B1G Ramblings

[nelsonmuntz]

Based on what has happened lately expecting to get a full share joining P4 league is not realistic. So you would not be in favor of UConn joining P4 league if they only received 50% share for the first 10 years?

We don't have a 50% share for 10 years offer. The last two offers we got were:

ACC: Nothing. They didn't even offer us the SMU deal.

Big 12: Matched our basketball revenue for us to travel all over the country. They required a massive football investment through 2030, at which point they would consider us. The Big 12 and UConn ended up terminating discussions, although it is not clear who terminated them first.

Those are the two offers we had. If we beg our way into the ACC or Big 12 without a major revenue boost, we will have seen our last Final Four.

It is funny how many posters are adamantly against a Big East ACC merger despite that being the most likely path to getting UConn into a P4 conference.

 

[Hoophound]

We don't have a 50% share for 10 years offer. The last two offers we got were:

ACC: Nothing. They didn't even offer us the SMU deal.

Big 12: Matched our basketball revenue for us to travel all over the country. They required a massive football investment through 2030, at which point they would consider us. The Big 12 and UConn ended up terminating discussions, although it is not clear who terminated them first.

Those are the two offers we had. If we beg our way into the ACC or Big 12 without a major revenue boost, we will have seen our last Final Four.

It is funny how many posters are adamantly against a Big East ACC merger despite that being the most likely path to getting UConn into a P4 conference.

I don't think people are really against it, they just can't see how it would work. There's too much dead weight in the Big East. The ACC is full of dead weight too, but at least those schools can provide football games for content.
I'd love a merger, but when I think about, I realize that there should really only be a place for UConn, Nova and SJU. PC and Georgetown probably make sense too.

The other schools have various combinations of issues that hurt their viability whether its academics, location or lack of funding. For instance, Marquette and Creighton are the next best programs, but they have off the beaten path locations and other issues. Yes, the ACC is bi-coastal now, but I'm not sure they want to go to Nebraska for basketball games.

 

[CL82]

I don't think people are really against it, they just can't see how it would work. There's too much dead weight in the Big East. The ACC is full of dead weight too, but at least those schools can provide football games for content.
I'd love a merger, but when I think about, I realize that there should really only be a place for UConn, Nova and SJU. PC and Georgetown probably make sense too.

The other schools have various combinations of issues that hurt their viability whether its academics, location or lack of funding. For instance, Marquette and Creighton are the next best programs, but they have off the beaten path locations and other issues. Yes, the ACC is bi-coastal now, but I'm not sure that want to go to Nebraska for basketball games.

Why does PC make the cut?

 

[JwittersPAC]

Why does PC make the cut?

You only question PC making the cut? Why does Georgetown make the cut? You could even question St John since once their billionaire booster decides he is not providing funding anymore St John goes back to being mediocre. UConn (no brainer), and then Villanova with the rest of those teams being dead weight in a merger. It is really not a merger by ACC-Big East but just ACC cherry picking the best teams.

 

[JwittersPAC]

You only question PC making the cut? Why does Georgetown make the cut? You could even question St John since once their billionaire booster decides he is not providing funding anymore St John goes back to being mediocre. UConn (no brainer), and then Villanova with the rest of those teams being dead weight in a merger. It is really not a merger by ACC-Big East but just ACC cherry picking the best teams.

The amount of time spent talking up PC and deciding best path forward for UMass on this site is quite puzzling. Outside the states they reside in, neither school sports programs register at all on a national level. But again why cannot PC eventually join the ACC? PC has as good as a chance as anyone. lol

 

[CL82]

You only question PC making the cut? Why does Georgetown make the cut? You could even question St John since once their billionaire booster decides he is not providing funding anymore St John goes back to being mediocre. UConn (no brainer), and then Villanova with the rest of those teams being dead weight in a merger. It is really not a merger by ACC-Big East but just ACC cherry picking the best teams.

I can make an argument for St. John's because of New York, Villanova because because of Philadelphia, and Georgetown because of DC. But PC because of Providence? That's a bridge too far.

 

[UConnJim]

My recommendation is to not do anything until there is a big change to the whole landscape. I wouldn't be shocked if football breaks off or there is a lawsuit that forces it to break off. I wouldn't be shocked if several programs cry "uncle" on the spending and leave P4 leagues. I wouldn't be shocked if the prestige private universities broke off and formed their own league. I wouldn't be shocked if the shameless leaching by schools like BCU causes the P4 to go to performance revenue splits, which could cause some schools to drop out of P4 leagues. I wouldn't be shocked if the ACC and Big East merge.

We need one of those things, or something like it, to happen. We need to be added to a league as a full partner. We can't afford an SMU deal or a 10 year buy in.

The ACC is already at performance revenue splits after settling the FSU/Clemson dispute and you will really start to see that starting this year. Virginia Tech estimated that the range of payouts for the legacy ACC could be $20 million+ difference from the ACC "Success Initiative".

In the VT presentation, they showed that the bottom 4 schools for athletic operating expenses in the ACC are privates, so they are going to feel the financial stress over time.

 

[Kolumbo]

My recommendation is to not do anything until there is a big change to the whole landscape. I wouldn't be shocked if football breaks off or there is a lawsuit that forces it to break off. I wouldn't be shocked if several programs cry "uncle" on the spending and leave P4 leagues. I wouldn't be shocked if the prestige private universities broke off and formed their own league. I wouldn't be shocked if the shameless leaching by schools like BCU causes the P4 to go to performance revenue splits, which could cause some schools to drop out of P4 leagues. I wouldn't be shocked if the ACC and Big East merge.

We need one of those things, or something like it, to happen. We need to be added to a league as a full partner. We can't afford an SMU deal or a 10 year buy in.

Big East-ACC merger would be great if nothing else happens but of course it won't happen. Programs like Marquette, DePaul, Xavier and Creighton would put the conference in Big Ten territory (in addition to ND and Pitt). The eastern flank of the Big East fills the ACC void from New England & NYC to DC. Overlay those 2 conferences and you own the entire east coast. Of course there is dead weight like bcu and butler but there are work-arounds.

Big Ten and SEC own football. The Big 12 thinks it has the best basketball. The ACC is struggling all around and needs to do something drastic or completely implode. A merger would make the new conference the premier basketball conference and it would dominate March.

 

[Hoophound]

You are all kind of making my point. Nobody even agrees who belongs.

I include PC because the school has money, fans and commitment to being good. They are also a regional rival to us, Cuse and BC.

Georgetown doesn’t really deserve it but the academics in the ACC would probably want it. They also have the money to fund it.

SJU is in because they are the NYC team that puts the league in MSG on the regular. Thats a no brainer.

 

[CL82]

I include PC because the school has .... commitment to being good

Do they though. Here's PC's record since the start of this millennia.
--Year----------------Overall-------------Conference

They are not exactly lighting the world on fire

 

[Hoophound]

Do they though. Here's PC's record since the start of this millennia.
--Year----------------Overall-------------Conference
View attachment 119152
They are not exactly lighting the world on fire

Yes. Big NIL, great facilities and they invested in a very good coach. The fact they hired a guy that Cuse wanted tells you everything you need to know. Besides that, their fans are there in good years and bad. PC will be back in the top 1/4 of the league on the regular.

 

[ZooCougar]

You only question PC making the cut? Why does Georgetown make the cut? You could even question St John since once their billionaire booster decides he is not providing funding anymore St John goes back to being mediocre. UConn (no brainer), and then Villanova with the rest of those teams being dead weight in a merger. It is really not a merger by ACC-Big East but just ACC cherry picking the best teams.

Other than Nova, Creighton, St. John's and Marquette the rest of the conference is the A-10.

 

[CL82]

Yes. Big NIL, great facilities and they invested in a very good coach. The fact they hired a guy that Cuse wanted tells you everything you need to know. Besides that, their fans are there in good years and bad. PC will be back in the top 1/4 of the league on the regular.

Well, it's one thing too have a commitment to being good, but another thing to have a history of being good.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I don't think people are really against it, they just can't see how it would work. There's too much dead weight in the Big East. The ACC is full of dead weight too, but at least those schools can provide football games for content.
I'd love a merger, but when I think about, I realize that there should really only be a place for UConn, Nova and SJU. PC and Georgetown probably make sense too.

The other schools have various combinations of issues that hurt their viability whether its academics, location or lack of funding. For instance, Marquette and Creighton are the next best programs, but they have off the beaten path locations and other issues. Yes, the ACC is bi-coastal now, but I'm not sure that want to go to Nebraska for basketball games.

The would never be a merger between the ACC and Big East if the linear cable model was projected to be the standard for the next 10 or even 5 years, but that is definitely NOT the case. Sooner than later, college sports is going to be distributed as a subscription service where the conference's games will be bundled. It basically already is, along with a lot of other products. In a world where the conferences are responsible for driving their own subscriptions, membership could be very different.

The Big East has basketball and cities. St. John’s market is probably worth more than the bottom third of ACC markets, combined. Every Big East program except Seton Hall is in a big or mid-sized city, and all of them have a fan base beyond their alumni.

That ACC TV contract has 10 years left, although I would not be shocked if ESPN tries to buy the ACC out of that deal before it is up. There is also a world where the ACC keeps its ESPN TV deal while bundling with other schools to sell subscriptions, which would have a revenue split with ESPN. In all of those cases, having a larger footprint in urban areas would be helpful for the ACC, or Big 12 for that matter.