Achonwa on Nurse

[Carnac]

Kia played with a ton of poise from Day 1 and continued to against ND in April. Now she seems like a kid ready to make a sophomore leap in a big way. To think about what that could mean for UConn in 2015-16 in mind-boggling. We knew we were getting the three stars from the 2012 recruiting class back, and we knew a stellar recruiting class was coming in. We're thinking about how good Gabby could be, if Chong could improve just enough to be an extremely efficient shooter, if Ekmark could stay healthy and start shining, etc. we're anticipating Natalie Butler will be exactly the sort of player who UConn didn't have last season. And on top of that, Kia could become a star!

Only these UConn kids could have someone like me (who spent most of his life in warmer weather) be unable to wait for November. It's hard to fathom how good this team could be.

I thought Stewie was (consistently) the best player on the floor (during the entire tournament), with Moriah a close second. Kia however did have a great gold medal game. I rooted for her individually, and for team USA collectively. I respect Achonwa's opinion (which carries a lot of weight in Canada), even though you could say she is a little biased. I'm not mad at her. She's suppose to sing the praises of ALL her teammates. Kia had a great tournament, and I hope it carries over to the upcoming season.

If Nurse could average 18 points a game, and continue to play solid defense, what a boost that would be to the program, and the starting unit. Given her recent achievements, I don't think it's a reach to hope for those kind of numbers from her this season. The good thing about her now is she's going to come back with the maturity, experience and confidence of a sophomore, by having already put up 33 points in an Olympic type (level) game on a "world" stage, won a national championship and a gold medal. I'm going to go out on a limb and say she's having a pretty good summer so far, don't you think?

We keep hearing nothing but good things about Napheesa Collier from various sources. Everybody is not wrong. I'm starting to reach for that glass of kool-aide. I'm not predicting greatness for her just yet, but from all of the reports we're getting, and from what I 've seen of her during the summer games, she just might be one of the premier recruits UConn has ever had. I'm very glad she chose to become a Huskie. She had lots of other choices.
ALL of the other top ranked programs knew about her, and wanted her also.

I'm enjoying the summer, but like others, I can't wait for the season to begin, so that I can see what we've got. Geno's biggest dilemma early on, may be trying to get his bench players a decent amount of playing time.
Because many of our early preseason opponents should not present a serious challenge for 40 minutes, the reserves could get a fair amount of floor time, giving Geno and staff a chance to evaluate them against someone else other than their teammates and practice players. I particularly want to see what a completely healthy Courtney Ekmark looks like this year. This should be a very interesting season. About 75 more days to "First Night".
Go Huskies.

 

[hoophuskee]

In an article about the Pan Am championship game Natalie said that no one could keep up with Kia. Moriah could keep up with her, but she was so worn down it took a lot out of her. Being the only true point guard on the team didn't help. Also, they didn't have the right players to keep up with Kia. I'm not sure who did and didn't try out, but there were certainly guards who could have kept up with her. I guarantee you that Napheesa will keep up with Kia and then some. Having said that, Kia was spectacular and by far the best player on the floor. She was responsible for Canada winning the Pan Am championship.

Not this upcoming year- I don't think so.

 

[Alydar]

Seriously? Because I drew the exact opposite conclusion. In all the UCONN games last year Kia Nurse was the second fastest/quickest guard on UCONN which made her the 2nd quickest guard on the court except maybe Loyd of ND and Williams of USF.

Chong is both quicker and faster than Nurse. What she lacks is Nurse's size and strength.

 

[lne001]

Saniya Chong is not a top 20 guard, please try again?

Here are my actual words. Please reread them and try again yourself.

"and most guards on top 20 teams would beat her in a sprint (imo)

I notice that you changed my comparison to one of your own. The point is that Kia is not the first or second fastest guard on UConn. I'm not sure she could beat the walk-ons. I may give her the edge over Ekmark, however.

 

[Biff]

Chong is both quicker and faster than Nurse. What she lacks is Nurse's size and strength.

There is a difference between "quick" and "fast". But I'm not gonna worry about the subtleties. This from last October had Kia finishing this team wind sprint tied for second with Gabby. Chong appears to be 5th right behind Stewie.

Now that small sample is not a definitive statement on anything. But it at least should give some credence to the notion that Nurse ain't all that slow.

 

[MilfordHusky]

There is a difference between "quick" and "fast". But I'm not gonna worry about the subtleties. This from last October had Kia finishing this team wind sprint tied for second with Gabby. Chong appears to be 5th right behind Stewie.

Now that small sample is not a definitive statement on anything. But it at least should give some credence to the notion that Nurse ain't all that slow.

Unfortunately, that video also shows part of why KML is not getting much PT in Seattle. It also shows that Natalie had a lot to work on when she arrived at UConn. I hope she fares better this fall.

 

[CocoHusky]

Chong is both quicker and faster than Nurse. What she lacks is Nurse's size and strength.

Not based on the video posted below by Biff.

 

[connboy77]

Chong is both quicker and faster than Nurse. What she lacks is Nurse's size and strength.

and confidence!

 

[CocoHusky]

Here are my actual words. Please reread them and try again yourself.

"and most guards on top 20 teams would beat her in a sprint (imo)

I notice that you changed my comparison to one of your own. The point is that Kia is not the first or second fastest guard on UConn. I'm not sure she could beat the walk-ons. I may give her the edge over Ekmark, however.

Stay with me here and watch the video posted by Biff. As long as MoJeff has two good wheels this is a discussion about who is second fastest.
You are correct based on the video posted by Biff; Gabby maybe the second fastest guard on UCONN. The questions remains: Name two guards on top 20 teams that Kia can't would wup in a sprint? It should not be this hard if you think "MOST" of them could beat Kia in a sprint. Surely you jest, Kia could not beat the walkon? Are you talking about the UCONN walkons ? Where did your notion of a "slow" Kia come from?

 

[sarals24]

Yeah, I am confused about this whole thing as well. I'll say it again: playing alongside Moriah will make anyone look slow. But watch Kia against guards on other teams and she is just as quick if not quicker. She consistently beats her man to the basket and is able to stay with quick guards on defense. What more does everyone want???

 

[PhillyCoach]

Yeah, I am confused about this whole thing as well. I'll say it again: playing alongside Moriah will make anyone look slow. But watch Kia against guards on other teams and she is just as quick if not quicker. She consistently beats her man to the basket and is able to stay with quick guards on defense. What more does everyone want???

sarals24 - agree with your four points. IMHO the two quickest defenders were Mo & Kia. KML, Stewie & Tuck were certainly NOT quicker than Kia (I know they are not guards.) Kia reminds me of a hockey player (Wayne Gretzy) who was not quickest, but knew where to be before the puck got there. Kia has inborn instincts and outstanding anticipation. Her BB IQ and timing, plus the anticipation makes for a quick guard. A straight line race and/or suicide drills gives only a small indication of Game Speed! On the surface Chong is quicker, but not defensive quickness. (She is also 5 in. shorter and 20 pounds lighter.) Chong's timing and anticipation were lacking. In that vein, KML who in some drills and runs would be SLOOOW, was smart enough/anticipate enough to defend better than her base speed.
With her anticipation, (and I would take this skill first because it brings in IQ) Kia could stay with the stop & go, herky-jerky guard.
Final point - Kia wanted to be a "drive to the basket guard" just like MO (add it to her moves anyway.) Look at the film--she couldn't get there on many occasions and had quite a few charges and turnovers on that move. I believe she did not recognize the openings soon enough and did not quite get the angles, etc. to make that move CONSISTENTLY. The Pan AM final showed that she had learned that move and will be much more dangerous. Can you imagine MO and Kia hitting the 3 and then faking the shot and driving in for a lay-up. MO was the best in the nation last year because of her quickness, but the recognition (IQ) and the anticipation made it possible. Kia has the tools to be AA -game quick. You can have a footrace, I'll take the game & defensive quickness.

 

[msf22b]

Wonderful thread.
Agree with most everyone.
Points that I especially find prescient:

1. Kia is plenty fast, quick, whatever... enough.
2. Her attacking game is much improved and will result in more points and less charges.
3. Phessa ia also a force of nature and has finally appeared in living color on our radar screens, soon to open on the
UConn hardwood.

And oh, yes...there is a sharpshooting #1 pick lurking out there as well.
And a 6'5" center type with a year's experience and a year's local practice
And, and...

 

[VAMike23]

In this as in many other threads, a lot of folks are not being very precise when they use words like "quick", "fast", "fitness", "speed" etc. Obviously in casual conversation a lot of these terms can be easily conflated depending on the topic and there is no harm done.

However, the opposite is often true here on the BY.

Reasons being: (1) people are obviously very passionate about the team, the players and the game itself; and (2) many discussions go into great detail about this play or that, this video or that, specific match ups where we see players do this or that against each other, etc. Posters often (not always) get into arguments because they are talking past each other wrt the terms above.

Lateral quickness and even forward quickness (acceleration) are both different than raw sprinting speed. Players may possess some or all in various measure compared to other players.

Example: Maya is not at the top end for lateral quickness at her position. At all. She sometimes compensates by keeping an extremely wide base in her defensive stance. She has much better--but not elite--acceleration in her first step because her strides are very long and powerful. Where she is elite is in her speed once she has taken a step or two because her lower body is so incredibly strong and explosive. In her case, this also translates into elite leaping ability. Fitness for Maya has always been a strong point, and by this I mean the endurance necessary to play a ton of minutes on the floor while performing at a high level. However, even though Maya was always very fit, she still wanted to increase her quickness and agility to better compete at the pro level so she altered her diet and training before the 2013 WNBA season (IIRC), resulting in about a 10-12 lb weight loss and a more agile frame. For an already elite body, this was a big accomplishment. A simple argument about "fitness" would miss the point almost entirely because Maya was very fit both before and after the weight loss. This was a body change. KML will probably need to do something similar, in a way that works for her own body, to be more agile at the WNBA level. I think she'll make real changes but it will take a little while. She's got great hands and good footwork to go with natural scoring ability, so she will be fine in time. She'll get there.

When we talk about "fitness" vs lateral quickness, top-end speed, leaping ability, strength, forward acceleration, etc. blah blah blah, we have to keep in mind as we indulge in multi-page threads and dozens of posts, these things are actually very distinct attributes, even if athletic players like the ones UCONN is typically blessed with often possess many of them in abundance.

Just as another example, Morgan has *very* good lateral quickness and quick feet for a forward, so she can cover 3s and even shooting guards pretty well most of the time on the perimeter. Around the rim, her leaping ability is not great, so she rebounds through positioning, tenacity and a fair bit of strength. Kia has very good lateral quickness (IMO) as well, as does Gabby, who also possesses an other-worldly vertical leap as we all have seen. Gabby's speed traits are similar to Maya's -- she has longer strides with exceptional power but it takes her a split second longer to get moving when compared to a small explosive body like Moriah's. Mo possesses that rare combo of outstanding vertical leap/explosion, outstanding lateral quickness and lightning-fast forward acceleration in the first step, with very good sprinting speed. Once Gabby is in motion she has excellent top-end speed; I'd love to see her in a 60 m dash against Moriah. I'd give it to Mo in the first 30 m but I wonder if Gabby wouldn't catch up and go by her toward the end.

 

[Gus Mahler]

In this as in many other threads, a lot of folks are not being very precise when they use words like "quick", "fast", "fitness", "speed" etc. Obviously in casual conversation a lot of these terms can be easily conflated depending on the topic and there is no harm done.

However, the opposite is often true here on the BY.

Reasons being: (1) people are obviously very passionate about the team, the players and the game itself; and (2) many discussions go into great detail about this play or that, this video or that, specific match ups where we see players do this or that against each other, etc. Posters often (not always) get into arguments because they are talking past each other wrt the terms above.

Lateral quickness and even forward quickness (acceleration) are both different than raw sprinting speed. Players may possess some or all in various measure compared to other players.

Example: Maya is not at the top end for lateral quickness at her position. At all. She sometimes compensates by keeping an extremely wide base in her defensive stance. She has much better--but not elite--acceleration in her first step because her strides are very long and powerful. Where she is elite is in her speed once she has taken a step or two because her lower body is so incredibly strong and explosive. In her case, this also translates into elite leaping ability. Fitness for Maya has always been a strong point, and by this I mean the endurance necessary to play a ton of minutes on the floor while performing at a high level. However, even though Maya was always very fit, she still wanted to increase her quickness and agility to better compete at the pro level so she altered her diet and training before the 2013 WNBA season (IIRC), resulting in about a 10-12 lb weight loss and a more agile frame. For an already elite body, this was a big accomplishment. A simple argument about "fitness" would miss the point almost entirely because Maya was very fit both before and after the weight loss. This was a body change. KML will probably need to do something similar, in a way that works for her own body, to be more agile at the WNBA level. I think she'll make real changes but it will take a little while. She's got great hands and good footwork to go with natural scoring ability, so she will be fine in time. She'll get there.

When we talk about "fitness" vs lateral quickness, top-end speed, leaping ability, strength, forward acceleration, etc. blah blah blah, we have to keep in mind as we indulge in multi-page threads and dozens of posts, these things are actually very distinct attributes, even if athletic players like the ones UCONN is typically blessed with often possess many of them in abundance.

Just as another example, Morgan has *very* good lateral quickness and quick feet for a forward, so she can cover 3s and even shooting guards pretty well most of the time on the perimeter. Around the rim, her leaping ability is not great, so she rebounds through positioning, tenacity and a fair bit of strength. Kia has very good lateral quickness (IMO) as well, as does Gabby, who also possesses an other-worldly vertical leap as we all have seen. Gabby's speed traits are similar to Maya's -- she has longer strides with exceptional power but it takes her a split second longer to get moving when compared to a small explosive body like Moriah's. Mo possesses that rare combo of outstanding vertical leap/explosion, outstanding lateral quickness and lightning-fast forward acceleration in the first step, with very good sprinting speed. Once Gabby is in motion she has excellent top-end speed; I'd love to see her in a 60 m dash against Moriah. I'd give it to Mo in the first 30 m but I wonder if Gabby wouldn't catch up and go by her toward the end.

Excellent post!

 

[lne001]

When I judge relative speed amongst a large group of athletes there are 3 categories, not just 2. A small number are fast, a small number are slow, and the vast majority are in the middle. Kia is not slow, Kia is not fast, she is in the middle with most everyone else.

As far as the wind sprint, that may or may not be an indication of anything. It may mean she was fresher or more motivated. Perhaps Soniya was ill. You need a much larger sampling than one wind sprint, especially the first one of the year.

But, in the spirit of conciliation and unanimity for which this board strives, I hereby change my assessment of Kia to 'fast' and 'quick'.

 

[CocoHusky]

When I judge relative speed amongst a large group of athletes there are 3 categories, not just 2. A small number are fast, a small number are slow, and the vast majority are in the middle. Kia is not slow, Kia is not fast, she is in the middle with most everyone else.

As far as the wind sprint, that may or may not be an indication of anything. It may mean she was fresher or more motivated. Perhaps Soniya was ill. You need a much larger sampling than one wind sprint, especially the first one of the year.

But, in the spirit of conciliation and unanimity for which this board strives, I hereby change my assessment of Kia to 'fast' and 'quick'.

Very magnanimous of you. It has not been my experience that this board strives for unanimity, otherwise I would have been rejected long ago. I think defensible opinions is the board standard, which I personally find to be infinitely more fun.

 

[cbraarj]

Chong is both quicker and faster than Nurse. What she lacks is Nurse's size and strength.

Confidence

 

[DobbsRover2]

Nurse's strength, size, and smarts are definitely weapons that wear down opponents, and she certainly has enough speed and quickness to put defenders in a bad position where they end up fouling her a lot, and after early season troubles she was deadly at the line in the second half of the season. Plus, guards who are on her may be mindful of what can happen to your dentistry when you hit the floor with the Husky hockey player in a scramble for the ball, as per Tulsa's Ashley Hughes' front teeth. Guarding either of the UConn starting guards is not an assignment any player really wants, but I'd rather lose my shirt guarding MoJeff than my incisors battling with Kia.

Getting a little more stamina for her full sophomore season would definitely be a big boost for Kia. She had a bit of a lull in her freshman season in mid February, and her stats were down somewhat in the second half of the season. Although you can say she was solid in the Tourney and gave UConn just what it needed on defense and with her 8.8 ppg in the six games, especially with her 46% shooting on 3s with her 12-26 totals there, her stats were down in the NCAAs. She shot 41% overall, had only 4 assists (and only 1 in the last 4 games) versus 6 TOs, and pulled in 2.3 rpg. From a freshman that was serviceable enough, but I think anyone who saw her rack up 9 assists down at USF and a 1.77 A\TO rate during the season would not be totally happy with the Tourney numbers. If she can boost the Tourney stats big time this year, all of those "Is UConn's Dominance Bad for Women's Basketball" will be burning up the web again in early April.

 

[meyers7]

Saniya Chong is not a top 20 guard, please try again?

Well the premise was a guard on a top 20 team, not a top 20 guard.

Cuevas, Allen, Brown, Cole, maybe Durr, KMitchell, Johnson, Thompson, Cooper, Epps, TMitchell, plus some others I could think of, but not on Top 20 teams. However, while they may be quicker or faster, I wouldn't trade her for any of them.

 

[CocoHusky]

Well the premise was a guard on a top 20 team, not a top 20 guard.

Cuevas, Allen, Brown, Cole, maybe Durr, KMitchell, Johnson, Thompson, Cooper, Epps, TMitchell, plus some others I could think of, but not on Top 20 teams. However, while they may be quicker or faster, I wouldn't trade her for any of them.

I am assuming you mean Niya Johnson.
I don't see how anyone could say definitively that anyone on this list could definite beat Kia in a sprint. I would be willing to bet money-on Kia- in a 40 yard sprint against Brown, Niya Johnson, and Epps. I wouldn't trade Kia for any of them either; TMitchell I would have to think long and hard about?

 

[HoopsHoppy]

Kia is fast enough with quickness, anticipation, and lateral movement to be a joy to watch when she is on defense - not much gets by her and she plays well in the shifting, switching defense sets. Her offensive drives most recently have been much more under control, while still quick enough to burst through the primary defender, and she will - in my opinion - commit far fewer fouls (a significant number of her freshman fouls were offensive) while continuing to the the "and one" since - even in heavy traffic, she has a knack for making the shot.

 

[meyers7]

I am assuming you mean Niya Johnson.
I don't see how anyone could say definitively that anyone on this list could definite beat Kia in a sprint. I would be willing to bet money-on Kia- in a 40 yard sprint against Brown, Niya Johnson, and Epps. I wouldn't trade Kia for any of them either; TMitchell I would have to think long and hard about?

Well they wouldn't have to beat her in a sprint. It was quick or faster. (two different things). Either one.

I'd probably put my money the other way. But then you never know.

 

[VAMike23]

Well they wouldn't have to beat her in a sprint. It was quick or faster. (two different things). Either one.

I'd probably put my money the other way. But then you never know.

I remember that race (or 'race-off') between Gabe K. and RC. Everybody thought Conrad would win! As did I. Oops

 

[OldAlum]

Do you think Kia learned more about avoiding offensive fouls based on her play with Team Canada? Or did the different officiating style just allow her to not get called for it?

 

[meyers7]

I remember that race (or 'race-off') between Gabe K. and RC. Everybody thought Conrad would win! As did I. Oops

As did Conrad.

I remember yelling at the TV, "what are you doing Gabe? You can't beat Robert "Knock this battery off my shoulder" Conrad. "