ACC's strategy is puzzling

[UConnJim]

When I look back on ACC expansion over the years, I am puzzled by their strategy. The Big 1G, SEC, and Pac 12 has targeted flagship state universities and the ACC has targeted what? They have taken 3 private schools, two schools that are second fiddle in their own states, and an up and coming football school, VT. And, they have taken ND as a partial member. And, they lost one of their flagship state schools.

In hindsight, the ACC has had a shot at 3 flagship state universities in recent years, WVU, Rutgers, and UConn, and has passed on them at one time or another. The Big 1G and Big 12 saw the value in Rutgers and WVU, but not the ACC?

I have seen talk of an ACC network. I hate to break it to the ACC, but they own two states North Carolina and Virginia with a good presence in Florida and South Carolina. Pitt, BC, Syracuse, GT, and Louisville are not bringing entire states to the ACC. Unlike the SEC, Pac 12, Big 1G, and even the Big 12, there is not a huge captive market for an ACC channel.

What could have been? The ACC could have had Rutgers, WVU, and UConn, and maybe kept Maryland given the ACC would have been made up of more flagship state universities, which we now know have considerable media value. Clearly, the ACC did not understand what was happening in the long run with media rights/conference networks.

Don't get me wrong, the ACC is a much better option than the NNNBE for UConn, but the ACC could have been so much better.

 

[Rumrunner]

And that is why the ACC is doomed to fail. Of course, if Notre Dame goes all in, that would stabilize things.

Louisville does nothing to stem FSU's desire to leave.

It was also comical when the ACCSports guy used the total households in Kentucky. As bad as Kentucky is, they are the dominant school in the state.

Same with Pitt and Pennsylvania with PSU. BC (hopefully versus UConn in the Big 10).

Same with Miami versus Florida (and soon FSU)

And look at the ACC's footprint. Syracuse, Pitt and BC are geographic islands. How is that possibly a good thing? And these second tier programs are supposed to anchor the ACC north?

 

[Phoenixhusky]

If I were the Big I would add Uconn for this reason. Rutgers to the south of NY us to the north locks up that market. NY will not care about cuse. BC is the fourth team in that town.... This move would neutralize the Acc in the northeast.. I am just being optomistic.

 

[djct1999]

This is far from over......read McMurphy's article on ESPN. The silver lining is in this paragraph:

The addition of Louisville will not affect the ACC's new media rights deal. When the ACC added Notre Dame in all sports but football in September, sources told ESPN the ACC's media rights deal was expected to increase to about $18 million annually


Its hard to think that this makes FSU happy. They will bolt as soon as they get an invite.

 

[TexanMark]

This is far from over......read McMurphy's article on ESPN. The silver lining is in this paragraph:

The addition of Louisville will not affect the ACC's new media rights deal. When the ACC added Notre Dame in all sports but football in September, sources told ESPN the ACC's media rights deal was expected to increase to about $18 million annually


Its hard to think that this makes FSU happy. They will bolt as soon as they get an invite.

An ACC/ND Network is being planned by ESPN/Raycom. Unlike the Longhorn Network it won't fail. Most ACC schools are making $5-10M on Tier 3 rights...don't beleive what the Dude sez...they are not all going to ESPN. Our AD was quoted as saying we would make $24-26M per year under the first ACC contract. The ACC won't get B1G money but I think it is safe to say no one is leaving for the B12.

I still think UConn will be in the ACC...but you might have to wait a few months...yes I think something will happen soon.

 

[specialisthusky]

An ACC/ND Network is being planned by ESPN/Raycom. Unlike the Longhorn Network it won't fail. Most ACC schools are making $5-10M on Tier 3 rights...don't beleive what the Dude sez...they are not all going to ESPN. Our AD was quoted as saying we would make $24-26M per year under the first ACC contract. The ACC won't get B1G money but I think it is safe to say no one is leaving for the B12.

I still think UConn will be in the ACC...but you might have to wait a few months...yes I think something will happen soon.

I tend to believe Forbes over both you and the dude. Forbes reports you will not be making additional revenue from tier three rights.

 

[caw]

An ACC/ND Network is being planned by ESPN/Raycom. Unlike the Longhorn Network it won't fail. Most ACC schools are making $5-10M on Tier 3 rights...don't beleive what the Dude sez...they are not all going to ESPN. Our AD was quoted as saying we would make $24-26M per year under the first ACC contract. The ACC won't get B1G money but I think it is safe to say no one is leaving for the B12.

I still think UConn will be in the ACC...but you might have to wait a few months...yes I think something will happen soon.

I'd love to see that quote, do you have it anywhere?

I wouldn't bet on no one leaving for the B12, it all depends on how Maryland does with it's exit fee.

I honestly hope UConn ends up in the B1G, but would obviously take the ACC if there were no B1G option.

 

[UConnRock]

The ACC has reacted in absolute fear ever since the first raid failed to result in the dominant football conference that they had envisioned. Miami tanked, and FSU struggled. They tried to make Va Tech the dominant team, but UVA's ugly step sister whom the ACC didn't even want in the first place could never win the big game. Think about it, BC made it to two championship games, and Wake won the ACC title a few years back. UVA, Maryland and others were losing to FCS teams. That is not what Swofford promised the presidents and it was reflected in the ESPN contract that is nothing in comparison to PAC, B1G, B-12, or SEC.

The Pitt and Syracuse moves were another reaction based on fear. Swofford knew the ESPN contract and the ACC as an entity was in jeopardy if any of the other conferences came knocking. His solution was two more teams so the ACC had a cushion and could remain at 12 teams if a couple left. Pitt and Syracuse brought nothing to the table in terms of viewership of football gravitas. They were just "cushion" teams to soften the blow of departures.

The Louisville move was another reactionary move. Certainly not the best move financially, geographically, or academically, but Swofford is banking on the hopes that bowing to the football schools will keep them in the league.

The basic premise that lead to the Louisville selection over UConn is the following: The presidents were told that Louisville could go to the B-12 if not taken now. When they looked at options beyond L'ville, Cincy and UConn they crapped their drawers and took the one most likely to go elsewhere and not the one that best fit their long-established standards of academics and geography.

The huge gamble that Swofford is taking is that the B1G has no interest in UConn and that they would rather have teams from the ACC. The worst case for Swofford is that the B1G takes UVA and UConn. His gamble will have lost the ACC the northeast as BC and Syracuse would be media afterthoughts with B1G teams visiting Rutgers and UConn. If Swofford let Rutgers and UConn go the the B1G and the ACC ended up with Louisville and Cincy it would be a huge blemish on his legacy.

That being said the odds of UConn going to the B1G are quite slim and sadly, UConn's football and athletic future rely on the further demise of the ACC which could take years to come to being.

 

[CL82]

I agree that the ACC is in the damage control mode that we know so well in the Big East. They are certainly in a better position than we are, but they are on a slippery slope. ND was a desparate move as was Louisville. Still, I'd rather be there than here.

 

[Jericho]

The basic problem with the ACC is a limitation of options. The ACC is not taking teams from either the Big 10 or SEC. Those conferences have largely poached the Big 12. And geographically, the Big 12 does not fit with the ACC. So there only realistic options to expand are the Big East. And the Big East is not littered with flagship schools. In fact, the entire Northeast has very few. And the few that exist often have flaws (like UMass, URI, Maine, Delaware, etc...). So to some extent, the ACC is taking what they can get.

Now, you are right in that they did pass on both West Virginia and Rutgers. How smart that is/was remains to be seen. For the ACC, it appeared to be mainly related to Academics. Of course, the Big 10 and SEC also said no to West Virginia. So it's not like they were some magic prize. But Rutgers is more intersting due to the fact their state is more populated. I do wonder if some in the ACC always though that Rutgers would be there and then suddenly they were not.

But the ACC can still be strong as is. I disagree that they are limited to North Carolina and Virginia. Clemson and FSU both have passionate fan bases and create a following in SC and Florida. The extent of how much the ACC can claim of New York, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and New England is less certain. The good thing is that Syracuse and Louisville are passionate about their teams. Those are two of the top 3 schools in attendance for basketball. A network would carry some weight in those areas due to raw passion for the program. So it's not completely out of whack. Remember, the Big 10 added Nebraska and that's a tiny state population wise. But they actually care about the school. So passion counts for something.

 

[Jericho]

This is far from over......read McMurphy's article on ESPN. The silver lining is in this paragraph:

The addition of Louisville will not affect the ACC's new media rights deal. When the ACC added Notre Dame in all sports but football in September, sources told ESPN the ACC's media rights deal was expected to increase to about $18 million annually


Its hard to think that this makes FSU happy. They will bolt as soon as they get an invite.

I think you read that the wrong way. The dollars are not going down. Which means that even with Maryland leaving, the conference is not getting de-valued. Which means everything is more or less where it was before Maryland left. And back then, the general wisdom was that everything was pretty stable.

There was not a realistic outcome of ESPN paying more for Louisville than Maryland. But it was at least possible they'd pay less.

 

[TexanMark]

I'd love to see that quote, do you have it anywhere?

I wouldn't bet on no one leaving for the B12, it all depends on how Maryland does with it's exit fee.

I honestly hope UConn ends up in the B1G, but would obviously take the ACC if there were no B1G option.

Start here for now
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=570788
ACC hasn't given all Tier 3 rights to ESPN

The ACC Network has been talked about over on the Cuse board. Read any post from arbitragegls as he is the insider source

 

[Rumrunner]

I don't want the ACC.

Assuming the reports are correct, and that there was a southern faction that didn't want the ACC to get too northern, last time I looked there were 10 southern schools and three northern.

Now it's 11-3. And those three up north, BC, Cuse and Pitt are vulnerable to be frozen out on their little island.

If Big 10 gets UConn, BC is isolated. Same with Syracuse.

Rutgers, UConn, PSU, Maryland. Four flagship schools in footprint states.

The ACC is disintegrating, and mark these words, the SEC NEEDS two schools. Heck, they haven't even made permanent schedules yet. When the SEC looks to expand, it will be to nortg carolina, virginia and maybe fsu from florida.

 

[UConnJim]

The basic problem with the ACC is a limitation of options. The ACC is not taking teams from either the Big 10 or SEC. Those conferences have largely poached the Big 12. And geographically, the Big 12 does not fit with the ACC. So there only realistic options to expand are the Big East. And the Big East is not littered with flagship schools. In fact, the entire Northeast has very few. And the few that exist often have flaws (like UMass, URI, Maine, Delaware, etc...). So to some extent, the ACC is taking what they can get.

Now, you are right in that they did pass on both West Virginia and Rutgers. How smart that is/was remains to be seen. For the ACC, it appeared to be mainly related to Academics. Of course, the Big 10 and SEC also said no to West Virginia. So it's not like they were some magic prize. But Rutgers is more intersting due to the fact their state is more populated. I do wonder if some in the ACC always though that Rutgers would be there and then suddenly they were not.

But the ACC can still be strong as is. I disagree that they are limited to North Carolina and Virginia. Clemson and FSU both have passionate fan bases and create a following in SC and Florida. The extent of how much the ACC can claim of New York, Pennsylvania, Georgia, and New England is less certain. The good thing is that Syracuse and Louisville are passionate about their teams. Those are two of the top 3 schools in attendance for basketball. A network would carry some weight in those areas due to raw passion for the program. So it's not completely out of whack. Remember, the Big 10 added Nebraska and that's a tiny state population wise. But they actually care about the school. So passion counts for something.

I agree with you on most points. Still, the ACC took Pitt and Syracuse last time around instead of WVU, Rutgers or UConn. Did Pitt and Cuse have other options? Think about this for a second. Are people in Kentucky going to pay $3 per month for the SEC network and $3 per month for an ACC network? Are people in NY are going to pay for YES, SNY, BTN, MSG, and an ACC network? In Massachusetts, people pay for NESN and ComcastSportsNet. They will not pay for an ACC network.

 

[Dann]

the acc is stocking up on schools that dont have the markets or winning to compete in a big 3 power league down the road. cuse and pitt were good examples of that. passing on wvu/ruty/uconn back then told u so. now they add lville who would never get a big 3 invite, they know that lville will always be in the acc so they are the perfect choice right away for perception and false stability. they will add cincy soon. then army and navy for fball and a couple bball schools for bball. then u will see them talk about memphis and temple. if the florida schools go usf. the acc is going to be a mess but become the old big east in a sense that they will mish mash stuff to try to claim they are the power league #4. the mwc will pass them quick on the field when they get all 16-18 teams on board together.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Like many, I am so disgusted by the ACC now I am not sure if UConn should ever accept an invite to that conference. I hope with Herbst’s push to get UConn membership in the AAU and UConn’s strengths academically and athletically, UConn does get a BIG invite within the next year. That assumes that BIG does not target the more than 1 of the following additions – UVA (most likely, especially if V-Tech bolts), UNC (may not be able to move due to NC politics & NCAA issues), G-Tech (not geographically connected to BIG & may open the door for a SEC fight), Texas (keep dreaming), Kansas (too small of a market & GOR issue with XII), and ND (ND’s current relationship with the BIG is about as good as UConn’s with BC).
My hope for the ACC…
· ND – Is not happy because their largest ND alumni base is in metro NYC and the loss of Rutgers & the failure to bring in UConn locks them out to a degree unless ‘Cuse plays them every year at the Meadowlands (Football) and MSG (Basketball)
· NCAA – Due to violations, the NCAA hammers UNC (unlikely) and Miami (likely) neutering two key football programs for several years
· Louisville – Strong bolts for a SEC coaching job as expected, their football program sinks back to mediocrity as seen before and after Petrino
· Maryland – With support from the BIG and MD politicians, wiggles its way down from the $50 million exit fee to the $10 to $20 million range, resulting in….
o BIG – UVA does not want to rub academic elbows with Louisville and gets tired of the power that Florida State & co. throws around, bolts to the BIG with UConn, effectively locking the ACC out of the DC & NYC markets and isolating BC
o SEC – V-Tech and NC State bolt as the SEC knows they will never get Texas and NC and VA are the next biggest southern markets that the SEC is not in yet after TX
o XII – Florida State, Clemson and maybe Louisville all run out the door
o Big E – Loss of 5+ schools makes ACC desperate, Temple, USF & Cincinnati are added, ACC extends invite to G-Town & St John’s as non-football schools to try to regain entry to DC & NYC, rejected as neither wants to repeat of the Big E, the ‘catholic’ schools instead split and form a non-football, basketball oriented conference spanning from Providence to Milwaukee
o BC – Isolated (300 miles to ‘Cuse, 700 miles to Duke), playing second fiddle among Catholic schools to ND, and relegated to another version of Boston U, good academics, great hockey, nothing else worth talking about; but, hey, they are still the Hub of the Universe in their mind

 

[Adios]

ESPN poll about which school was the best immediate fit.

http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=sportsnation&pollId=3353941

Most of New England, Massachusetts included, thought UConn was the best fit. Maryland thought Louisville was a better fit by 1%. New York by 11%. NJ by 16%. I think this addition was fueled by public perception, which can only be justified by the fact that Louisville has won more BE championships since joining the BE. Whatever the deal, am not worried. We're still amongst those next in line to go somewhere. We have to stay together and keep pushing for the school to get better. If we give up, that's when we'll slide.

 

[DoctorBombay]

the acc is stocking up on schools that dont have the markets or winning to compete in a big 3 power league down the road. cuse and pitt were good examples of that. passing on wvu/ruty/uconn back then told u so. now they add lville who would never get a big 3 invite, they know that lville will always be in the acc so they are the perfect choice right away for perception and false stability. they will add cincy soon. then army and navy for fball and a couple bball schools for bball. then u will see them talk about memphis and temple. if the florida schools go usf. the acc is going to be a mess but become the old big east in a sense that they will mish mash stuff to try to claim they are the power league #4. the mwc will pass them quick on the field when they get all 16-18 teams on board together.

Calm down, dude.
Theres a 12 year contract on the table w/ ESPN that pays a heckuva lotta money to the ACC.
Eventually, the reconfigured ACC may not look like it does today, but the typical fan reaction of putting down a conference that passes on you is kinda tired.
This roller-coaster ride isn't over, but whatever the outcome the ACC is unlikely to disappear, defections or not.
BTW- anyone paying attention knows that UConn will likely land on its feet.

 

[Adios]

Calm down, dude.
Theres a 12 year contract on the table w/ ESPN that pays a heckuva lotta money to the ACC.
Eventually, the reconfigured ACC may not look like it does today, but the typical fan reaction of putting down a conference that passes on you is kinda tired.
This roller-coaster ride isn't over, but whatever the outcome, the ACC is unlikely to disappear, defections or not.
BTW- anyone paying attention knows that UConn will likely land on its feet.

Dude, help us out with your Syracuse brethren. Tell them we belong with you. You know we should be with you in the same conference, at least. You're an intelligible person.

 

[huskymedic]

ESPN poll about which school was the best immediate fit.

http://espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=sportsnation&pollId=3353941

Most of New England, Massachusetts included, thought UConn was the best fit. Maryland thought Louisville was a better fit by 1%. New York by 11%. NJ by 16%. I think this addition was fueled by public perception, which can only be justified by the fact that Louisville has won more BE championships since joining the BE. Whatever the deal, am not worried. We're still amongst those next in line to go somewhere. We have to stay together and keep pushing for the school to get better. If we give up, that's when we'll slide.

Wow...

What the Vermont - damn tree huggers!

 

[tzznandrew]

Dude, help us out with your Syracuse brethren. Tell them we belong with you. You know we should be with you in the same conference, at least. You're an intelligible person.

 

[caw]

Start here for now
http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=570788
ACC hasn't given all Tier 3 rights to ESPN

The ACC Network has been talked about over on the Cuse board. Read any post from arbitragegls as he is the insider source

Thanks, interesting read. BTW I really just wanted to see the quote, wasn't really doubting you. I should have made that clearer.

 

[Adios]

Can't stand Ferrell.

 

[TexanMark]

Dude, help us out with your Syracuse brethren. Tell them we belong with you. You know we should be with you in the same conference, at least. You're an intelligible person.

I hope the ACC realizes that adding UConn tips NYC to the ACC or they will rue the day.

 

[uc1974]

Spoke to my son this am. He knew yesterday am what the result was going to be in all of this, unlike me who was totally fooled. Apparently Louisville, and to a lesser extent Cincinnati, put together sales packages and very aggressively worked the ACC members hard and sold them, despite UL's very obvious academic deficits. UConn sat tight and did nothing. Personally, I'm the type of person who can't be sold by glossy BS but most of the rest of society isn't like that and the ACC guys are in that group. I guess that's why political candidates spend ridiculous amounts of money on TV commercials that are nothing but half-truths and innuendo. This board may dislike Duke for any number of reasons but Duke has always been pro-Uconn and voted for us and, even at the end, voted against UL. At least they were consistent with the now discredited academic values of the ACC. As much as I resist casting blame, it is apparent that UConn management failed to properly market us and assumed that logic would prevail in an illogical situation and in an illogical world. There may be an out for us in all of this or some grand plan that I'm not aware of but it's unlikely. If we're not out of the BE by the end of the 2013-2014 season (we get a bye next year because of Michigan) expect season ticket sales in the 10,000 range and crowds of 20,000 at the Rent. Karmanos killed my hockey interest years ago and this may do it for me for college sports. Will I continue to contribute to UConn, sure, but it is unlikely that I'll be at the Rent to watch Tulane or ECU. No more FB season tickets--just can't get interested enough to freeze and watch UConn-SMU in November, especially at my age. Good luck to UL--they worked hard for the invite and they got it. I'll always check the scores and want the Huskies to win but there won't be much enthusiasm. Sad.