B10 less likely?

[junglehusky]

on the courant.com chat, Dez C. seems to think so

11:27
Desmond:
I'm not feeling the Big 10 and not hearing a lot of chatter on it, either. The only thing I did hear about the Big 10 is it's not a real good fit and logistically it would be a nightmare especially opposed to being in the ACC. The other thing UConn would be the smallest school in the conference. I think Indiana is right now with like 30,000 students. Think ACC or "new" BE with UConn., I guess, until further notice because who knows but if I were a betting man, which I'm not (I'll do a couple of scratch-offs now and then) but I'd be thinking ACC here...

 

[jrazz12]

I think the B1G proponents here all understand that that option is much less likely than jumping to the ACC. However, it remains that the B1G has in theory 3-4 spots available right now, and has explicitly announced that it wants into the NY/NJ market. The 3 schools that allow that to happen are ND, UConn and RU. It's up to the B1G to make that decision and come calling, and its certainly a decent possibility.

 

[UConnJim]

I guess Dez should do his homework. Here are some facts:

School # of undergrads
Iowa 20.6k
Nebraska 19.3k
Northwestern 8.4k
Notre Dame 8.4k

UConn 17.3k (22k including branches which are feeders for Storrs)

UConn is on the low end, but not the smallest.

 

[ctchamps]

UConn would be ahead of Northwestern's 16,475 students but well behind Nebraska's 24,593 students. All the other institutions are over 30,000 with OSU over 64,000.

 

[Pudge]

umm ... you all should read the UConn site sometimes. And I do think we can count all our Programs. WE ARE definitely bigger than Northwestern; I don't even have to look that up. Dez Conner just brainfarted.

 

[UConnJim]

Nebraska is 24.6 including graduate students. Iowa is 30.8k including grad students. UConn is 25.4k including grad students and 30k if you include the branches.

 

[upstater]

Often overlooked in this analysis of the future of colleges and universities is the cost per student. It's a very important statistical measure. It tells you how much headroom schools have in relation to the general economic situation of their taxpaying constituents. When your cost per student is relatively high (such as UConn's), you need resources to subsidize it. One way to do it is research money. UConn brings in about $250 million for 25,000 students. Next, there's tuition. Given how low UConn's tuition is relative to the majority of Big10 schools and its regional peers, UConn has a little bit of headroom for expansion in terms of raising cash through tuition. Next, there's the state subsidy in taxes. Given that UConn's tuition is relatively low, that it is not on the high end in terms of research, that it has a small endowment, I can assume that the state funds the university at a higher rate than its peers in the south and midwest. As long as the state remains stable, UConn can continue to count on state support. In some midwest states such as Michigan and Wisconsin, funding for higher education is under assault. Never mind Pennsylvania where the state long ago gave up funding higher education at Penn State and satellite campuses. I would venture to guess, just by looking at the political tea leaves (sorry for the pun) that Conn. will subsidize higher education at a greater level than the midwest schools who used to be known worldwide as the greatest public institutions, with the greatest amount of tax support.

What I'm suggesting is that if the will is there, UConn's academic future has room for expansion that might not be available in the midwest. At the very least UConn should be able to compete against the midwest's advantages in terms of endowments (all very sizeable, and which bring in $50-$75 million yearly for those schools). A $1k tuition rise however at UConn for 25,000 students (subtracting 25% for financial aid) yields about $20 million. Combined with fewer cuts from state taxes (which are ranging in the $25-50 million area for most schools around the country), and you've already closed the advantage in the endowment.

The SUNY's, by the way, are another school system to keep an eye on. Until this month, they charged below $5k in tuition, and out-of-state was below $10k. These schools have a lot of headroom for growth.

 

[Stinger92860]

Often overlooked in this analysis of the future of colleges and universities is the cost per student. It's a very important statistical measure. It tells you how much headroom schools have in relation to the general economic situation of their taxpaying constituents. When your cost per student is relatively high (such as UConn's), you need resources to subsidize it. One way to do it is research money. UConn brings in about $250 million for 25,000 students. Next, there's tuition. Given how low UConn's tuition is relative to the majority of Big10 schools and its regional peers, UConn has a little bit of headroom for expansion in terms of raising cash through tuition. Next, there's the state subsidy in taxes. Given that UConn's tuition is relatively low, that it is not on the high end in terms of research, that it has a small endowment, I can assume that the state funds the university at a higher rate than its peers in the south and midwest. As long as the state remains stable, UConn can continue to count on state support. In some midwest states such as Michigan and Wisconsin, funding for higher education is under assault. Never mind Pennsylvania where the state long ago gave up funding higher education at Penn State and satellite campuses. I would venture to guess, just by looking at the political tea leaves (sorry for the pun) that Conn. will subsidize higher education at a greater level than the midwest schools who used to be known worldwide as the greatest public institutions, with the greatest amount of tax support.

What I'm suggesting is that if the will is there, UConn's academic future has room for expansion that might not be available in the midwest. At the very least UConn should be able to compete against the midwest's advantages in terms of endowments (all very sizeable, and which bring in $50-$75 million yearly for those schools). A $1k tuition rise however at UConn for 25,000 students (subtracting 25% for financial aid) yields about $25 million. Combined with fewer cuts from state taxes (which are ranging in the $25-50 million area for most schools around the country), and you've already closed the advantage in the endowment.

The SUNY's, by the way, are another school system to keep an eye on. Until this month, they charged below $5k in tuition, and out-of-state was below $10k. These schools have a lot of headroom for growth.

Does the state still leverage slot machine money from the casinos? I recall seeing an article that said it was in excess of 100M a year, but I thought it was spread throughout the state.

 

[BlueDogs]

B10 is a much better fit. The only better place to be would the SEC, which aint happening. B10 membership would catapult the FB program to a whole new leve of stature. Culturally, it is a better fit too.

Ill keep hoping. Sometimes great things happen.

 

[BlueDogs]

B10 is a much better fit. The only better place to be would the SEC, which aint happening. B10 membership would catapult the FB program to a whole new leve of stature. Culturally, it is a better fit too.

Ill keep hoping. Sometimes great things happen.

 

[gabect]

Dez is a good guy but for a second there he forgot that unlike Syracuse and Northwestern, UConn is a state school.

 

[Nostical]

I love Dez, but I disagree here. Hearing little about the Big 10 means a lot is going on. I would totally discount two elements seemingly important to his conclusion.
1. Although he did not mention AAU, we are headed there.
2. The bold initiatives set forth by Pres Herbst forshadows a much larger University with a much larger endowment.
Herbst is deadly serious about bringing UConn into the big time and, as a State school, it will fit nicely into the Big 10. Just as importantly, it will fit better into the academic strata she envisions.
Finally, with the NY/NJ markets laying out there like a fumbled ball on a muddy field, The Big 10 and UConn will pounce on it.

 

[jrazz12]

I love Dez, but I disagree here. Hearing little about the Big 10 means a lot is going on. I would totally discount two elements seemingly important to his conclusion.
1. Although he did not mention AAU, we are headed there.
2. The bold initiatives set forth by Pres Herbst forshadows a much larger University with a much larger endowment.
Herbst is deadly serious about bringing UConn into the big time and, as a State school, it will fit nicely into the Big 10. Just as importantly, it will fit better into the academic strata she envisions.
Finally, with the NY/NJ markets laying out there like a fumbled ball on a muddy field, The Big 10 and UConn will pounce on it.

I agree with all this.

Can someone clear up the AAU issue? I understand you must be a member to be in the B1G, and that we are not. So how quickly can we join, is that possible?

 

[businesslawyer]

There is really no reason to think the Big Ten is interested in UConn at the current time. I can (and have) made the argument that it would make a lot of sense for them to take UConn and Rutgers, but that is different than believing that they are really interested in doing it.

 

[Excalibur]

I agree with all this.

Can someone clear up the AAU issue? I understand you must be a member to be in the B1G, and that we are not. So how quickly can we join, is that possible?

It's not true. B1G sources debunked that myth last year.

 

[upstater]

I agree with all this.

Can someone clear up the AAU issue? I understand you must be a member to be in the B1G, and that we are not. So how quickly can we join, is that possible?

One, not all members of the Big10 are in the AAU. Nebraska was being voted out of the AAU at about the time it was being voted into the Big10. The people voting Nebraska out included Big10 schools, AND the committee chair that organized the ouster was a Big10 President. Two, Notre Dame isn't in the AAU. Three, research dollar availability is shrinking nationally because of illiquidity in financial markets and the budget deficit. This means research money isn't growing at a steady pace. It also means the pools for research grants are shrinking. Since the AAU is not an academic organization at all but rather a lobbying organization, I tend to doubt they are in expansionary mode. In fact, the opposite is true. all the talk is about kicking schools out. Less money available means a smaller group is preferred. When research begins expanding in the USA, only then will schools be added precisely because more dollars sent to politicians to help fund national research will result in a bigger pie for more members.

But, as far as the Big10 goes, the AAU is not totally irrelevant, but it certainly isn't a factor.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Hearing no information about us and the B1G does not at all mean it's more likely, it means it's less likely.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

I don't see us going to the B1G.

Here's the deal. Other than having pipe dreams about adding Texas and/or ND, the best option for the ACC, if they are going to go beyond 14 is UConn. It's all about convincing the school presidents to accept the proposal. John Swofford is not going out of his way one bit for the 2 schools who may be opposed to UConn being added (BCU & Miami, and I'm not convinced both are against the move). He will, however, listen strongly to FSU, Clemson, and VT. If any of those schools do not see UConn as a net positive, then we are in trouble. Those are the schools that, despite the new $20 million exit fee, are suseptible to being swallowed up by the SEC.

If their main concern is enhancing the football profile of the ACC, there is no reason to think they would sign on to accept Cuse and Pitt and not us. But, it's all going to hinge on what ND decides to do.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

There is really no reason to think the Big Ten is interested in UConn at the current time. I can (and have) made the argument that it would make a lot of sense for them to take UConn and Rutgers, but that is different than believing that they are really interested in doing it.

I think there is a block of schools that do not want any further expansion, and they control the process. If Texas and friends to the Pac 12 does not force a move, then I don't think anything can.

 

[Nostical]

PAC commissioner Larry Scott reportedly created a hybrid revenue sharing idea re dealing with The Longhorn Network, which made the UT to PAC 12 sound like a done deal. Now, appropriating Scott's brainchild, Delaney may be offering a similar creative model for The Big Ten Network to share revenues (somehow) with TLHNetwork. And if the model works, how about talking to ND re their Comcast TV deal.
Could we see the Big Ten corral both UT and ND in the coup of the century based on the creativity of PAC man Scott?
Irony abounds.

 

[upstater]

PAC commissioner Larry Scott reportedly created a hybrid revenue sharing idea re dealing with The Longhorn Network, which made the UT to PAC 12 sound like a done deal. Now, appropriating Scott's brainchild, Delaney may be offering a similar creative model for The Big Ten Network to share revenues (somehow) with TLHNetwork. And if the model works, how about talking to ND re their Comcast TV deal.
Could we see the Big Ten corral both UT and ND in the coup of the century based on the creativity of PAC man Scott?
Irony abounds.

Nope. They will share it all. Texas is probably figuring out that with Texas folded into the Big10 network the revenues would skyrocket and that they would make a ton more cash than in the Pac10. Add Notre Dame and it's all over.

You're talking about $25-30 million per team jumping to $35 million. Texas stood to make that much in the Big12, less in the Pac10. It's money needs may be met up north. But is it willing to chuck old alliances? Doubt it. They are playing with the Pac10's minds.

 

[Mr.Phat]

I agree with all this.

Can someone clear up the AAU issue? I understand you must be a member to be in the B1G, and that we are not. So how quickly can we join, is that possible?

Nebraska broke with that tradition. It is/was an AAU school but is losing it's affiliation or has already lost it. I believe the B 10 knew this was coming when it approved Nebraska's admission to the conference.

 

[Sean]

So, I don't think we will go to the Big 10. That being said, it's baffling to me why people care what Dez Connor thinks. He knows as much as anyone on this board. The best part of his chats is when people ask him non-football questions and he has funny responses. Good guy, great effort...but not exactly conference alignment insider.

 

[UConnJim]

Remember this article from last year? Also, Big 10 has plenty of football powers, maybe they need another basketball power as well?

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/index.ssf/2010/01/if_the_big_ten_does_expand_it.html

 

[UConnJim]

Or this article from last year?

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6270202/21083956