ASU hires CTT replacement

[azfan]

Wonder if anyone on the BY has insight into the new coach and background.

Arizona St. hires Delaware's Adair as new coach

Arizona State has hired Delaware coach Natasha Adair as the school's next women's basketball coach.

www.espn.com

 

[southie]

I get the feeling based on this hire (and others) that a lot of programs are hiring replacement head coaches at a lower salary than their predecessor; at least that's the vibe I'm getting even though official salaries haven't been announced for many the recent hires the last week or two.

 

[UcMiami]

I get the feeling based on this hire (and others) that a lot of programs are hiring replacement head coaches at a lower salary than their predecessor; at least that's the vibe I'm getting even though official salaries haven't been announced for many the recent hires the last week or two.

Not unusual - if a coach has been on staff for a number of years there is usually an escalation in compensation especially on a second contract. A new hire often starts at a lower salary and will have a similar escalation. Same happens in most walks of life. Of course is you are buying a successful head coach from another program that might get thrown out the window.

Was Baylor going to pay a new coach whatever Kim had earned in her last year (after bring three NCs?) (But Kim probably got a raise at LSU as they were buying her away from Baylor.)

 

[southie]

Not unusual - if a coach has been on staff for a number of years there is usually an escalation in compensation especially on a second contract. A new hire often starts at a lower salary and will have a similar escalation. Same happens in most walks of life. Of course is you are buying a successful head coach from another program that might get thrown out the window.

Was Baylor going to pay a new coach whatever Kim had earned in her last year (after bring three NCs?) (But Kim probably got a raise at LSU as they were buying her away from Baylor.)

Sports is different than other walks of life. The competition to hire a head coach who can win sooner rather than later is not the same as an IT company hiring a computer programmer, or a bank hiring a VP. Good head coaches looking for new jobs are in high demand.

Any A.D. who makes head coaching hiring mistakes won't last long. Head coaches are expected to win quickly. The cliche' "you get what you pay for" often happens when an A.D. goes cheap on a replacement hire.

 

[DefenseBB]

I get the feeling based on this hire (and others) that a lot of programs are hiring replacement head coaches at a lower salary than their predecessor; at least that's the vibe I'm getting even though official salaries haven't been announced for many the recent hires the last week or two.

How about a little evidence before such speculation...You're an armchair warrior, try using Google and see what it tells you.

 

[azfan]

Wonder if anyone on the BY has insight into the new coach and background.

Arizona St. hires Delaware's Adair as new coach

Arizona State has hired Delaware coach Natasha Adair as the school's next women's basketball coach.

www.espn.com

Looks like Coach Adair is 48 years old with a track record of progressing up the ranks. Now in the Pac-12 I'm really interested if any of the BYers have knowledge of her recruiting prowess as well as program development.

 

[azfan]

Just found this very interesting article from 2014.

Adair soon became known for her prowess on the hardwood at Einstein High School, where she averaged a double-double. Over one 10-game stretch her junior year she averaged 16 points and 18 rebounds per outing. It wasn’t long before college coaches took note and began lining up outside the Adair home.

One such coach was a young, confident man from Connecticut named Geno Auriemma, who was just beginning to build a program. He wore a nice suit, and loafers without socks. He talked about his vision for the future in which Adair would play alongside another preseason high school All-American, Rebecca Lobo. Syracuse came knocking, so too did South Florida.

One night in October, it all changed.

Standing Tall: Natasha Adair - The College Today

This is the story of a young girl crying in her mother's arms. A middle schooler named Natasha, who was taller than the other kids.

today.cofc.edu

 

[UcMiami]

Sports is different than other walks of life. The competition to hire a head coach who can win sooner rather than later is not the same as an IT company hiring a computer programmer, or a bank hiring a VP. Good head coaches looking for new jobs are in high demand.

Any A.D. who makes head coaching hiring mistakes won't last long. Head coaches are expected to win quickly. The cliche' "you get what you pay for" often happens when an A.D. goes cheap on a replacement hire.

Well - not often do women's basketball coaches get bought out from comparable teams - most ADs in the women's game are hiring a coach from a lesser schools or are hiring another team's assistant coach - there are not a lot of bidding wars for services. ASU is hiring to replace a well respected fairly successful P5 coach - unless they raided another successful P5 teams coach, they were offering a promotion for whoever they hired, and as such there was probably minimal competition for that coach and the coach would get a big pay rise without matching what the previous coach was being paid at the end of their tenure.

ASU wasn't looking to hire Dawn Staley or another established winning P5 coach, and the pool of unemployed quality coaches is basically zero. Hiring a mid major coach, or a DII or DIII coach or someone's assistant isn't going to coast that much.

Not sure what happened at Georgia and it sounded as if UCF upped the ante, so it is possible they forced GA to pay more for their new coach than they did for Taylor but UCF is in a unique position because they are headed to a P5 conference - most mid-majors just wave goodby to departing women's coaches when a P5 comes calling.

Every year their are a few coaches being bought in the women's game and the rest are being hired as a promotion from assistant or from a lesser level of competition. Same happens for other sports as well - we see the headlines for the big football hires, but most of the openings are probably filled like WCBB.

 

[southie]

How about a little evidence before such speculation...You're an armchair warrior, try using Google and see what it tells you.

Do you know the meaning of the word "speculation" ?

Not sure what the rest of your post means. You believe the new head coach is going to earn more than what CTT was earning?

 

[UcMiami]

She brought her College of Charleston team to Gampel in 2012. We had played there in 2011 (not sure why?) and then Adair brought them north for her second game as the HC having just taken over the team.

 

[southie]

Well - not often do women's basketball coaches get bought out from comparable teams - most ADs in the women's game are hiring a coach from a lesser schools or are hiring another team's assistant coach - there are not a lot of bidding wars for services. ASU is hiring to replace a well respected fairly successful P5 coach - unless they raided another successful P5 teams coach, they were offering a promotion for whoever they hired, and as such there was probably minimal competition for that coach and the coach would get a big pay rise without matching what the previous coach was being paid at the end of their tenure.

ASU wasn't looking to hire Dawn Staley or another established winning P5 coach, and the pool of unemployed quality coaches is basically zero. Hiring a mid major coach, or a DII or DIII coach or someone's assistant isn't going to coast that much.

Not sure what happened at Georgia and it sounded as if UCF upped the ante, so it is possible they forced GA to pay more for their new coach than they did for Taylor but UCF is in a unique position because they are headed to a P5 conference - most mid-majors just wave goodby to departing women's coaches when a P5 comes calling.

Every year their are a few coaches being bought in the women's game and the rest are being hired as a promotion from assistant or from a lesser level of competition. Same happens for other sports as well - we see the headlines for the big football hires, but most of the openings are probably filled like WCBB.

Depends on if you are committed to trying to have a winning program, and how attractive (reasons) you are to prospective coaching candidates. Texas hired Vic Schaefer from Miss. State who was willing to match Texas' offer; so, there kind of was a bidding war.

Look what LSU had to pay to get Mulkey from Baylor. Baylor tried hiring a big name, but it didn't happen. Consequently, they are saving more than a $1 million a year in what they're probably paying Collen.

A&M reached out to Jeff Waltz, and then Louisville had to pay him more and announced a pay raise and contract extension. So, A&M wasn't going cheap. Blair was being severely underpaid; but, A&M still had to pay substantially more than what he was making, and probably a couple hundred thousand more than what Taylor was earning at Georgia.

Someone posted the other day that ASU was cheap in paying its women's head coaches. So, I took their word for it.

 

[azfan]

Well - not often do women's basketball coaches get bought out from comparable teams - most ADs in the women's game are hiring a coach from a lesser schools or are hiring another team's assistant coach - there are not a lot of bidding wars for services. ASU is hiring to replace a well respected fairly successful P5 coach - unless they raided another successful P5 teams coach, they were offering a promotion for whoever they hired, and as such there was probably minimal competition for that coach and the coach would get a big pay rise without matching what the previous coach was being paid at the end of their tenure.

ASU wasn't looking to hire Dawn Staley or another established winning P5 coach, and the pool of unemployed quality coaches is basically zero. Hiring a mid major coach, or a DII or DIII coach or someone's assistant isn't going to coast that much.

Not sure what happened at Georgia and it sounded as if UCF upped the ante, so it is possible they forced GA to pay more for their new coach than they did for Taylor but UCF is in a unique position because they are headed to a P5 conference - most mid-majors just wave goodby to departing women's coaches when a P5 comes calling.

Every year their are a few coaches being bought in the women's game and the rest are being hired as a promotion from assistant or from a lesser level of competition. Same happens for other sports as well - we see the headlines for the big football hires, but most of the openings are probably filled like WCBB.

CTT has 500 career wins so I wouldn't qualify her successful career as fairly. In the most recent listing I could find 2020 there were 76 coaches in the entire history of woman's college basketball who achieved 500 victories. So I think we could drop the fairly.

You're absolutely correct Ray Anderson and the administration at Arizona State University has no interest in either a high profile coach, a very successful coach, or a very prominent one. They're just not willing to pay that price. CTT fostered a pisitive culture here but unfortunately did not cultivate a significant donor base. I think it would have been difficult to cultivate such a base anyway and very very few programs have that.

ASU has average or slightly below average support for women's basketball. The Valley of the Sun has a wide range of sports activities for fans and unlike the program down I-10 there is not been a growing enthusiasm for women's basketball at the collegiate level. Even with Diana Taurasi and until recently Brittney Griner the Mercury didn't have significantly above average attendance.

So with a limited budget Ray Anderson invested some time in a search and while I hope Adair with his number one choice I have a suspicion that he was probably turned down more than once.

A founding member of the Black Coaches United, Adair has been recognized by the organization, as well as Advancement of Blacks in Sports (ABIS), as one of the top women's basketball coaches in the country. Adair prides herself on being known as a game-changer as it relates to social justice and creating a safe space for athletes to find and use their voice; where she was a guest on ESPNW's "Around the Rim" with LaChina Robinson and Delaware's UD Winning Women in Athletics: Trailblazers and Changemakers Webinar Series. She is Delaware's representative on the CAA United for Change committee along with being the head coach representative at the Student-Athletes Against Social Injustice Task Force educational session.

 

[UcMiami]

CTT has 500 career wins so I wouldn't qualify her successful career as fairly. In the most recent listing I could find 2020 there were 76 coaches in the entire history of woman's college basketball who achieved 500 victories. So I think we could drop the fairly.

You're absolutely correct Ray Anderson and the administration at Arizona State University has no interest in either a high profile coach, a very successful coach, or a very prominent one. They're just not willing to pay that price. CTT fostered a pisitive culture here but unfortunately did not cultivate a significant donor base. I think it would have been difficult to cultivate such a base anyway and very very few programs have that.

ASU has average or slightly below average support for women's basketball. The Valley of the Sun has a wide range of sports activities for fans and unlike the program down I-10 there is not been a growing enthusiasm for women's basketball at the collegiate level. Even with Diana Taurasi and until recently Brittney Griner the Mercury didn't have significantly above average attendance.

So with a limited budget Ray Anderson invested some time in a search and while I hope Adair with his number one choice I have a suspicion that he was probably turned down more than once.
View attachment 74916
A founding member of the Black Coaches United, Adair has been recognized by the organization, as well as Advancement of Blacks in Sports (ABIS), as one of the top women's basketball coaches in the country. Adair prides herself on being known as a game-changer as it relates to social justice and creating a safe space for athletes to find and use their voice; where she was a guest on ESPNW's "Around the Rim" with LaChina Robinson and Delaware's UD Winning Women in Athletics: Trailblazers and Changemakers Webinar Series. She is Delaware's representative on the CAA United for Change committee along with being the head coach representative at the Student-Athletes Against Social Injustice Task Force educational session.

I think it is a good hire - she isn't a rock star, but definitely solid with a decent success at Delaware (.621 winning record.)

CTT is 488-294 at AZ (.624) with 14 NCAAs and 2 E8 and 3 S16 appearances - within the Pac she is 247-190 for .565 And overall she is 528-334 for .613. That is certainly good, but not great for a P5 coach - she has 2 Pac regular season crowns and 6 2nd place finishes but she also had 9 .500 seasons or worse in the Pac in her 25 seasons. Her average season across her 28 year history is 19-12 - to me fairly successful, above average, whatever.

 

[azfan]

I think it is a good hire - she isn't a rock star, but definitely solid with a decent success at Delaware (.621 winning record.)

CTT is 488-294 at AZ (.624) with 14 NCAAs and 2 E8 and 3 S16 appearances - within the Pac she is 247-190 for .565 And overall she is 528-334 for .613. That is certainly good, but not great for a P5 coach - she has 2 Pac regular season crowns and 6 2nd place finishes but she also had 9 .500 seasons or worse in the Pac in her 25 seasons. Her average season across her 28 year history is 19-12 - to me fairly successful, above average,

Appreciate your thoughts. We both agree that CTT is successful which probably could end the discussion.

Successful coaching is successful coaching. A great teacher at the high school d3, d2 d1 level all work in a profession in which the results are reflected the character of their teams as well as the results on the court.

As you originally pointed out you considered various degrees of success with fairly perhaps being below average success? Obviously as a long time Sun Devil fan I'm biased although I think there's a firm foundation in my assessment of Coach Turner Thorne as successful.

Clearly not as successful as the pillars of the profession and not in the same category as Geno, Tara, Pat or those other great coaches who could be referred to by their first name only. I guess I would argue she's in that next category right beneath that who can be referred to by initials a la CTT.

Thoughtful and interesting analysis. I think your historical scope provides an interesting point for discussion. Setting aside for a second the tiny number of women's basketball coaches who achieve 500 victories which reflects the rarity of a long time coaching career I wondered if you considered the beginning of that career.

After a turnaround at NAU bringing success to a program that struggled for 15 years prior to her arrival she moved down i-17 to an equally daunting situation as ASU had suffered mightily in the 10 years before she came.

CTT winning per cent .613

Fairly successful coaches

Diane Nolan 570 wins. . 530 per cent
Wanda Waktins 549 . 553
Brenda Paul 507. 519
Jane Albright. 512. 519

I would point to the turnaround at two programs, competing at a high level in a power five conference, maintaining an overall winter percentage above .600 as clearly a notch above the fairly successful category exemplified by the fairly successful coaches above.

But we're knit picking aren't we. 500 wins in coaching is an achievement by less than 100 coaches over 50 plus years signifies an exclusive club.

As a fan of the U I suspect that you would have assessments about the successful coaches in the past whether it's on the hardwood or on the gridiron that might be tempered by your geographic location and admiration for the program.

Likewise as a lifelong Sun Devil (78, 80) and a long time fan of admirer of the work that CTT has invested in our program, I'm quite comfortable in recognizing her success as a coach. The Five-Year graduation rate of her players over the years is very close to 100%. In her final semester as a coach her team achieved a GPA of 3.74 which is consistent with the prior academic success of her student athletes over the years.

Coaches Nolan, Watkins, Albright and Paul, are fairly successful coaches. On this I'm confident we can agree.

CTT is a successful coach. I feel very grateful to have had the opportunity to watch the results of her work over the years here in Tempe. She will not easily be replaced. Coach Adair appears to be a wonderful coach and I'm confident she'll fill the big shoes left behind by CTT.

Appreciate the opportunity to disagree agreeably on the BY. I really find the commitment to women's basketball on this board to be truly inspiring and gives me hope that broader appeal, greater visibility, and greater rewards lay ahead for all the participants in WBB.

 

[LETTERL]

I was glad to see you mention Wanda Watkins. She WAS Campbell's WBB for many, many years.

 

[HuskyMJ]

i would understand this hire for maybe Syracuse if Felicia didn't accept it. but Delaware is about as far as Tempe as you can get. it doesnt appear like she has west coast work experience. Her records at her first two stops are pretty mediocre and it looks like she left Georgetown before she could get let go. because who is making that move from Big East to Colonial? 2 good years at Delaware but I think Arizona State could have done better????

 

[azfan]

i would understand this hire for maybe Syracuse if Felicia didn't accept it. but Delaware is about as far as Tempe as you can get. it doesnt appear like she has west coast work experience. Her records at her first two stops are pretty mediocre and it looks like she left Georgetown before she could get let go. because who is making that move from Big East to Colonial? 2 good years at Delaware but I think Arizona State could have done better????

It was my reaction entirely. CTT had recruited heavily in the Midwest, Texas, the Pacific Northwest and Canada. Recently international players appeared on the roster.

The question becomes can Coach Adair entice athletes from the Northwest to come out to Arizona.

I'm not sure if I would support your reading of her record however.

She took over a College of Charleston team that had gone 7 and 23 and immediately turned the program around to 16 and 16 followed by another successful season before moving on.

Moving on to Georgetown she took a 4 win team to consecutive nine and nine conference records and winning records.

So she has demonstrated expertise in coming in to troubled programs and turning them around. Her last two years at Delaware were outstanding.

My questions revolve around her age, I would have liked the Sun Devils to have considered a younger coach perhaps in their late thirties particularly by reaching to a nonpower 5 conference for their final selection. Adair is only 7 years younger than CTT.

I'm very anxious to see how she fills out her staff. Wondering if she'll bring coaches with her from Delaware.

For me the key I guess is how well she can recruit. Part of the decline that CTT experienced over the last 3 years had to do with the players that she brought in. While I completely admire the quality and character of the young ladies who are Sun Devils she consistently had small guards and since Sophie Brunner and that crew left we've really not had a strong front court. CTT did however have expertise in filling that front court through the transfer portal with transfers Tapley (Southern Cal) and Giles(Rutgers) in recent years.

 

[nickp91]

Really great start to the hiring cycle for Black head coaches

 

[HuskyMJ]

It was my reaction entirely. CTT had recruited heavily in the Midwest, Texas, the Pacific Northwest and Canada. Recently international players appeared on the roster.

The question becomes can Coach Adair entice athletes from the Northwest to come out to Arizona.

I'm not sure if I would support your reading of her record however.

She took over a College of Charleston team that had gone 7 and 23 and immediately turned the program around to 16 and 16 followed by another successful season before moving on.

Moving on to Georgetown she took a 4 win team to consecutive nine and nine conference records and winning records.

So she has demonstrated expertise in coming in to troubled programs and turning them around. Her last two years at Delaware were outstanding.

She was only at CofC for 2 years so its such a short time period not enough to bring in your own recruits, Its different to win in this situation. I think of Amanda Buter at Clemson who won in her 1st year but has been pretty bad since, she probably inherited better talent than expected but just replaced a bad coach. Adair was an assistant at Georgetown so she didn't really fix everything if anything you could say she shared in some of the struggles whether recruiting or coaching. I don't think you leave after year 3 for a single bid league unless you are worried you wont get extended.

I share the recruiting concerns I just think this is not a great fit. Syracuse, West Virginia I could see it.

 

[azfan]

She was only at CofC for 2 years so its such a short time period not enough to bring in your own recruits, Its different to win in this situation. I think of Amanda Buter at Clemson who won in her 1st year but has been pretty bad since, she probably inherited better talent than expected but just replaced a bad coach. Adair was an assistant at Georgetown so she didn't really fix everything if anything you could say she shared in some of the struggles whether recruiting or coaching. I don't think you leave after year 3 for a single bid league unless you are worried you wont get extended.

I share the recruiting concerns I just think this is not a great fit. Syracuse, West Virginia I could see it.

She was head coach at Georgetown 2014-2017, going 4-27, 16-14, 17-13 before going to Delaware, last 2 seasons VERY successful. Georgetown wins 16:19 games in the two years after Adair left presumably with some of her recruits. Since then Georgetown has been a dumpster fire so I would be surprised if there was any danger she was going to lose her job in 2017. May very well have been she was perceptive about the future of the program there due to issues beyond her control.

Interesting observation about her move from Georgetown where she was clearly making progress to Delaware. That move really worked out for her however looking at the last 2 years at Delaware and now her move up to the Pac12. So from her point of view excellent career progression.

That said, I appreciate your comment about fit. Interesting that she moves over to the West after an entire career in the East. Very curious about her ability as I said before to recruit. ASU is not a rebuilt like Georgetown but definitely needs reversal of an historic trend.