ACC looking into starting their own network too | The Boneyard

ACC looking into starting their own network too

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UConnSportsGuy

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Shouldn't be ground breaking news, as most people saw this coming. Although it doesn't seem like anything that will be happening anytime soon as ESPN doesn't seem to thrilled with the idea (why spend all that money up front on starting up an ACC channel when the most desirable parts of the conference will most likely be part of the B1G and SEC channels in a few years anyway).

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...t-the-acc-is-considering-a-network-of-its-own
 
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Shouldn't be ground breaking news, as most people saw this coming. Although it doesn't seem like anything that will be happening anytime soon as ESPN doesn't seem to thrilled with the idea (why spend all that money up front on starting up an ACC channel when the most desirable parts of the conference will most likely be part of the B1G and SEC channels in a few years anyway).

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...t-the-acc-is-considering-a-network-of-its-own

I would agree that its not too shocking. It seems that the ACC is hoping to piggyback off of the SEC Network as ESPN is already committed to that and it may be able to save on infrastructure costs. Although football does drive the bus in college sports, these types of networks are largely driven by basketball content. That should at least help the ACC some.

A bigger question is what sports rights can be placed on the network? I don't know the specifics of the ESPN/Raycom deal. My basic understanding is that anything not picked up by either ESPN or Raycom would generally flow through to the schools. So that means at least some content (mainly Olympic sports, although I've heard that women's basketball is treated a bit different). But you need more than that. So you need all 3 parties on board for some sort of split.

Seems possible, but not certain. still, may help them put a leg up on the Big 12 (which is definitely not doing a network)
 

Fishy

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The biggest problem they're going to have is what the article states - ESPN owns them lock, stock and barrel.

There doesn't seem to be much need for ESPN to invest more money in something they already own outright. They'll show the content they want and the content that probably has some commercial appeal on one of their networks.

The idea that they're going to take the remainder, (which ESPN also owns), and create some sort of channel with it is probably a non-starter. The southern cable companies are already aware that they're going to have to pony up for the SEC channel soon - and the mid-atlantic for the Big Ten Channel.

The ACC botched this when they signed away the store for every last dollar. Further, adding Pittsburgh and Louisville added two markets that won't be interested in any ACC network.
 
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The biggest problem they're going to have is what the article states - ESPN owns them lock, stock and barrel.

There doesn't seem to be much need for ESPN to invest more money in something they already own outright. They'll show the content they want and the content that probably has some commercial appeal on one of their networks.

The idea that they're going to take the remainder, (which ESPN also owns), and create some sort of channel with it is probably a non-starter. The southern cable companies are already aware that they're going to have to pony up for the SEC channel soon - and the mid-atlantic for the Big Ten Channel.

The ACC botched this when they signed away the store for every last dollar. Further, adding Pittsburgh and Louisville added two markets that won't be interested in any ACC network.

In fairness, Louisville will be able to sell any pay channel that carries LV product. It's just not a big market.
 

zls44

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The Louisville cable companies will be pissed enough about needing to pick up the SEC Network.
 
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I was clicking through the channels this weekend and came across the Clemson - BC women running up and down the Clemson basketball court. I will assume they were playing basketball only because they were throwing an orange ball around. It hardly ever went in the hoop and seldom went from one teammate to another. The arena was cavernous, but I do think one of the girls grandmother was there as one of the 20 or 30 spectators watching whatever the hell these gals were doing.

Should make for spellbinding content..............
 
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I was clicking through the channels this weekend and came across the Clemson - BC women running up and down the Clemson basketball court. I will assume they were playing basketball only because they were throwing an orange ball around. It hardly ever went in the hoop and seldom went from one teammate to another. The arena was cavernous, but I do think one of the girls grandmother was there as one of the 20 or 30 spectators watching whatever the hell these gals were doing.

Should make for spellbinding content..............

In fairness, those are 2 of the worst teams in the league. Clemson has had 3 players transfer out _mid-season_.
 
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The ACC is finally realizing that conference cable networks are the right strategy for college sports in the future. The ACC might have pulled this off if they had expanded with flagship state universities like Rutgers and Connecticut instead of adding mostly private schools (BC, Syracuse, Miami) and second fiddle universities in their own state (Pitt and Louisville). Plus, they lost one of their biggest flagship state universities, Maryland.

The ACC owns 2 states, North Carolina and Virginia, has a good position in Florida, a secondary position in South Carolina, a small presence in Georgia, a couple of city schools in Pitt and Louisville, a school in a city that doesn't care much about them, BC, and a private school in upstate NY that claims to be NYC's college team. It will be very hard for an ACC channel to get paid top dollar in many whole states which makes the channel relatively unattractive. I honestly think ESPN is the best outlet for the ACC's content.

The ACC did not see the future and when both the Big 10 and SEC have cable networks up and running, the ACC will have a severe revenue gap and schools will leave the ACC.
 

SubbaBub

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Biting the hand that feeds and keeps them whole? How again did this gang of clowns best the Big East? Don' t tell me. I know. Something about a small city in Rhode Island. :mad:
 

RS9999X

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You can be sure Swofford's son @ raycom is helping to drive this. Raycom is dead without the ACC Network.

It's why UCONN needs to think bigger with either SNY or another






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The biggest problem they're going to have is what the article states - ESPN owns them lock, stock and barrel.

There doesn't seem to be much need for ESPN to invest more money in something they already own outright. They'll show the content they want and the content that probably has some commercial appeal on one of their networks.

The idea that they're going to take the remainder, (which ESPN also owns), and create some sort of channel with it is probably a non-starter. The southern cable companies are already aware that they're going to have to pony up for the SEC channel soon - and the mid-atlantic for the Big Ten Channel.

The ACC botched this when they signed away the store for every last dollar. Further, adding Pittsburgh and Louisville added two markets that won't be interested in any ACC network.


Actually that's not really a problem at all. The SEC has been setting up a Network with ESPN for a while now. The SEC sold their Tier 1 and 2 rights, but let the schools keep the Tier 3 stuff. And the schools all sold them to various third parties. Now that the SEC network is coming into being, ESPN has been forced to buy out the third tier rights that the schools sold to have inventory for the network. That's a lot of work and added costs for ESPN. Once ESPN buys out all the Tier 3 stuff, it will put the SEC in the same basic position as the ACC, with ESPN owning the Tier 3 rights. The easy part with the ACC is that ESPN does not have to do all that legwork. They already have the inventory.

The bigger question is if the ACC (or really ESPN) can really make money off this. My understanding of the SEC network is that ESPN owns it outright (as compared to the Big 10, which is part owned by the conference). So ESPN essentially fronts the costs and the SEC provides the content. Part of the theory behind and ACC network appears to be that ESPN can minimize costs by using the SEC Network infrastructure to also produce an ACC Network. There will certainly be added costs, but maybe not huge added costs. There is also likely contractual language limiting what ESPN can and cannot do with the ACC's rights. And as big as ESPN is, it certainly does not have enough slots to show all the ACC content. You essentially bundle off the rest and sell it. The question is, what money can you make and is it enough to turn profit? That will depend on carriage rates and total households carrying the channel compared to operating costs. That's the big unknown.

Also note, that ESPN will front a lot of the costs and risks, which opens the question as to how much the ACC would really make off this if it did happen.
 

Fishy

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The current SEC Network is not going to be the SEC Network.

The current network is owned by ESPN3, but that will expire - the SEC will be renegotiating their deals in the near future. ESPN and the SEC will likely be partners in the new network with ESPN/CBS shelling out the cash and the SEC retaining a percentage of ownership.

The ACC on the other hand, has nothing to sell. ESPN already owns their media rights down to the last volleyball game - the ACC can't form a network or become a partner or do anything else as they have already given their leverage away until the mid-2020's.

There's a reason ESPN would be "lukewarm" on the idea - they would have to invest more money in the least valuable content and then try to force feed it to cable stations in markets where they would be competing against their own products. There's no upside there - it's just a vanity play for the ACC.

The idea is a pure dog.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Actually, the ACC has a ton of leverage. Schools could just choose to leave.

I would not be surprised if ESPN stepped up big to try and save the ACC. Letting the Big East go has turned into a massive debacle for ESPN. The best market (Rutgers) and best football schools (WVU and TCU) are now on Fox, as will be all the basketball schools. ESPN will pay almost as much for Notre Dame basketball, Louisville, Pitt and Syracuse (about $110MM/year when you include the extra ESPN upped the ACC deal by) as it could have gotten the entire Big East for, and Fox got the best content from the fiasco. I imagine someone at ESPN will get fired over this.

I actually think Swofford is in better shape than most of us care to think. If Fox starts to pick apart the ACC, ESPN is in serious, serious trouble. I think ESPN would kick in an extra $100MM per year to keep it together, which it will probably run through the ACC Network so it won't look like ESPN completely caved at the negotiating table, although that is exactly what will happen.

UConn is toast. The game is over, and there are 5 leagues. ESPN has no choice but to save the ACC. This means that the ACC will never add another school. Game. Set. Match.
 
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Game is not over till the big 12 expands. Things are looking grim at the moment however. Not going to the mattresses with UL over that acc slot was a huge mistake. If you don't think it mattered why did WVU fight like hell publicly UL tried to block them. We monitored then they tried to cover their tracks and say they tried behind the scenes. Oh well, mid major sports ain't all bad I guess if that is what it comes to.
 
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I
The current SEC Network is not going to be the SEC Network.

The current network is owned by ESPN3, but that will expire - the SEC will be renegotiating their deals in the near future. ESPN and the SEC will likely be partners in the new network with ESPN/CBS shelling out the cash and the SEC retaining a percentage of ownership.

The ACC on the other hand, has nothing to sell. ESPN already owns their media rights down to the last volleyball game - the ACC can't form a network or become a partner or do anything else as they have already given their leverage away until the mid-2020's.

There's a reason ESPN would be "lukewarm" on the idea - they would have to invest more money in the least valuable content and then try to force feed it to cable stations in markets where they would be competing against their own products. There's no upside there - it's just a vanity play for the ACC.

The idea is a pure dog.

I'm not sure CBS even gets involved. CBS has the Tier 1 content, but Tier 1 content typically does not end up on conference networks (probably for exposure reasons as much as anything). The Big 10 is really the model people are trying to follow (since the Pac-12 Network is not nearly as lucrative). The Big Ten lumps Tiers 2 and 3 rights together in one bundled package. And since the Big 10 schools all own this themselves, they don't have to share with anyone. The conference controls everything. That said, the actual Big 10 Network is split roughly evenly between the Big 10 and Fox. You might ask why Fox owns roughly half when they have no rights to any of the content? I don't know the inner workings of their deal, but likely because they put up substantial money and aided on the technical side of things. That gives them half the equity (for now).

The SEC is not nearly in the same position as the Big 10. ESPN already owns all the Tier 2 content. And while the schools do control their own Tier 3 rights, all of them have sold them off in individual deals. To get a network similar to the Big 10, someone needs to buy out all the existing Tier 3 deals. That costs money. So someone, either ESPN or the SEC, has to buy back all these rights. If ESPN does it, then ESPN would own all the SEC Tier 2 and 3 rights, just like they already do with the ACC. If the SEC does it, then they have something of value to contribute to the network, but they'd have to spend a lot of money to do so. Meaning they are already losing money before the network launches. There's an argument to be made that the sum is greater the individual parts. So the SEC (or ESPN) could make more money collectively from the SEC network than it would cost to buy out the individual deals. But still, the math does not really seem to work as there are costs to establish and run a network. How is either side going to make more money off the same rights they already have sold/own?

A big portion to that answer is likely the fact that ESPN has way more content than they can air. Sure, they can stick stuff on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, etc... But there are a finite amount of slots. Instead of sticking stuff on the ESPN3/the web ot simply not airing it at all, they can bundle it all together in a separate package, i.e. a new network. ESPN believes they can bundle together all this SEC material and make more money off carriage fees without diluting their existing networks. It would be a net gain. Whether they are right remains to be seen. Nothing has launched yet, so we don't know the ultimate result. The Longhorn Network has been a case study of how it has not worked. At least not yet. So there is risk. And whether the SEC has any equity in this Network is also uncertain (I would think they would eventually want to "buy in" if they did not, but as an example I don't believe Texas has any equity in the Longhorn Network).

Having established the SEC model, the question is if the ACC model would work. The basic facts and set-up would be the same. However, the ACC has at least one major disadvantage. Which is that the ACC content is seen as inferior to the SEC. So do people really want it? How much can they get in carriage fees? This ties into the next issue. The SEC is littered with flagship universities with passionate fan bases. People would likely want to subscribe. The ACC has some of that, but not to the same level. So it circles back to if enough people will want it. Can ESPN sell enough subscriptions at a high enough carriage rate to make it financially worthwhile? The best arguments that they can are as follows: (1) a large population footprint for the ACC; (2) ESPN costs are likely greatly reduced due to crossover/shared costs with the SEC Network; and (3) basketball is way more important in conference networks than many people give it credit for and the ACC is good at basketball (including having 4 of the most dedicated fan bases around - Syracuse, Louisville, Duke, and UNC). Again, whether this actually is a financially viable idea remains to be seen. But it's not as far-fetched as some want to believe.

Which brings me to my last thought. Since this is a UConn message board, how does this affect UConn? Unlike Nelson, I believe this could have a positive effect on Connecticut. People talk about markets in expansion, but markets really only matter to networks. Unless you're selling a network, no one cares that a school is located near a big city. When people talk about the kind of money the Big 12, ACC, Big East or Mountain West can get, they don't care about markets. What they really care about are ratings. How many people actually watch? Sure, the more people you have near a school does not hurt. But unless they actually tune in, it does not do much good. A network can effectively force all the people to "tune in" by charging them a monthly fee for carriage of the network. Whether people watch or not, a network makes money off a household that has cable. Without a network, the only way to make money is by showing people want to watch the content. Due to geography, UConn is significantly more valuable to a conference with a network than one without. If the ACC launches something, all of a sudden expansion seems more viable (but hardly definitive).
 
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Actually, the ACC has a ton of leverage. Schools could just choose to leave.

I would not be surprised if ESPN stepped up big to try and save the ACC. Letting the Big East go has turned into a massive debacle for ESPN. The best market (Rutgers) and best football schools (WVU and TCU) are now on Fox, as will be all the basketball schools. ESPN will pay almost as much for Notre Dame basketball, Louisville, Pitt and Syracuse (about $110MM/year when you include the extra ESPN upped the ACC deal by) as it could have gotten the entire Big East for, and Fox got the best content from the fiasco. I imagine someone at ESPN will get fired over this.

I actually think Swofford is in better shape than most of us care to think. If Fox starts to pick apart the ACC, ESPN is in serious, serious trouble. I think ESPN would kick in an extra $100MM per year to keep it together, which it will probably run through the ACC Network so it won't look like ESPN completely caved at the negotiating table, although that is exactly what will happen.

UConn is toast. The game is over, and there are 5 leagues. ESPN has no choice but to save the ACC. This means that the ACC will never add another school. Game. Set. Match.

Your analysis is absolutely certainly something that could happen. But wow, do you take yourself too seriously by going from what could happen to "game, set, match." My guess is no one stopped doing anything today because you posted that.

But maybe they all went pens down and I just don't know it yet.
 
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Of course ACC is looking to start its own network. I mean, why not? They got to do everything they can to protect against the next raid. B1G and SEC will start their expansion soon enough for their new networks. It will affect the ACC in a bad way. The only way to save the ACC is if ESPN step in and pony up huge $$$$$$ to the ACC to make them on par with B1G and SEC. That won't happen because it won't make that much business sense to ESPN. ACC is now the old BE. Their days are numbered.
 

UCFBfan

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Game is not over till the big 12 expands.
This.

There's not a shot that the Big 12 stays at 10. Who they take is anyone's guess but it wont stay at 10. UConn is not done by any measure. They might get into a watered down ACC that will basically be the old BE plus Duke and some others. I'll take that any day over our current situation

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When it comes to cable households, Connecticut stacks up well relative to the Big 10 markets:

Illinois: 2.8 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.4 million per school
Indiana: 1.36 million HHs, 2 schools = 0.68 million per school
Iowa: 0.63 million HHs = 0.63 million per school
Maryland: 1.56 million HHs = 1.56 million per school
Michigan: 2.4 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.2 million per school
Minnesota: 1.14 million HHs = 1.14 million per school
Nebraska: 0.43 million HHs = 0.43 million per school
New Jersey: 2.68 million HHs = 2.68 million per school
Ohio: 3.0 million HHs = 3.0 million per school
Pennsylvania: 3.5 million HHs = 3.5 million per school
Wisconsin: 1.2 million HHs = 1.2 million per school

Big 10 average = 1.5 million HHs per school
Big 10 median = 1.2 million HHs per school

Connecticut = 1.15 million HHs

West Virginia = 0.43 million HHs
Kansas = 0.7 million HHs
Oklahoma = 0.7 million HHs
Missouri = 1.11 million HHs
Virginia = 1.9 million HHs
North Carolina = 2.1 million HHs

If UConn can help bring NYC, then it is even more attractive.
 

CL82

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When it comes to cable households, Connecticut stacks up well relative to the Big 10 markets:

Illinois: 2.8 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.4 million per school
Indiana: 1.36 million HHs, 2 schools = 0.68 million per school
Iowa: 0.63 million HHs = 0.63 million per school
Maryland: 1.56 million HHs = 1.56 million per school
Michigan: 2.4 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.2 million per school
Minnesota: 1.14 million HHs = 1.14 million per school
Nebraska: 0.43 million HHs = 0.43 million per school
New Jersey: 2.68 million HHs = 2.68 million per school
Ohio: 3.0 million HHs = 3.0 million per school
Pennsylvania: 3.5 million HHs = 3.5 million per school
Wisconsin: 1.2 million HHs = 1.2 million per school

Big 10 average = 1.5 million HHs per school
Big 10 median = 1.2 million HHs per school

Connecticut = 1.15 million HHs

West Virginia = 0.43 million HHs
Kansas = 0.7 million HHs
Oklahoma = 0.7 million HHs
Missouri = 1.11 million HHs
Virginia = 1.9 million HHs
North Carolina = 2.1 million HHs

If UConn can help bring NYC, then it is even more attractive.
No allocation of households in Ohio to Cinci?
 
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When it comes to cable households, Connecticut stacks up well relative to the Big 10 markets:

Illinois: 2.8 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.4 million per school
Indiana: 1.36 million HHs, 2 schools = 0.68 million per school
Iowa: 0.63 million HHs = 0.63 million per school
Maryland: 1.56 million HHs = 1.56 million per school
Michigan: 2.4 million HHs, 2 schools = 1.2 million per school
Minnesota: 1.14 million HHs = 1.14 million per school
Nebraska: 0.43 million HHs = 0.43 million per school
New Jersey: 2.68 million HHs = 2.68 million per school
Ohio: 3.0 million HHs = 3.0 million per school
Pennsylvania: 3.5 million HHs = 3.5 million per school
Wisconsin: 1.2 million HHs = 1.2 million per school

Big 10 average = 1.5 million HHs per school
Big 10 median = 1.2 million HHs per school

Connecticut = 1.15 million HHs

West Virginia = 0.43 million HHs
Kansas = 0.7 million HHs
Oklahoma = 0.7 million HHs
Missouri = 1.11 million HHs
Virginia = 1.9 million HHs
North Carolina = 2.1 million HHs

If UConn can help bring NYC, then it is even more attractive.

Your numbers aren't what you say they are. The State of Illinois has far, far, far more households than the state of New Jersey. You need to go back to your source and figure out what you are really being told. (If I had to guess, you may have numbers from the TV market that is applicable to the physical location of the University's campus. Which is pretty close to totally irrelevant if they are the whole state's team.).
 
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Your numbers aren't what you say they are. The State of Illinois has far, far, far more households than the state of New Jersey. You need to go back to your source and figure out what you are really being told. (If I had to guess, you may have numbers from the TV market that is applicable to the physical location of the University's campus. Which is pretty close to totally irrelevant if they are the whole state's team.).

BL - Illinois has more households than NJ, but cable penetration in NJ is 84% and cable penetration in Illinois is 59%. If I had to guess, my quoted numbers do not include satellite subscribers and there are probably more satellite subs in Illinois than in NJ, which would mean more pay HHs in Illinois than NJ. What complicates the matter further is Direct TV does not carry BTN on its basic package.
 
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Your numbers aren't what you say they are.

The number of households in each state:

IL = 4.8
IN = 2.5
IA = 1.2
MD = 2.2
MI = 3.8
MN = 2.1
NE = 0.7
NJ = 3.2
OH = 4.6
PA = 5.0
WI = 2.3

CT = 1.4

WV = 0.8
KS = 1.1
OK = 1.5
MO = 2.4
VA = 3.1
NC = 3.8

Though I'm not sure how useful state numbers are, when markets are more relevant.

And while mkts provide some info on potential audience, it ignores quality and market penetration. I live in Boston, but am more likely to watch Oregon than BC.
 
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BL - Illinois has more households than NJ, but cable penetration in NJ is 84% and cable penetration in Illinois is 59%. If I had to guess, my quoted numbers do not include satellite subscribers and there are probably more satellite subs in Illinois than in NJ, which would mean more pay HHs in Illinois than NJ. What complicates the matter further is Direct TV does not carry BTN on its basic package.

I must be totally divorced from reality, because I can't comprehend that over forty per cent of households in Illinois don't have cable. If that is what it is.
 
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I must be totally divorced from reality, because I can't comprehend that over forty per cent of households in Illinois don't have cable. If that is what it is.

Nationally, only 60% of the pop has wired cable TV.
But another 30% have an "alternate delivery system", which I presume refers to satellite/phone company/etc. I would guess that rural areas were not worth the investment by cable companies, so there's more dish activity there.
 
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