Am I wrong in wondering why Griner has not dominated in the WNBA?

[Cuango]

While she has clearly not been a dud, I can’t help but think she should be easily a 20 and 10 player. Her career averages are 17.3 and 7.4 which seem pretty underwhelming for a player who is so gifted physically and though she has occasionally had monster games, she fairly often will have games where she has 8-14 points and 4-6 rebounds. I realize even great players have off days, but when I look at her overall body of work (including consistency) I just think she has underachieved. I have nothing against her as a player and person but was just wondering what others think?

 

[nwhoopfan]

I've definitely thought the same.

 

[Beemer]

No you're not wrong, I am surprised that she hasn't & doesn't dominate the game.

 

[BobbyJ]

You're absolutely right. She either never got or never took coaching in the critical younger years to utilize her obvious size and strength advantage. She should dominate this league but has never had it between the ears.

 

[chrissaran]

Baylor won only one championship while Britney was there, with Odyssey Sims. Yes, I understand the loss to Louisville was more than a little suspect.

 

[donalddoowop]

Baylor won only one championship while Britney was there, with Odyssey Sims. Yes, I understand the loss to Louisville was more than a little suspect.

What does that mean? Any more suspect than UConn losing to MSSt? I'm just wondering.

 

[bballnut90]

You're absolutely right. She either never got or never took coaching in the critical younger years to utilize her obvious size and strength advantage. She should dominate this league but has never had it between the ears.

If you watched her in college she was absolutely dominant and played with more determination IMO. The team choked in 2011 and 2013 but Kim did a fantastic job developing her over her 4 years. The defensive 3 second rule hurt her in the pros defensively so she couldn't just camp out in the paint, but she does seem to coast a lot more now and is prone to taking plays off or losing focus. You don't see her demand the ball enough. Early in her career she seemed a lot more active and I thought she'd for sure be an MVP by now. Seems to have lost a bit of that fire and has been quite critical of the league over the years. She's still very good and one of the best in the world, but someone with her size, mobility, coordination and strength should absolutely dominate the league.

 

[bballnut90]

While she has clearly not been a dud, I can’t help but think she should be easily a 20 and 10 player. Her career averages are 17.3 and 7.4 which seem pretty underwhelming for a player who is so gifted physically and though she has occasionally had monster games, she fairly often will have games where she has 8-14 points and 4-6 rebounds. I realize even great players have off days, but when I look at her overall body of work (including consistency) I just think she has underachieved. I have nothing against her as a player and person but was just wondering what others think?

Definitely agree....she puts up her numbers quietly too. It rarely feels like she's asserting her dominance, demanding the ball and taking over the game like we saw her do more frequently in college.

Griner has always been a pretty lousy rebounder. Doesn't block out or have good instincts for grabbing boards. Relies too much on her sheer size IMO.

Phoenix as a franchise has been quite underwhelming since their brilliant 2014 title season. In 2015, when D sat out, they still were pretty good at 20-14 and finished 2nd in the west. Since then, they've basically gone .500 with records of 18-16, 16-18, 20-14, and 15-19. Should've been MUCH better IMO with a trio of Taurasi, Griner and Bonner for most of those years.

 

[CTisballers]

Give her credit for them numbers while she’s played with DT Cappie DB Dupree and now Skylar so she don’t need to average 20 points but your right about the rebounds

 

[JellyBean]

No you are not but you also have to consider skill development, players motor, coaching philosophy, team dynamics, and the system coaches offer. On the surface, we see 6'8" and we are like, Oh man she should take over the league! But we don't consider the many other factors. I think overall, 17/7 is pretty dominate considering the team she plays on, the style of play, and the coaching.

 

[BostonCanuck]

To me the issue is coaching. Let's face it, Sandy Brondello has no clue how to utilize Griner. She has her floating out around the perimeter most possessions, and then taking a mid-range jump shot as the shot clock is about to expire. It couldn't be more ridiculous.

And it's been this way for years. Brandello had the two best players in the WNBA, and didn't make a single meaningful adjustment to the team's systems as season after season got squandered. Look at Taurasi too. She takes so many bad shots, rushed and contested. And her undisciplined fouls, including technicals and to prevent breakaways, continue unabated. These are all coaching issues.

Brondello is probably still there because she's liked by these these players, not because she's necessarily respected. And I can't believe this woman is the coach of the Australian Olympic team. Geno had Griner for merely a few weeks for the 2016 Olympics, and he turned her into an absolute beast in the starting lineup. But then it was back to Phoenix, and you all know the rest.

 

[BostonBay]

Phoenix offense has no rhythm & it definitely doesn't go through Griner. That's about 75% of the problem. Phoenix should have won more chips with their talent.

 

[BobbyJ]

Definitely agree....she puts up her numbers quietly too. It rarely feels like she's asserting her dominance, demanding the ball and taking over the game like we saw her do more frequently in college.

Griner has always been a pretty lousy rebounder. Doesn't block out or have good instincts for grabbing boards. Relies too much on her sheer size IMO.

Phoenix as a franchise has been quite underwhelming since their brilliant 2014 title season. In 2015, when D sat out, they still were pretty good at 20-14 and finished 2nd in the west. Since then, they've basically gone .500 with records of 18-16, 16-18, 20-14, and 15-19. Should've been MUCH better IMO with a trio of Taurasi, Griner and Bonner for most of those years.

IMO, not boxing out and rebounding, not being able to play defense without camping out in the paint, not playing hard all the time, and running your mouth at officials instead of running the floor comes down to lack of coaching, discipline, and BB IQ. That’s why UConn players are so sought after by pro coaches. If Griner had gotten coached hard in college as UConn kids do she’d be toying with the WNBA.

 

[BobbyJ]

To me the issue is coaching. Let's face it, Sandy Brondello has no clue how to utilize Griner. She has her floating out around the perimeter most possessions, and then taking a mid-range jump shot as the shot clock is about to expire. It couldn't be more ridiculous.

And it's been this way for years. Brandello had the two best players in the WNBA, and didn't make a single meaningful adjustment to the team's systems as season after season got squandered. Look at Taurasi too. She takes so many bad shots, rushed and contested. And her undisciplined fouls, including technicals and to prevent breakaways, continue unabated. These are all coaching issues.

Brondello is probably still there because she's liked by these these players, not because she's necessarily respected. And I can't believe this woman is the coach of the Australian Olympic team. Geno had Griner for merely a few weeks for the 2016 Olympics, and he turned her into an absolute beast in the starting lineup. But then it was back to Phoenix, and you all know the rest.

Absolutely.

 

[ShmiCO]

IMO, not boxing out and rebounding, not being able to play defense without camping out in the paint, not playing hard all the time, and running your mouth at officials instead of running the floor comes down to lack of coaching, discipline, and BB IQ. That’s why UConn players are so sought after by pro coaches. If Griner had gotten coached hard in college as UConn kids do she’d be toying with the WNBA.

This what I see too. I might remember this wrong, but didn't the WNBA add the 3s defense rule the year Griner came in? She was an enthusiastic paint camper in college.

 

[BobbyJ]

This what I see too. I might remember this wrong, but didn't the WNBA add the 3s defense rule the year Griner came in? She was an enthusiastic paint camper in college.

Possibly, I’m not sure about the timing on the rule. But how do you go through four years of college with a supposed HOF coach and not learn how to play defense outside the paint?

 

[Dooooooomed]

IMO part of it is Griner getting absolutely mugged possession after possession and refs swallowing their whistles because she's not easily displaced. Gotta be frustrating and gets in her head.

 

[southie]

Not all players have the same motivation and drive. You have to WANT it for yourself more than others want it for you . . .

 

[nwhoopfan]

IMO part of it is Griner getting absolutely mugged possession after possession and refs swallowing their whistles because she's not easily displaced. Gotta be frustrating and gets in her head.

Wait a minute, are we talking about Cambage now?

 

[bballnut90]

IMO, not boxing out and rebounding, not being able to play defense without camping out in the paint, not playing hard all the time, and running your mouth at officials instead of running the floor comes down to lack of coaching, discipline, and BB IQ. That’s why UConn players are so sought after by pro coaches. If Griner had gotten coached hard in college as UConn kids do she’d be toying with the WNBA.

I agree that coaching is huge, but you can't Griner's lack of dominance in the pros on Kim...you have to put it squarely on Griner. And if you blame any coach, it's Brondello. Griner in college was one of the most dominant players of all time. She improved by leaps and bounds during her time at Baylor. Kim last coached her 7+ years ago and Griner started out fantastic in the league before all of the Glory Johnson stuff and then just hasn't played with the same motor since then. It's easy to say, "oh she'd be a better pro if she went to UCONN" but at the end of the day it's ultimately on Griner and her own mindset/efforts for why she hasn't developed into the best player in the world.

 

[Florida Fan]

While she has clearly not been a dud, I can’t help but think she should be easily a 20 and 10 player. Her career averages are 17.3 and 7.4 which seem pretty underwhelming for a player who is so gifted physically and though she has occasionally had monster games, she fairly often will have games where she has 8-14 points and 4-6 rebounds. I realize even great players have off days, but when I look at her overall body of work (including consistency) I just think she has underachieved. I have nothing against her as a player and person but was just wondering what others think?

Gotta agree; no disrespect intended, but my expectations were that Griner would dominate in any league. If we look back to the NCAA tournament, Louisville putting a ring of players around her, on the way to their improbable victory, and an open door to the Huskies dominant run, that may have been a window on Griner's frustrating performances. You would think, pivot left, pivot right, short jumper and an occasional dunk. Who could stop her? Of course, if the refs let the defenders maul her, that could put a crimp in anyone's offense.

 

[bballnut90]

Possibly, I’m not sure about the timing on the rule. But how do you go through four years of college with a supposed HOF coach and not learn how to play defense outside the paint?

The rule was implemented in winter of her senior year...teams voted on it, and every single team besides Phoenix was in favor of it. It was jokingly called, The Britney Griner Rule.

And there was zero reason for 6-8 Griner to play any perimeter defense at Baylor. There was no 3 second rule and she set the all time record for career blocks. Baylor was consistently among the best defensive teams in the nation because of Griner while she was there. She was a 4x Big 12 DPOY and 3x National DPOY. Kim utilized her perfectly on defense for what Baylor needed.

The pro game also wasn't nearly as outside oriented back then. You didn't commonly see bigs stepping out and shooting 3pt shots like you do now. There was also no 3 second rule so it isn't as if Kim could have prepared her for it.

If you're questioning Kim's ability to coach post defense outside of the paint, look at how well she did with Cox who developed into an absolute monster defensively, closing out on shooters to the 3pt line in college and dominating opponents who went up against her one on one in the paint. It's a different game now than it was 7 years ago.

 

[hjoerring]

To me the issue is coaching. Let's face it, Sandy Brondello has no clue how to utilize Griner. She has her floating out around the perimeter most possessions, and then taking a mid-range jump shot as the shot clock is about to expire. It couldn't be more ridiculous.

And it's been this way for years. Brandello had the two best players in the WNBA, and didn't make a single meaningful adjustment to the team's systems as season after season got squandered. Look at Taurasi too. She takes so many bad shots, rushed and contested. And her undisciplined fouls, including technicals and to prevent breakaways, continue unabated. These are all coaching issues.

Brondello is probably still there because she's liked by these these players, not because she's necessarily respected. And I can't believe this woman is the coach of the Australian Olympic team. Geno had Griner for merely a few weeks for the 2016 Olympics, and he turned her into an absolute beast in the starting lineup. But then it was back to Phoenix, and you all know the rest.

Isn't the Aussies one of the few power houses that have consistently challenged the Americans? Perhaps a little bit more clarification is needed on Sandy B. At this level coaches should not be teaching motivation and respect for refs. <<<<JellyBean has some good points. And now there is Diggins and Co!

 

[veryolddog]

I think that Taurasi spoke to this issue some time ago when they were both playing for a Russian team. She had to keep prodding Grineer to show up to play. This sounds like it is, clearly, a personal issue with this woman. She may be doing what is necessary to perform her job but not going all out. If my memory is not correct about this, one of our elitist prognosticators can pounce on this.

 

[Steelerone]

First of all given the relative size of women as compared to men a 6' 8" is astronomical for a female. And while her coordination is good, it is definitely not in the range of a Breanna Stewart or lisa Leslie. I'm not sure how much of a coaching impact Kim Mulkey had on Brittany but I do know, from her statements, that she was unhappy at Baylor because of the culture at the school and this possibly had some impact of her while on the court. A great deal of an athlete's success comes from their aggressive nature and not all of them are equal in this area.