Any space for UMass football in all this conference madness?

[nelsonmuntz]

Has not been a successful move by UMass...

2013: 1-11
2014: 3-9
2015: 3-9
2016: 2-10
2017: 4-8
2018: 4-8
2019: 1-11
2020: 0-4
2021: 1-11
2022: 1-11

UMass loses a lot. Thanks for that.

Why are so many teams upgrading?

 

[CL82]

The plan is coming together

Now all we need is for nova to commit to FBS football. Sure, it's over a decade late to save the Big East, but better late than never right?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Why is Delaware considering moving up? Why have so many teams already moved up? The incremental guarantee game money a FBS gets does not come close to justifying the incremental cost of upgrading. How do they justify this financially? They aren't all stupid. These schools must think that incremental revenue will offset the incremental cost.

While this may be real, I'll need to see it before I believe it. Three different times over the past quarter century (the most recent about a decade ago) there were public comments made by the school in response to rumors/speculation that they were considering moving up in football. The basic response was always along the lines of 'we are very happy with the success we've enjoyed at this level' and 'we don't believe the potential benefits of upgrading are worth the costs/risks'.

My guess is that this is merely wishful thinking on UMass' part.

 

[huskymedic]

While this may be real, I'll need to see it before I believe it. Three different times over the past quarter century (the most recent about a decade ago) there were public comments made by the school in response to rumors/speculation that they were considering moving up in football. The basic response was always along the lines of 'we are very happy with the success we've enjoyed at this level' and 'we don't believe the potential benefits of upgrading are worth the costs/risks'.

Its a process From within the Delaware article:

-> But Delaware does seem closer than ever to ditching its long association with the NCAA’s Division I Football Championship Subdivision.
You are, as the saying goes, who you surround yourself with. The Coastal Athletic Association’s recent addition of Bryant University, who’ll come in next year in the wake of Campbell and other recent expansion newcomers, further distances Delaware from its alleged athletic and academic peers. The behind-the-scenes effort by Delaware to raise money for a pricey project to enclose the north end of Delaware Stadium attached to a massive indoor practice structure with locker rooms and offices for several teams is ongoing. Delaware has still not announced it publicly as it pursues large financial promises to cover a significant portion of what might be a $100 million undertaking. <-

-> As we reported last fall, the sentiment is it only makes sense for Delaware to commit to such an expenditure if it includes a move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the college game’s highest level. The FCS has long been appealing because of six-time national champion Delaware’s historical prominence at such a level. But the FCS’s status has seemed to wane in recent years, with a slew of departures by its foremost members. The NCAA even seemed to demonstrate dwindling dedication to FCS by moving its title game last season to Sunday, where, up against NFL games, it had its second lowest fall-season TV viewership over 10 years despite a switch from ESPN2 to ABC.

In the meantime, Delaware athletic officials have been given approval by the UD Board of Trustees to more closely examine a move up to FBS and entertain possible conference destinations. That is a bold blessing, and a further signal of a potential climb.<-

 

[king conn]

Its a process From within the Delaware article:

-> But Delaware does seem closer than ever to ditching its long association with the NCAA’s Division I Football Championship Subdivision.
You are, as the saying goes, who you surround yourself with. The Coastal Athletic Association’s recent addition of Bryant University, who’ll come in next year in the wake of Campbell and other recent expansion newcomers, further distances Delaware from its alleged athletic and academic peers. The behind-the-scenes effort by Delaware to raise money for a pricey project to enclose the north end of Delaware Stadium attached to a massive indoor practice structure with locker rooms and offices for several teams is ongoing. Delaware has still not announced it publicly as it pursues large financial promises to cover a significant portion of what might be a $100 million undertaking. <-

-> As we reported last fall, the sentiment is it only makes sense for Delaware to commit to such an expenditure if it includes a move up to the Football Bowl Subdivision, the college game’s highest level. The FCS has long been appealing because of six-time national champion Delaware’s historical prominence at such a level. But the FCS’s status has seemed to wane in recent years, with a slew of departures by its foremost members. The NCAA even seemed to demonstrate dwindling dedication to FCS by moving its title game last season to Sunday, where, up against NFL games, it had its second lowest fall-season TV viewership over 10 years despite a switch from ESPN2 to ABC.

In the meantime, Delaware athletic officials have been given approval by the UD Board of Trustees to more closely examine a move up to FBS and entertain possible conference destinations. That is a bold blessing, and a further signal of a potential climb.<-

ESPN/ ACC has given them the go ahead for the next invite

 

[billybud]

UMass loses a lot. Thanks for that.

Why are so many teams upgrading?

Why did UMass upgrade...not for football success, anyway.

Teams upgrade for several reasons...prestige, more revenue, scheduling (may find it easier to schedule FBS teams than as an FCS), fan base building, ticket sales, etc.

What do you think ?

 

[billybud]

The Topic is about there being any space for UMass in all of this conference madness...

UMass is a horrible football program.....maybe a minor conference with schools in the east might take them as filler.

 

[billybud]

Delaware just got pasted 7-63 by Penn State.....and Penn State only scored 7 in the 4th qtr with scrubs..

 

[Kolumbo]

Why is Delaware considering moving up? Why have so many teams already moved up? The incremental guarantee game money a FBS gets does not come close to justifying the incremental cost of upgrading. How do they justify this financially? They aren't all stupid. These schools must think that incremental revenue will offset the incremental cost.

Delaware has an almost $2 billion endowment, much more than neighbor Maryland. Maybe moving up to FBS is more about the front porch of the University and less about trying to make money in sports. At this rate, UMass and Delaware could be in the Sunbelt, a conference we are not worthy of at the moment.

 

[Zissou]

Now all we need is for nova to commit to FBS football. Sure, it's over a decade late to save the Big East, but better late than never right?

It would probably need UConn and others to put together the makings of a northeastern alliance to show Nova the way. Leadership isn’t there to initiate change within the program.

 

[Zissou]

Delaware just got pasted 7-63 by Penn State.....and Penn State only scored 7 in the 4th qtr with scrubs..

Remember FSU - Jacksonville State?

 

[billybud]

Oh I do...Coach Norvell taking over a hot mess ended up with five wins...Jax State scored on the last play of the game on a miracle 59 yard hail Mary to win by 3.

And now...the coach has turned it around...has the nation's longest streak of 35 point scoring games (8 games)...pasted LSU and scored 66 on Southern Miss in the first two games of this young season...and will be ranked #3 today. LOL...He and Deion will probably be in the running for Coach of the Year.

Upsets occasionally happen....But...a Delaware, with a steady stream of P5's, would be lucky to win 3.

There is a large disparity between the top of FBS and the bottom of FBS with the Bell Curve distribution of football strength....there will be occasional upsets and close games...but..

Looking at this past weekend...

Georgia 45..Ball State 3

Michigan 35...UNLV 7

FSU 66...Southern Miss 13

Ohio State 35...Youngstown State 7

Kansas State 42...Troy 13

Duke 42...Lafayette 7

USC 56...Stanford 10

 

[CL82]

It would probably need UConn and others to put together the makings of a northeastern alliance to show Nova the way. Leadership isn’t there to initiate change within the program.

Okay we've started rust by going independent. Your turn.

 

[Zissou]

There is a large disparity between the top of FBS and the bottom of FBS with the Bell Curve distribution of football strength....there will be occasional upsets and close games...but..

Looking at this past weekend...

Ohio State 35...Youngstown State 7

Duke 42...Lafayette 7

Youngstown State and Lafayette are FCS level, not the bottom of FBS.

Lafayette is Patriot League, so not only FCS, but no football scholarships.

 

[Zissou]

JMU, Marshall, ODU (former FCS) beat FCS this week.

App State took UNC to 2OT.

When was the last time Navy played Delaware?

 

[Zissou]

Okay we've started it by going independent. Your turn.

You will have to right the instructions on a post-it and stick it on the Nova AD’s forehead.

 

[billybud]

JMU, Marshall, ODU (former FCS) beat FCS this week.

App State took UNC to 2OT.

When was the last time Navy played Delaware?

You will have outliers...but do you honestly think that Delaware can compete at a high level in FBS ?

Yeah, they beat a 4 win Navy team by 7...but lost to Elon-Phoenix, William and Mary, Richmond and Nova...(and Nova was beaten by Monmouth, Towson, William and Mary, Richmond..)

 

[Zissou]

You will have outliers...but do you honestly think that Delaware can compete at a high level in FBS ?

Yeah, they beat a 4 win Navy team by 7...but lost to Elon-Phoenix, William and Mary, Richmond and Nova...(and Nova was beaten by Monmouth, Towson, William and Mary, Richmond..)

I think UD can be competitive at the G8 level, as can App. I don’t think they can be competitive at the top half of the P2.

 

[billybud]

Delaware vs the ACC...zero for five since 2011...

Average loss by 27.2 points...

 

[billybud]

Delaware is 1-9 vs North Carolina Central...2004-2022...

If you are a consistent loser to North Carolina Central in the MEAC, you might be a body bag game in the FBS.

 

[Zissou]

Delaware vs the ACC...zero for five since 2011...

Average loss by 27.2 points...

That’s FCS vs FBS. FBS usually wins, but sometimes the fodder runs over the artillery (Jacksonville State over FSU).

UD has won the FCS championship. They have had ups and downs, but they are a potential to move up whether you like it or not.

UCF moved up from FCS, never having won a FCS championship, and won a share of a national championship at FBS.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The other question to ask is if the Big East is too small with 11 schools? Would 5-7 more schools strengthen the attractiveness for TV and streaming?

 

[Zissou]

The other question to ask is if the Big East is too small with 11 schools? Would 5-7 more schools strengthen the attractiveness for TV and streaming?

IMO it’s not worth adding except for blue blood programs. You give up the full double round robin schedule by adding 5-7, which isn’t huge but it’s something.

If it’s the St Louis, Dayton, VCU type schools…. Hard no.

The B12 has seemed to stabilize and win this last round. If it worked out differently and it was Kansas, K State, and Iowa State…. Hard yes.

If the ACC implodes and Clemson, Miami, and FSU go SEC, and UVA and UNC go B1G, and NC State and Virginia Tech go Big 12, then merging and adding Boston College, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Wake Forest. That would be 19 for hoops. Notre Dame as football Indy with a schedule agreement.

Football would be:
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
UConn
Nova
Notre Dame*

(That’s 6 private schools and 4 state schools for this scoring at home).

 

[billybud]

That’s FCS vs FBS. FBS usually wins, but sometimes the fodder runs over the artillery (Jacksonville State over FSU).

UD has won the FCS championship. They have had ups and downs, but they are a potential to move up whether you like it or not.

UCF moved up from FCS, never having won a FCS championship, and won a share of a national championship at FBS.

We are talking Delaware...Delaware is not UCF...Delaware is Delaware...move the goal post...

There is not a chance that Delaware could be other than an unneeded lower scale addition to the FBS....I don't think that tey would thrive in the Sunbelt.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

IMO it’s not worth adding except for blue blood programs. You give up the full double round robin schedule by adding 5-7, which isn’t huge but it’s something.

If it’s the St Louis, Dayton, VCU type schools…. Hard no.

The B12 has seemed to stabilize and win this last round. If it worked out differently and it was Kansas, K State, and Iowa State…. Hard yes.

If the ACC implodes and Clemson, Miami, and FSU go SEC, and UVA and UNC go B1G, and NC State and Virginia Tech go Big 12, then merging and adding Boston College, Duke, Georgia Tech, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, and Wake Forest. That would be 19 for hoops. Notre Dame as football Indy with a schedule agreement.

Football would be:
Boston College
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Wake Forest
UConn
Nova
Notre Dame*

(That’s 6 private schools and 4 state schools for this scoring at home).

That is too far out into the future. I don't know what conferences will look like in a streaming/NIL/Transfer Portal/Demographic Cliff world, although I doubt they will look exactly like they look now. I am talking about before all these linear contracts expire.

There will be a goldilocks number of teams a league will need to get fans to sign up for a streaming subscription. I don't know what that number is, but it is likely bigger than 11. The conferences don't need to merge. They can form an alliance. So, the Big East could form an alliance with the Big 10 or ACC to be on a joint streaming platform. I do think it could be in the Big East's interest to add a handful of big city teams, or a flagship state school like UMass. If Oregon, Cal, Washington and Stanford will take less than a full share, there are probably a lot of schools that will take less than a full share.

 

[Steve1981]

OK, have to ask your opinion on this since not convince Delaware would make UMass basketball happy as basketball. Like the idea of a New England pairing, with basketball history to the MAC. Initially give UConn a FB only pairing with UMass all sports. See if AD Thor Bjorn can get the Meade Stadium, 42M project in full if the legislature knew they are on a wait list pairing with UMass in the MAC. Kent State was in the Elite 8 in 2002 and Ohio in the Sweet Sixteen in 2012. IF we get better with some help, MAC basketball will be better than you all imagine.

 

[billybud]

I have always been fond of Appalachian State ever since their upset of Michigan...a pretty nifty football program...capable of giving teams a tough game.

I love this Mac Brown quote after this weekend.

Pressed on if the App-UNC games were good for football in the state of North Carolina, Brown came back with a good line: "It's a great thing for the state of North Carolina, and I encourage NC State and East Carolina" to play them.

 

[Zissou]

We are talking Delaware...Delaware is not UCF...Delaware is Delaware...move the goal post...

There is not a chance that Delaware could be other than an unneeded lower scale addition to the FBS....I don't think that tey would thrive in the Sunbelt.

It’s hard to tell. You may have said the same about UConn being able to move up and compete in the BCS Big East, but they did. And they did not have as much FCS success as UD.

FSU has tons of resources and has never won the basketball championship. It’s not always about resources.

 

[Drew]

JMU, Marshall, ODU (former FCS) beat FCS this week.

App State took UNC to 2OT.

When was the last time Navy played Delaware?

Delaware beat Navy to open the season last year in week 1

 

[Kolumbo]

I have always been fond of Appalachian State ever since their upset of Michigan...a pretty nifty football program...capable of giving teams a tough game.

I love this Mac Brown quote after this weekend.

Pressed on if the App-UNC games were good for football in the state of North Carolina, Brown came back with a good line: "It's a great thing for the state of North Carolina, and I encourage NC State and East Carolina" to play them.

I know a kid that goes to App State and his mother said one of the things he looks forward to the most is the weather. APParently it's not nearly as hot as the other areas of NC.

https://x.com/NelsonAerials/status/1189674835208744961?s=20