American Basketball System Is Breaking Down?

[JavaMan]

REASONS WHY OUR AMERICAN BASKETBALL SYSTEM IS BREAKING DOWN!
July 6, 2016 · passthaball · by Clay Kallam

Though Americans expect gold as a matter of course in international competition, the bronze medal result at the FIBA U17 World Championships in Spain didn’t come as a surprise to those who pay close attention to youth basketball here and around the world.

From the jump, it was clear the U.S. team was going to have trouble scoring, and coach Dori Oldaker – like many before her – couldn’t manage to devise a system that played to the strengths of her players. (Why American teams just don’t pick-and- roll the opposition to death against man-to- man remains a mystery to me; and why not screen on the ball against zones too?)

Then again, the Selection Committee has come in for some blame as well, as Oldaker had pretty much a brand-new group this year (as opposed to 2016) and got the same result. Continuity does help, especially for an American team that seldom practices together.

But the problems run deeper than just this result …

1) Parents
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2) Coaches
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3) Media
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[LINK]

 

[Checkmate]

The NBA has hurt boys/mens basketball for a long time. They think one on one basketball is the correct way to play. However, when you are allowed to play helpside defense it doesn't work. (defensive 3 seconds is a joke)

AAU is a problem as well...to many programs rely on great athletes, not great fundamentals.

 

[CocoHusky]

Comment from the Article: Why American teams just don’t pick-and- roll the opposition to death against man-to- man remains a mystery to me.
Response: Because American HS age kids (Boys & Girls) do not know how to run pick and roll. Isolation is all they know. Even on the best coached HS teams it is amazing how many players on a team a literally NOT involved in the offense.

 

[BroadwayVa]

The NBA has hurt boys/mens basketball for a long time. They think one on one basketball is the correct way to play. However, when you are allowed to play helpside defense it doesn't work. (defensive 3 seconds is a joke)

AAU is a problem as well...to many programs rely on great athletes, not great fundamentals.

I thought I was the only one who believed the run and gun, offense only of the NBA was not a great game. In my lost youth, I must admit that defense wasn't so great--but basketball to us meant "pick and roll". Strategy of coach (great ones against great ones) to me was a pleasure to behold. But the game has evolved into fast paced scoring--the fans demand scoring, winning is (almost) secondary to the viewers--
AAU, to my surprise when I was interested in "coaching AAU' had little time for practice and thus fundamentals--Geno has lamented that in the past, defense in the AAU appears to be a lost art, as Svetlana once said : I score, why do I need to play defense?
However--the U17 proved only one thing--those kids lost. To analyze this to it's finite-est point probably won't solve a thing

 

[mkwstar23]

The NBA has hurt boys/mens basketball for a long time. They think one on one basketball is the correct way to play. However, when you are allowed to play helpside defense it doesn't work. (defensive 3 seconds is a joke)

AAU is a problem as well...to many programs rely on great athletes, not great fundamentals.

the reason Uconn continues to dominate the women's game is coaching...good players help but good players go to Uconn and leave as great players...the one on one thing is killing the American game...and you don't see that at Uconn...they play a team concept or they don't play or transfer...our youth do not play a complete game...most concentrate on offense totally...on the U17 team with the exception of Ododa no one impressed me...Williams can play because i see her play in Arkansas and she showcased none of her skills...that falls on the coaches...where was the number one player in the class at?...Collier hardly played at all...i coached AAU basketball for many years and will be the first to tell you that it is killing the game...too many coaches working with kids that do not have the knowledge or the skill to help them improve...and of course pushy spoiled kids that think they are better than they are because their parents constantly tell them how good they are...if the system does not change then we will not be able to compete in international play and Uconn will continue to dominate because they recruit kids that buy into the best basketball system male or female in the country...just an opinion

 

[alexrgct]

The NBA is awesome. Last year was especially great with the Warriors' 73-9 season and playoff run that came within a game of a championship. And of course, LeBron and Cleveland did great things to win in such dramatic fashion. Meanwhile, MBB fans, including me, have been blessed to appreciate great players like Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, West, Elgin, Shaq, Duncan, Big O, Moses, and Hondo...among a whole host of others.

Obviously, I love WBB, but the men's game is fantastic. I think Stewie did great things for WBB these past seasons, but UNC-Villanova was great for the men's game in its own right. Hell, I'm just ecstatic to have a sport in which both men make great contributions.

On a related note, hey, did you know that there have been only two dual men's-women's college championships? How fortunate is any Nutmegger to be a huge basketball fan, to have appreciated folks like Emeka, Gordon, taurasi, Shabazz, Stewie, KML, Moriah, and Maria "living the Connecticut dream" Conlon?

Yes, I love men's and women's basketball. Can't wait for K and Geno to continue seerving our country in Rio...even if their service pales in comparison to that of Kibitzer.

 

[VAUConnFan]

It could just be that other countries are catching up, getting better. There is nothing wrong with the American game. It is still quite exceptional.

 

[Plebe]

It could just be that other countries are catching up, getting better. There is nothing wrong with the American game. It is still quite exceptional.

And specifically, Australia has invested heavily in centralized youth athletic development and has built an enviable system geared toward international competitiveness. Didn't they win the U17 gold medal game by like 30?

 

[CocoHusky]

And specifically, Australia has invested heavily in centralized youth athletic development and has built an enviable system geared toward international competitiveness. Didn't they win the U17 gold medal game by like 30?

Australia won the championship game by 24 against China and beat the US by 13. To your more significant point during the post game presser the U17 Australian coach spoke of consistency of style of play among the National team and U17-19 teams and spoke of "progression" of some of the his U17 team players to the national team. What refreshing concepts, consistent style of play and progression to the National team?

 

[donalddoowop]

It could just be that other countries are catching up, getting better. There is nothing wrong with the American game. It is still quite exceptional.

That's not true. If you know anything about basketball, it is easy to see the American game is deteriorating, especially in the men's game. The women's game is heading in the same direction except for a few exceptions.

 

[iri10]

Multiple people have laid blame on the American boy's / men's game for these doldrums the girls' teams are going through at the moment.

But I don't know. At the same time that America's U17 girl's team was struggling to shoot against anybody, the U17 boy's team was absolutely destroying its competition. Their closest game was against Lithuania, who they beat 98-70.

Could it be that they are figuring out what is needed on the boys' side, while the girls' side is lagging in understanding?

edit: NBA play is probably not all that corrupting anyway, these days. One of the most attention grabbing things in the NBA these days is, in fact, Golden State's prodigious 3-point shooting. There's an entire generation of youths growing up who have admiration or appreciation for the power of top tier jump shooting.

 

[intlzncster]

Not sure how much NBA everybody here is watching. But it's not a one-on-one iso-fest anymore. Totally different than 15+ years ago. Intricate sets, offenses, and defenses are the norm. Watching the Warriors play team basketball is something else. Perhaps it seems forced to the lay-WBB fan, but that's probably because the shot clock is so much quicker. And the players fundamentals are phenomenal.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The system broke down years ago. It's just more noticeable now as more nations concentrate on basketball. The AAU system is a total joke, with many players learning nothing other than one-on-one play and shooting at will.

 

[Icebear]

Excellent thread, these are all the problems I have watched as the game I love has struggled and obsessed with individualism instead of collective one on one. I see small signs of life in the team sport I love but it is a fragile and tenuous spark.

 

[JoePgh]

The NBA has hurt boys/mens basketball for a long time. They think one on one basketball is the correct way to play. However, when you are allowed to play helpside defense it doesn't work. (defensive 3 seconds is a joke)

AAU is a problem as well...to many programs rely on great athletes, not great fundamentals.

I would be interested to hear why you think defensive 3 seconds is a joke. I think it is a good rule -- it prevents people like Brittney Griner or the 7-2 player that the Sun had a while ago (Margo Dydek) from just standing under the basket and blocking every attempt at penetration or inside scoring. Remember that the rule is that the defensive player can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless he or she is actively guarding someone, so it doesn't prevent defense against a offensive player posted up at either the high or low post -- and it doesn't stop the post defender from helping off her primary assignment if someone else has beaten her defender and is driving for the basket.

On the issue of team offense vs. one-on-one, I can see both sides of the issue. For one thing, good teams in the NBA and WNBA do play good team offense -- the San Antonio Spurs and the Minnesota Lynx, for example. Second, defenses are good enough in both leagues that the plays that UConn runs to perfection at the college level (which often rely on defenders being caught ball-gazing and losing their man) don't work against pro-level defenses. And third, when you have players like DT, Parker, Maya, Tina, and EDD, one-on-one play against the defender is often quite simply the highest-percentage offensive option. When Geno had players like that, he never discouraged them from beating their opponent one-on-one when the opportunity was there. In the South Carolina game last year, that was a big part of the UConn offense. Against South Florida in several games, Stewie dominated in the paint just like she was Shaq or Wilt.

I do agree that players should be taught team play as early as possible in their development, certainly at the U16 / U17 level. But AAU teams exist so that players can be seen by college coaches and evaluated on their individual talent -- everyone sensibly and accurately believes that team play on offense and defense can more readily be taught at the college level when there is enough practice time to allow for it.

 

[intlzncster]

I would be interested to hear why you think defensive 3 seconds is a joke. I think it is a good rule -- it prevents people like Brittney Griner or the 7-2 player that the Sun had a while ago (Margo Dydek) from just standing under the basket and blocking every attempt at penetration or inside scoring. Remember that the rule is that the defensive player can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless he or she is actively guarding someone, so it doesn't prevent defense against a offensive player posted up at either the high or low post -- and it doesn't stop the post defender from helping off her primary assignment if someone else has beaten her defender and is driving for the basket.

On the issue of team offense vs. one-on-one, I can see both sides of the issue. For one thing, good teams in the NBA and WNBA do play good team offense -- the San Antonio Spurs and the Minnesota Lynx, for example. Second, defenses are good enough in both leagues that the plays that UConn runs to perfection at the college level (which often rely on defenders being caught ball-gazing and losing their man) don't work against pro-level defenses. And third, when you have players like DT, Parker, Maya, Tina, and EDD, one-on-one play against the defender is often quite simply the highest-percentage offensive option. When Geno had players like that, he never discouraged them from beating their opponent one-on-one when the opportunity was there. In the South Carolina game last year, that was a big part of the UConn offense. Against South Florida in several games, Stewie dominated in the paint just like she was Shaq or Wilt.

I do agree that players should be taught team play as early as possible in their development, certainly at the U16 / U17 level. But AAU teams exist so that players can be seen by college coaches and evaluated on their individual talent -- everyone sensibly and accurately believes that team play on offense and defense can more readily be taught at the college level when there is enough practice time to allow for it.

Excellent post Joe.

 

[Roger G]

I think one aspect of the women's college game that makes it appear to be more team oriented than the pro game is the longer time on the shot clock. The shorter clock often makes the players force up shots that they would have passed on. I actually prefer the longer clock and the maneuvering it takes to get a high percentage shot. But the pro leagues have determined that fans want many shots. I think it can often result in the game looking ugly.

 

[Checkmate]

I would be interested to hear why you think defensive 3 seconds is a joke. I think it is a good rule -- it prevents people like Brittney Griner or the 7-2 player that the Sun had a while ago (Margo Dydek) from just standing under the basket and blocking every attempt at penetration or inside scoring. Remember that the rule is that the defensive player can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless he or she is actively guarding someone, so it doesn't prevent defense against a offensive player posted up at either the high or low post -- and it doesn't stop the post defender from helping off her primary assignment if someone else has beaten her defender and is driving for the basket.

On the issue of team offense vs. one-on-one, I can see both sides of the issue. For one thing, good teams in the NBA and WNBA do play good team offense -- the San Antonio Spurs and the Minnesota Lynx, for example. Second, defenses are good enough in both leagues that the plays that UConn runs to perfection at the college level (which often rely on defenders being caught ball-gazing and losing their man) don't work against pro-level defenses. And third, when you have players like DT, Parker, Maya, Tina, and EDD, one-on-one play against the defender is often quite simply the highest-percentage offensive option. When Geno had players like that, he never discouraged them from beating their opponent one-on-one when the opportunity was there. In the South Carolina game last year, that was a big part of the UConn offense. Against South Florida in several games, Stewie dominated in the paint just like she was Shaq or Wilt.

I do agree that players should be taught team play as early as possible in their development, certainly at the U16 / U17 level. But AAU teams exist so that players can be seen by college coaches and evaluated on their individual talent -- everyone sensibly and accurately believes that team play on offense and defense can more readily be taught at the college level when there is enough practice time to allow for it.

The NBA is entertainment and a very successful business, in part because fans want to see a YouTube moment ... a dunk, or a great crossover. When you minimize defense, it is just playground basketball. Playing helpside defense is part of the real game, so is dribbling before you take 3 or 4 steps .

I love watching UConn play because if someone scores against them they normally earned it by beating 1,2, or 3 players. They did not score because the rules require the Red Sea to part and someone shoots an uncontested lay-up.

 

[Justavisitor]

Not sure how much NBA everybody here is watching. But it's not a one-on-one iso-fest anymore. Totally different than 15+ years ago. Intricate sets, offenses, and defenses are the norm. Watching the Warriors play team basketball is something else. Perhaps it seems forced to the lay-WBB fan, but that's probably because the shot clock is so much quicker. And the players fundamentals are phenomenal.

I agree with this. I continue to hear these criticisms from women's basketball fans, but it simply not true. You can go back to the Detroit Pistons with no superstars and a collective unit of players all on the same page and playing the game the right way under Larry Brown and you see intricate sets. The San Antonio Spurs are very well coached with an intricate system in place and that has led to much success. There are too many teams to note.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I agree with this. I continue to hear these criticisms from women's basketball fans, but it simply not true. You can go back to the Detroit Pistons with no superstars and a collective unit of players all on the same page and playing the game the right way under Larry Brown and you see intricate sets. The San Antonio Spurs are very well coached with an intricate system in place and that has led to much success. There are too many teams to note.

While I don't enjoy the NBA, I have never doubted what you say. Likewise in the WNBA. When players get to create one-on-one it is often a great deal of team effort to put them in that position. I will say that defense is hampered somewhat by the rules, at least in my opinion.

The issue is that, for those like myself that just don't enjoy the sport, we don't see enough of it to appreciate what you are referring to. I have absolutely no objection to dunks and all the rest of it, it just doesn't interest me as a spectator sport. Don't know why, it just doesn't. But it isn't because I don't think they are highly skilled players often playing within specific schemes.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I would be interested to hear why you think defensive 3 seconds is a joke. I think it is a good rule -- it prevents people like Brittney Griner or the 7-2 player that the Sun had a while ago (Margo Dydek) from just standing under the basket and blocking every attempt at penetration or inside scoring. Remember that the rule is that the defensive player can't be in the lane for more than 3 seconds unless he or she is actively guarding someone, so it doesn't prevent defense against a offensive player posted up at either the high or low post -- and it doesn't stop the post defender from helping off her primary assignment if someone else has beaten her defender and is driving for the basket.

On the issue of team offense vs. one-on-one, I can see both sides of the issue. For one thing, good teams in the NBA and WNBA do play good team offense -- the San Antonio Spurs and the Minnesota Lynx, for example. Second, defenses are good enough in both leagues that the plays that UConn runs to perfection at the college level (which often rely on defenders being caught ball-gazing and losing their man) don't work against pro-level defenses. And third, when you have players like DT, Parker, Maya, Tina, and EDD, one-on-one play against the defender is often quite simply the highest-percentage offensive option. When Geno had players like that, he never discouraged them from beating their opponent one-on-one when the opportunity was there. In the South Carolina game last year, that was a big part of the UConn offense. Against South Florida in several games, Stewie dominated in the paint just like she was Shaq or Wilt.

I do agree that players should be taught team play as early as possible in their development, certainly at the U16 / U17 level. But AAU teams exist so that players can be seen by college coaches and evaluated on their individual talent -- everyone sensibly and accurately believes that team play on offense and defense can more readily be taught at the college level when there is enough practice time to allow for it.

I agree with almost everything except the last part. College is not the place where players should be learning the fundamentals of team offense and defense, because there isn't enough practice time to allow for it. Not when you are have to teach fundamentals. One of the big issues over the years that I heard CVS mention was that incoming players struggle on offense to recognize the defense that the opponent is running, for example. I think college is a little late to be teaching that.

 

[JoePgh]

The NBA is entertainment and a very successful business, in part because fans want to see a YouTube moment ... a dunk, or a great crossover. When you minimize defense, it is just playground basketball. Playing helpside defense is part of the real game, so is dribbling before you take 3 or 4 steps .

I love watching UConn play because if someone scores against them they normally earned it by beating 1,2, or 3 players. They did not score because the rules require the Red Sea to part and someone shoots an uncontested lay-up.

Again, I don't understand why you think that the defensive 3-second rule prevents or impedes help defense. I tried to explain why it doesn't. Kiah Stokes and Griner are proving that it can be done in the WNBA even with the rule. As a Sun season ticket holder, I can say that while there are a few defensive breakdowns every game, most WNBA baskets are very well-earned against very good defenses that certainly include the help side.

 

[stamfordhusky]

The NBA is entertainment and a very successful business, in part because fans want to see a YouTube moment ... a dunk, or a great crossover. When you minimize defense, it is just playground basketball. Playing helpside defense is part of the real game, so is dribbling before you take 3 or 4 steps .

I love watching UConn play because if someone scores against them they normally earned it by beating 1,2, or 3 players. They did not score because the rules require the Red Sea to part and someone shoots an uncontested lay-up.

That is not true at all. The rules allow helpside defense and NBA teams spend hundreds of hours practicing it. It is just a little more complicated when your center can't just stand in the middle of the lane like a statue. However that center can still stay in the lane for 3 seconds, leave momentarily, and immediately return. Also multiple defenders can alternate in the lane. And defenders can always cross the lane to double-team a player. Also, as previously noted, anyone who is guarding another player can stay in the lane indefinitely

 

[stamfordhusky]

Again, I don't understand why you think that the defensive 3-second rule prevents or impedes help defense. I tried to explain why it doesn't. Kiah Stokes and Griner are proving that it can be done in the WNBA even with the rule. As a Sun season ticket holder, I can say that while there are a few defensive breakdowns every game, most WNBA baskets are very well-earned against very good defenses that certainly include the help side.

Correct on all counts.

 

[easttexastrash]

Exhibit A: 3-on-3 competition. This format does not benefit these girls as it does not prepare them to play team ball. It is basically a chance for these players to see who can sprint to the rim the fastest and make a lay-up. Gone are the days when players spent hours upon hours in the gym working on their handle and shot. American ball has become more of a track-and-field event.

 

[easttexastrash]

Again, I don't understand why you think that the defensive 3-second rule prevents or impedes help defense. I tried to explain why it doesn't. Kiah Stokes and Griner are proving that it can be done in the WNBA even with the rule. As a Sun season ticket holder, I can say that while there are a few defensive breakdowns every game, most WNBA baskets are very well-earned against very good defenses that certainly include the help side.

The defensive three-second rule makes it too easy for players to get to the rim, so nobody has to work on their outside shot the way they used to. I would like to see more players who can shoot from outside but both the NBA and the WNBA have placed more importance on the "wow" factor. USA basketball has turned into an "individual" sport.

 

[UcMiami]

The defensive three-second rule makes it too easy for players to get to the rim, so nobody has to work on their outside shot the way they used to. I would like to see more players who can shoot from outside but both the NBA and the WNBA have placed more importance on the "wow" factor. USA basketball has turned into an "individual" sport.

I think that is a fallacy - the three point shot has become more prevalent as the years go by - I think the defensive three seconds just prevents a defense from camping inside and allows post players a little more freedom of movement.

My personal feeling is that the men's game has outgrown the dimensions of the court - basket height should be raised so that the much greater leaping ability of todays athletes is adjusted for, and dimensions of the court should be expanded to compensate for the much greater length and quickness of modern athletes. Physically the women correlate pretty closely to what the men were like in the 60's in comparison to the court which is why old timers like me enjoy the women's game so much - Maya and Candace, and Breanna being the Dr. Js of their game.

Back to the OP - I think the problem with the expansion of AAU travel super-teams is that it has cut into HS and AAU practice time - when the AAU teams first formed most were truly local and could actually practice as a team locally and the number of real travel tournaments were pretty limited. HS players played with their teammates and practiced with them most of the year. As the big AAU teams formed and started drawing stars from further away they became more like playground teams where five strangers form up to challenge another five strangers. It is an issue with the development of team play, and it has also cut into the practice time for the HS teams as the stars are leaving town for AAU tournaments frequently. A player like Kyla Irwin who played local AAU may not have gotten the same exposure that she would have had she tried to sign on with the Philly Belles but she also probably got more consistent coaching and better integration in team concepts.

I don't think the US system is 'broken', this is still only a single age group that has failed to win gold though in both cases (U16/U17) they appear to have been the second best team in the competition. Not every age group in the US or in any other country is equally talented so 'off years' will exist. And not every coaching selection made by USA Basketball is great, nor do they always get selections to the teams perfect. If next years U16 struggles as well, maybe changes need to be contemplated along the lines of permanent staffing like the boys system has made. I like the fact that they have opened the selection process to more players beyond their invitees, but perhaps they have expanded it too far - i like the idea of regional gatherings with maybe 35 selections than being gathered in Colorado.