aresco starting to look like a sheep in wolves clothing...

[UConnDan97]

You're a weird guy, Marty. I included your quote that I was commenting on, so there should be no confusion on your part. You said, and I quote you again, "my issue with him is the failure to see the failure of the hybrid model..."

What I'm saying to you, and apparently you didn't follow, was that he was HIRED by the hybrid model. He didn't invent the damned thing! That was what his constituency was made up of when he came on board, period. If you want to blame anyone for that setup, blame past commissioners, not the one that was brought in to figure out how to sell this Frankenstein to the tv networks.

If you want to bitch about Tulane and ECU, go right ahead. But they have nothing to do with the hybrid model at all. Those were football/tv driven, not basketball driven...

 

[ZooCougar]

You can't plan anything in this environment. At this point, how do we even know how many OOC opponent we need to schedule in 2014. Some of those teams may be in the same conference as us by then!

Not sure what else Aresco can do. Every time things seem stable they actually aren't.

I think UConn is just riding this thing out. WTF else can we do?

 

[junglehusky]

You can't plan anything in this environment. At this point, how do we even know how many OOC opponent we need to schedule in 2014. Some of those teams may be in the same conference as us by then!

Not sure what else Aresco can do. Every time things seem stable they actually aren't.

I think UConn is just riding this thing out. WTF else can we do?

#ridethebomb

 

[Marty Jackson]

You're a weird guy, Marty. I included your quote that I was commenting on, so there should be no confusion on your part. You said, and I quote you again, "my issue with him is the failure to see the failure of the hybrid model..."

What I'm saying to you, and apparently you didn't follow, was that he was HIRED by the hybrid model. He didn't invent the damned thing! That was what his constituency was made up of when he came on board, period. If you want to blame anyone for that setup, blame past commissioners, not the one that was brought in to figure out how to sell this Frankenstein to the tv networks.

If you want to bitch about Tulane and ECU, go right ahead. But they have nothing to do with the hybrid model at all. Those were football/tv driven, not basketball driven...

he was hired by the hybrid model? the one that 7 schools just left because of the multiple agendas? the one where the western schools are hunting for conferences to park their olympic sports? he doesnt have to continue with this model...

tulane is all sports while ecu is football only. does it get any more obvious.

gtown, nova, and marq are out for bb. but tulane is in?
meanwhile sdsu and unlv are parking their bb programs elsewhere. makes zero sense.

as a bb school, uconn is screwed with the current lineup in the be.

 

[Marty Jackson]

the hybrid model is dead. everyone sees it but aresco.

 

[UConnDan97]

he was hired by the hybrid model?

Yes. He was. I'm glad I could clear that up for you, since I think you are the only one on the forum left who didn't know that he was hired by a conference with an olympic-only sports split. You're welcome...

the hybrid model is dead. everyone sees it but aresco.

Everyone sees it but Aresco? I'm pretty sure that I read reports that he is asking ECU to bring all sports to the Big East in response to the C-7 departure. So....yeah, he's not a big fan of the model either. Again, until the C-7 split away, that was what he was working with (which you should have known by now). And the real reason why Boise and SDSU are not in the olympic side is because only a f$#king idiot of an AD would put their olympic sports in an all-American conference in order to fly their volleyball team to Orlando. Until there are enough western teams to make a true 7 or 8 team division for all sports, it is not going to happen, NOR SHOULD IT HAPPEN! And it has nothing to do with Aresco...

 

[AZHuskiePop]

After watching some Bowl games the NBE actually is a pretty good football conference.
That conference can offer some good entertainment. The problem is its too good.
Actually football as currently constructed will be as good as the ACC if not better.
Basketball won't be bad either .
Forget Tulane its a great place for the championship game.
Unless there is a killer conference TV package and so far unseen loyalty it will never be allowed to take place.
The powers who control football will never allow this conference off the ground.

It was behind the SC7 BB exit. The MW renog.
They are afraid of competitition. Its like being an upstart family in the Mafia it simply can't be allowed.
They can tolerate some small regional conferences but not a national one. Its really gotten to be an ugly business.

 

[zls44]

After watching some Bowl games the NBE actually is a pretty good football conference.
That conference can offer some good entertainment. The problem is its too good.

Yes.
That's it.
That's exactly it.

 

[ZooCougar]

The championship game needs to played in one of the participants stadiums.

 

[Marty Jackson]

Yes. He was. I'm glad I could clear that up for you, since I think you are the only one on the forum left who didn't know that he was hired by a conference with an olympic-only sports split. You're welcome...




Everyone sees it but Aresco? I'm pretty sure that I read reports that he is asking ECU to bring all sports to the Big East in response to the C-7 departure. So....yeah, he's not a big fan of the model either. Again, until the C-7 split away, that was what he was working with (which you should have known by now). And the real reason why Boise and SDSU are not in the olympic side is because only a f$#king idiot of an AD would put their olympic sports in an all-American conference in order to fly their volleyball team to Orlando. Until there are enough western teams to make a true 7 or 8 team division for all sports, it is not going to happen, NOR SHOULD IT HAPPEN! And it has nothing to do with Aresco...

Not sure where the hangup is..
I think the obvious answer is an east west split with 16 teams. Aresco is going around offering fb only membership.

 

[The Funster]

After watching some Bowl games the NBE actually is a pretty good football conference.
That conference can offer some good entertainment. The problem is its too good.
Actually football as currently constructed will be as good as the ACC if not better.
Basketball won't be bad either .
Forget Tulane its a great place for the championship game.
Unless there is a killer conference TV package and so far unseen loyalty it will never be allowed to take place.
The powers who control football will never allow this conference off the ground.

It was behind the SC7 BB exit. The MW renog.
They are afraid of competitition. Its like being an upstart family in the Mafia it simply can't be allowed.
They can tolerate some small regional conferences but not a national one. Its really gotten to be an ugly business.

I'm not a fan of litigation but IF this were happening, IF the other conferences and networks were conspiring to quell the formation of a new national conference then there has to be some legal thing...collusion, restraint of trade...that is ocurring. How that can be proven or how one goes about uncovering it would likely be extremely difficult and would likely require the cooperation of some of the involved parties.

 

[UConnDan97]

Not sure where the hangup is..
I think the obvious answer is an east west split with 16 teams. Aresco is going around offering fb only membership.

The hangup is your lack of understanding of the timelines. Aresco offered a football only membership BEFORE the C-7 left, not after. Once the C-7 left, he has already been rumored to be in talks to add ECU fully, as well as asking Fresno, UNLV, and BYU in order to make the full western division. In other words, he is doing exactly what you would want him to do, in a period where he is finally allowed to do it. If you think that he could have done this before the departure of the C-7, you're kidding yourself...

 

[HuskyHawk]

The hangup is your lack of understanding of the timelines. Aresco offered a football only membership BEFORE the C-7 left, not after. Once the C-7 left, he has already been rumored to be in talks to add ECU fully, as well as asking Fresno, UNLV, and BYU in order to make the full western division. In other words, he is doing exactly what you would want him to do, in a period where he is finally allowed to do it. If you think that he could have done this before the departure of the C-7, you're kidding yourself...

I agree with this. I'll put forth two realities as I see them. (1) conferences with either football only or olympic only members are doomed to fail and (2) conferences with no cohesive identity or geographic logic are doomed to be second tier conferences at best, and will most likely collapse or split.

Why on earth are we trying to build a 16 team conference when there aren't 16 good programs available? So we can have a confernece championship game that nobody will attend or watch? Please. Salvage what we can now. Make sure SMU is still with us. Dump Tulane if needed and replace with Tulsa. Create a ten team league with Dallas as the western edge. Bring ECU all in.

East: USF, UCF, ECU, UConn, Temple
Midwest: SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, Cinci

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree with this. I'll put forth two realities as I see them. (1) conferences with either football only or olympic only members are doomed to fail and (2) conferences with no cohesive identity or geographic logic are doomed to be second tier conferences at best, and will most likely collapse or split.

Why on earth are we trying to build a 16 team conference when there aren't 16 good programs available? So we can have a confernece championship game that nobody will attend or watch? Please. Salvage what we can now. Make sure SMU is still with us. Dump Tulane if needed and replace with Tulsa. Create a ten team league with Dallas as the western edge. Bring ECU all in.

East: USF, UCF, ECU, UConn, Temple
Midwest: SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, Cinci

You said you agreed with me, and then presented me with two five-team divisions???

What I'm saying is that we are trying to become a 16 team conference, with two fully functioning 8 team divisions. That's where Fresno, UNLV, and BYU come into play. I understand that you are trying to lose the dead-weight better known as Tulane (I really really really wish we could, without forfeiting Big East credits and money!). But your scenario essentially removes them and at least four bowl teams (assuming we could land them all - Boise, SDSU, Fresno, BYU) for one bowl team (Tulsa) and the removal of the Tulane tumor.

If football is what truly drives the bus (and it is), then we cannot forsake the acquisition of Boise. Period.

 

[HuskyHawk]

You said you agreed with me, and then presented me with two five-team divisions???

What I'm saying is that we are trying to become a 16 team conference, with two fully functioning 8 team divisions. That's where Fresno, UNLV, and BYU come into play. I understand that you are trying to lose the dead-weight better known as Tulane (I really really really wish we could, without forfeiting Big East credits and money!). But your scenario essentially removes them and at least four bowl teams (assuming we could land them all - Boise, SDSU, Fresno, BYU) for one bowl team (Tulsa) and the removal of the Tulane tumor.

If football is what truly drives the bus (and it is), then we cannot forsake the acquisition of Boise. Period.

I agree with you about Aresco, which is the point you were making. I don't think the two 8 team divisions ever come together. It's possible, but I doubt it.

 

[UConnDan97]

I agree with you about Aresco, which is the point you were making. I don't think the two 8 team divisions ever come together. It's possible, but I doubt it.

They have to try, at the very least. BYU is going to obviously be the toughest one to acquire, due to their tv channel ambitions. But certainly we could grab Fresno, win the Big East - Mountain West war immediately, get a tv contract, and then pitch the idea to BYU that their bowl access and playoff aspirations would ONLY be served if they joined us (otherwise, they need to finish in the top 4 every year as an independent....good luck with that...). But consider if all the teams join, the conference would look like:

East: UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, UCF, USF, ECU, Navy (not sure how we'll convince them for all-sports, but we'll see)
West: Boise State, SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, BYU, SMU, Houston, Tulane (ughh!)

- From a football standpoint, that's a pretty nice conference, even with the Tulane tumor. There are nine current bowl teams in there, if I did the math right.
- From a basketball standpoint, they both have talent, although the East is clearly the breadwinner.
- The conference champion in football will be well respected nationally, I believe, and should play in the "big bowl" every year out of the lower five conferences.
- The western teams will no longer have to house their olympics in the badlands better known as the Big West.
- The tv contract for this league would likely be pretty good (i.e., somewhere between 4 and 10 million, probably closer to 10 with the additions of BYU, UNLV, Fresno)
- The NCAA credit money, exit fee money, and auto bids will still be protected under the Big East banner.

Let's hope that it can get done somehow, so that the future of UConn is secured regardless of the timing of any future realignment...

 

[Marty Jackson]

The hangup is your lack of understanding of the timelines. Aresco offered a football only membership BEFORE the C-7 left, not after. Once the C-7 left, he has already been rumored to be in talks to add ECU fully, as well as asking Fresno, UNLV, and BYU in order to make the full western division. In other words, he is doing exactly what you would want him to do, in a period where he is finally allowed to do it. If you think that he could have done this before the departure of the C-7, you're kidding yourself...

you are making up this issue... im not confused by the timing.
ecu was added after the c7 left.
my issue with tulane and ecu are two-fold. wrong schools, as there are better options, and ecu was fb only. how can you argue this? aresco wants a national fb conference and an eastern all sport conference.

after the c7 left, there was an article which mentioned that aresco was talking to fresno and unlv for fb only... i read that as aresco is looking for fb only adds.

that's why i posted this thread. aresco is still looking for fb only schools out west when the mwc has improved its position and can offer all sports.

 

[Marty Jackson]

I agree with this. I'll put forth two realities as I see them. (1) conferences with either football only or olympic only members are doomed to fail and (2) conferences with no cohesive identity or geographic logic are doomed to be second tier conferences at best, and will most likely collapse or split.

Why on earth are we trying to build a 16 team conference when there aren't 16 good programs available? So we can have a confernece championship game that nobody will attend or watch? Please. Salvage what we can now. Make sure SMU is still with us. Dump Tulane if needed and replace with Tulsa. Create a ten team league with Dallas as the western edge. Bring ECU all in.

East: USF, UCF, ECU, UConn, Temple
Midwest: SMU, Houston, Memphis, Tulsa, Cinci

so you're dumping tulane, boise, and sdsu?

unfortunately, tulane and ecu are in so that decision is already made (also why i point out that uconn should be working on a new league which isnt already saddled with dead weights)... boise and sdsu are still in.

so why not add unlv and fresno for all sports. if you can get byu thats a solid group. add and navy (maybe g'town as the all sport option to go with navy)... assuming navy still joins.

good fb, good bb, east/west with geographic balance to minimize travel.

whats the issue here?

 

[UConnDan97]

you are making up this issue... im not confused by the timing.
ecu was added after the c7 left.
my issue with tulane and ecu are two-fold. wrong schools, as there are better options, and ecu was fb only. how can you argue this? aresco wants a national fb conference and an eastern all sport conference.

after the c7 left, there was an article which mentioned that aresco was talking to fresno and unlv for fb only... i read that as aresco is looking for fb only adds.

that's why i posted this thread. aresco is still looking for fb only schools out west when the mwc has improved its position and can offer all sports.

First of all, you're the one making stuff up, Marty:

November 27, 2012: ECU, Tulane added
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/27/big-east-east-carolina/index.html

December 13, 2012: C-7 leaves Big East
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sports/ncaabasketball/returning-home-by-leaving-big-east.html?_r=0

Do you want to invent another ridiculous story like the one you just did about ECU and Tulane getting added after the C-7 left?

As for arguing for Tulane? Are you serious?!? Have you not seen even one of my thousand posts about how stupid the Tulane addition was?!? It just tells me that you aren't paying attention to anything I've written.

As for East Carolina being a "football only", again, you haven't paid attention to anything that I've written. I've said it before and I'll say it again that they were added as football only because the C-7 was STILL a part of the Big East (which I'm sure you'll now admit to). Now that the C-7 is departing, I would be shocked....SHOCKED....if ECU isn't added for all sports. I don't think that ECU will play one minute of Big East play as a football-only.

As for Fresno / UNLV / BYU football-only's: until we reach a critical mass of western teams, we CANNOT have them be full members. You do understand this, right? You do understand why it is utterly stupid to have a couple of all sports teams on an opposite coast of the rest of the league, right? Maybe you don't. At this point, I'm not sure why I care what you do or do not get, but at least get the story straight in terms of when things happened...

 

[Marty Jackson]

They have to try, at the very least. BYU is going to obviously be the toughest one to acquire, due to their tv channel ambitions. But certainly we could grab Fresno, win the Big East - Mountain West war immediately, get a tv contract, and then pitch the idea to BYU that their bowl access and playoff aspirations would ONLY be served if they joined us (otherwise, they need to finish in the top 4 every year as an independent....good luck with that...). But consider if all the teams join, the conference would look like:

East: UConn, Cincy, Temple, Memphis, UCF, USF, ECU, Navy (not sure how we'll convince them for all-sports, but we'll see)
West: Boise State, SDSU, Fresno State, UNLV, BYU, SMU, Houston, Tulane (ughh!)

- From a football standpoint, that's a pretty nice conference, even with the Tulane tumor. There are nine current bowl teams in there, if I did the math right.
- From a basketball standpoint, they both have talent, although the East is clearly the breadwinner.
- The conference champion in football will be well respected nationally, I believe, and should play in the "big bowl" every year out of the lower five conferences.
- The western teams will no longer have to house their olympics in the badlands better known as the Big West.
- The tv contract for this league would likely be pretty good (i.e., somewhere between 4 and 10 million, probably closer to 10 with the additions of BYU, UNLV, Fresno)
- The NCAA credit money, exit fee money, and auto bids will still be protected under the Big East banner.

Let's hope that it can get done somehow, so that the future of UConn is secured regardless of the timing of any future realignment...

we're saying the same thing except it is my understanding that aresco is going after unlv and fresno as fb only. if thats changed great.

the only difference from your line-up is that i think 18 teams would work better.
and tulsa could easily be added. tulsa could be in the east (not too bad for cincy and memphis)...

i think if the money is there, a bb only could be added to share the navy membership. gtown or nova would be ideal, but there are plenty of options. i don't see navy for all sports.

 

[UConnDan97]

we're saying the same thing except it is my understanding that aresco is going after unlv and fresno as fb only. if thats changed great.

the only difference from your line-up is that i think 18 teams would work better.
and tulsa could easily be added. tulsa could be in the east (not too bad for cincy and memphis)...

i think if the money is there, a bb only could be added to share the navy membership. gtown or nova would be ideal, but there are plenty of options. i don't see navy for all sports.

Okay, now we're getting on the same page.

To me, whether it's a 16 team vs. 18 team league is not as important as making sure that all of the additions add value to the overall product (and one could make the argument that all of the additions do add something, but God help me with Tulane). I also agree that getting Navy to add all sports will be extremely difficult, as they have said as much. Maybe with the C-7 leaving, they might feel more able to compete in the olympic sports, and maybe they'll change their minds. Since they aren't joining until 2015, we'll just wait and see how that shakes out.

For me, I'm just ready for 2013 to start. I want to get excited about league play again, and I want to get excited about the possibilities of playing against some of our new conference mates. It's been a tough time for quite some time...

 

[Marty Jackson]

First of all, you're the one making stuff up, Marty:

November 27, 2012: ECU, Tulane added
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/pete_thamel/11/27/big-east-east-carolina/index.html

December 13, 2012: C-7 leaves Big East
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/14/sports/ncaabasketball/returning-home-by-leaving-big-east.html?_r=0

Do you want to invent another ridiculous story like the one you just did about ECU and Tulane getting added after the C-7 left?

As for arguing for Tulane? Are you serious?!? Have you not seen even one of my thousand posts about how stupid the Tulane addition was?!? It just tells me that you aren't paying attention to anything I've written.

As for East Carolina being a "football only", again, you haven't paid attention to anything that I've written. I've said it before and I'll say it again that they were added as football only because the C-7 was STILL a part of the Big East (which I'm sure you'll now admit to). Now that the C-7 is departing, I would be shocked....SHOCKED....if ECU isn't added for all sports. I don't think that ECU will play one minute of Big East play as a football-only.

As for Fresno / UNLV / BYU football-only's: until we reach a critical mass of western teams, we CANNOT have them be full members. You do understand this, right? You do understand why it is utterly stupid to have a couple of all sports teams on an opposite coast of the rest of the league, right? Maybe you don't. At this point, I'm not sure why I care what you do or do not get, but at least get the story straight in terms of when things happened...

you are correct on ecu and tulane. i had uofl leaving confused with when the c7 left.

a. you can stop with the insults
b. your last post suggested we are saying the same thing except i think you can get tulsa and as well for 2 9 team divisions. so why are you suggesting how 'stupid' it is?
c. arguing about tulane and ecu? its a done deal. whats to argue?

 

[UConnDan97]

you are correct on ecu and tulane. i had uofl leaving confused with when the c7 left.

a. you can stop with the insults
b. your last post suggested we are saying the same thing except i think you can get tulsa and as well for 2 9 team divisions. so why are you suggesting how 'stupid' it is?
c. arguing about tulane and ecu? its a done deal. whats to argue?

a. Please let me know where I insulted you.
b. We're saying the same thing, now that you are saying what I'm saying. Before, you were saying that Aresco was doing the opposite of this.
c. You were the one that made the original comment that I was arguing for Tulane, which I wasn't. And I agree; it's already a done deal.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

this is the most pathetic position...
woe is me... boo hoo...

warde manual should resign. thats what he can do. it is clear his experience and skill set are not what is needed. he seems to have the same 'woe is me' attitude that you are exhibiting. nothing i can do but monitor the situation.

there are four solid anchor schools: cincy, uconn, byu, and boise.
wm should be reaching out to get these other 3 schools to see what it would take to form a new conference with those schools as anchors...

lets assume a 16 team league of the best remaining markets/programs (ie maximize tv contract)... if byu is in $100M is possible.
if the top 4 schools secure $10M/year each, that's $60M for the other 12 (approx. $5M for the rest)... maybe the tv contract is more or less, or maybe the split is more or less. those can be negotiated. but you get the gist.

if uconn could get $10-13M in a best of the rest, and keep tier 3 rights, that's on par with acc. and could be more stable.

aresco is loyal to the nbe, which he should be. my issue with him is the failure to see the shortcomings of the hybid model. reaching out to fresno and unlv as fb only is a failure.

unlv and sdsu are good bb programs. his continued push for fb only out west is pathetic. you accept tulane but not unlv or sdsu. now the west realizes it has some leverage. unfortunately, where tulane and ecu are added, then horse is out of the barn.

a 16 team, east/west league is what will work. all sports.

too late for the big east. it's a mess. but that's where aresco is focused.

and that's why wm is a failure as well. a good ad would create opportunities. not just wait.

there are 4 good schools with value. and none of them are working together to maximize their value.

Explain to me please how this is a "woe is me" attitude. You conveniently come up with conference models that are great hypotheticals but if expansion schools don't want to join what are you going to do? Hold your breath and stomp your feet? Geez why wouldn't some of these schools leap at the chance to join a football conference that's imploding with an as yet to be determined TV deal? Sounds like paradise. Hey why don't we just break down Delaneys door and demand entrance to the B1G? That's all you have to do, right.

All I said is they don't have any leverage. If you have leverage you can force a deal through. Otherwise, what are you going to do? Please explain to me what leverage the AD or the commish has? I don't have any issues with your proposals but I fail to see how they get done without the agreement of all interested parties. Please explain how this happens. Tell me how expansion schools can't possibly say no or why the ACC or B1G just cannot pass on adding UConn.

 

[Bootsthemonkey]

$$$ talks. That's why teams leave the BE for the ACC. That's why teams leave the ACC for the B1G. That's why you don't see anyone leaving the B1G or the SEC.