Australian Open

[gsmooth]

My brain hurts reading this. How are we still arguing again Djokovic as the GOAT? What metric can you possibly point to? Grand slams? Head to head? Weeks at #1? Obviously Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever, but aside from that I don't think its close.

I would say Djokovic is the GOAT, but he doesn't blow away Nadal. Joker's metrics are better such as more grand slam titles, more ATP titles, more weeks at #1, but Nadal is excellent at those metrics, too. The biggest differentiation is the Djokovic has won 6 ATP finals titles while Nadal has zero. The ATP courts are not good for Nadal's style.

 

[Chin Diesel]

I would say Djokovic is the GOAT, but he doesn't blow away Nadal. Joker's metrics are better such as more grand slam titles, more ATP titles, more weeks at #1, but Nadal is excellent at those metrics, too. The biggest differentiation is the Djokovic has won 6 ATP finals titles while Nadal has zero. The ATP courts are not good for Nadal's style.

. If there is a surface that zeroes out your style you aren't in the conversation for GOAT in tennis.

 

[gsmooth]

. If there is a surface that zeroes out your style you aren't in the conversation for GOAT in tennis.

Oh Nadal is definitely in the conversation, he is just #2 behind Djokovic. Indoor hard courts didn't "zero out" Nadal's style, it just was not great for him. He still went to the finals of the ATP's, he just couldn't win them. It's not much different than clay courts not being good for Pete Sampras. He never got past the semifinals of the French Open and he only got to the semifinals once. But Pete Sampras is in the GOAT conversation and has been for a while. I wouldn't say he is the GOAT, but he certainly deserves a mention in GOAT conversations, it's not absurd to mention Pete's name in those conversations.

 

[6Nattys4Us]

Geez, a little history: Connors would be the GOAT if going by titles, finals in, finals won.

1. Connors - 109 / 164 / 109
2. Federer - 103 / 157 / 109
3. Djokovic - 99 / 141 / 99

Recency bias effect in this thread is keeping Joker / Nadal as the best

 

[IndyLives]

My brain hurts reading this. How are we still arguing again Djokovic as the GOAT? What metric can you possibly point to? Grand slams? Head to head? Weeks at #1? Obviously Nadal is the greatest clay court player ever, but aside from that I don't think its close.

Nadal & Joker were basically even - head-to-head & Slams won. OK. Joker has a very slight edge, but Nadal clearly wasnt anywhere near 100% healthy in the their last few meetings in the last few years - (unlike Joker, Nadal plays hurt and doesnt use it as an excuse). Majority of Joker Slams is the AO which is widely considered far inferior than the other 3 Slams in terms of level of competition, quality of tennis, prestige, etc. Like I said, in their Primes & Healthy, give me Nadal over Joker.

 

[superjohn]

Nadal & Joker were basically even - head-to-head & Slams won. OK. Joker has a very slight edge, but Nadal clearly wasnt anywhere near 100% healthy in the their last few meetings in the last few years - (unlike Joker, Nadal plays hurt and doesnt use it as an excuse). Majority of Joker Slams is the AO which is widely considered far inferior than the other 3 Slams in terms of level of competition, quality of tennis, prestige, etc. Like I said, in their Primes & Healthy, give me Nadal over Joker.

Joker won majors with a torn hamstring and a torn stomach muscle. If he wasn't banned from the US Open and the Aussie Open and Wimbledon wasn't canceled he would have a couple more majors. He was the best player in the world, and favorite to win in all of them and was playing some of the best tennis of his career. He was also kicked out of the US Open he was favored to win for accidentally hitting the ball lady with a tennis ball. With all of that his accomplishment far exceed Nadal and Federer.

You have no leg to stand on.

 

[alexd]

BTW.... it seems like you're all into guys ..... but its #19 veteran Madison Keys (USA) vs. #1 Aryna Sabalenka in the women's final at 3:30am Saturday.

 

[superjohn]

BTW.... it seems like you're all into guys

Absolutely when it comes to sports.

 

[Drew]

BTW.... it seems like you're all into guys ..... but its #19 veteran Madison Keys (USA) vs. #1 Aryna Sabalenka in the women's final at 3:30am Saturday.

An amazing run for Madison - it was a superhuman effort for her to come back and beat Iga in the semis. I don’t know that I see her beating Sabalenka in the final but there should be some huge hitting in this match. Can’t wait.

 

[Drew]

Shows you what I know.. huge congrats to Madison Keys. What an incredibly difficult path she went through to win this - earned every bit of it

 

[Drew]

 

[ec33]

Shows you what I know.. huge congrats to Madison Keys. What an incredibly difficult path she went through to win this - earned every bit of it

What an amazing run overcoming all of her demons. And what a way to win it -- both the consistency and mental toughness to get to that point and then just outright winning the tournament in the last game.

I am just glad she got the one major (finally), but I am hoping this is the start of a nice run for her over the next few years (if she doesn't run off with her new husband to start a family).

 

[Samoo]

I am just glad she got the one major (finally), but I am hoping this is the start of a nice run for her over the next few years (if she doesn't run off with her new husband to start a family).

Something never said about a male player.

 

[Travelman6]

If you're talking GOAT you gotta add in Peter Sampras, Andre Agassi, and Jon McEnroe into the convo.

 

[johnhuskies95]

Sinner wins and was absolutely dominant, didn't face a break point all match. He's 10-0 in his last 10 matches against top 10 opponents, and hasn't dropped a set during that streak.

I'm not sure how you beat him on hardcourt, he has borderline prime Djokovic movement skills with way more power. In the past you could wait for him to start spraying unforced errors, but he doesn't really do that anymore and it's tough to win that way in a best of 5.

I think he'll start to figure out grass as well, clay will be a little harder because he can't hit through guys as much, and Alcaraz is a really tough out on that surface.

 

[superjohn]

Sinner wins and was absolutely dominant, didn't face a break point all match. He's 10-0 in his last 10 matches against top 10 opponents, and hasn't dropped a set during that streak.

I'm not sure how you beat him on hardcourt, he has borderline prime Djokovic movement skills with way more power. In the past you could wait for him to start spraying unforced errors, but he doesn't really do that anymore and it's tough to win that way in a best of 5.

I think he'll start to figure out grass as well, clay will be a little harder because he can't hit through guys as much, and Alcaraz is a really tough out on that surface.

It's crazy tennis went from Djokovic, Nadal, and Federer dominating for 20 years to Sinner and Alcaraz who are going to dominate for a long time.