ACC Big East merger

[Jetskies]

do we want to be in an ACC that has lost UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, and Clemson?
replace those with Memphis, USF... Delaware? JMU? and us --- surely this would begin the breakdown of the conference as VT, Louisville, NCST, Pitt, Syracuse, look for their lifeline too, just to not be associated with those schools i just mentioned.

Just feels like PAC-12 part 2, and then we'd be stuck in it.

 

[CL82]

As DeFillippo said and as you quoted: "We always keep our television partners close to us,’’ he said. "You don’t get extra money for basketball. It’s 85 percent football money. TV - ESPN - is the one who told us what to do."
However, the football spin didn't come until later, after Pitt was swapped in, here was Swofford's statement on the move

Lol, it's literally in the same quote from the same article. It's disingenuous to take part of the quote as being valid and then discount the rest because it "it doesn't support (your) opinion.

The material that you quoted from the globe actually points out that Connecticut was an ACC target for expansion.

The second target was Connecticut, which was part of the Northeast footprint the ACC wanted, and was coming off the daily double of a BCS bid in football and a championship in men's basketball (the third for Jim Calhoun).

In addition, the women's basketball program under Geno Auriemma had established itself as the most dominant in the sport over the past 15 years.

Famously, Boston College blackballed Connecticut even though it was the ACC target along with Syracuse saying "We didn't want them in" he said. "It was a matter of turf. We wanted to be the New England team."

At that point, ESPN could have said "Connecticut is the team we want for expansion along with Syracuse." They did not. That is exactly the point.

At the time the DeFillippo quote was published in the Globe it raised considerable uproar because it exposed ESPN as the manipulator of college conference realignment. They caught a considerable amount of blowback because of it. The quote from DeFilippo and ESPN attempting, unsuccessfully by the way, to walk that back came a little over a week later, as part of damage control. (I note that you conveniently omit the timing of those quotes from your post above.)

Again, the material that you posted shows, unequivocally, that ESPN was the motivating behind the ACC's raid of the big east. It expressly states that "ESPN told (the ACC) what to do". At that point in time, and for every single ACC expansion, ESPN could have indicated that it preferred the university of Connecticut be one of the expansion targets. It did not. That is exactly the point.

 

[billybud]

“The driving force on realignment lies with the conference and universities,” Soltys said. “Every college deal has conference composition clauses that lead to a value discussion whenever a conference adds or subtracts teams. We will be having similar discussions with the SEC and Big 12, too. Perhaps the Big East, too, depending on timing.”

ESPN has a clause in every conference contract "deal" that allows the negotiation of "value" up or down with any conference additions or subtraction. And value in a conference ESPN Media "deal" is an ESPN construct...(conferences may value academics, proximity, culture, etc while ESPN values their bottom line).

 

[Ha Who]

We’re going somewhere. The issue is what our next stop will look like and when it will happen. Hopefully, we’ll be an addition rather than a replacement. That would be ideal.

OK, Chuck

 

[CL82]

do we want to be in an ACC that has lost UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, and Clemson?

Tell me what their media rights deal is at that time and I will tell you my answer.

 

[freescooter]

do we want to be in an ACC that has lost UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, and Clemson?
replace those with Memphis, USF... Delaware? JMU? and us --- surely this would begin the breakdown of the conference as VT, Louisville, NCST, Pitt, Syracuse, look for their lifeline too, just to not be associated with those schools i just mentioned.

Just feels like PAC-12 part 2, and then we'd be stuck in it.

People keep saying this but where do Clemson and FSU go? Where does Duke go for that matter? There is some speculation that UNC and maybe Virginia would be picked up by the BIG 10. But would they really? The Big has been pretty strategic after the Rutgers debacle. The SEC doesn’t need either Clemson or FSU. And reportedly neither Florida nor South Carolina want those adds. And what we saw with the FSU lawsuit was that had they won they’d be the dog who caught the car. Now what? The SEC was pretty clear it had no interest. It was reported they approached the B12. Even less in Clemson. Maybe that changes. Maybe not.

 

[Kolumbo]

do we want to be in an ACC that has lost UNC, Duke, UVA, FSU, and Clemson?
replace those with Memphis, USF... Delaware? JMU? and us --- surely this would begin the breakdown of the conference as VT, Louisville, NCST, Pitt, Syracuse, look for their lifeline too, just to not be associated with those schools i just mentioned.

Just feels like PAC-12 part 2, and then we'd be stuck in it.

Yes. And I think that is about our best hope. The ACC without those 5 programs and perhaps without Miami is still a very good conference. At that point there are likely no other places for anyone to go. 12 ACC programs plus UConn, USF, Memphis, and then maybe a few from Tulane, Temple, ECU, JMU. OSU and Wazzu were dropped but the ACC would still be better than the PAC.

I think Stanford is one of the more surprising drops. It checks every box in a big way, especially for the B1G. Academics, great AD, San Francisco.

 

[Hamms30]

People keep saying this but where do Clemson and FSU go? Where does Duke go for that matter? There is some speculation that UNC and maybe Virginia would be picked up by the BIG 10. But would they really? The Big has been pretty strategic after the Rutgers debacle. The SEC doesn’t need either Clemson or FSU. And reportedly neither Florida nor South Carolina want those adds. And what we saw with the FSU lawsuit was that had they won they’d be the dog who caught the car. Now what? The SEC was pretty clear it had no interest. It was reported they approached the B12. Even less in Clemson. Maybe that changes. Maybe not.

That's what I don't get. What is the added value of adding Duke, UNC or Virginia to your conference? They're football doesn't bring any additional value. They haven't/don't and won't win anything in football. It's just diluting membership payouts for legacy conference members. Oh, they're basketball powerhouses and that could bring a lot of added value to the conference? Well, how about the school with 6 national championships on the men's side in 25 years and 11 on the women's in 30, would that not bring value? Oh... that team is a non-starter because their football team wouldn't bring any value and basketball has no bearing? Makes total sense ¯\(ツ)/¯

Are we not trying to squeeze blood out of a football stone at this point? If the SEC says to ESPN.. we're gonna extend offers to Clemson and FSU so we need more money, at what point does ESPN and ABC say.. well, we pay them 37M now and you want us to pay them 50M? How do we get an extra $26M of value out of them joining the SEC to offset our incremental costs especially now that the value of the ACC would be torpedoed and ROI on the ACC conference could now be negative?

 

[freescooter]

Yes. And I think that is about our best hope. The ACC without those 5 programs and perhaps without Miami is still a very good conference. At that point there are likely no other places for anyone to go. 12 ACC programs plus UConn, USF, Memphis, and then maybe a few from Tulane, Temple, ECU, JMU. OSU and Wazzu were dropped but the ACC would still be better than the PAC.

I think Stanford is one of the more surprising drops. It checks every box in a big way, especially for the B1G. Academics, great AD, San Francisco.

I agree with this. And Stanford and Cal are Duke and UNC. One highly respected private the other a highly respected public. The Big was picking up programs in their neighborhood and skipped right over them. It is a different era and respected academics mean nothing in the brave new world of college sports. Heck Stanford even has a pretty respectable football history.

That is another reason why I take the UNC/Duke to the Big10 stuff with a grin of salt. And I’m not sure the Big is really dying to get into the South anyway. There’s long history with the PAC programs. Not so much with the ACC.

 

[Jetskies]

People keep saying this but where do Clemson and FSU go? Where does Duke go for that matter? There is some speculation that UNC and maybe Virginia would be picked up by the BIG 10. But would they really? The Big has been pretty strategic after the Rutgers debacle. The SEC doesn’t need either Clemson or FSU. And reportedly neither Florida nor South Carolina want those adds. And what we saw with the FSU lawsuit was that had they won they’d be the dog who caught the car. Now what? The SEC was pretty clear it had no interest. It was reported they approached the B12. Even less in Clemson. Maybe that changes. Maybe not.

this makes sense.

for my education, could you elaborate on the rutgers "debacle"? what happened there that makes it a debacle? idk anything about their BIG history except theyre pretty mediocre at football (no surprise there) and certainly not a better overall school than UConn IMO, even with their AAU status and NYC proximity.

I use them all the time as a case study of what UConn would have looked like in an alternate universe, had things gone our way back in 2012/2013 conference alignment wave. We probably would have been better, by virtue of basketball alone. I doubt our football would have been any worse than them.

 

[Rufus]

Debacle implies the B1G regrets adding Rutgers. I've seen no evidence of that.

 

[freescooter]

this makes sense.

for my education, could you elaborate on the rutgers "debacle"? what happened there that makes it a debacle? idk anything about their BIG history except theyre pretty mediocre at football (no surprise there) and certainly not a better overall school than UConn IMO, even with their AAU status and NYC proximity.

I use them all the time as a case study of what UConn would have looked like in an alternate universe, had things gone our way back in 2012/2013 conference alignment wave. We probably would have been better, by virtue of basketball alone. I doubt our football would have been any worse than them.

They brought in a program that was really bad and hasn’t really improved. They were brought in to bring the NY metro area cable and now cable is ancient history. You could also say something similar about Maryland except they were and are mediocre, not awful. Maybe debacle is the wrong term but it was and is clearly a mismatch for both sides.

 

[ZooCougar]

That's what I don't get. What is the added value of adding Duke, UNC or Virginia to your conference? They're football doesn't bring any additional value. They haven't/don't and won't win anything in football. It's just diluting membership payouts for legacy conference members. Oh, they're basketball powerhouses and that could bring a lot of added value to the conference? Well, how about the school with 6 national championships on the men's side in 25 years and 11 on the women's in 30, would that not bring value? Oh... that team is a non-starter because their football team wouldn't bring any value and basketball has no bearing? Makes total sense ¯\(ツ)/¯

Are we not trying to squeeze blood out of a football stone at this point? If the SEC says to ESPN.. we're gonna extend offers to Clemson and FSU so we need more money, at what point does ESPN and ABC say.. well, we pay them 37M now and you want us to pay them 50M? How do we get an extra $26M of value out of them joining the SEC to offset our incremental costs especially now that the value of the ACC would be torpedoed and ROI on the ACC conference could now be negative?

Imagine being this guy and thinking Duke and UNC have no value.

If they don’t have any value then we have big problems.

 

[CL82]

Debacle implies the B1G regrets adding Rutgers. I've seen no evidence of that.

Fans do but not the school presidents.

 

[Rufus]

Fans do but not the school presidents.

That is very true.

 

[CL82]

Imagine being this guy and thinking Duke and UNC have no value.

If they don’t have any value then we have big problems.

We do have big problems.

(FWIW, I'm not confident that either of the P2 would be interested in Duke. UNC, however, is a different story.)

 

[freescooter]

We do have big problems.

(FWIW, I'm not confident that either of the P2 would be interested in Duke. UNC, however, is a different story.)

They are Cal and Stanford. Top academic institutions. Top basketball, better than Cal and Stanford but if top basketball is the measuring stick, UConn and Kansas might be better bets. Football, though? I a suppose if you are desperate to get into North Carolina you’d look at UNC. But they are hardly a football media darling. 45 years since the last ACC championship. But maybe. But seriously, why would you take Duke? Another mouth that brings nothing in the sport you care most about. You know when Duke last won an ACC football title? 1989. Since the league broke into divisions you know how many divisional titles they’ve won? 1. 12 years ago. And just for fun, while they get lots of basketball press, they last won it all a decade ago. They are on the verge of becoming Indiana.

 

[The CDR-Ret]

They are Cal and Stanford. Top academic institutions. Top basketball, better than Cal and Stanford but if top basketball is the measuring stick, UConn and Kansas might be better bets. Football, though? I a suppose if you are desperate to get into North Carolina you’d look at UNC. But they are hardly a football media darling. 45 years since the last ACC championship. But maybe. But seriously, why would you take Duke? Another mouth that brings nothing in the sport you care most about. You know when Duke last won an ACC football title? 1989. Since the league broke into divisions you know how many divisional titles they’ve won? 1. 12 years ago. And just for fun, while they get lots of basketball press, they last won it all a decade ago. They are on the verge of becoming Indiana.

Bill Belichick (@ UNC) has not gotten to any big jump in performance this year, but dropped half of the roster for adds from the portal, but he has always been a "second half" kind of coach.

We may see some life in the second half of the schedule for UNC football, as opposed to 2nd half of each game....

I am still holding out hope for the ACC offer for ALL UConn sports, NOT a football (18th team in ACC) only thing for any of the conferences.

Go Huskies!!!

 

[upstater]

Bill Belichick (@ UNC) has not gotten to any big jump in performance this year, but dropped half of the roster for adds from the portal, but he has always been a "second half" kind of coach.

We may see some life in the second half of the schedule for UNC football, as opposed to 2nd half of each game....

I am still holding out hope for the ACC offer for ALL UConn sports, NOT a football (18th team in ACC) only thing for any of the conferences.

Go Huskies!!!

I read yesterday that they have more than 40+ commits from high school next year. They are basically bringing in a new team each year. It will take at least 3 more years to develop these young players, and Belichick will be 76 at that point. I highly doubt UNC is going to wait around this long for this to happen. If you're not a top school in the P4, you better have patience.

Look at Indiana. Do what they did. 3 or 4 years ago, they were horrible.

 

[RuffRuff]

I read yesterday that they have more than 40+ commits from high school next year. They are basically bringing in a new team each year. It will take at least 3 more years to develop these young players, and Belichick will be 76 at that point. I highly doubt UNC is going to wait around this long for this to happen. If you're not a top school in the P4, you better have patience.

Look at Indiana. Do what they did. 3 or 4 years ago, they were horrible.

Indiana is a clear case of how critical and difference making coaching is in CBB.

After this media blitz he's going through, I'm honestly not sure Beli even makes it through another. It's not just that he's losing big, it's how he's handling it. It has been a 3 ringed circus down in Chapel Hill.

Unless he's on the verge of going senile, the tilt in legacy of the Patriots Dynasty continues to move further and further in the direction of Brady being the real difference maker across those 20 years. Beli looks more and more like a rigid warlord full of ego, nepotism and self interest.

 

[upstater]

Indiana is a clear case of how critical and difference making coaching is in CBB.

After this media blitz he's going through, I'm honestly not sure Beli even makes it through another. It's not just that he's losing big, it's how he's handling it. It has been a 3 ringed circus down in Chapel Hill.

Unless he's on the verge of going senile, the tilt in legacy of the Patriots Dynasty continues to move further and further in the direction of Brady being the real difference maker across those 20 years. Beli looks more and more like a rigid warlord full of ego, nepotism and self interest.

The 3-ring circus is more a product of media clickbaiting.

I saw the controversy with BANNING OF TWEETS about Drake Maye earlier this week, but when I looked at the UNC football page, there were tweets about Drake Maye, and then of course more tweets on Monday about Drake Maye's Sunday night.

Unlike professional teams, college employees are usually not tweeting into the wee hours of a Sunday night.

It was such an absurd accusation, and a former UNC football player who had just as good a day, Javonte Williams, had been entirely ignored by the UNC football staffer as well.

But all over the media you read stories about Belichick and his ban.

This is the world we live in. Unsourced clickbait is taken as gospel.

 

[Vowelguy]

That's what I don't get. What is the added value of adding Duke, UNC or Virginia to your conference?

NC is the largest state that neither the SEC or B1G own.
Also one of the strongest growers in the country.

I still maintain that the B1G needs to get into some growing southern markets to ensure long-term viability.

 

[Kolumbo]

The B1G does need to go south but the California and Northwest annex goes a long way to diversifying its portfolio

Largest states not in the P2

New York
North Carolina
Virginia
Arizona
Massachusetts
Colorado
Connecticut
Utah
Nevada
Kansas
New Mexico
Idaho
West Virginia

 

[uconnbill]

The only two that have a big fan base are, of course, UConn and Syracuse. Syracuse isn't going anywhere and UConn would make a perfect partner for the Big 12