate with the needs of the football schools so screw them. Let's see who ends up in a better place the football schools or them. The only good thing is that nobody is going anywhere until 2014 but WTF is wrong with the bball schools? I think we should announce that we are leaving the Big East now so that at least we can get out by 2014 and not be held here by the Basketball schools and USF or something beyond that. Or at least announce that we are taking our football indy.

That's just a bit too simplistic. It makes no sense to invite new members if existing members are at the door ready to bolt.
Before trying to add more schools for football there is a small issue about stabilizing the exisiting 6 football schools by increasing the exit fee. I recall that has not been agreed to. This article talks about a number of what ifs that could tear Big East football apart completely.

Since all the school president's voted for expansion, we don't have all the facts here. I suspect the exit fee issue and the potential loss of more schools is the real issue. Until there is a real commitment from all the football members, expansion may be on hold.

 

[metsfan2323]

This is why an alliance with the Mountain West would be the most workable solution. Their 7 teams, with our six, and Navy.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Blaudschon's Big East source is Providence College, right?

I am a little surprised by the tone of the source, because several of the hoops schools, particularly Villanova and Marquette, are rumored to be viewing a split as armageddon for their programs.

The tone of this is diametrically opposite of Lucci's articles or any of the New York writers. Puzzling.

You can add Georgetown to that list.

A couple of the original members of this conference basically view football as a foolish endeavor that UConn will give up on once we come to our senses. They still don't get it and see little difference between the football product that we have, the one that Nova has and the one that Georgetown has.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

This is why an alliance with the Mountain West would be the most workable solution. Their 7 teams, with our six, and Navy.

I agree. That would be the best solution right now. But they have 3 members on the way so we could do a 20 team East-West Superconference to tide us over until the ACC or Big 10 call.

I would want the name changed but I could definitely live with that right now. The basketball only schools are going to kill our athletic program.

UConn
Rutgers
Temple
Cincinnati
West Virginia
East Carolina
Louisville
South Florida
Central Florida
Navy

Boise State
Colorado State
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Wyoming
Fresno State
Nevada
Hawaii
Air Force

20 Team super conference anyone? I guess you play everyone once in basketball and play everyone in your division once for football and the 2 division champs meet for the championship game. I'm sure the other conferences would continue to take teams from this conference but there would easily be enough teams to sustain it.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

In this case, I think the BB members all assume the BE is going to die in football and will become a basketball-only conference, and they don't want it to be diluted with crappy CUSA teams kicking and screaming as the only two or three football members left when all or almost all of the old football schools are gone.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

In this case, I think the BB members all assume the BE is going to die in football and will become a basketball-only conference, and they don't want it to be diluted with crappy CUSA teams kicking and screaming as the only two or three football members left when all or almost all of the old football schools are gone.

I personally think they are stupid for that. They would still be more marketable with a football component in my opinion in my opinion even if it is CUSA but hey if they think they can make it work with just basketball let them go for it. Some of those crappy CUSA schools are investing more into their campuses and athletic programs than most of the basketball schools ever will. The CYO league is not something I would pay to see, that is for sure.

 

[gars44]

This is why an alliance with the Mountain West would be the most workable solution. Their 7 teams, with our six, and Navy.

Yes. Except everyone still harbors the belief that better things are just over the horizon. And after reading Blaud's article, who's to say they're wrong?

 

[gars44]

You can add Georgetown to that list.

A couple of the original members of this conference basically view football as a foolish endeavor that UConn will give up on once we come to our senses. They still don't get it and see little difference between the football product that we have, the one that Nova has and the one that Georgetown has.

This is so true. I was reading somewhere that the priests that run the bb onlies are so living in the 60's and 70's in the sense that they feel that the basketball side of the league is the most important and that this is a Catholic conference that deigned to allow in the sectarians. They wouldn't bat an eye if we all left. They'd be good with it. There are the seconds-in-charge at these institutions talking them out of it, but the prevailing attitude at the top is that they can do without us.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

This thread has spiraled out of control. It seems like most posters on this board would prefer UConn in the MAC for football and A10 for basketball than in the Big East with the hoops schools. Blaudschon is reporting from one source that is directly contrary to every other Big East writer. Let's let this shake out a bit.

 

[intlzncster]

I agree. That would be the best solution right now. But they have 3 members on the way so we could do a 20 team East-West Superconference to tide us over until the ACC or Big 10 call.

I would want the name changed but I could definitely live with that right now. The basketball only schools are going to kill our athletic program.

UConn
Rutgers
Temple
Cincinnati
West Virginia
East Carolina
Louisville
South Florida
Central Florida
Navy

Boise State
Colorado State
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
Wyoming
Fresno State
Nevada
Hawaii
Air Force

20 Team super conference anyone? I guess you play everyone once in basketball and play everyone in your division once for football and the 2 division champs meet for the championship game. I'm sure the other conferences would continue to take teams from this conference but there would easily be enough teams to sustain it.

Goes back to my ol' 'The Big Conference' (said a while ago in jest), but now you've got two divisions as well, The Big East and The Big West.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I personally think they are stupid for that. They would still be more marketable with a football component in my opinion in my opinion even if it is CUSA but hey if they think they can make it work with just basketball let them go for it. Some of those crappy CUSA schools are investing more into their campuses and athletic programs than most of the basketball schools ever will. The CYO league is not something I would pay to see, that is for sure.

Look, they aren't going D1 for football so why do they care? You think Cincy and Rutgers add anything to the BE for basketball? Seriously? SFU is a school they cannot wait to get rid of, for travel reasons alone. BCS football costs tons of money, it is not all that profitable for most. Plenty of FBS schools make more more from athletics than some BCS schools. UConn, Louisville and WVU would be losses, as are Pitt and Cuse, but they can make those up.

Take the non FBS BE teams, add Xavier, Butler and St. Joes and I guarantee you they can get a damned good tv package. Anyone who suggests that CFU or ECU has a higher profile than Georgetown is smoking some serious stuff. Football brings in more money per school because so few play, but basketball is the more popular sport nationwide at the college level.

 

[jostar1]

Tom Luicci's story in The Star-Ledger :

If the Big East can’t make it through its latest crisis, the reason for its demise will be simple: Too many people are pulling in too many directions at the foundering league at a time when a selfless, united front is the conference’s only chance at survival.
“There’s no unity. They can’t get everyone on the same page, and that’s a major problem,” said one leading college official, who requested anonymity because he is not authorized to publicly comment on league business.

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2011/10/big_east_expansion_talks_cloud.html

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Lucci's article is a little more even-handed than Blaudschon's. This appears to be more a case of solving a complicated, multi-variable equation than simply one set of schools blocking another.

Villanova is being childish. Their alumni and athletic department have been telling the Administration for 10 years that they needed to upgrade their football program, and they did nothing until the Big East threatened to pull their open ended offer, at which point they made a proposal that was absolutely ridiculous and they had to know would get rejected. Then it hits the fan, and they want in the league.

Obviously the hoops schools would prefer not to water down the basketball league, but the most odious hoops programs: Navy, AFA, Boise, are not on the list for hoops. Houston should be respectable, Temple is very good (I wouldn't be surprised if most basketball schools view Temple as Nova's problem, not theirs), and they can swallow hard on UCF.

What is becoming apparent is everyone wants a commitment from the Big East 6 to move forward.

 

[uconNYC]

Can't blame the B-Ball schools. Lets say BE invites ECU and UCF and then UConn and UL bolt. They are stuck with those schools in their CYO basketball league and the only way to get rid of them is to breakaway meaning they would have to surrender the BE name and revenues.

Solution is to evolve the BE Football Conference into a single sports alliance (kind of like Hockey East in Ice Hockey) and give out invites to the best football programs out there. I think it might just work.

 

[nadav]

We are going to have to sign the deal, maybe lower it to $15 mil and hope we are lucky enough to have to break it. Until then, what is the best we can do? This is what it looks like for me:

Football
East
1) Uconn
2) Rutgers
3) Army*
4) Navy*
5) Temple
6) USF
________
West
7) Louisville
8) West Virginia
9) Cinci
10) SMU
11) Houston
12) UCF

*fb only

Basketball

Home and Home with division, 5 home and 5 away with random rotating schedule

1) Uconn
2) Providence
3) Rutgers
4) St John's
5) Seton Hall
____________
6) Villanova
7) Temple
8) Georgetown
9) Cinci
10) Xavier
_____________
11) Louisville
12) West Virginia
13) South Florida
14) SMU
15) Houston
___________

16) DePaul
17) Marquette
18) ND
19) Butler
20) Central Florida

 

[TheRogers]

In this case, I think the BB members all assume the BE is going to die in football and will become a basketball-only conference, and they don't want it to be diluted with crappy CUSA teams kicking and screaming as the only two or three football members left when all or almost all of the old football schools are gone.

+1

You can't blame them for this either. If the football teams stabilizes, I think they'll be open to expansion.

 

[HartbeatHusky]

Take the non FBS BE teams, add Xavier, Butler and St. Joes and I guarantee you they can get a damned good tv package.

We'll see, I really doubt it. We may have a different definition of damned good TV package as well. Those schools will be nothing but an afterthought once the Big East football schools leave.