Another awesome Little Mo stat

[huskybill]

Mo most often gets lauded, as she should, for her amazing assist to turnover ratio. But she also has a great steal to turnover ratio, a ratio I modestly call the huskybill ratio since I'm the only one who seems to care about it. She has 65 steals t0 36 turnovers for a 1.8 ratio. Other fine huskybill ratios are by Lefty Banks 1.4 ; Bria 1.14 and Saniya 1.12. And Stewie has 39 steals and 40 turnovers, not bad for a 6-4 player.

 

[Suebird10fan]

You are not alone Bill! If you get around to researching HBRs of players on other teams please post.

 

[Fiftyish]

In this stats driven world I commend you for coming up with a really cool stat.

 

[Suebird10fan]

Ok I looked at top 5 teams. Very few HBRs over 1 and none close to Mo. The ones >1 among Duke, Stfd, ND, Baylor were
Chloe Wells a bit over 1.5
Nina Davis 1.5
Ariel Braker bit under1.5
M Cable 1.2
A Orrange bit under 1.2

All others on those teams below 1. 1.8 is clearly superb.

 

[Sonny44]

And Stewie has 39 steals and 40 turnovers, not bad for a 6-4 player.[/quote]

Half of her blocks are actually steals.

 

[huskybill]

And Stewie has 39 steals and 40 turnovers, not bad for a 6-4 player.

Half of her blocks are actually steals.[/quote]
Then she must have fewer blocks and rebounds than are reported.

 

[huskybill]

You are not alone Bill! If you get around to researching HBRs of players on other teams please post.

Glad to see you didn't wait for me to look up other teams' players. Ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell you how lazy I am. That's why I prefer you talk to only people who don't know me.

 

[UcMiami]

HB - great work! And to carry the torch forward there is also the B_S_ ratio or BSR - Block and Steals to Turnovers. While not bothering with the individual player numbers I have gone straight to the team numbers and the results are staggering and as we all suspected prove Uconn to be far superior to all other teams in B_S_ ! (With the posters on this board how could it be otherwise!)
Uconn HBR - 0.93, BSR - 1.68
Notre Dame HBR - 0.64, BSR 0.96
Duke HBR - 0.61, BSR 0.93
Stanford HBR - 0.51, BSR 0.82
Louisville HBR - 0.68, BSR 0.89
Tenn HBR - 0.46, BSR 0.71
Baylor HBR - 0.57, BSR 0.96

And just for a little perspective - last year Uconn had a HBR of 0.75 and a BSR of 1.18.

 

[Icebear]

Glad to see you didn't wait for me to look up other teams' players. Ask anyone who knows me and they'll tell you how lazy I am. That's why I prefer you talk to only people who don't know me.

Bill, someone who travels the world constantly for Travelocity can hardly be called lazy. It has amazed me how often you manage to make it home games given your schedule.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Wonderful and cutting-edge as the HBR stat is, hb, we should still take time to celebrate MoJeff's progress up the national charts in that boring and stale old A\TO ratio stat. She was still in a tie for 6th through the last NCAA posting with still one CT school player up with her (Gillian Abshire of Quinnipiac) all the way now to 3rd behind only (just a little) Caroline Coyer of Villanova and Niya Johnson of Baylor.

If she can cop both the HBR and A\TO crowns at the end of the season, all is wonderful.

 

[Icebear]

Capturing the HBR would raise her heads and shoulders above some people.

 

[huskybill]

Bill, someone who travels the world constantly for Travelocity can hardly be called lazy. It has amazed how often you manage to make it home games given your schedule.

IB, you're mixing me up with someone who's alive.

 

[Zorro]

1) It would be nice if someone who is inclined towards that sort of thing would get out the archives and calculate the HBR and the BSR ratios for some of our past heroines and teams, thus saving me the bother of doing it myself;
2) I think that the BSR should actually be designated the HBR' (or maybe HBR2), thus accomplishing the dual laudable purposes of giving credit to the originator of these interesting and long-overdue stats and creating confusion for the casual Duke or ND or other visitor to the BY who would have no idea what the hell we were talking about.

 

[Phil]

Name HBR
Jennifer Rizzotti 0.860
Barbara Turner 0.420
Ann Strother 0.394
Jamelle Elliott 0.344
Asjha Jones 0.470
Swin Cash 0.536
Renee Montgomery 0.758
Diana Taurasi 0.493
Svetlana Abrosimova 0.699
Rebecca Lobo 0.370
Kelly Schumacher 0.529
Shea Ralph 0.869
Sue Bird 0.877
Nykesha Sales 1.277
Kara Wolters 0.173
Charde Houston 0.610
Jessica Moore 0.464
Ashley Battle 0.740
Tina Charles 0.538
Maya Moore 1.017
Tamika Williams 0.806
Kerry Bascom 0.428
Stacy Hansmeyer 0.491
Mel Thomas 0.966
Tiffany Hayes 0.674
Edit to add:
Kiersten Walters 1.130
Kennitra Johnson 1.194

 

[DobbsRover2]

Phil, we know Kara was the black hole regarding assists, but are you sure you didn't overlook any of her steals? That's pretty dismal number.

But along with all the other top performers, cheers to Mel Thomas with a very nice score.

 

[Zorro]

Great job, Philster! Some of the player's stats are very, very surprising! I assume that you are now working on the HBR' stats. Some of the bigs, like Tina and Kara and Kelly ought to score significantly higher on that one.

 

[Phil]

Phil, we know Kara was the black hole regarding assists, but are you sure you didn't overlook any of her steals? That's pretty dismal number.

But along with all the other top performers, cheers to Mel Thomas with a very nice score.

Nope, 295 TOs to 51 steals for Kara

 

[Phil]

Honorable mention to Shelly Clymer, with the highest possible ratio. In 1982-83 she had one steal and drumroll... zero turnovers.

 

[Phil]

Here's one worth mentioning:
Kennitra Johnson with 129 steals and 108 turnovers

 

[Suebird10fan]

I checked out top 25 in country for stls per game. Turns out Gonzaga's Haiden Palmer has an HBR of 2.07! Someone else at 1.7 and everyone else 1.6 or below.

 

[UcMiami]

Great work Phil - an obvious recent one missing would be Kelly Faris - 1.04 (but then I always knew you were a closet Faris hater )

But this does point to the fundamental flaw in HuskyBills otherwise super stat - it seems to be weighted toward wings and guards who are more likely to get steals than there taller but perhaps less quick brethren - to add insult to injury all those poke checks the bigs do succeed in getting on entry passes tend to end up in the wing players hands and credited as steals for them. If the HBR ever becomes widely used, I fear the posts may stop trying to make those deflections in pretest to such a weighted average!
Thus the BSR comes to the fore - by adding the blocks which are typically more often performed by the post defenders than the wings you balance out the results and keep the posts engaged in your defensive schemes. Indeed now the pressure on the wings to stop allowing their players easy access to the lane where their competition (post players) are waiting to rack up easy stats. This should in effect improve team defense considerably (geno may want to start awarding playing time based on this stat alone and forget about all that 'practice earns playing time' non-sense.
Without further ado the BSR for the above list:
Jennifer Rizzotti 0.860 0.882
Barbara Turner 0.420 0.731
Ann Strother 0.394 0.791
Jamelle Elliott 0.344 0.411
Asjha Jones 0.470 1.067
Swin Cash 0.536 1.007
Renee Montgomery 0.758 0.826
Diana Taurasi 0.493 0.909
Svetlana Abrosimova 0.699 0.748
Rebecca Lobo 0.370 1.499
Kelly Schumacher 0.529 2.269
Shea Ralph 0.869 0.906
Sue Bird 0.877 0.931
Nykesha Sales 1.277 1.391
Kara Wolters 0.173 1.427
Charde Houston 0.610 1.035
Jessica Moore 0.464 1.022
Ashley Battle 0.740 0.833
Tina Charles 0.538 1.327
Maya Moore 1.017 1.707
Tamika Williams 0.806 0.991
Kerry Bascom 0.428 0.519
Stacy Hansmeyer 0.491 0.540
Mel Thomas 0.966 1.086
Tiffany Hayes 0.674 0.840
Edit to add:
Kiersten Walters 1.130 1.217 (too few games to qualify - 30 total?)
Kennitra Johnson 1.194 1.333 (too few games to qualify - 71?)
Kelly Faris 1.04 1.309
Rita Williams 0.950 0.992
Caroline Doty 0.723 0.894
Maria Conlon 0.725 0.826
Swanier 0.964 0.980

Kelly Schumacher jumps to the head of the class because she only had 104 total turnovers in 132 games and 1832 minutes played with 181 blocks and 55 steals. Maya not surprisingly is the best of the rest, but of note is the spike for Lobo, Wolters, Charles, Houston, and of course steady Kelly Faris - figure out what ever stat you want she will be there as one of the best.

So - too lazy to add previous years to current year but here are the current year stats for our starters:
Hartley 1.143 1.167
Jefferson 1.806 1.944
Stewart 0.975 2.475
Lewis 0.643 0.857
Dolson 0.351 1.439
And just for giggles - Kiah Stokes should obviously be getting a lot more playing time based on the highest recorded BSR so far:
Stokes 0.318 3.045

 

[DobbsRover2]

But this does point to the fundamental flaw in HuskyBills otherwise super stat - it seems to be weighted toward wings and guards who are more likely to get steals than there taller but perhaps less quick brethren - to add insult to injury all those poke checks the bigs do succeed in getting on entry passes tend to end up in the wing players hands and credited as steals for them.

That is probably the way the steal will be recorded, but technically according to the statistics-recording rules, it is the player who pokes the ball away that should be credited with the steal. My guess though is that it is usually the player who secures the ball that is awarded the steal. Probably should be some type of assists-on-steals stat. And also note that if a an opposing player has a brain-fart and passes the ball directly to a Husky defender (as has happened on a couple of occasions this year), it should just be a turnover without any steal credited according to the rules. How often they're followed though is the question.

 

[huskybill]

Great work Phil - an obvious recent one missing would be Kelly Faris - 1.04 (but then I always knew you were a closet Faris hater )

But this does point to the fundamental flaw in HuskyBills otherwise super stat - it seems to be weighted toward wings and guards who are more likely to get steals than there taller but perhaps less quick brethren - to add insult to injury all those poke checks the bigs do succeed in getting on entry passes tend to end up in the wing players hands and credited as steals for them. If the HBR ever becomes widely used, I fear the posts may stop trying to make those deflections in pretest to such a weighted average!
Thus the BSR comes to the fore - by adding the blocks which are typically more often performed by the post defenders than the wings you balance out the results and keep the posts engaged in your defensive schemes. Indeed now the pressure on the wings to stop allowing their players easy access to the lane where their competition (post players) are waiting to rack up easy stats. This should in effect improve team defense considerably (geno may want to start awarding playing time based on this stat alone and forget about all that 'practice earns playing time' non-sense.
Without further ado the BSR for the above list:
Jennifer Rizzotti 0.860 0.882
Barbara Turner 0.420 0.731
Ann Strother 0.394 0.791
Jamelle Elliott 0.344 0.411
Asjha Jones 0.470 1.067
Swin Cash 0.536 1.007
Renee Montgomery 0.758 0.826
Diana Taurasi 0.493 0.909
Svetlana Abrosimova 0.699 0.748
Rebecca Lobo 0.370 1.499
Kelly Schumacher 0.529 2.269
Shea Ralph 0.869 0.906
Sue Bird 0.877 0.931
Nykesha Sales 1.277 1.391
Kara Wolters 0.173 1.427
Charde Houston 0.610 1.035
Jessica Moore 0.464 1.022
Ashley Battle 0.740 0.833
Tina Charles 0.538 1.327
Maya Moore 1.017 1.707
Tamika Williams 0.806 0.991
Kerry Bascom 0.428 0.519
Stacy Hansmeyer 0.491 0.540
Mel Thomas 0.966 1.086
Tiffany Hayes 0.674 0.840
Edit to add:
Kiersten Walters 1.130 1.217 (too few games to qualify - 30 total?)
Kennitra Johnson 1.194 1.333 (too few games to qualify - 71?)
Kelly Faris 1.04 1.309
Rita Williams 0.950 0.992
Caroline Doty 0.723 0.894
Maria Conlon 0.725 0.826
Swanier 0.964 0.980

Kelly Schumacher jumps to the head of the class because she only had 104 total turnovers in 132 games and 1832 minutes played with 181 blocks and 55 steals. Maya not surprisingly is the best of the rest, but of note is the spike for Lobo, Wolters, Charles, Houston, and of course steady Kelly Faris - figure out what ever stat you want she will be there as one of the best.

So - too lazy to add previous years to current year but here are the current year stats for our starters:
Hartley 1.143 1.167
Jefferson 1.806 1.944
Stewart 0.975 2.475
Lewis 0.643 0.857
Dolson 0.351 1.439
And just for giggles - Kiah Stokes should obviously be getting a lot more playing time based on the highest recorded BSR so far:
Stokes 0.318 3.045

But you miss the point of the steal divided by turnover ratio. Steals and turnovers ALWAYS denote a change of possession. Blocks do not.

 

[huskybill]

That is probably the way the steal will be recorded, but technically according to the statistics-recording rules, it is the player who pokes the ball away that should be credited with the steal. My guess though is that it is usually the player who secures the ball that is awarded the steal. Probably should be some type of assists-on-steals stat. And also note that if a an opposing player has a brain-fart and passes the ball directly to a Husky defender (as has happened on a couple of occasions this year), it should just be a turnover without any steal credited according to the rules. How often they're followed though is the question.

I think the player who pokes the ball away to a teammate should get the steal, but seldom does. But your second condition does not seem right. From a technical standpoint, how would you record the change of possession? It's not as though the ball was thrown out of bounds. Someone did catch the ball. And in spite of making this a Husky incident only, I've seen times when even a Husky could mess up a pass right to her.

 

[Phil]

Great work Phil - an obvious recent one missing would be Kelly Faris - 1.04 (but then I always knew you were a closet Faris hater )

I had Faris numbers handy but they did not have her last year, and I was too lazy to add in the last year.