AD: ECU will feel financial crunch next 2-3 years

[Guapo]

What do you mean by, "get too greedy?" They are not taking money from networks against the networks' collective will. The networks have agreed to pay the conferences 10s of $millions per year. Antitrust indicates monopoly. Those schools are not preventing any other group of schools from playing football, putting together a conference, or keeping those conferences to attempt to get the best possible deal for distribution.

The only thing that would shake up the status quo from my seat is if the P5 broke away from the NCAA. I think it would destroy them. I think they think that too.

The P5 will never (officially) break away from the NCAA.

The Boneyard is the only place I’ve heard this talked about as a Fait Accompli and it never ceases to boggle my mind.

 

[Husky25]

The P5 will never (officially) break away from the NCAA.

The Boneyard is the only place I’ve heard this talked about as a Fait Accompli and it never ceases to boggle my mind.

I would love for it to happen, but I agree.

Worst case scenario would be a forced break in all sports. Even a partial break of football only would result in a loss of amateur status. I've written in another thread that once they are forced to pay the players, the money dries up.

Besides, the major conferences have already broke away in football for all intents and purposes as it is. The NCAA does not control how FBS crowns their National Champion. That is how UCF was able to claim an unrecognized piece of it.

 

[Guapo]

I would love for it to happen, but I agree.

Worst case scenario would be a forced break in all sports. Even a partial break of football only would result in a loss of amateur status. I've written in another thread that once they are forced to pay the players, the money dries up.

Besides, the major conferences have already broke away in football for all intents and purposes as it is. The NCAA does not control how FBS crowns their National Champion. That is how UCF was able to claim an unrecognized piece of it.

They already have everything they want.

They have autonomy and they have a ready scapegoat in the NCAA.

The things people get angry at the NCAA about are things people should actually be getting mad at college presidents/ADs/Conference Commissioners/TV Exes about.

Emert is the highest paid push pin doll in history. His job, and the NCAA’s job, is to absorb all the criticisms that should be directed towards those listed above.

 

[billybud]

Does the AAU give broadcasting rights to ESPN, ABC, NBC, CBS, TNT, and TBS for billions of dollars?

No...but maybe advantage rights to billions in tuition...advantage rights in hiring professors...

 

[billybud]

The P5 have to be very careful of government scrutiny if they get too greedy. If the schools left behind sued on antitrust grounds in a class action suit, or the government stepped in first, I think they could prove that the "pros" as you call it, willfully conspired to keep other educational institutions from getting a piece of the pie. Just a thought.

It is a free market.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes.

The fact that P5 conferences have been successfull (individually by the way, not as a group), in contracting for televising their product may have to do with the perceived value of that product by the market.

Should the ACC demand the same money as the BIg Ten or SEC?

 

[Husky25]

They already have everything they want.

They have autonomy and they have a ready scapegoat in the NCAA.

The things people get angry at the NCAA about are things people should actually be getting mad at college presidents/ADs/Conference Commissioners/TV Exes about.

Emert is the highest paid push pin doll in history. His job, and the NCAA’s job, is to absorb all the criticisms that should be directed towards those listed above.

Agreed. If the P5 were to separate any further, the NCAA would have to fire the first shot. They won't because they make a pant load of money from them. The NCAA doesn't control the championship, but they have a hand in everything else.

 

[Guapo]

Agreed. If the P5 were to separate any further, the NCAA would have to fire the first shot. They won't because they make a pant load of money from them. The NCAA doesn't control the championship, but they have a hand in everything else.

The thing people have to understand is the NCAA are these schools. They aren’t really a separate entity. The NCAA are the colleges and the colleges are the NCAA.

 

[Husky25]

The thing people have to understand is the NCAA are these schools. They aren’t really a separate entity. The NCAA are the colleges and the colleges are the NCAA.

The NCAA is ALL of the schools, not just the 65 that make up the so-called P5, but I'm referring to the individuals who make up the administration of the NCAA. Particularly at the top.

Technically, the NCAA is a not-for-profit, but that doesn't mean they are forbidden from taking in revenue and they pay their own expenses before passing their bottom line proceeds to the member schools. The NCAA took in over $1 Billion in both 2017 and 2018. A quarter went to "Association-wide programs" ($207M) and Management and General expenses ($43M), of which Mark Emmert's salary is about 9% ($3.9M in 2017).

 

[billybud]

Guapo got it right...The NCAA is a non profit association representing member institutions.

The NCAA is UConn, Alabama, etc., not some borg entity.

 

[billybud]

NCAA represents several divisions...the Autonomous group is just a subdivision of FBS, Division I.

 

[CL82]

The Boneyard is the only place I’ve heard this talked about as a Fait Accompli

 

[Husky25]

Guapo got it right...The NCAA is a non profit association representing member institutions.

The NCAA is UConn, Alabama, etc., not some borg entity.

UConn, Alabama, etc. make up the NCAA's member institutions, but the organization is run by humans, who's self interest is not necessarily as altruistic as the organization's mission statement may indicate.

 

[Guapo]

UConn, Alabama, etc. make up the NCAA's member institutions, but the organization is run by humans, who's self interest is not necessarily as altruistic as the organization's mission statement may indicate.

That for sure! I hope what I said didn’t come across as trying to say the NCAA was good.

 

[huskyrob1]

It is a free market.

Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcomes.

The fact that P5 conferences have been successfull (individually by the way, not as a group), in contracting for televising their product may have to do with the perceived value of that product by the market.

Should the ACC demand the same money as the BIg Ten or SEC?

It's only a free market up to a point, just ask John D Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, Ma Bell, IBM, International Harvester, Jeff Bezos, or Jamie Dimon. If the P5 tries to monopolize college football as "freescooter" stated, and make billions every year, there will either be class action lawsuits or the government will step in. Why do you think there are salary caps in pro sports?

 

[billybud]

The P5 has already "monopolized" college football...at the viewing and at the money level.

Fait accompli for all practical purposes.

Hey...GM consolidated and pushed a lot of auto makers under.

Gone are the days when we had Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson, etc as auto manufacturers.

Football may become like beer....Once, Schlitz, Bud, Coors, Pabst, etc were what people drank on a national basis.

Now, there are a gazilliion local artisanal brews...Hayesville, NC (population 432) has three breweries. Locals love them but they don't get a national draw.

Maybe, with streaming and local production, football will become a more local and regional commodity.

 

[huskyrob1]

The P5 has already "monopolized" college football...at the viewing and at the money level.

Fait accompli for all practical purposes.

Hey...GM consolidated and pushed a lot of auto makers under.

Gone are the days when we had Studebaker, Packard, Nash, Hudson, etc as auto manufacturers.

Football may become like beer....Once, Schlitz, Bud, Coors, Pabst, etc were what people drank on a national basis.

Now, there are a gazilliion local artisanal brews...Hayesville, NC (population 432) has three breweries. Locals love them but they don't get a national draw.

Maybe, with streaming and local production, football will become a more local and regional commodity.

It hasn't monopolized college football yet to the degree "freescooter" envisioned, the existence of Rutgers, Vanderbilt, most of the PAC 12, Wake Forest, Kansas, and Texas Tech are evidence of that.

 

[hardcorehusky]

As the money has topped out - the next step is to trim the tree. How? Leagues decide to pay players - the smaller schools and private schools can't afford to make the payments and ultimately drop down in football to a more manageable league. Ultimately, the money is with 40 schools- and money rules when it comes to colleges.

 

[uconnbill]

36-44 schools rule college sports and they will break away in the near future. Why carry a Wake Forest, or a Rutgers when you don't have too.

 

[CL82]

36-44 schools rule college sports and they will break away in the near future. Why carry a Wake Forest, or a Rutgers when you don't have too.

Media markets?

 

[Husky25]

36-44 schools rule college sports and they will break away in the near future. Why carry a Wake Forest, or a Rutgers when you don't have too.

Did you read the last page or so? They are not breaking away. The NCAA holds a certain basketball tournament worth $900M/year. They would not risk losing their piece of that pie, while completely revamping their business model, and having to pay their football players at the same time. The latter may happen anyway, but only to a level where an individual player might get a portion of the proceeds of his/her likeness, but only much later. If they break away, player will be owed a salary. The P5 would not be able to sustain a minor League business model without the NCAA.

I'd love it if they did. It'd blow the whole system up. It'd be great, but it's not happening.

 

[huskyrob1]

What do you mean by, "get too greedy?" They are not taking money from networks against the networks' collective will. The networks have agreed to pay the conferences 10s of $millions per year. Antitrust indicates monopoly. Those schools are not preventing any other group of schools from playing football, putting together a conference, or keeping those conferences to attempt to get the best possible deal for distribution.

The only thing that would shake up the status quo from my seat is if the P5 broke away from the NCAA. I think it would destroy them. I think they think that too.

I don't think the government would get involved in this part of college athletics. Too many politicians from fly-over states know where their bread is buttered. Also if the Government did find that TicketMaster was a monopoly when they controlled 90% of the countries entertainment venues, they won't find against the P5 with roughly half the FBS programs.

Where on Earth did I say they're taking money from the networks???? They're receiving millions from the networks for broadcasting their games, and are greedy with respect to other schools trying to compete at the FBS level. Read my original reply to "freescooter" and it might make more sense to you. If it can be proven that a group of top tier P5 schools formed a new and exclusive conference and conspired to prevent other schools from enjoying $40 or $50 million dollars a year each in broadcasting rights by locking them out and thusly negatively effecting the locked out schools in athletics and also in academics, then they would be opening up themselves to violations of antitrust laws. They would be absolutely no different from Standard Oil, US Steel, International Harvester, Ma Bell, Amazon, all the big banks, or IBM in attempting to stifle competition. The government would find against this hypothetical top tier of schools if the monopoly was on recruits, the quality of facilities and the school in general, instead of Ticketmaster, all paid for by the billions they rake in each year, while the schools not in this top club suffer and can't compete.

 

[CL82]

Did you read the last page or so? They are not breaking away. The NCAA holds a certain basketball tournament worth $900M/year. They would not risk losing their piece of that pie, while completely revamping their business model, and having to pay their football players at the same time. The latter may happen anyway, but only to a level where an individual player might get a portion of the proceeds of his/her likeness, but only much later. If they break away, player will be owed a salary. The P5 would not be able to sustain a minor League business model without the NCAA.

I'd love it if they did. It'd blow the whole system up. It'd be great, but it's not happening.

If the media rights bubble has indeed burst, its main beneficiaries, the P5 schools, will look to replace that revenue. March Madness is the low hanging fruit.

 

[Husky25]

Where on Earth did I say they're taking money from the networks???? They're receiving millions from the networks for broadcasting they're games, and are greedy with respect to other schools trying to compete at the FBS level. Read my original reply to "freescooter" and it might make more sense to you. If it can be proven that a group of top tier P5 schools formed a new and exclusive conference and conspired to prevent other schools from enjoying $40 or $50 million dollars a year each in broadcasting rights by locking them out and thusly negatively effecting the locked out schools in athletics and also in academics, then they would be opening up themselves to violations of antitrust laws. They would be absolutely no different from Standard Oil, US Steel, International Harvester, Ma Bell, or IBM in attempting to stifle competition.

I can see how what you wrote in response to Scoot might make sense to you, but that hasn't happened and probably won't. The P5 conferences would have to completely split away. While a flimsy argument can be made that they practically have, they would have to give up their spot within the NCAA and all the protections and benefits (at the moment) that go with it.

That makes the bold a substantial bar to clear, particularly because the "haves" are made up of roughly half the FBS programs and conferences. Finally, most of the top teams are located in the south and fly over states, where the politicians wouldn't dare shake a boat that their constituents are so passionate about and that benefits them to boot.

I think the topic will turn out to be moot in the long run. I think the networks far overshot their media deals and there is bound to be some pull back. I am far more interested in how the pay scale for players will eventually be structured.

 

[Husky25]

If the media rights bubble has indeed burst, its main beneficiaries, the P% schools, will look to replace that revenue. March Madness is the low hanging fruit.

"Power 5" is a football related designation. They would have to replace it with football related revenue. If they split from the NCAA (which they won't) the first thing that happens is it that opens up the amateur question. If they have to play players a salary, they become pros and where is that money going to come from for that?

There is a wide-held misconception that Americans have insatiable appetite for football (and Sports in general). Some do, but in reality, Americans have less appetite for a sub-elite product. You don't have to look to hard for evidence of that (i.e. AAF, XFL V1.0, USFL, AFL, UFL, NFL Europe, MiLB, college baseball, MLS, AHL, college hockey etc.).

 

[CL82]

"Power 5" is a football related designation. They would have to replace it with football related revenue. If they split from the NCAA (which they won't) the first thing that happens is it that opens up the amateur question. If they have to play players a salary, they become pros and where is that money going to come from for that?

"Power 5" is a football derived designation of institutions. All of them play other sports as well, particularly MBB. If the P5 left the NCAA and set up their own March MBB tournament, it would be worth a big amount of money which they would use to fund their BB and Olympic sports much the NCAA does now. I don't see how it impacts the pay for play issue at all, except, perhaps that it provides another pool of funds to pay for it.