AP Poll Week 16 - UConn #21

[storrsroars]

And yet somehow slotted for 5 teams in a bracket I saw.

Wake snuck into Palm's bracket this weekend and both UNC and Wake crawled into Lundardi's. Prior to that it was MW 4, ACC 3.

 

[ecasadoSBU]

What makes you think the conference is disrespected year in and year out? There's many years that people thought the opposite, that the Big East was getting too much love in the tourney (at least when it came to how many teams made it in). Last year was probably the only anomaly, but that had more to do with COVID and the wacky disjointed season.

Yeah. Last year really sucked. The shortened OOC really hurt the Big East. I don't remember the Big East ever being in the running for only three bids in the history of the league (well maybe a long time ago in the 90s... who knows). Glad that Georgetown saved the league some face by pulling that BET run and stealing a 4th bid

 

[ecasadoSBU]

If you look at end of year rankings over last 6 years, with the exception of Nova and Xavier there seems to be very little representation compared to the other conferences. I think it is a minor thing, not a huge conspiracy. But Alabama with 10 losses and 2-6 on the road is ranked 24th? I have always thought that big name football get preferential treatment in everything college sports. Marquette and Creighton have better W/L stats than Bama. So do seton hall and Xavier I think

I definitely agree that the league has gotten disrespected in the past several years, esp. since the last round of realignment in 2013. I actually have always called it out in other boards (particularly in HLOH where I participate the most) that the quality of the league has been significantly better than what the polls say for most of the decade.

One thing I noticed is that Big East teams get very little pre-season hype and struggle to get on the AP poll early in the season until they prove their worth in the OOC and smack the voters in the face. In other words - we don't often get the benefit of the doubt early on like other programs do. Perhaps it has been due to the fact that the league moved its games to FS1 which has significant less visibility than the ESPN/CBS networks (but is slowly gaining ground on them), perhaps its due to the programs not being a CFB powerhouses (there is less commercial interest to hype the brands), perhaps there is some bias against Big East schools, maybe all of the above.

Who knows... But I'm glad that this year is probably the first year that I feel satisfied with the respect the league has been getting overall. 5 teams ranked is pretty legit for an 11-team league. Maybe it has helped that the ACC is down and the Big East has served as the standard bearer for the East Coast. The Big East needs to make sure it stays that way. Lets beat the ACC every year! Keep our coaching stability and recruit tough! In the next TV negotiations I would really love if the Big East retains Fox as a primary partner but also signs ESPN as a secondary partner to force their hand with coverage... something like what the Big Ten does.

 

[Jaydumo20]

What makes you think the conference is disrespected year in and year out? There's many years that people thought the opposite, that the Big East was getting too much love in the tourney (at least when it came to how many teams made it in). Last year was probably the only anomaly, but that had more to do with COVID and the wacky disjointed season.

To your point though, I do remember the year that the Big East had a gaudy number of entrants. Like 9 or something (and I remember they didn't live up to that hype). Big ten is supposed to have 9 in this year and I doubt most people would even blink an eye at that number. I saw one bracket prediction that had Michigan getting in. I still think we don't get the immediate respect that the Big 5s do. We really have to earn it.

 

[Jaydumo20]

I definitely agree that the league has gotten disrespected in the past several years, esp. since the last round of realignment in 2013. I actually have always called it out in other boards (particularly in HLOH where I participate the most) that the quality of the league has been significantly better than what the polls say for most of the decade.

One thing I noticed is that Big East teams get very little pre-season hype and struggle to get on the AP poll early in the season until they prove their worth in the OOC and smack the voters in the face. In other words - we don't often get the benefit of the doubt early on like other programs do. Perhaps it has been due to the fact that the league moved its games to FS1 which has significant less visibility than the ESPN/CBS networks (but is slowly gaining ground on them), perhaps its due to the programs not being a CFB powerhouses (there is less commercial interest to hype the brands), perhaps there is some bias against Big East schools, maybe all of the above.

Who knows... But I'm glad that this year is probably the first year that I feel satisfied with the respect the league has been getting overall. 5 teams ranked is pretty legit for an 11-team league. Maybe it has helped that the ACC is down and the Big East has served as the standard bearer for the East Coast. The Big East needs to make sure it stays that way. Lets beat the ACC every year! Keep our coaching stability and recruit tough! In the next TV negotiations I would really love if the Big East retains Fox as a primary partner but also signs ESPN as a secondary partner to force their hand with coverage... something like what the Big Ten does.

Good point about the networks. I agree- that, coupled with the CFB stuff kind of keeps the BE less visible. But also agree, this year feels like it's on the upswing. Especially if the teams perform in the tourney.

 

[HooperScooper]

To your point though, I do remember the year that the Big East had a gaudy number of entrants. Like 9 or something (and I remember they didn't live up to that hype).

11 in 2011. And yes, they didn't live up to the hype. Except one team who I remember did very well.

 

[Jaydumo20]

11 in 2011. And yes, they didn't live up to the hype. Except one team who I remember did very well.

Damn. 11! I guess it was '11. I really only cared about us. I'm not one of those guys who can root all that hard for our rivals even it is good for our conference.

 

[superjohn]

I think the league gets downgraded vs the P5 leagues. I'm not sure there is a cure for it except for some Big East team that isn't Villanova to go on a run in the tournament. When you look at B10, B12, SEC, Pac and ACC (normally not now) they always have 3-4 teams that are a threat and different teams make deep runs.

The Big 10 hasn't won a tournament since 2000, Pac hasn't won a tournament since '97.

I disagree with your post.

 

[superjohn]

This thread is weird. Just in 2018 Nova and Xavier were both #1 seeds and Nova went on a deep run destroying everyone in the tournament and destroying Michigan for a national championship. League was going to get 7 teams in the tournament the Covid year and Seton Hall was being talked about as a #2 seed despite having 9 losses and they were being talked about as a final 4 type team. Last year was an outlier, the league just wasn't very good and they were hit by Covid more than any other conference.

Maybe some ESPN talking heads don't talk about them as much as some other conferences because the Big East isn't their product but everyone knows it's a great league and the committee knows it's a great league.

 

[Jaydumo20]

This thread is weird. Just in 2018 Nova and Xavier were both #1 seeds and Nova went on a deep run destroying everyone in the tournament and destroying Michigan for a national championship. League was going to get 7 teams in the tournament the Covid year and Seton Hall was being talked about as a #2 seed despite having 9 losses and they were being talked about as a final 4 type team. Last year was an outlier, the league just wasn't very good and they were hit by Covid more than any other conference.

Maybe some ESPN talking heads don't talk about them as much as some other conferences because the Big East isn't their product but everyone knows it's a great league and the committee knows it's a great league.

Yeah. But Nova had an undeniable record. You couldn't have seeded them a 3, for example, without an investigation following. Nobody is saying BE hasnt had any success. I love the big east. We are saying that they don't get the same level of respect or attention during the year.

 

[Huskyforlife]

This thread is weird. Just in 2018 Nova and Xavier were both #1 seeds and Nova went on a deep run destroying everyone in the tournament and destroying Michigan for a national championship. League was going to get 7 teams in the tournament the Covid year and Seton Hall was being talked about as a #2 seed despite having 9 losses and they were being talked about as a final 4 type team. Last year was an outlier, the league just wasn't very good and they were hit by Covid more than any other conference.

Maybe some ESPN talking heads don't talk about them as much as some other conferences because the Big East isn't their product but everyone knows it's a great league and the committee knows it's a great league.

Having no elite teams this year has hurt from a public perception standpoint. Have heard multiple analysts dismiss the conference for that. Just a group of solid teams.

 

[AntG168]

Having no elite teams this year has hurt from a public perception standpoint. Have heard multiple analysts dismiss the conference for that. Just a group of solid teams.

We can still change that perception. If 3-4 teams end up in the sweet 16 they can’t run with that narrative

 

[UconnU]

5 seed. Win tomorrow and move into position for a coveted top 4 seed?

 

[TheChamps990411]

And is this for real? I haven't been paying attention, but Duke is the ONLY ACC team in the top 34?

Yikes! Would not be surprised to see Duke out of the top 30 after K leaves.

 

[MU in MKE]

Yeah. But Nova had an undeniable record. You couldn't have seeded them a 3, for example, without an investigation following. Nobody is saying BE hasnt had any success. I love the big east. We are saying that they don't get the same level of respect or attention during the year.

I was originally reading this thread as just tournament related, in which case I stand by my statement that we get more then our fair share of respect. The concession I make is that some in the media, but actually just ESPN, don't talk about the BE much unless a team is ranked or has a compelling storyline. CBS, FOX and online media outlets along with bloggers etc all tout the BE. Maybe the perception that the BE doesn't get respect comes from people who primarily watch ESPN? I wouldn't blame them for the perspective if that's the case b/c of how ESPN treats the BE. Of course my answer there is don't watch ESPN for your sporting news!

 

[Get a Job]

Regarding this "respect" issue: Could it just be as simple as there are a lot more fans of schools from other conferences. I don't know the numbers, but I can't imagine fans of Big East schools make up more than a low single digit percentage of overall college basketball fans. Media outlets cover that which makes them money. Of course, this doesn't directly address any "disrespect" as far as seeding goes, but a.) I am not sure how real said disrespect is, and b.) if Big East schools get less coverage, that could lead to the schools being less front-of-mind for the selection committee, leading to potentially lower-than-deserved seeding.

 

[HuskyHawk]

The Big 10 hasn't won a tournament since 2000, Pac hasn't won a tournament since '97.

I disagree with your post.

Winning the tournament isn't what matters. Getting to the sweet 16 and elite 8 are what matters for seeding. P5 conferences crush the Big East on that metric since the split. Villanova has been the Big East's one trick pony, like Gonzaga in the WCC and gets seeded like it.
2019: No BE team makes the second weekend.
2018: Nova NC. Seton Hall made it to the second weekend in 2018, but Xavier couldn't manage it as a #1 seed.
2017: Villanova missed the 2nd weekend as #1 seed in 2017 but Xavier did make a final4 as a #11 and Butler made a sweet 16.
2016: Nova wins a NC, Xavier wins one game as a #2 seed.
2015: Xavier gets to the round of 32. Nova wins one game as a #1 seed.
2014: No Big East team gets to the 2nd weekend.

So yes, two NCs and one final 4 from Xavier. But the depth of teams playing into the second weekend is not good since the split. I do think UConn can help with that. Seeds for everybody not named Villanova reflect that.

 

[Jaydumo20]

I was originally reading this thread as just tournament related, in which case I stand by my statement that we get more then our fair share of respect. The concession I make is that some in the media, but actually just ESPN, don't talk about the BE much unless a team is ranked or has a compelling storyline. CBS, FOX and online media outlets along with bloggers etc all tout the BE. Maybe the perception that the BE doesn't get respect comes from people who primarily watch ESPN? I wouldn't blame them for the perspective if that's the case b/c of how ESPN treats the BE. Of course my answer there is don't watch ESPN for your sporting news!

Admittedly I do watch ESPN more than other outlets out of sheer habit. So this makes sense. But certain things in the polls do bother me. The Alabama thing? How are they ranked? I can't prove it, but I suspect there is more attention given to Alabama on a national platform as opposed to a Creighton. Creighton, Marquette and Xavier have comparable if not better numbers. 2-6 on the road does not sound like a ranked team to me. Nor a 14-11 record

 

[navery12]

Admittedly I do watch ESPN more than other outlets out of sheer habit. So this makes sense. But certain things in the polls do bother me. The Alabama thing? How are they ranked? I can't prove it, but I suspect there is more attention given to Alabama on a national platform as opposed to a Creighton. Creighton, Marquette and Xavier have comparable if not better numbers. 2-6 on the road does not sound like a ranked team to me. Nor a 14-11 record

Alabama has played the hardest SOS as of now, so just looking at their 17-10 record doesn't tell the whole story. If you look at the advanced metrics like KenPom/Bart Torvik they're rated very similarly to UConn so makes sense to me they'd be a borderline top 25 team. They've had a few slipups to some really bad teams like Georgia and Missouri, but all their other losses for the past 2 months have been to Kentucky and Auburn twice each, all while ranked in the top 5. And have also beaten #4 Baylor and #13 LSU during that stretch

 

[PNolanFan]

I am so triggered by the Big 10 right now. Last year if you look at the bracket, they literally had about the worst performance imaginable and I remember thinking last march that there is no way the Big 10 continues to receive the respect after this and yet here we are

 

[Jaydumo20]

Alabama has played the hardest SOS as of now, so just looking at their 17-10 record doesn't tell the whole story. If you look at the advanced metrics like KenPom/Bart Torvik they're rated very similarly to UConn so makes sense to me they'd be a borderline top 25 team. They've had a few slipups to some really bad teams like Georgia and Missouri, but all their other losses for the past 2 months have been to Kentucky and Auburn twice each, all while ranked in the top 5. And have also beaten #4 Baylor and #13 LSU during that stretch

I've seen all these stats and I can't argue with their validity. My main point is simpler than I am expressing it. Here it is in a nutshell: even though the BE has had some of the most, if not the most, tourney wins out of any conference they have an uphill battle.
I feel that when given the choice between promoting the success of big 5 schools like Texas, Bama, lsu, Michigan, Ohio state etc. The committees and networks treat them more favorably than the Creightons, providences, Marquettes and Seton halls of the world. If I have to dig deep to prove it with numbers I will try.

 

[Jaydumo20]

I am so triggered by the Big 10 right now. Last year if you look at the bracket, they literally had about the worst performance imaginable and I remember thinking last march that there is no way the Big 10 continues to receive the respect after this and yet here we are

Yes. And yes.

 

[kobe]

Winning the tournament isn't what matters. Getting to the sweet 16 and elite 8 are what matters for seeding. P5 conferences crush the Big East on that metric since the split. Villanova has been the Big East's one trick pony, like Gonzaga in the WCC and gets seeded like it.
2019: No BE team makes the second weekend.
2018: Nova NC. Seton Hall made it to the second weekend in 2018, but Xavier couldn't manage it as a #1 seed.
2017: Villanova missed the 2nd weekend as #1 seed in 2017 but Xavier did make a final4 as a #11 and Butler made a sweet 16.
2016: Nova wins a NC, Xavier wins one game as a #2 seed.
2015: Xavier gets to the round of 32. Nova wins one game as a #1 seed.
2014: No Big East team gets to the 2nd weekend.

So yes, two NCs and one final 4 from Xavier. But the depth of teams playing into the second weekend is not good since the split. I do think UConn can help with that. Seeds for everybody not named Villanova reflect that.

absolute fake news.

eggavier has zero final fours in school history. its something worth mentioning anytime you encounter one of those wretched little blue men. they could only muster an elite 8 that season.

 

[August_West]

Alabama has played the hardest SOS as of now, so just looking at their 17-10 record doesn't tell the whole story. If you look at the advanced metrics like KenPom/Bart Torvik they're rated very similarly to UConn so makes sense to me they'd be a borderline top 25 team. They've had a few slipups to some really bad teams like Georgia and Missouri, but all their other losses for the past 2 months have been to Kentucky and Auburn twice each, all while ranked in the top 5. And have also beaten #4 Baylor and #13 LSU during that stretch

Bama is up and down but Ive somehow watched a ton of them this year. It's a scary team. Ive seen them look as good as anyone in country.

 

[Jaydumo20]

Winning the tournament isn't what matters. Getting to the sweet 16 and elite 8 are what matters for seeding. P5 conferences crush the Big East on that metric since the split. Villanova has been the Big East's one trick pony, like Gonzaga in the WCC and gets seeded like it.
2019: No BE team makes the second weekend.
2018: Nova NC. Seton Hall made it to the second weekend in 2018, but Xavier couldn't manage it as a #1 seed.
2017: Villanova missed the 2nd weekend as #1 seed in 2017 but Xavier did make a final4 as a #11 and Butler made a sweet 16.
2016: Nova wins a NC, Xavier wins one game as a #2 seed.
2015: Xavier gets to the round of 32. Nova wins one game as a #1 seed.
2014: No Big East team gets to the 2nd weekend.

So yes, two NCs and one final 4 from Xavier. But the depth of teams playing into the second weekend is not good since the split. I do think UConn can help with that. Seeds for everybody not named Villanova reflect that.

Maybe the Xavier final 4 stat was wrong, but either way you make a great point. I have learned something here today . I originally stated that the BE gets no love. I guess I should change that to - they probably haven't done enough to deserve it.