Article from Goodman | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Article from Goodman

I think this is just noise and giving writers something to print. Even if its Goodman we are not forgotten and still on the college basketball landscape.

We are insiders but to outsiders its evident something ain't right or going the right way. If those people knew what we know and familiar with our history they would understand that we are in a state of reloading. That includes players and coaches.

Ollie will prove them (and some Yarders) wrong when the team gets healthy. Until 'next year' we just have to hope the noise stays as a whisper and doesn't get louder to the point of distraction.

Jalen, AG, Larrier and a healthy and experienced Durham can hang with any team in the country. Enoch and VJ are not that far behind. The freshman we have and the experience and hardship/pressure they are playing under, will be 'juniors' next year. I mean VJ and Vital would not have seen a fraction of the playing time they are getting now. Even Enoch is getting more floor time. This is not insignificant in the big picture.

I don't know about you but with that in mind I am patiently appreciating how the young guns are getting valuable minutes game in and game out.

So let the outsiders write what they want, these articles will be disappearing in a couple of years if not sooner.
 
Not sure if this is the right spot to drop this, but something I found in the fallout from Goodman's article. True or not, it caught my attention.



 
lange10 said:
Firing Ollie is not the answer right now. However, he or Benedict needs to realize he needs help on the bench. Time for a change. If that doesn't help, then we question Ollie. But fire him and I don't even want to begin to imagine the impact that has on recruiting. AAC is certainly a factor but Ollie has overcome that obstacle with flying colors.
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Unlike in football where we're a doormat at the moment and couldn't attract top coaches for our head coaching job, our men's basketball job is still one of the ten best in the country. We'd have no problem getting a top coach here and recruiting would take care of itself. I'm not worried about that. I'm more worried about what's going on now: Bringing in better talent than JC did and not making the NCAA tourney more often than not. That's on KO.
 
If Enoch is a backup as I have been reading then who are our big men next season? Who are our big strong (not stick figures) rebounding big men? We've had and still have a problem. Larrier is a small forward. Guard wise I think we are OK though with Gilbert and Adams as long as they're healthy.
 
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Matrim55 said:
Disagree, but feel that's not an unreasonable take.


Disagree and it's an unreasonable take. Facey was a fringe top 100 player, and the only reason Brimah has had NBA interest is because of UConn. If he was at USF or something you'd never hear his name mentioned.

And you're mischaracterizing Adams. He was a combo guard/shooting guard in high school & AAU who never played as the primary PG on ANY team until Gilbert got injured this year. That is a hard transition to make -- Westbrook, for example, couldn't make it over two college seasons with any grace, and neither did Kemba. Neither did Terry Rozier. Neither did a whole host of combo guards who we only remember for their stellar final college seasons (and subsequent NBA careers to one extent or another) after they made the transition to fulltime PG.

Here is the bottom line with the Ollie era:
  • Recruiting was hamstrung from 2012-2015, with 2016 being our first "complete" class
  • We have lost our best player after each of the last three seasons (Bazz, Boat, DHam)
  • We lost our THREE best players from last season
  • We have not had a true PG since Bazz left, though Adams is very much on the verge
  • We have been ravaged by injuries this year
  • We have one upperclassman in the backcourt, and he is one of the most frustrating in UConn history
  • Our upperclassmen project bigs have developed into serviceable players, but nothing more than that
  • Recruiting has improved each season in spite of some big misses
Results-wise, this year is the bottom. In terms of stabilizing the program for the long haul, the bottom was the 2014 recruiting class and it's been steadily upward since then. Just have to have some patience and perspective.
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I admittedly mischaracterized Facey as a top 50 recruit, but labeling him a "fringe" 100 recruit is probably steering things too far back the other way. He was relatively low on ESPN, but he was NYC POY and the consensus was that he was a legitimate four star prospect. Looking on rivals, he was 66th, and virtually every player ranked in that same vicinity who played for a reputable coach - Bronson Koenig, Kris Jenkins, Frank Mason, Josh Hart, Kennedy Meeks, V.J. Beachem, Nate Britt, Steve Vasturia, etc. - are currently playing big roles on top teams. That kid should be better by this point, especially considering how much promise he showed early in his sophomore year.

Adams, I think I characterized fairly. By no means am I under the illusion that he is a pure point, but he was recruited here to be a lead guard and actually, is well on his way to being an all-American type player. He's the least of our problems, just like I thought Bazz - despite the teams struggles - was the least of our problems in 2012. No complaints here. This kid is going to be the next great Husky.

There are plenty of places to cut Ollie slack. Nobody could have foreseen Omar's career being derailed by health problems in the manner that it was. Nobody could have expected the team to contend nationally in '15 with Cassell, Samuel, and Nolan playing big minutes. Some of the misses on the trail - Jordan Bell, Tyler Dorsey, Larrier the first time around, Briscoe, Stone, etc. - were purely random and there was probably nothing that could have been done to prevent them.

That in mind, the '14 recruiting class that brought in two five stars - Hamilton and Purvis - is only the disaster it is now in hindsight because neither of those guys made the impact that we hoped they would. Hell, Phil Nolan was a fairly coveted, albeit modest prospect who was the same player as a sophomore as he was as a senior. That has to fall on Ollie. Brimah is virtually an identical case study, though he has improved in some areas. The 2015 team started Boatright, Purvis, Hamilton, Facey, and Brimah and brought plenty of experienced, winning players off the bench. To not reach .500 in a league like the AAC is difficult to rationalize.

This year, you lost two games to low-majors with a full team. Then you got blown off the court by an ordinary Oklahoma State team before Larrier went down. Then you around with a team like Auburn, who, theoretically, should be way further behind in the building process. The injuries suck, but they could have been overcome if our seniors developed like they should have. It's too early to give up on Enoch, but he's half way through his sophomore year now and he's still a huge project. Jackson and Vital are freshman, but freshman who would have been capable of playing a role on a veteran-laden team.

He has routinely been handled by guys like Dunphy who take those same three star guys that we consider reaches and turn them into good players.

Please understand, though, that I'm using a high bar here. I didn't expect him to reach that bar by this point, and nobody should. That he is behind great, veteran coaches is kind of natural. Comparing him to other young coaches like Smart, Hurley, Pastner, etc., he is clearly ahead. It would be a big mistake to think that this isn't a process.
 
This guy is a complete tool.....only we can criticize KO....go crawl back under your rock and eat you know what Goodman!

Jeff GoodmanVerified account‏@GoodmanESPN
UConn fans: I like Kevin Ollie a lot. Everyone likes KO. Bottom line is program hasn't been all that national relevant last 2-plus years.
 
Good news, Benedict has a short list of CT program builders to contact if needed.
 
aceboon said:
I'm not referencing anyone saying it in this thread, but it is being posted on this board and most especially twitter/social media, Goodman is certainly aware of the latter and it helped spawn his article.
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Well, when you say "ya'll" twice in response to a thread, certainly feels as if you are addressing those in that thread.
 
Benedict made an interesting point at the Edsall press conference today. Fan attendance is an important measurement of a coach's success. Our conference and the less sexy opponents we play has played a part in our declining attendance but so has the team's regular season performance since 2010 and the WTF losses we've had this season.
 
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Chief00 said:
He did not inherit a mess from Calhoun - look at who recruited the stars of the 2014 team.
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Amen. The"mess" (that has now taken on mythical proposition on a biblical level), includes a national championship one year removed; a final four appearance and #1 seed in 2009 and the ingredients for a 2014 national championship. Oh the humanity.
 
Pretty sure most coaches would love to be so "hamstrung." Sure, we had a smaller margin for error, but give me a freaking break that Ollie is beyond criticism (or, strangely, worse, that he saved UConn basketball - not my words). Believe it or not, I like Kevin. I've known him a long, long time. But he's stubborn and self confident - beyond reality (which served him well as a player).
 
Sonova said:
Amen. The"mess" (that has now taken on mythical proposition on a biblical level), includes a national championship one year removed; a final four appearance and #1 seed in 2009 and the ingredients for a 2014 national championship. Oh the humanity.
Expand ...
what does 2009 have to do with Ollie?

The penalties currently being served by the Men's Basketball program include the suspension of the head coach for three conference games during the 2011-12 season, scholarship reductions for three academic years, recruiting restrictions, permanent disassociation of a booster and three years' probation (until February 21, 2014).

The verdict means UConn is ineligible not only for the 2013 Big East tournament, but also the NCAA tournament. Yes, really. This action isn't unprecedented -- the NCAA brought the hammer on SWAC schools last year -- but it has never been implemented on a program as powerful as Connecticut's until now.


UConn is willing to impose these penalties on itself because the basketball program would probably feel long-term competitive effects from tournament ineligibility. It might have already hurt the Huskies on the recruiting front. Anthony Bennett, a top-rated power forward in Nevada, excluded UConn from his list of schools. He told The Courant in January that the potential of tournament ineligibility in 2013 was "kind of a factor" in that decision. UConn men's basketball: UConn Proposes Own Penalties To NCAA Over APR Failures


Smith is the latest player to leave UConn after the Huskies received a 2013 postseason ban for low Academic Progress Rate scores. Because UConn is ineligible, Smith could play for the Rebels this season, though Rice could not confirm that Friday....Alex Oriakhi earlier announced he is transferring to Missouri for his senior season. Michael Bradley is transferring to Western Kentucky.


little bit of a mess he inherited... he had to reach for guys like evans, lubin, even facey and brimah... you can see his inexperience there... the guy never coached a team before in his life... the program was dragged through the mud from '09 on with bad publicity from the media just to take shots at the program. Ollie had to deal with negative media coverage of the program as well and constant rumors of him leaving the program for the nba
 
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Matrim55 said:
Nah it's a crap article specifically because of this sentence-and-a-half:

Ollie's issue has not been on the recruiting trail. UConn has been able to bring in heralded players. He landed Daniel Hamilton (No. 30 in ESPN 100) in the Class of 2014, Adams (No. 25) in the Class of 2015...

Our current predicament is actually a direct result of KO's struggles on the recruiting trail from 2012-15, which is a direct result of the sanctions that program was under. As a result we were able to consistently lock down our No. 1 target, but had classes that were otherwise thin (2015), bereft of talent behind that No. 1 guy (2014), or comprised almost entirely of projects (2013).

When you recruit like that for 3 or 4 straight years, and you compound it with some catastrophic injuries, you end up with a season like this one. Add in two guys going pro a year too early for us (DeAndre & DHam), and you have the perfect storm.

Any article that tries to give the story of Ollie's tenure without that context is garbage. Any assessment of what it means for the future without looking at the fact that each recruiting class has been better than the one before it is also garbage.
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My other issue with the article was how he threw away KO's first season: they were banned, so who cares.

The fact that KO coached that team to 20 wins -- despite defections and no light at the end of the tunnel -- was a very impressive feat, Sloth.*

*Goodman looks like Sloth. ROCKY ROAD!
 
Hi-Low said:
This guy is a complete tool.....only we can criticize KO....go crawl back under your rock and eat you know what Goodman!

Jeff GoodmanVerified account‏@GoodmanESPN
UConn fans: I like Kevin Ollie a lot. Everyone likes KO. Bottom line is program hasn't been all that national relevant last 2-plus years.
Expand ...

Goodman is a tool, but it's hard to disagree with his assessment of KO and the state of the program over the last 2+ years.
 
Sonova said:
Pretty sure most coaches would love to be so "hamstrung." Sure, we had a smaller margin for error, but give me a freaking break that Ollie is beyond criticism (or, strangely, worse, that he saved UConn basketball - not my words). Believe it or not, I like Kevin. I've known him a long, long time. But he's stubborn and self confident - beyond reality (which served him well as a player).
Expand ...

Lots of straw men being whacked around in this thread. Who, pray tell, has announced that KO is beyond criticism? Context is always important; that's what people are saying.

I have to say that you seem to have joined this board six weeks ago for the sole purpose of creating and/or stoking negative energy. Prove me wrong.
 
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UCweCONN said:
Benedict made an interesting point at the Edsall press conference today. Fan attendance is an important measurement of a coach's success. Our conference and the less sexy opponents we play has played a part in our declining attendance but so has the team's regular season performance since 2010 and the WTF losses we've had this season.
Expand ...

So the 11,500 who showed up at 3pm on a workday... ? is bad?
 
aceboon said:
Do folks not realize KO's first year post NC was setup to be a letdown? .... Ya'll are lobbying for KO to be fired after this year? Good grief some of ya'll are crazy.
Expand ...

Surely, surely you already know this.

As to the rest, spot on. I've been saying the same for a while--not trying to be a know it all here, Just pointing out that some people refuse to hear explanations excuses.
 
Matrim55 said:
Disagree, but feel that's not an unreasonable take.


Disagree and it's an unreasonable take. Facey was a fringe top 100 player, and the only reason Brimah has had NBA interest is because of UConn. If he was at USF or something you'd never hear his name mentioned.

And you're mischaracterizing Adams. He was a combo guard/shooting guard in high school & AAU who never played as the primary PG on ANY team until Gilbert got injured this year. That is a hard transition to make -- Westbrook, for example, couldn't make it over two college seasons with any grace, and neither did Kemba. Neither did Terry Rozier. Neither did a whole host of combo guards who we only remember for their stellar final college seasons (and subsequent NBA careers to one extent or another) after they made the transition to fulltime PG.

Here is the bottom line with the Ollie era:
  • Recruiting was hamstrung from 2012-2015, with 2016 being our first "complete" class
  • We have lost our best player after each of the last three seasons (Bazz, Boat, DHam)
  • We lost our THREE best players from last season
  • We have not had a true PG since Bazz left, though Adams is very much on the verge
  • We have been ravaged by injuries this year
  • We have one upperclassman in the backcourt, and he is one of the most frustrating in UConn history
  • Our upperclassmen project bigs have developed into serviceable players, but nothing more than that
  • Recruiting has improved each season in spite of some big misses
Results-wise, this year is the bottom. In terms of stabilizing the program for the long haul, the bottom was the 2014 recruiting class and it's been steadily upward since then. Just have to have some patience and perspective.
Expand ...

Slam dunk. Dawkins stylee
 
champs99and04 said:
Don't think I agree with this. Recruiting could have been better, but development has been the biggest problem. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you.
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Development is a problem because the guys being developed dont have the ceiling you and many think they have. I mean seriously, do you think Enoch,Facey and Brimah have the talent to be all conference or even all american type players? You may say they dont have to be but how much better than would they be? How many minutes do you think those three would see on some of the powerhouse teams we`ve had in the past? The problem is lack of talent not development.
 
Matrim55 said:
Here is the bottom line with the Ollie era:
  • Recruiting was hamstrung from 2012-2015, with 2016 being our first "complete" class
  • We have lost our best player after each of the last three seasons (Bazz, Boat, DHam)
  • We lost our THREE best players from last season
  • We have not had a true PG since Bazz left, though Adams is very much on the verge
  • We have been ravaged by injuries this year
  • We have one upperclassman in the backcourt, and he is one of the most frustrating in UConn history
  • Our upperclassmen project bigs have developed into serviceable players, but nothing more than that
  • Recruiting has improved each season in spite of some big misses
Results-wise, this year is the bottom. In terms of stabilizing the program for the long haul, the bottom was the 2014 recruiting class and it's been steadily upward since then. Just have to have some patience and perspective.
Expand ...

This pretty much sums it up. I have ZERO DOUBT about Ollie being our coach. This season is a result of all the bs we went through in the last few years. I guess many of us thought that winning a national title and sticking it to Emmert was the only effect the program would have from that time period. Nope! We`re paying the piper this season big time. I have no doubt this program will be back and do so with a vengeance very soon and by soon i mean starting next season. With what we have coming back,coming in and whos leaving this program should be on the upswing. Lets enjoy rock bottom become it wont last long and we`re likely not to see a season like this again for a very,very long time. I have NO DOUBT.
 
champs99and04 said:
Please understand, though, that I'm using a high bar here. I didn't expect him to reach that bar by this point, and nobody should. That he is behind great, veteran coaches is kind of natural. Comparing him to other young coaches like Smart, Hurley, Pastner, etc., he is clearly ahead. It would be a big mistake to think that this isn't a process.
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This is the perspective we want. This is the perspective we need.

KO is not remotely a finished product. There isn't one out there for UCONN.
 
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champs99and04 said:
I admittedly mischaracterized Facey as a top 50 recruit, but labeling him a "fringe" 100 recruit is probably steering things too far back the other way. He was relatively low on ESPN, but he was NYC POY and the consensus was that he was a legitimate four star prospect. Looking on rivals, he was 66th, and virtually every player ranked in that same vicinity who played for a reputable coach - Bronson Koenig, Kris Jenkins, Frank Mason, Josh Hart, Kennedy Meeks, V.J. Beachem, Nate Britt, Steve Vasturia, etc. - are currently playing big roles on top teams. That kid should be better by this point, especially considering how much promise he showed early in his sophomore year.

Adams, I think I characterized fairly. By no means am I under the illusion that he is a pure point, but he was recruited here to be a lead guard and actually, is well on his way to being an all-American type player. He's the least of our problems, just like I thought Bazz - despite the teams struggles - was the least of our problems in 2012. No complaints here. This kid is going to be the next great Husky.

There are plenty of places to cut Ollie slack. Nobody could have foreseen Omar's career being derailed by health problems in the manner that it was. Nobody could have expected the team to contend nationally in '15 with Cassell, Samuel, and Nolan playing big minutes. Some of the misses on the trail - Jordan Bell, Tyler Dorsey, Larrier the first time around, Briscoe, Stone, etc. - were purely random and there was probably nothing that could have been done to prevent them.

That in mind, the '14 recruiting class that brought in two five stars - Hamilton and Purvis - is only the disaster it is now in hindsight because neither of those guys made the impact that we hoped they would. Hell, Phil Nolan was a fairly coveted, albeit modest prospect who was the same player as a sophomore as he was as a senior. That has to fall on Ollie. Brimah is virtually an identical case study, though he has improved in some areas. The 2015 team started Boatright, Purvis, Hamilton, Facey, and Brimah and brought plenty of experienced, winning players off the bench. To not reach .500 in a league like the AAC is difficult to rationalize.

This year, you lost two games to low-majors with a full team. Then you got blown off the court by an ordinary Oklahoma State team before Larrier went down. Then you around with a team like Auburn, who, theoretically, should be way further behind in the building process. The injuries suck, but they could have been overcome if our seniors developed like they should have. It's too early to give up on Enoch, but he's half way through his sophomore year now and he's still a huge project. Jackson and Vital are freshman, but freshman who would have been capable of playing a role on a veteran-laden team.

He has routinely been handled by guys like Dunphy who take those same three star guys that we consider reaches and turn them into good players.

Please understand, though, that I'm using a high bar here. I didn't expect him to reach that bar by this point, and nobody should. That he is behind great, veteran coaches is kind of natural. Comparing him to other young coaches like Smart, Hurley, Pastner, etc., he is clearly ahead. It would be a big mistake to think that this isn't a process.
Expand ...
speaking of shaka, im still waiting for a goodman article on him. also does he run an offense?
 
champs99and04 said:
Hell, Phil Nolan was a fairly coveted, albeit modest prospect who was the same player as a sophomore as he was as a senior. That has to fall on Ollie.
Expand ...

You lost me here. Phil Nolan coveted? He was in nobody's top 100, and UConn was by far his best offer.

Please understand, though, that I'm using a high bar here. I didn't expect him to reach that bar by this point, and nobody should. That he is behind great, veteran coaches is kind of natural. Comparing him to other young coaches like Smart, Hurley, Pastner, etc., he is clearly ahead. It would be a big mistake to think that this isn't a process.
Expand ...

This is right. He's one of the best young coaches and he'll become one of the best coaches, period, as he matures. I think part of his development will be building up a coaching staff that is top-quality and complements him -- and we've already seen some evolution that way with the hiring of Killings. Another part of it will be settling on his own coaching style -- he has pulled a lot from Jim Calhoun, but we also see deference to assistants as in the Glen Miller zone defenses that Chief derides -- and some aspects he seems to want but hasn't been willing or able to fully commit to -- e.g. playing up-tempo and getting more fast-break baskets. Above all, recruiting has to be coordinated with style of play so that you the players match the style, and then you have to recruit well enough that you have five to seven top players filling five complementary roles.

It's hard to bring all those things together at the same time until you've become an outstanding coach and been an outstanding coach for at least one full recruitment and player maturation cycle (5-6 years from start of recruitment to senior year). I think Ollie may be rounding into that outstanding coach capability right now, but it may take 5-6 years before that is visible to casual fans and the likes of Goodman.
 
I'm not really sure his point? He lists a bunch of other coaches who have earned their "get out of jail free card" but you could argue are in the same spot if not worse than Ollie.

Boeheim has been a consistent under achiever outside a few years, seems like the Cuse fans want him out. Yet why isnt goodman writing an article about that? Considering we have 4-5 players out for Medical Reasons.

Roy Williams has his team under the NCAA microscope and hasnt won a title since 09', I know they went to the Championship game last year but is a guy who refuses to take the blame for UNC's violations not someone who should draw some heat?
 
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