Another Short Bench for the Huskies This Season?

[BobbyJ]

This is certainly a frustrating topic. These bench players who accepted scholarship offers from UConn who sit and wait, may very well be starting players on other college basketball programs. Ultimately, their own patience may bring them to some tough decisions to either dig in or leave. On the other hand, the choice of UConn coaches to "bet" on these players presents a decision that I wish that I could understand. Having little or no depth on this team presents risks. Risks if a member of the starting team has an injury, risks that he will have tired players, risks that substitutes cannot play at the same level of intensity and leads will be compromised and risks that they cannot compete. We have all wished that UConn would leave the American Conference but maybe it is better that for 16 games they will not have to play with the kind of intensity that would be required if they were in a more competitive league. On the other hand, recruiting might also be different that it is today. That's my 2 pennies worth from the ranch in Northeast New Mexico.

I don't see it as UConn betting on these kids. More like the kids bet on themselves to be able to compete at this level. And you're right, at some point they may realize that they can't and will have a decision to make. I tend to believe that, at the time UConn recruited them they felt that for what they were looking for and for what and who was available to them, these were the best kids they could get. Remember, these kids may not have been their first choices and their priorities chose to go elsewhere. As for the AAC, this team WILL have to play with the same intensity that they need against ND. I believe this is a much different season.

 

[Carnac]

I don't see it as UConn betting on these kids. More like the kids bet on themselves to be able to compete at this level. And you're right, at some point they may realize that they can't and will have a decision to make. I tend to believe that, at the time UConn recruited them they felt that for what they were looking for and for what and who was available to them, these were the best kids they could get. Remember, these kids may not have been their first choices and their priorities chose to go elsewhere. As for the AAC, this team WILL have to play with the same intensity that they need against ND. I believe this is a much different season.

It was somewhat disappointing to see the reserves get outplayed by a group of NAIA level players. There’s an od adage that says “When people show or tell you who they are, believe them”.

Unless things change in the very near future, you can look for most of the starters to play 30 minutes or more a game, at least the first half of the season.

 

[BobbyJ]

It was somewhat disappointing to see the reserves get outplayed by a group of NAIA level players. There’s an od adage that says “When people show or tell you who they are, believe them”.

Unless things change in the very near future, you can look for most of the starters to play 30 minutes or more a game, at least the first half of the season.

I'm thinking 35-40 a game, even against the AAC.

 

[HopJim]

You’re right. Geno’s done a lousy job coaching his players over the years. As for changing his players, maybe he can stop by his local Walmart and pick up a half dozen additional HS AA’s off the shelf.

I would add a comment that Geno himself made after the past two final 4's. He felt he got outcoached in both losses. If he can say it, I feel comfortable commenting as well. My opinion is that if you had more talent and not the this bench, perhaps his decisions would have been different.

 

[oldude]

I would add a comment that Geno himself made after the past two final 4's. He felt he got outcoached in both losses. If he can say it, I feel comfortable commenting as well. My opinion is that if you had more talent and not the this bench, perhaps his decisions would have been different.

OK, so what you’re saying is that If A’ja Wilson had chosen UConn over SC, the Huskies would have won the last 2 national championships, and they would currently be working on about a 150 game winning streak. I agree. But Geno, like every other coach, has to coach the players he has, not the ones that got away.

Does Geno make mistakes? Sure he does. But his track record is better than any other coach in WBB. I took issue with a poster who was excessively critical of Geno’s ability to develop players and/or recruit a sufficient number of good players. I’m sorry, but that dog just won’t hunt.

 

[JoePgh]

Let us not forget that Notre Dame won a National Championship last year with a bench that, for different reasons, did not contribute any more to the team's success than Uconn's bench is likely to contribute this year. And they beat two really good teams in the Final Four to do that.

Who has a notably more effective bench than Uconn's? I am still waiting to hear who is on Notre Dame's bench that is almost as good as Uconn's starting five. Who else has a bench good enough to allow its starters to play less than 30 minutes against Uconn and still have a chance to win the game?

 

[victor64]

Getting outscored 15-9 in an exhibition game when the five on the floor were limited with what they could do does not mean they have a short bench.

Geno used the Tulsa game last year to show the fans that "here is why they don't play more, they aren't very good". I thought it was unfair statement then and still do.

He says that they have to prove it in practice to earn their time. Yep and it has worked wonderfully for 33 years. What I wonder about is if you know that you need more than 5 or 6 (especially because of injuries) why isn't the 16 or so game exhibition schedule called the American Conference used to develop a player or two that could provide impactful minutes in a difficult NCAA game?

I hate questioning anything Geno does because of his resume and the phenomenal product his puts on the floor. I am sure he has spent hours talking with the staff on this very issue. As of yet, I am not sure their solution has generated the desired result

 

[Charliebball]

Getting outscored 15-9 in an exhibition game when the five on the floor were limited with what they could do does not mean they have a short bench.

Geno used the Tulsa game last year to show the fans that "here is why they don't play more, they aren't very good". I thought it was unfair statement then and still do.

He says that they have to prove it in practice to earn their time. Yep and it has worked wonderfully for 33 years. What I wonder about is if you know that you need more than 5 or 6 (especially because of injuries) why isn't the 16 or so game exhibition schedule called the American Conference used to develop a player or two that could provide impactful minutes in a difficult NCAA game?

I hate questioning anything Geno does because of his resume and the phenomenal product his puts on the floor. I am sure he has spent hours talking with the staff on this very issue. As of yet, I am not sure their solution has generated the desired result

others would say you have to believe in the process no matter what impact it has on the starters................I'm in agreement that the starter's minutes need to be limited regardless of the quality of the bench product in the fourth quarter up 40 points......

 

[BroadwayVa]

During the 2015-16 Season, UConn’s regular rotation was pretty much confined to 7 players, up until the national championship game when the rotation was reduced to 6 following Lou’s broken foot in the national semifinal. Of course, those 7 players included 6 present and future first team AA’s. The only player not earning AA honors eventually became the 3rd of 3 straight NDPOY’s on that team. UConn has never been particularly deep. But considering their short bench over each of the past two years, the 2016 championship team felt like it had an embarrassment of riches.

Over the past two seasons, UConn has struggled mightily to build a 6-player rotation come tournament time, particularly when you consider injuries to key players along the way. While yesterday’s scrimmage demonstrated that UConn’s starting 5 will be very, very, very good, imo, no one off the bench looked like they could yet be counted on in the big games to come.

I know it is way too early to consider UConn’s rotation this year as finalized. But I had really hoped that one or more of the returning reserves, beyond Megan Walker, would be fighting for a starting position. Yes, Christyn is going to be a very special player at UConn, but I must confess that I was alarmed when I heard that she was the 5th starter several weeks ago. Liv will also be a special player at UConn eventually, but yesterday, as she got knocked around in the post, I had this terrifying vision of Liv matched up in the low post with Kalani Brown.

So where does that leave the Huskies? As he did throughout the regular season last year, and again yesterday, Geno will throw some minutes to various reserves with three to four starters on the floor to see if he can buy a few minutes of rest for his starters in big games, or in case of foul trouble, or, god forbid, in case of injury. UConn will also be playing a lot more zone this year to both limit fouls as well as fatigue, something a certain short-handed team in South Bend did extraordinarily well last season.

As of right now, I believe Batouly and Mikayla are the most likely to get minutes in the big nonconference games vs ND, Baylor, Louisville and SC. Batouly can set picks, rebound and bang in the low post against opposing teams Bigs, similar to Kristina Nelson’s role with ND last year. If Mikayla can play tough defense, penetrate on offense and dish to her teammates, she doesn’t have to score much to be effective in short spells as a sub for Crystal or Christyn. As everyone agrees, Liv is a tremendous athlete and she will be a player. Whether it’s this year or not remains to be seen.

But here’s the good news. Lou and Pheesa will be as good as any pair of teammates in the country. Crystal looks like she will be dropping spectacular dimes as well as raining down threes all over Husky opponents. Megan is ready to show everyone why she was the NPOY as a HS senior and Christyn will be a frontrunner for NFOY. Take that starting 5, and just get them a little bit of help off the bench, and this team is capable of winning it’s 12th national championship banner. It surely won’t be easy, but it’s definitely possible.

One final positive relative to UConn’s short bench was mentioned by several BY’ers yesterday. UConn’s incredible guest list of four future NCAA superstars from the 2018 U17 World Championship Team had to be watching and absolutely believing, “I can come to the best program in the history of WBB and play right away.” Hopefully, that pipeline of four HS AA’s to Storrs will begin with Ms. Jones and Ms. Boston in a few short weeks.[/QUOTE

As I have come to expect from you a good posting/analysis: I liked your 2nd paragraph.
Oliva has one exhibition game under her belt. Let us have comments in January too see where she is; she is a TALENT. Experience of this nature is hard to come by without actually playing and hopefully she won't sit in those games Uconn whoops up on an opponent.

Chrystn Williams WILL not be perfect! She will make an error here an there. She'll have a game or 3 with a drought-but she has more skill than many 1 and 2 years her senior.

Megan Walker isn't through yet, this is just her beginning. She'll make Virginia proud, and Connecticut too.
With apologies to RShermvike and you I have yet to see Camara as a 6,7,8th player. Her background, minus injuries, indicate you and RShermvike are right. As I saw players entering the game and 2 remained seated a long time I thought we had seen a 9 player rotation in the making--I thought Geno had shown his hand.
Coombs, fast with the ball (too fast when shooting near layups, that'll be fixed), steals well, sees the court well. Lack experience OBVIOUSLY in big time Div 1 play. If she slows down a bit and passes to the open player more she'll be effective as a sub for Danger/CW.
Other than the Florida tornadoe everything about Uconn is great.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Getting outscored 15-9 in an exhibition game when the five on the floor were limited with what they could do does not mean they have a short bench.

Geno used the Tulsa game last year to show the fans that "here is why they don't play more, they aren't very good". I thought it was unfair statement then and still do.

He says that they have to prove it in practice to earn their time. Yep and it has worked wonderfully for 33 years. What I wonder about is if you know that you need more than 5 or 6 (especially because of injuries) why isn't the 16 or so game exhibition schedule called the American Conference used to develop a player or two that could provide impactful minutes in a difficult NCAA game?

I hate questioning anything Geno does because of his resume and the phenomenal product his puts on the floor. I am sure he has spent hours talking with the staff on this very issue. As of yet, I am not sure their solution has generated the desired result

I thought the Tulsa game was pure BS. You don't field a team that hasn't had many minutes working as a TEAM and expect team results.

I know Muffet isn't Geno and ONLY has 2 NC's to her credit but historically she has used her bench early and often and at least ONcE (if not more) it has paid off. As Geno once told me, when I critiqued his use of a player: "You are no John Wooden". No I'm not, that poor guy is dead. And I don't have a single NC to my credit. I respect nearly all things Geno does with WBB and his history cannot be dismissed but humans make choices and all are not perfect.

 

[BigBird]

What is the deal on Camara? Some folks were predicting that she would be a starter and she got what, six minutes? Is she hurt again?

Geno alluded to that situation in his news conference. She hasn’t lost her energetic game. She has lost some of her speed (and comfort?) getting up and down the court.

 

[Longtime fan]

Let us not forget that Notre Dame won a National Championship last year with a bench that, for different reasons, did not contribute any more to the team's success than Uconn's bench is likely to contribute this year. And they beat two really good teams in the Final Four to do that.

Who has a notably more effective bench than Uconn's? I am still waiting to hear who is on Notre Dame's bench that is almost as good as Uconn's starting five. Who else has a bench good enough to allow its starters to play less than 30 minutes against Uconn and still have a chance to win the game?

Let's start with the fact that when ND's pre-season All American ( Brianna Turner ) went out for the year with an injury, a " bench " player stepped up to the point that no one noticed Brianna' absence, and they won the national championship. Who on our bench could, say, replace Katie Lou or Phessa and lead the team to a championship?

I am not going to go into a fantasy game of comparing each bench player at ND with our starting five ( that is a losing proposition with UCONN starting 3 pre-season AA candidates).....my point is that ND's bench players are very good (and deep)...and if they all started, the ND team would still be competitive.

Our bench, however, could not beat Vanguard.

And when the long season drags on to the NCAA tournament, bench strength ( depth and quality at all positions ) matters. Starting fives run out of gas when forced to play 30-35 minutes, in highly challenging games, only a few days apart.

 

[Carnac]

Let us not forget that Notre Dame won a National Championship last year with a bench that, for different reasons, did not contribute any more to the team's success than Uconn's bench is likely to contribute this year. And they beat two really good teams in the Final Four to do that.

Who has a notably more effective bench than Uconn's? I am still waiting to hear who is on Notre Dame's bench that is almost as good as Uconn's starting five. Who else has a bench good enough to allow its starters to play less than 30 minutes against Uconn and still have a chance to win the game?

Here's their bench, let's see:

ND played an exhibition game Oct 30th against Lewis University (107-65). The starters were: Young, Shepard, Turner, Ogunbowale, & Nixon. Reserves: Cole, Mabrey, Gilbert, Prohaska, Cosgrove, Vaughn, Patterson & Butler.

 

[HopJim]

OK, so what you’re saying is that If A’ja Wilson had chosen UConn over SC, the Huskies would have won the last 2 national championships, and they would currently be working on about a 150 game winning streak. I agree. But Geno, like every other coach, has to coach the players he has, not the ones that got away.

Does Geno make mistakes? Sure he does. But his track record is better than any other coach in WBB. I took issue with a poster who was excessively critical of Geno’s ability to develop players and/or recruit a sufficient number of good players. I’m sorry, but that dog just won’t hunt.

Dude, not sure why you would be critical of anyone saying having more talent would be good for UConn any year, any time. Doesn't mean it has to be Top20 kids, just skills to compliment the team and allow more than a 6-7 person rotation. Not being critical of Geno - just a fact of life.

 

[JoePgh]

Let's start with the fact that when ND's pre-season All American ( Brianna Turner ) went out for the year with an injury, a " bench " player stepped up to the point that no one noticed Brianna' absence, and they won the national championship. Who on our bench could, say, replace Katie Lou or Phessa and lead the team to a championship?

Turner's injury occurred in the NCAA tournament at the end of the 2016-17 season, so at the beginning of last season, ND was in exactly the same position as UConn is now.

At about the same time last spring, Azura Stevens unexpectedly announced that she would be going to the WNBA. That is the same kind of event as Turner's injury, and UConn is having to deal with it in basically the same way. Megan Walker needs to step up to provide approximately the same level of production as Azura (not doing it in the same way, of course), and I'm cautiously optimistic that she will do that. ONO will have to (somewhat) fulfill the same role as Kristina Nelson provided last year for ND, when she was their one and only real resource on the bench.

See below for more specific comments on Notre Dame's current bench players.

 

[bbballfan23]

I do not think this team can possibly compete with a team like ND, whose bench is as good ( nearly ) as our starting 5.

I’ve seen some foolish posts on here but this takes the cake. ND’s beach is nearly as good as our starting 5. Bahahaha

 

[oldude]

Dude, not sure why you would be critical of anyone saying having more talent would be good for UConn any year, any time. Doesn't mean it has to be Top20 kids, just skills to compliment the team and allow more than a 6-7 person rotation. Not being critical of Geno - just a fact of life.

I don’t disagree. Every team would like to have more talent on their roster. The post of mine that you quoted on this thread was in response to another poster’s criticism of Geno for not bringing in enough talent or coaching them up enough, which is sort of like criticizing a farmer for not getting milk from his chickens

 

[JoePgh]

Here's their bench, let's see:
View attachment 36026

The starters for their exhibition game Oct 30th were Young, Shepard, Turner, Ogunbowale, & Nixon.
Reserves: Cole, Mabrey, Gilbert, Prohaska, Cosgrove, Vaughn, Patterson & Butler.

Thanks for posting this. With the exception of Marina Mabrey (who I think will be in the actual starting lineup when the season starts), the other bench players that you have named look pretty much like UConn's bench players -- some but not all of them were fairly highly rated as high school players (though not in the Top 10 in their class, as far as I know), and none of them have any real minutes in college against serious competition.

When Notre Dame plays any Top 25 team, I would be surprised if any of them get into the game before the 4th quarter, and against Top 5 teams such as UConn, I doubt that they will get more than 10 minutes out of the 200 that are played. Against real competition, the ND starters will all play 35+ minutes, just like the UConn starters. In last year's final four, I don't recall ND playing more than six players against either UConn or Mississippi State.

It would be interesting, though probably not very entertaining, to see a game between UConn's bench and ND's bench, with no starters for either team allowed to play. I don't see any clear reason to think that ND would win, much less win easily. Assuming that Marina Mabrey doesn't play in that game, who on ND's bench is going to dominate against the UConn bench?

By the way, I thought the UConn bench players were rather effective on defense against Vanguard, though not on offense. I suspect the same would be true of ND's bench.

 

[BroadwayVa]

OK, so what you’re saying is that If A’ja Wilson had chosen UConn over SC, the Huskies would have won the last 2 national championships, and they would currently be working on about a 150 game winning streak. I agree. But Geno, like every other coach, has to coach the players he has, not the ones that got away.

Does Geno make mistakes? Sure he does. But his track record is better than any other coach in WBB. I took issue with a poster who was excessively critical of Geno’s ability to develop players and/or recruit a sufficient number of good players. I’m sorry, but that dog just won’t hunt.

Highlighted sentence above ACCURATE, I can't spend actual dollars don't have. It seems so foolish to speak of those gone or those who may have been a contributor, they just "ain't"!
Second para, 3rd sentence: There seems something amiss with those Geno recruits that are NOT top 5-6 players I've heard the --he needs role players too, ad nauseum. If his rotation is typically 8 it makes sense to have 9-10 who can give you minutes should injuries of the nature of this last season occur. To me it makes no sense to have players on a Division1 team that when called upon who can't give you near error-free minutes. They don't have to score, they should play defense at a higher level. Obviously, I'm not speaking NEW Frosh, but by March--most coaches seem to agree by then there are no freshmen on these teams. Sophs and above should not look lost on the court, in my uninformed opinion.

 

[bbballfan23]

Maybe look at this as a positive. We certainly have 3 players that are so good that you can’t take them out. You possibly have a 4th in CW. MW is what she is and she will be the one that is subbed out right away on most nights for ONO or Coombs. Even with Azura, the level dropped so you could only play her so much because you had 2 AA’s (Pheesa & Gabby) sitting.

 

[BroadwayVa]

I don’t disagree. Every team would like to have more talent on their roster. The post of mine that you quoted on this thread was in response to another poster’s criticism of Geno for not bringing in enough talent or coaching them up enough, which is sort of like criticizing a farmer for not getting milk from his chickens

Chickens no! But goats, pigs, and if pushed dog, cats can all provide SOME milk. But for the latter, you require a very tiny stool.

 

[BroadwayVa]

Maybe look at this as a positive. We certainly have 3 players that are so good that you can’t take them out. You possibly have a 4th in CW. MW is what she is and she will be the one that is subbed out right away on most nights for ONO or Coombs. Even with Azura, the level dropped so you could only play her so much because you had 2 AA’s (Pheesa & Gabby) sitting.

Azura was subbed in for Napheesa--Z was the SUB. Defense/Rebounding may have dropped off but scoring increased, usually--Z was a scoring machine. You'll excuse me, I hope, but I am a huge fan of Megan Walker. Her high school talent was among the best (she was 1 out of HS)
So should we expect her to be less, she had a year to get up to Geno's speed, learn the system, and she played more than just a little at the end of the season last. We will see as the year progresses how this 5 meshes. Coomb right now is not capable of subbing for CW or MW in really big games, she shall, it's coming but not right now.

 

[Carnac]

It will be interesting to see if Collier's can return to her old ways (numbers) in the paint this year like she did her sophomore year before having to yield to Stevens last year. She did some of best work in the paint (her office) that year.

Broadway - with respect to Coombs not being ready "right now", that will be the challenge for Geno and staff, to get her ready by the end of February. She has assets this team could desperately use. I think the more they expose her to live game play, the better she will get.

I'm not talking about earning playing time in practice, I'm talking about getting her ready for those last 6 "really BIG games" in March and April. If that's the plan, they to begin getting her ready NOW.

 

[bbballfan23]

Azura was subbed in for Napheesa--Z was the SUB. Defense/Rebounding may have dropped off but scoring increased, usually--Z was a scoring machine. You'll excuse me, I hope, but I am a huge fan of Megan Walker. Her high school talent was among the best (she was 1 out of HS)
So should we expect her to be less, she had a year to get up to Geno's speed, learn the system, and she played more than just a little at the end of the season last. We will see as the year progresses how this 5 meshes. Coomb right now is not capable of subbing for CW or MW in really big games, she shall, it's coming but not right now.

I know Z was the sub. I’m saying, when she came in, our level of play dropped. You realize ND won the entire thing last season playing only 6 players in the FF right? If they shoot like they did against MS St, UConn wins by 15-20. Overreacting because of a performance of a lifetime by ND & MS ST. It happens, no reason to overreact.

 

[bbballfan23]

It will be interesting to see if Collier's can return to her old ways (numbers) in the paint this year like she did her sophomore year before having to yield to Stevens last year. She did some of best work in the paint (her office) that year.

She’s the X-Factor. Let’s face it, this team will thrive or die with her & Lou. All the talk about the help is great but these two will decide our fate 9/10 & they are two of the best so I’m okay with that.