Another great move by the Rays

[sinkhole]

In typical Rays style they quietly pick up one of the top defensive catchers in baseball in Jose Molina. His pitch framing and ability to throw out runners and handling of pitchers are at elite levels. The best defense in baseball just got much better. At 37 he may play the most games of his career under Maddon who loved Jose when both were with Cali.

The Rays seem to be hoping that catcher defense is one of the market inefficiencies currently out there, and they're jumping on Molina before other teams figure it out.

Jonathan Broxton is a name being tossed around by both Tampa and Boston, he is looking for a one year deal to re-astablish his value. he would be an interesting pickup by either.

In other baseball wishes please let Boston sign the greatest HS football player in Ct history in Bobby V., he would provide so much entertainment watching that ship sink.

 

[zyron]

In typical Rays style they quietly pick up one of the top defensive catchers in baseball in Jose Molina. His pitch framing and ability to throw out runners and handling of pitchers are at elite levels. The best defense in baseball just got much better. At 37 he may play the most games of his career under Maddon who loved Jose when both were with Cali.

Hahahaha, you're joking right? Please tell me you're joking because Jose Molina is awful. I hope he plays the most games of his career, that would be fantastic.

 

[sinkhole]

I will take 80-100 games of Molina behind the dish.......

During his career, Molina has thrown out 153 of 410 attempted base stealers, a percentage of 37.3, fourth best among active catchers (minimum 500 games) behind Ivan Rodriguez (41.7 percent), Henry Blanco (40.8 percent) and his younger brother, Yadier Molina (39.3 percent).

"Jose has been one of the best defensive catchers in baseball over the past decade, and his presence will bring even more stability to our defense, and he will, of course, be a great asset to our young pitchers," said Rays Executive Vice President of Baseball Operations Andrew Friedman.

Over the past four seasons (2008-11), Molina has been the majors’ toughest catcher to steal against (minimum 200 games), throwing out 62 of 170 runners (36.5 percent) during that span.

During his career, pitchers have combined for a 3.94 ERA when throwing to Molina, fifth best among active catchers (minimum 500 games) behind Carlos Ruiz (3.73), Russell Martin (3.75), Yadier Molina (3.81) and Brian McCann (3.91). As a member of the Blue Jays, he threw out four Rays attempting to steal (Carl Crawford twice, B.J. Upton and Sean Rodriguez) in the first four innings of a 6-0 loss at Tropicana Field on April 25, 2010.

 

[Deadrody]

It remains to be seen how much of a move this will ultimately be. First of all, Molina is 37. He has not caught as many as 100 games in 4 years (as of the start of the 2012 season). His decline is a mathematical certainty. The only question is how soon and how far the descent goes in 2012. Certainly, trying to double his workload would accelerate the process.

And a good portion of his value in 2011 came from an above average offensive season, his first such season in a decade (career highs in BA and OBP), and one that is guaranteed not to be repeated. And the last above average season he had was in just 50 plate appearances.

The fact is, trying to catch Jose Molina 100 games is a sure way to end up with your backup catcher starting and your emergency catcher as your backup.

Its possible the Rays can wring a solid season out of Molina in 2012, but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that will be any kind of boon for Tampa. Please.

 

[tykurez]

Jose Molina falls into the "great move" category? For real?

He's a fantastic defensive pitcher and I'll even give you that's he's a glue-guy ... but it's like hitting with 8 guys in your lineup.

 

[sinkhole]

He can hit .180 and be a very valuable player. He is the best catcher in the game at framing pitchers. Jaso was awful behind the plate and Shoppach average. Molina will do wonders for Cobb, Hellickson, Moore and the other young pitchers. He will also groom the two young latin catchers Chirnos and Lobaton who will share time. I heard Molina on the radio in Tampa today he is a natural leader who says he signed with Tampa to win a championship. I love this move. Tampa now has plus defenders at all 8 postions.

Here is a Seattle Mariner writer who agrees.
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/11/28/2593077/jose-molina-tampa-bay-rays

 

[sinkhole]

Here is a well written study on framing pitchers. I looks like Molina and Russell Martin are very good while Tek and Posada suck.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

The graphs with actual pitches and what got called a strike are great.

 

[Deadrody]

Here is a well written study on framing pitchers. I looks like Molina and Russell Martin are very good while Tek and Posada suck.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15093

The graphs with actual pitches and what got called a strike are great.

And even IF he continues at that pace, 73 runs over 5 years is good for 1.46 Wins Above Average. I'm trying to find a word here. "Nice" is too generous.

Is +1.5 WAA better than -1.5 ? Yeah. Unless the guy can put up multiples of that with his bat, ala Posada in 2007 when he was good for 7 WAR with the bat. Molina is maybe a 2 WAR player, all things considered, and like I said, at age 37, this is probably NOT the time to try and double his workload. Especially if you don't want him to end up a 0 WAR player.

Most definitely not a "great" move. Maybe a potentially beneficial move. And potentially a complete bust.

 

[sinkhole]

I don't know man, the Molina Bros have a way of making it to the fall classic. I like the idea of one on my side.

 

[Deepster]

Then again, you spent the last offseason telling us all how great Manny would be for you. He hit .059 in 17 at bats.

Then you told us how great it was that Sam Fuld got a shot to play every day. He hit .240 on the year, becoming a 4th outfielder and defensive replacement after the 4th of July.

Cut the pollyanna bullsht. I'm begging you.

 

[zyron]

He can hit .180 and be a very valuable player. He is the best catcher in the game at framing pitchers. Jaso was awful behind the plate and Shoppach average. Molina will do wonders for Cobb, Hellickson, Moore and the other young pitchers. He will also groom the two young latin catchers Chirnos and Lobaton who will share time. I heard Molina on the radio in Tampa today he is a natural leader who says he signed with Tampa to win a championship. I love this move. Tampa now has plus defenders at all 8 postions.

Here is a Seattle Mariner writer who agrees.
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/11/28/2593077/jose-molina-tampa-bay-rays

You have to remember, he was on the Yanks for three years so I saw him play a bunch. Is he a good defensive backup catcher, yes. To count on him for any more than that isn't ideal especially at his age.

If you had said the Rays just did a decent move to get Molina to work with there young pitchers it would have been fine. Not, what a great move by the Rays, they outsmarted everyone in the game by getting the greatest defensive catcher in the history of the game using stats they engineered because they are geniuses.

 

[sinkhole]

If I was a Mets fan I would be grumpy too.

 

[sinkhole]

You have to remember, he was on the Yanks for three years so I saw him play a bunch. Is he a good defensive backup catcher, yes. To count on him for any more than that isn't ideal especially at his age.

If you had said the Rays just did a decent move to get Molina to work with there young pitchers it would have been fine. Not, what a great move by the Rays, they outsmarted everyone in the game by getting the greatest defensive catcher in the history of the game using stats they engineered because they are geniuses.

So you watched him for three years and the best you can come up with is he's "awful'. Based on the independent stats provided wouldn't you say Molina is a great defensive catcher? I'm guessing 50 starts maybe 40 cameos as a late inning sub. I'm not expecting Bench or Fisk but he will be an improvement over Jaso and Shopp. The Rays improved with this move for under 2 mill per.

 

[Deepster]

So you watched him for three years and the best you can come up with is he's "awful'. Based on the independent stats provided wouldn't you say Molina is a great defensive catcher? I'm guessing 50 starts maybe 40 cameos as a late inning sub. I'm not expecting Bench or Fisk but he will be an improvement over Jaso and Shopp. The Rays improved with this move for under 2 mill per.

If he gets 50 starts and maybe 40 cameos as a defensive sub, how much difference is he going to make? It's not like he can frame every 5th pitch and change a call all season long. If a runner gets a jump on the pitcher when it just so happens to be the day he starts, is it going to matter that he throws a few extra runners out?

Jesus, he's a solid backup option. Stop creaming your jeans over every move the Rays make.

 

[sinkhole]

Deep , my main man Jose is prepared to catch 162......

"I’ll be ready to catch 162 games. I’ll be ready to go every day," he said. "When you become a backup catcher you have to be ready to go every day even though you don’t play every day. If Joe needs me for 162, I’ll be ready for 162. If he needs me for 80, I’ll be ready for 80." http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...na_to_help_show_way/srvc=sports&position=also

I love this bit.....
"That’s what got me to the big leagues, and that’s why I’m still in the big leagues, because I can catch and throw. I’m never going to let that get away from my game. That’s my game. ... Defense is most important. That’s how you win games. And you see it and I see it with the way the Rays played in the past years."

 

[zyron]

So you watched him for three years and the best you can come up with is he's "awful'. Based on the independent stats provided wouldn't you say Molina is a great defensive catcher? I'm guessing 50 starts maybe 40 cameos as a late inning sub. I'm not expecting Bench or Fisk but he will be an improvement over Jaso and Shopp. The Rays improved with this move for under 2 mill per.

He has a career offensive WAR that is negative. His career WAR is 3.4 over 12 seasons, or about .3 per year. Yes, that is the definition of awful.

 

[sinkhole]

Z, get off Molina for a moment. Did you read the framing article? Pretty interesting stuff. I would be interested to see the same study done for umpires.

 

[Cheddie]

I loved Jose as a back-up to Posada with the Yankees, and the pitchers apparently loved him too. The problem was he barely hit over .200 the last two years in NY. And time is not on Jose's side.

 

[Deadrody]

I don't know man, the Molina Bros have a way of making it to the fall classic. I like the idea of one on my side.

That's fine. I don't disagree with that. Doesn't make it a "great" move.

 

[Deadrody]

Deep , my main man Jose is prepared to catch 162......

"I’ll be ready to catch 162 games. I’ll be ready to go every day," he said. "When you become a backup catcher you have to be ready to go every day even though you don’t play every day. If Joe needs me for 162, I’ll be ready for 162. If he needs me for 80, I’ll be ready for 80." http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...na_to_help_show_way/srvc=sports&position=also

I love this bit.....
"That’s what got me to the big leagues, and that’s why I’m still in the big leagues, because I can catch and throw. I’m never going to let that get away from my game. That’s my game. ... Defense is most important. That’s how you win games. And you see it and I see it with the way the Rays played in the past years."

So are you now going to believe every guy in his late 30s is "ready" to play 162 games just because he SAYS so ? Fact is the only time Molina has ever played more than 78 games was because of Posada's injury in 2008 and that was, uncoincidentally, the worst offensive year of his career.

 

[Deadrody]

Z, get off Molina for a moment. Did you read the framing article? Pretty interesting stuff. I would be interested to see the same study done for umpires.

I would bet the umpire's union would do everything in their power to keep that kind of info from going public.

 

[Scoe]

its a decent move not a great move

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4v1ICQK7WpY

 

[sinkhole]

I like all the talk about the imiment decline of Molina due to his age which is 36. Its not uncommon at all for back up catchers to play into there early 40's. Meanwhile the Al East champs will wheel out a SS who will be 38 in June and a third baseman who will be 37 in July. With first based blocked by Tex, DH by Jesus and LF by Gardner watching these two decline with no safety net will be a sad spectacle indeed.

 

[tykurez]

I like all the talk about the imiment decline of Molina due to his age which is 36. Its not uncommon at all for back up catchers to play into there early 40's. Meanwhile the Al East champs will wheel out a SS who will be 38 in June and a third baseman who will be 37 in July. With first based blocked by Tex, DH by Jesus and LF by Gardner watching these two decline with no safety net will be a sad spectacle indeed.

/thread ... this is laughable.

 

[Scoe]

I like all the talk about the imiment decline of Molina due to his age which is 36. Its not uncommon at all for back up catchers to play into there early 40's. Meanwhile the Al East champs will wheel out a SS who will be 38 in June and a third baseman who will be 37 in July. With first based blocked by Tex, DH by Jesus and LF by Gardner watching these two decline with no safety net will be a sad spectacle indeed.

decline when has Molina ever been anything more then decent your really going to compare him to Jeter and Arod your funny. You need to relax and put the dick down.