Ah, for the gritty games of yesteryear

[DobbsRover2]

Tonight UConn will play Tulane, and the final margin will likely be pretty extreme, like all of the conference games this year. And the question is as John A. asks in his Courant piece today, "Is the level of competition in the AAC getting his team prepared for the NCAA Tournament?" And tomorrow there will be a couple of posts on the BY about pathetic-abysmal-terrible-worthless-high-school-level conference. Truly the dark clouds of doom approacheth.

If only UConn could return to the good old days of those late season Feb. 23 games when the women were women, the tough got tougher, and champions were forged. From its first NC in 1995, the Huskies played seven games on this 2/23 date, four of them in years that would culminate in an NC triumph. The results of these knock-down, eye-gouging, ear-chewing brawls were: 1999, 105-43 over Syracuse; 2000, 100-28 over West Virginia; 2001, 118-44 over St. John's; 2002, 80-47 over Rutgers; 2003, 77-59 over Notre Dame, 2008, 98-41 over St. John's; 2013, 90-30 over Seton Hall. Battles till the final second with the old tough rivals like Notre Dame and Rutgers and a few of those other Big East squads that pulled an occasional nasty upset on the Huskies.

And yeah I know that that 53.7 average winning margin for the seven games may not look as close as it really was, but you ask any of the old guard golden-age sentimentalists about how tough the games were and I'm sure they will tell you that the NCs couldn't have been won without them, and that it is woe to the Huskies in these current dark days when there is no chance to get the proper grit in the diet or find those six foot drifts of icy horror through which to slog home from school.

Bring back those crazy, hazily recalled games of old. It's the only way for the Huskies to hang ten.

 

[CocoHusky]

Tonight UConn will play Tulane, and the final margin will likely be pretty extreme, like all of the conference games this year. And the question is as John A. asks in his Courant piece today, "Is the level of competition in the AAC getting his team prepared for the NCAA Tournament?" And tomorrow there will be a couple of posts on the BY about pathetic-abysmal-terrible-worthless-high-school-level conference. Truly the dark clouds of doom approacheth.

If only UConn could return to the good old days of those late season Feb. 23 games when the women were women, the tough got tougher, and champions were forged. From its first NC in 1995, the Huskies played seven games on this 2/23 date, four of them in years that would culminate in an NC triumph. The results of these knock-down, eye-gouging, ear-chewing brawls were: 1999, 105-43 over Syracuse; 2000, 100-28 over West Virginia; 2001, 118-44 over St. John's; 2002, 80-47 over Rutgers; 2003, 77-59 over Notre Dame, 2008, 98-41 over St. John's; 2013, 90-30 over Seton Hall. Battles till the final second with the old tough rivals like Notre Dame and Rutgers and a few of those other Big East squads that pulled an occasional nasty upset on the Huskies.

And yeah I know that that 53.7 average winning margin for the seven games may not look as close as it really was, but you ask any of the old guard golden-age sentimentalists about how tough the games were and I'm sure they will tell you that the NCs couldn't have been won without them, and that it is woe to the Huskies in these current dark days when there is no chance to get the proper grit in the diet or find those six foot drifts of icy horror through which to slog home from school.

Bring back those crazy, hazily recalled games of old. It's the only way for the Huskies to hang ten.

Dobbs,
I didn’t see the sarcasm button anywhere on your post so it is kind of hard to tell. If the gist of your post is that the Old big East included as many blowouts as the current AAC that is hard to argue with. However, in terms of preparation for NCAA tournament I believe that the Old Big East was superior preparation for NCAA tournament. Especially the Big East Tournament. I am defining competitive to be a single digit loss or win in the Big east Tournament. From 2001- 2013 UCONN played in only 3 BE Tournaments (2010, 2009, and 2005) which failed to yield a competitive game by this definition. The 09’ & ’10 teams were juggernauts so wins by +15 over ND & +30 Villanova were understandable. The 2005 margin of victory over ND was +13, however this same team lost to ND earlier in the year by 6 points- my guess is that UCONN had revenge on their minds so I am dubbing this a competitive game.
’01=+2 ND: ’02 = + 4 Villanova: ’03 = -4 Villanova: ’04 = -3 BC: ’06 = +6 WV: ’07 = - 8 Rutgers: ’08 = +6 Louisville: ’11 = + 9 ND: ’12 = + 9 ND: ’13 = -2 ND were all competitive games in BE tournament for UCONN.
Last year in the last month of the season & with Louisville still in the same conference, UCONN played 2 games that were +20. I don’t even see a +20 game on the horizon in this configuration of AAC. Will this matter to UCONN preparation for the tournament? Not for the next couple of seasons, because UCONN ’15 & ’16 teams are very much like UCONN of ’09 & ’10 teams - much better than the rest of the field. In ’17-… it might matter, especially if the “We need parity in WCBB” crowd get their way.

 

[meyers7]

Dobbs,
I didn’t see the sarcasm button anywhere on your post so it is kind of hard to tell.

Really?? Would this help?

 

[Stewie Fan]

Just a question I have that someone may answer. Can UCONN play as an independent? I know they are tide in with the AAC but NDame is tied in with the ACC and their football team pretty much plays as an independent. I know the men's bball and football teams have teams that can compete with them but UCONN's WBB is a whole different story. Just curious if they could reach an agreement where they could play 5 or 6 AAC teams a year and schedule the rest of the year as an independent? I'm sure there would be 25 teams out there who would play them in a OOC game and if they are ranked all year they would still get into the NCAA Tournament.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The money is not there for any independent not named Notre Dame in any sport, and NJIT is trying desperately to find a home for itself. The AAC money is not great, but it's better than no conference affiliation, not to mention the problem of the football team especially and also the other sports finding opponents and rivalries. Not an option.
------
And why should sarcasm or no sarcasm be the question? The point is the numbers, and the same type of average could be put together for just about any other date in UConn history. Time after time this year we hear about how pathetic the AAC is in comparison with the other big conferences or the one that UConn used to be involved with. Fact is though that the Big East was not stacked with a huge amount of teams that could get to the FF ever, and it did not become the indisputable best and pretty deep conference that could get 9 teams into the Tournament until the final years of the old BEast. And even then there was always the comments that unless a team was in the top 10 or top 20 they were not a challenge and could not help UConn prepare for March.

How much did having a tough Rutgers team to play against in the 2004-05 to 2007-08 years help prepare UConn for the Tourney? Not sure. Every game provides some degree of challenge to the execution level Geno seeks for the team, but the major part of it is forged in the practices. That's where the champions are made more than getting whacked around in a RAC game that tested UConn's limits but not necessarily a lot of insight into how to play in the Tourney against much different teams. And the benefits of getting physically beat up in a game have their limits, and sometimes can be crippling.

But yeah, the litany of dirges about the conference margin will continue in any case.

 

[CocoHusky]

The point is the numbers, and the same type of average could be put together for just about any other date in UConn history.

The numbers have been put together-Vowel did them, they just don't agree with your statement.

Looking at UConn victory margin in conference since 1991. As you can see, this year is stratospheric. Not just in average points, but also not a single game within 30 pts.
View attachment 8505
Yellow = Undefeated in conference & NC
Blue = NC
Red = Undefeated in conference

 

[Stewie Fan]

The money is not there for any independent not named Notre Dame in any sport, and NJIT is trying desperately to find a home for itself. The AAC money is not great, but it's better than no conference affiliation, not to mention the problem of the football team especially and also the other sports finding opponents and rivalries. Not an option.
------
And why should sarcasm or no sarcasm be the question? The point is the numbers, and the same type of average could be put together for just about any other date in UConn history. Time after time this year we hear about how pathetic the AAC is in comparison with the other big conferences or the one that UConn used to be involved with. Fact is though that the Big East was not stacked with a huge amount of teams that could get to the FF ever, and it did not become the indisputable best and pretty deep conference that could get 9 teams into the Tournament until the final years of the old BEast. And even then there was always the comments that unless a team was in the top 10 or top 20 they were not a challenge and could not help UConn prepare for March.

How much did having a tough Rutgers team to play against in the 2004-05 to 2007-08 years help prepare UConn for the Tourney? Not sure. Every game provides some degree of challenge to the execution level Geno seeks for the team, but the major part of it is forged in the practices. That's where the champions are made more than getting whacked around in a RAC game that tested UConn's limits but not necessarily a lot of insight into how to play in the Tourney against much different teams. And the benefits of getting physically beat up in a game have their limits, and sometimes can be crippling.

But yeah, the litany of dirges about the conference margin will continue in any case.

Notre Dame is in the ACC in all sports but football. I think they have to schedule 5 games a year against ACC teams and then play whoever they want. I'm not saying that UCONN breaks from AAC in all sports, just WBBall. They could play 5 or 6 games a year with AAC teams and then schedule who they want. I think if their schedule was tougher it would put a lot of more fans in the seats. From a monetary standpoint I don't think they would lose any TV coverage, if anything I think they would get more.

 

[sarals24]

It's actually hilarious that we keep having this same argument, because I've read on a few other boards how UConn's easy conference schedule is unfair because they don't get banged up like other teams in tougher conferences. You can argue it both ways, I suppose.

But until UConn starts losing national championships (don't see that happening in the next two years) or losing out on recruits (next year's class begs to differ) I just don't think it matters.

They come to play with the best and for the best.

 

[KnightBridgeAZ]

I'll just add that as an outsider I also find it hilarious. There are teams that might be negatively impacted if they were in a really bad conference in terms of preparation, etc. but that isn't Geno's team because I know that isn't how he preps his team.

I'll never forget his locker room speech recorded at the WBB hall of fame - UConn was beating (the crap out of) a conference opponent and his comment was "they wish they had our problems" and went on to point out what UConn wasn't doing that he wanted done.

 

[DobbsRover2]

The numbers have been put together-Vowel did them, they just don't agree with your statement.

Put the numbers together for what? Conference blow-out degree of difficulty or something? We've certainly seen lots of conference-bashing stats thrown on the BY through the years of the NC hunts, and it's all a matter of degree as to how bad UConn's home was. Does it make you relieved and happy if UConn only wins the games by 30 points? Is that a lot better than 40 or 50, especially when you have a bench this year that keeps pushing up the margin until the end?

I just gave you the numbers for seven games in the past related to a particular day in UConn history. You're free to dispute them or say they mean nothing. The margin for other days would be different. A week ago, on 2\16 the margin would have been cut in half to full-of-grit 26.8 average margin. But as one who was here back in the early 2000s, I can tell you that any year when UConn was only winning games by 26 point margins were still full of fans carping about how bad the conference was and how the team had way too many blow outs to prepare them for the Tourney, unlike like say UTenn or Duke.

Again, as noted a half dozen times before, the AAC in its first set year has UConn at the top plus three other teams in the top 50 and one that's even in the top 20. Being in the top 50 will generally get you into the Tourney if you are a P5 conference, and though obviously the AAC is not extended that privilege, it does show that already the conference is moving back in the vicinity of BEast years in the early 2000s when they only got four teams in the tourney.

Yes we can carp about how much worse a 50 point margin is versus those wonderful 20-30-40 margins of the past, but likely better to lean back, watch the games, and enjoy the great ride.

 

[UcMiami]

I do think the old big east was an advantage in that you had teams that represented significantly different styles of play. You had Rutgers and at times West Virginia that were physical defenses and trapping, Villanova with very deliberate efficient passing offense, etc. so Uconn would be exposed to a wide variety of play. Competition wise, in any given year there would only be one or two teams that could actually hang with Uconn, but only if Uconn was not bringing its A game. ND for a couple of years (twice), and Rutgers for a few years as well were the only teams that actually could beat Uconn when they were playing well - and that worked out to only about half the championship seasons. And the same was true OOC playing the ranked teams from different conferences. There was one year that I believe Uconn had played the top four teams from the ACC and destroyed them all.

 

[sarals24]

I mean...UConn has beaten the top teams from (arguably) the top two conferences by what, 20+ points? So how much better are those conferences?

I do hope we resume the Baylor series, though.

 

[UcMiami]

And watching scores over the last week ... one thing that makes the SEC and Big12 and Pac12 look so tough and competitive is the wild inconsistency of a bunch of their teams. 'Anyone can win on any given night' just means the good teams play lots of bad games. KY is a stunning example of this ... beat Baylor, and lose to Ole Miss; beat Miss St and lose to LSU and Duke.

 

[triaddukefan]

And watching scores over the last week ... one thing that makes the SEC and Big12 and Pac12 look so tough and competitive is the wild inconsistency of a bunch of their teams. 'Anyone can win on any given night' just means the good teams play lots of bad games. KY is a stunning example of this ... beat Baylor, and lose to Ole Miss; beat Miss St and lose to LSU and Duke.

 

[UcMiami]

Sorry Triad - could keep myself from throwing that in after the latest debacle!

 

[CocoHusky]

I just gave you the numbers for seven games in the past related to a particular day in UConn history. You're free to dispute them or say they mean nothing.
Yes we can carp about how much worse a 50 point margin is versus those wonderful 20-30-40 margins of the past, but likely better to lean back, watch the games, and enjoy the great ride.

I never said your numbers "mean nothing" and it would be silly to dispute the score of games with Google being two clicks away. What I provided was data to counter-not dispute- that in the old Big East at Tournament time UCONN had competitive games where the margin of victory or defeat was less than 10 points. Competitive games IMO is better preparation for the NCAA tournament than not having competitive games. So yes a 20 point margin of victory would be more competitive than a 50 point margin of victory therefore better preparation for NCAAs . But please don't let my opinions over shadow this fact: In the old Big East Tournament for the years 2001-2013 UCONN had games where the margin of victory/defeat was less than 10 points in 10 of the 13 years.
PS I was going to enjoy the ride no matter what.

 

[DobbsRover2]

I never said your numbers "mean nothing" and it would be silly to dispute the score of games with Google being two clicks away. What I provided was data to counter-not dispute- that in the old Big East at Tournament time UCONN had competitive games where the margin of victory or defeat was less than 10 points. Competitive games IMO is better preparation for the NCAA tournament than not having competitive games. So yes a 20 point margin of victory would be more competitive than a 50 point margin of victory therefore better preparation for NCAAs . But please don't let my opinions over shadow this fact: In the old Big East Tournament for the years 2001-2013 UCONN had games where the margin of victory/defeat was less than 10 points in 10 of the 13 years.
PS I was going to enjoy the ride no matter what.

Oh sure, some years they did and some they didn't, and I'm sure that 9 point win over Virginia Tech for the 2001-02 team was the key to winning the NC that year, even though a few weeks later UConn beat the Hokies by 35 and the rest of the games in the BEast that year had as much grit in them as jello. And the teams in 2008-09 and 2009-10 got through their conference play without any single-digit heart-stoppers and still won NCs. The teams from 2005-06 through 2007-08 were less fortunate at both avoiding the grit and winning NCs.

How much grit in conference play do you require UConn to get in order to have a chance of winning a title? Last year I believe the closest win was by 17 points over Louisville, and though UConn didn't whomp the teams by a 50 point margin in the Tourney, I think they ended up doing okay. I don't know, maybe winning by 47 is bad for you, but UConn looked pretty good to me last night, and way better to me than if Tulane had held them to a 69-60 win.

 

[CocoHusky]

Oh sure, some years they did and some they didn't, and I'm sure that 9 point win over Virginia Tech for the 2001-02 team was the key to winning the NC that year, even though a few weeks later UConn beat the Hokies by 35 and the rest of the games in the BEast that year had as much grit in them as jello*1.

How much grit in conference play do you require UConn to get in order to have a chance of winning a title? Last year I believe the closest win was by 17 points over Louisville*2, and though UConn didn't whomp the teams by a 50 point margin in the Tourney, I think they ended up doing okay. I don't know, maybe winning by 47 is bad for you, but UConn looked pretty good to me last night, and way better to me than if Tulane had held them to a 69-60 win.

Not exactly 1. In the semi-finals of BE tournament on 3/04/02 UCONN beat Villanova by only 4 points.
Not Exactly 2. Baylor 11 point win was the lowest margin of victory for last year’s undefeated team. Last year just prior to the AAC tournament UCONN beat Louisville by 20 in Louisville. In the AAC tournament UCONN beat Rutgers by 26 in Semi-final game and again beat Louisville by 20 in the AAC tournament finals. With Louisville and Rutgers gone from the conference my expectation is that this year's AAC tournament will parallel the regular season scores with margin of victories (45-55) points.
Q: How much grit in conference play do you require UConn to get in order to have a chance of winning a title?
A: I'll take as much grit in the AAC tournament as I can get-just not expecting any. UCONN's chance of winning the title this year & next does not depend on grit from the AAC tournament- but now I just repeating myself because I've already said: "Not for the next couple of seasons, because UCONN ’15 & ’16 teams.........

 

[DobbsRover2]

Ah, okay you proved that conference grit is good, though I don't remember Baylor ever being in either the BEast or AAC. If you want to start shifting things over to the OOC discussion that has all sorts of ramifications factor into the conference schedule also, be your own guest, but the point here was to talk about the moaning about the terrible conference the Huskies are in and how the regular season games don't provide enough competition to get ready for an NC.

"Not exactly 1. In the semi-finals of BE tournament on 3/04/02 UCONN beat Villanova by only 4 points." What??? No clue what you're talking about here or where you found that. UConn beat Villanova by 44 points, 83-39. That doesn't seem like much grit to me, though obviously in later years Nova could be a tougher team to play against.

We can all dump out on the AAC teams this year and in the years to come. We can predict that UConn will always be winning the games by 50 points, just as most fans thought that UConn would beat Stanford by at least 20 earlier this year. Point is, these teams will get better and conference play will get tougher and UConn will always be filtering new players into the system that have some learning to do. I'm just enjoying the process and not worrying if the grits are overcooked.

 

[CocoHusky]

Ah, okay you proved that conference grit is good, though I don't remember Baylor ever being in either the BEast or AAC. If you want to start shifting things over to the OOC discussion that has all sorts of ramifications factor into the conference schedule also, be your own guest, but the point here was to talk about the moaning about the terrible conference the Huskies are in and how the regular season games don't provide enough competition to get ready for an NC.

"Not exactly 1. In the semi-finals of BE tournament on 3/04/02 UCONN beat Villanova by only 4 points." What??? No clue what you're talking about here or where you found that.

http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/conn-w-baskbl-sched.html

 

[CocoHusky]

 

[DobbsRover2]

No, please just stop it. No clue as to what you're pointing too. Check the UConn Media Guide, the UConn.com 2001-02 season results, the ESPN scores, or a hundred other sources. If you found some typo in a UConn publication (there are many many), that does not change the fact that UConn won the game 83-39. I've copied the first few paragraphs from the UConn article archive below. If you want to call the UConn sports office and tell them they are wrong, do so, but I'm not going to argue this stupidity further.

Huskies Blitz Villanova, 83-39, To Advance to BIG EAST Tournament Final



PISCATAWAY, NJ (Mar. 4, 2002) – Using a devastating early run, the No. 1 University of Connecticut women’s basketball team advanced to the final of the BIG EAST Tournament with an 83-39 win over Villanova in semifinal action Monday evening. UConn improves to 32-0 this season while the Wildcats fall to 19-10.


UConn blew open the game with a 19-0 run in the game’s first six minutes. Katie Davis finally put the Wildcats on the board with a jumper at the 13:38 mark, but the Huskies extended the lead to 33-7 with 7:45 remaining.


UConn converted on 14 of its first 16 shots and finished the first half with a blistering 66.7 percentage from the field. The Huskies also posted a convincing 22-5 advantage on the boards in the first stanza, as UConn rolled to the 49-17 halftime lead.

 

[Wally East]

From the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/03/05/s...men-routs-send-uconn-and-bc-to-the-final.html

COLLEGE BASKETBALL: BIG EAST WOMEN; Routs Send UConn and B.C. to the Final

PISCATAWAY, N.J., March 4— If you get kicks from watching old films of the Bears beating the Redskins by 73-0 or Secretariat winning the Belmont Stakes by 31 lengths, you would have loved the Connecticut-Villanova semifinal tonight in the Big East tournament.

After the first 6 minutes 1 second, UConn led by 19-0. Midway through the half it was 31-5. At the half, it was 49-17, and Diana Taurasi, UConn's precocious sophomore shooting guard, had only a point less than Villanova. After two minutes of the second half, the score was Taurasi 21, Villanova 20.

At the merciful end, Connecticut won, 83-39, Taurasi had 23 points and the pro-UConn crowd of 3,533 at the Louis Brown Athletic Center again marveled at how dominant this team can be.

 

[CocoHusky]

No, please just stop it. No clue as to what you're pointing too. Check the UConn Media Guide

You stop! I am pointing to the official UCONN website.
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/conn-w-baskbl-sched.html.
If the website is wrong it is wrong but I'm not making this up.

 

[Wally East]

You stop! I am pointing to the official UCONN website.
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/w-baskbl/sched/conn-w-baskbl-sched.html.
If the website is wrong it is wrong but I'm not making this up.

Just to be clear, that link points to the current schedule and results.

Here's a link to the boxscore on UConn's site.