And here's another thing wrong with the AAC

[David 76]

College is a lot of thing to a lot of people. It is no longer exclusively for the"well-rounded" liberal arts major. For many it is occupational training. But I hope the old liberal arts idea doesn't disappear.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Naw..the scores went up on the new test. It was a feel good move. 950 Sat's became 1050-1100. I just got out of teaching at the time and was paying attention.

FYI: It's happening again..google it.

I don't need to google it. I work in test prep and I know what's happening to the test. You're being glib. The average score went down in 2005, not up, because the test was made more difficult, which in turn happened because the scores were too high. It certainly wasn't a "feel good" move.

The reason they recentered the test in 1995 was because the scale was no longer functional. The gaps in the students getting high scores were much too large, and the lower ones were much too tight. It's a norm-referenced test, so all that number is supposed to mean is how you did relative to the other students taking the test.

 

[David 76]

Right. It is like an IQ of 100. It is, by definition, average. I do believe the broadening of the population taking the test required it to be renormed, not the growing ignorance of students.

 

[whaler11]

Normally I'd say had way too much to drink today but somehow pnow became the voice of reason.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Yep. The problem is worse than ever too. Texting and social media have reduced the level of written communication skills among young people to levels that are remedial in my opinion. The communications I receive from young business people are mind blowingly bad. The big thing I can't understand is how kids that can't read and write and are generally moronic, get decent SAT scores. Is the test easier now than it used to be?

I graduated HS in the early '90's and was a B student primarily because I was the 'dumb' kid in the AP classes sitting next to classmates of mine who all went to Ivy or little Ivy level schools with a Cal, Stanford, etc. thrown in. That said, I scored very high on my SAT's (pre-writing days) beating many of the same kids. Was I smarted than them? Heck no. Just a better standardized test taker. Not sure if today's SAT is the same.

Working in HR, the worst are not the kids. Generally, their ability to grasp new concepts, adapt to tech, and they have a more global experience than I did coming out of college are all positives. To me, it seems to me that education at least at the schools my company recruits from is more project, hands-on today that regurgitation of information. That is good . The flip side is that they are spoiled and expect immediate promotions off the bat without putting time in the trenches. Just look at the college environment is today. Everyone has singles, which used to be a Senior privilege when I was in Storrs, with state-of-the-art classrooms, gyms, and gourmet cafeterias. No Pier 17 Bake Haddock, which to me tasted like more Pier and less Haddock than it should have. That comes from their parents who gave every Jacob and Emily trophies no matter what because losing was just too mean. In the real working world, there is a lot of losing. Sorry. And when my company does not hire Jacob/Emily, the best is when their parents call up demanding to know why we did not hire them. My response - 'by calling, you just answered your own question.'

 

[joober jones]

There's a place for rote memorization in early childhood education and we shouldn't always dismiss it as old fashioned or oppressive. Not everything in life is supposed to be fun and there are times where you have to be the silent and receptive student, receiving information from a more experienced and learned instructor. It's scary how many young people these days can't answer simple multiplication problems without a calculator or find their way around their own hometowns without a GPS.

 

[MemphisBlues]

Finally, a thread like this one isn't about Memphis.

 

[David 76]

I graduated HS in the early '90's and was a B student primarily because I was the 'dumb' kid in the AP classes sitting next to classmates of mine who all went to Ivy or little Ivy level schools with a Cal, Stanford, etc. thrown in. That said, I scored very high on my SAT's (pre-writing days) beating many of the same kids. Was I smarted than them? Heck no. Just a better standardized test taker. Not sure if today's SAT is the same.

Working in HR, the worst are not the kids. Generally, their ability to grasp new concepts, adapt to tech, and they have a more global experience than I did coming out of college are all positives. To me, it seems to me that education at least at the schools my company recruits from is more project, hands-on today that regurgitation of information. That is good . The flip side is that they are spoiled and expect immediate promotions off the bat without putting time in the trenches. Just look at the college environment is today. Everyone has singles, which used to be a Senior privilege when I was in Storrs, with state-of-the-art classrooms, gyms, and gourmet cafeterias. No Pier 17 Bake Haddock, which to me tasted like more Pier and less Haddock than it should have. That comes from their parents who gave every Jacob and Emily trophies no matter what because losing was just too mean. In the real working world, there is a lot of losing. Sorry. And when my company does not hire Jacob/Emily, the best is when their parents call up demanding to know why we did not hire them. My response - 'by calling, you just answered your own question.'

We used to say the same thing about your generation. I find entitled workers and great workers at any age.

 

[boba]

There's a place for rote memorization in early childhood education and we shouldn't always dismiss it as old fashioned or oppressive. Not everything in life is supposed to be fun and there are times where you have to be the silent and receptive student, receiving information from a more experienced and learned instructor. It's scary how many young people these days can't answer simple multiplication problems without a calculator or find their way around their own hometowns without a GPS.

But does rote memorization teach one how to remember facts and figures? When you teach memory and recall techniques is rote memorization used as a method?
The military had a very important policy regarding job knowledge: it was more important to know where to find the information, and to properly apply it, than it is to regurgitate some imperfect impression. When I taught, that was the approach I used. Now that I manage a lab, where some of the reagents cost $$$, I really hope those doctorate holding idiot savants that compose the workforce follow the protocols, use the calculators, and don't rely solely "I think it goes like this."
Now mind you while I was a successful college instructor (TA) I failed miserably at the same task in high school.

 

[John]

We used to say the same thing about your generation. I find entitled workers and great workers at any age.

it's much more pervasive now.

 

[joober jones]

But does rote memorization teach one how to remember facts and figures? When you teach memory and recall techniques is rote memorization used as a method?
The military had a very important policy regarding job knowledge: it was more important to know where to find the information, and to properly apply it, than it is to regurgitate some imperfect impression. When I taught, that was the approach I used. Now that I manage a lab, where some of the reagents cost $$$, I really hope those doctorate holding idiot savants that compose the workforce follow the protocols, use the calculators, and don't rely solely "I think it goes like this."
Now mind you while I was a successful college instructor (TA) I failed miserably at the same task in high school.

It's surely not the best way for some things to be taught, my point was more that it shouldn't be condemned entirely and never used as a teaching method.

 

[Gregory Koch]

there's an inordinate amount of idiots with college degrees. I work with a few. Heck, I might one too.

I think you answered that for us.

 

[CallMeBruce]

I think you answered that for us.

For example, he used "amount" where he should have used "number."

 

[Pudge]

Cuts both ways.

Food at College is light years better than in our era. Housing ... you can't seem to see that the competition for these Students, for various Universities, will be that the Girls want their own Bathroom than a "gang" bathroom with 24 others. If you have resort style living at Clemson, you might see New England kids going there instead of Wesleyan (just saying). So, the progression of time has led to "entitled" kids who want & get more. Because, their parents forcefed them lots of things from Day 1 and then elementary school and then high school. It's just a different world.

Are young workers less hard working; less bright; less ... anything? I have taught University classes recently. It is just a different environment. I do think these kids - at a school comparable to UConn - were harder working. They fought for every minute and every question and all the Grade points.

I don't think the coming workforce is less prepared. Or less capable. Just different.